Shrinkwrapped with a warning on the spread of ODS.
Comments
Worth reading — 22 Comments
Interesting. After watching Obama last night I am more convinced than ever that he does not know how to do anything other than campaign. Personally I see him as somewhat of a political “idiot savant”.
One other observation. As I was watching the comments of the pundits on Fox News after Gov Jindal’s speech they all talked about the delivery – that it was not good. Oddly enough I found it to be positive without being rah, rah. I actually thought it struck just the right tone in both message and delivery. The odd part is that it somewhat reflects the dichotomy of the liberal description of George Bush and Barack Obama. When Bush was hesitant and trying to gather his thoughts he was deemed an idiot and a buffoon. When Obama did the same thing he was called measured and thoughtful.
The Democrats undid welfare reform without public notice or discussion. If we wish to avoid the ODS label, how should we describe this act? They lied blatantly in calling their unprecedented pork fest a “stimulