Iraq: was there ever a time before this…
…when a nation withdrew from a remarkable victory, and its press and the party in power acted as though it were a defeat?
Don’t think so.
Well, with the enemy’s knowledge that Obama has no commitment to returning if the going gets rough, they may snatch victory (theirs) from the jaws of defeat (theirs) yet.
Obama and his ilk are so convinced that America is always the bad guy that they never look at what is really happening. I am sure that readers of the Sanity Squad blogs have a far greater understanding of the dynamics of the Islamic world than many of Obama’s advisors.
Iraq was a huge boil that we lanced. Our military stayed around and tried to contain the infection, and after much sacrifice, got the patient out of intensive care. We have brought oxygen to a part of the world that has needed to breathe freely, and we have let AQ expose its own toxicity. What happens now is not known, but the worst thing we can do is pretend it was all a mistake. We don’t have to beat our chests, but we do have to acknowledge what we did and stand by the people as they get their bearings. This war was always a gamble, although I didn’t notice any other promising alternatives, and believe me, I looked. Our soldiers gave their best and ultimately succeeded. We owe them an honorable conclusion. There are an awful lot of smug people in the media and academia who are unworthy of their sacrifice.
Thinking about the media and Dem and left reaction to the Iraq Victory: I am heartsick. When we live in fantasy, when we are blind to truth, how much longer can we survive?
Well the gift that Obama gets by default is that it just so happens that the Iraqi government is asking the U.S. to leave.
Some other thoughts on Iraq are: Iraq and Afghanistan were the same war — something Obama still fails to understand. Iraq was in our future — we were morally if not politically obligated to clean up the mess the west helped to create. Nothing would have change with Iraq and global terrorism as a whole without fulfilling the promise of The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (United States Congressional statement of policy calling for regime change in Iraq). It was already in Iraq’s future that people were slated to die — that’s the effect of fascism because that is the fact and promise of fascism. It was a rare and noble occurrence that an international force removed a fascist regime that had violated, multiple times, actions that forfeit sovereignty and demand international action, those four things are; repeated aggression against ones neighbors, genocide of one’s own people, violating the ban on arm illegal arms treaty, and harboring international terrorist. It was rare and noble that an international force remained in the heat of utter nihilism to secure and maintain a ring of security that undoubtedly saved the lives of thousands, if not millions, the absence of such a force would have ensued with not just a mega-Rwanda of ethnic slaughter by civilians and militants, it would have ensued the invasion of others to protect proxies — from Turkey, from Iran, and from Saudi Arabia, and after all this exponential death and destruction who would have been asked to clean up the mess? Who would have suffered more in treasure and of the lives of our precious military personnel? Who would have been demonized by the right and the left, who would have left a real legacy for future wars and terrorism and hatred by both the moderates and the extremist of the world for allowing this to happen? America.
We can forever be proud that we stood on the right side of the Islamic Civil War, period.
We kind of did that the last time around, didn’t we? Although it wasn’t a total failure. It ended up making the Annan family, et al, very rich.
Snatching defeat from the arms of victory is what the left does here… another inversion. the taliban has a few years to get back, and if not them alma will.
I glanced at the comments. Good grief.
Here is the very first one: “Yep, another American victory , just like the one we had in Vietnam.”
Another: “If you have to keep debating if you’ve won or not, then you probably didn’t win.”
Very depressing. I think these people have become invested in American failure.
On the QandO blog (mostly center-right, right, libertarian) there was a professor of international relations who consistently took the position even after the surge worked that Iraq was an utter fiasco.
During the Basra fighting in March 2008, the prof argued that it was clear Iran was really running Iraq. The discussion became surreal, but there was no way to debate him.
The fiasco of the Iraq War was simply an article of faith and filtered everything he perceived into “seeing the glass 5% empty.”
We can forever be proud that we stood on the right side of the Islamic Civil War, period.
Well said, Nyomythus. The entire post, well said.
Its absolutely ridiculously INSANE for the USA or indeed any Western Country to be on ANY side in Islam they BOTH want the destruction of Western Civilization the only difference is that after that has been accomplished they are going to fight each other for global dominance. Only a complete Islamic ignoramus would say we should support ANY Islamic faction at all.
Pragmatist,
Did you see the hot protest babes in Iran?
I think we need to compromise on this issue.
Hot Persian babes in American mini-skirts = WIN.
MikeLL I totally agree about the good looking Iranian women but that is all the more reason to get them out of the totalitarian CULT that is Islam either the Sunni or Shia version and out of those black bags they make them wear too. This alters not a jot what I said before anyone who thinks they can support any part of Islam is a total idiot and bragging about choosing the ‘RIGHT side is naive gullible insanity. Its like asking who do you like best the Devil or Satan.
MikeLL
Persian babes are worth fighting for, no doubt!
😀
“when a nation withdrew from a remarkable victory, and its press and the party in power acted as though it were a defeat?”
It’s happened before Neo. Vietnam, when the military won the war but lost the peace to a Democrat controlled Congress that cut all support to the South Vietnamese government. A few years after that the North invaded and President Ford was helpless to aid the South in it’s defence. You can credit much of the same liberals in the Government today such Kennedy, Biden, et al. They never learn or accept
Pragmatist
This alters not a jot what I said before anyone who thinks they can support any part of Islam is a total idiot and bragging about choosing the ‘RIGHT side is naive gullible insanity. Its like asking who do you like best the Devil or Satan.
Not true. I’ll let others explain why — though it should be obvious.
nyomythus so very pleased to see you confirm that you do not have an answer and your gullible naivety continues unabated.
Islam is a trheat to Western Civilization no matter which ‘side’ you think there is at the bottom they all follow the same Koran which states Islam will and must rule the earth. Now you can put your head in the sand and pretend it isn’t so but unfortunately the ‘actual unalterable word of God’ that Mohammedans beieve the Koran is makes you look a fool and a blind gullible fool at that.
Vietnam? Only this time it will be harder to convince anyone who was not a believer in the first place that it was a defeat in Iraq.
Pragmatist so pleased to see that you’re shaking in your booting hoping that I can’t confirm a well reasoned rebuttal.
Are you saying that all people living in predominately Islamic cultures are the same? Did you know that there are secular, liberal peoples living in the larger societies who, for whatever reason, manage to separate the magisterium of religion and secular authorities, who value secularism over their religious duties (I see it as a conflict of interest but it doesn’t matter what I think on this point) because it doesn’t matter because as long as people value secularism particularly in democratic models then you have a society which by and large tolerates diversity, respects secular law, etc… These people exist in the predominately Islamic societies and the FAILURE that we incurred after defeating the Saddam/Baathist regime in Iraq was that we did not make this distinction, many of the average citizen are our allies, the Kurdish people are certainly our allies, Iranian reform-minded people are certainly our allies. And if there are those that are not — it is critical that we get them on our side because we cannot fight global Islamic theocratic fascism alone.
Certainly not all the peoples under Nazi German’s occupied landed were all the same… I mean … wtf??
How can you voice criticism and know nothing of what you’re talking about? It’s good to repeat the obvious as I’ve done here, but don’t think for a second that it’s being done to validate a disputable point — the fact hat we have allies in predominately Islamic societies is self-evident.
‘nyomythus’ as usual your head is so far up your backside that you cant see the wood for the trees. We are not talking about individual Muslims many of whom I know extremely well I am even married to one and have lived many years in Mohammedan countries. What we are talking about is ISLAM the CULT . Now you may think you are being oh so clever and multi culti but you have proved you know absolutely NOTHING about Islam yet feel free to pontificate in your moral equivalent ‘libtard’ way about it. YOU ‘nyothymus’ are the PROBLEM and certainly not the solution and the reason the USA is in the state it is now. Now be a good boy and READ the Koran and the Sahih aHadith then come back and talk with the big boys. Your response contained nothing but vacuous waffle which does even attempt to rebut the FACT that I told you about the Koran which is the core of Islam.
which does even attempt to rebut the FACT that I told you about the Koran which is the core of Islam.
The FACT, and I mean THE FACT is the Koran is the core of Islam — if that’s the point you wish to make, and it isn’t, then yes I do agree, happy to see we share some common ground. It’s about the lamest shift of the goal post I’ve ever witnessed, but it’s your game. Yes, I would agree 100%! The Koran is the core of Islam.
We have friends worth defending in predominately Islamic societies.
pwned
pragmatist, you are making the same point over and over, but not supporting it. You say that all Islam is dangerous because they believe the Koran, and we should therefore give no encouragement to any of them.
First, even it were true that all Muslims were ultimately unfixable as long as they hung to a few shreds of their belief, it would still be true that the faith isn’t going away soon, and it might be uh, pragmatic, to at least deal with the least bad group we can find.
Second, making the claim that there are elements of Islam which are ultimately incompatible with Western society does not prove that Islamic believers or nations are unable to interact with us in a safe way. At most, it would be mild evidence for that point, if that incompatibility could indeed be demonstrated.
I get it that there are very bad things in Islam, right there in the blackletter text. That doesn’t prove your point. And shouting that we’re blind and just don’t see the obvious is unlikely to be persuasive with me.
At its core Islam is a supremacist ideology. As long as that is true, Islam will always be potentially dangerous to those of us in the non-Muslim sphere, which Islam pointedly describes as the “House of War.”
However, Muslims are human beings, not Star Trek computers which explode in a shower of sparks if they are inconsistent. Like most human beings Muslims mostly want a quiet life to do their work and raise their families. It takes a lot of effort to keep Muslims excited about jihad and hating the US and Israel.
To the extent that the West keeps a strong military and quashes Muslim hopes for the grand jihad, we can work with them, as indeed we have for centuries.
In our age it’s a matter of getting through the next twenty-five years when Muslims have so much oil and a big youth bulge. After that changes, it’s going to be a very different dynamic.
Who shifted any goalposts you fool I have been totally consistent in what I have said all along it is you who have tried to be slippery ‘nyomythus’ and now you are claiming victory because you finally agree with me. Islam the CULT is what is dangerous and the moderates are the misunderstanders of Islam not the Terrorists so as long as the CULT survives with its Arab Supremacism intact, and it MUST because the Koran is the ‘actual unalterable word of God’ so there is no room for compromise.
Just because some Mohammedans are not fanatics does not mean the CULT itself is not fanatical. You can see what happens when Mohammedans gain control look at the Dhimmi Bumiputera Laws in Malaysia where there are only 60 % Muslims look at Saudi where you cannot even bring a Bible in to the country. How many Mosques are there in Rome quite a few how many Churches in Mecca not one. Now you can argue that there are no Christians there to go to church and you would be correct. But then ask why because they have been driven out thats why there also used to be a lot of Jews but the ones Mohammad did not kill are long gone of course. So you can keep all your multi culti moral equivalence moonbat PC sentiments because they are what is killing the West.
Oh, only a Christian in a predominately Islamic society can be considered a moderate, as in, someone worthy of us finding common ground with to fight the extremist… hah!? This isn’t worth the dignity of a reply. So I’m done.
I see your good friends the ‘Moderates’ have been in action again today in Indonesia ‘nyoyhymus’ don’t you ever feel shame when you get things so wrong. Or is being a deluded ‘libtard’ mean you never have to say sorry. By the way please step up your English comprehension skills you misrepresent what I say then attack the ‘strawman’ you have thus created . What a laugh you are that does not show much intellectual capacity on your part.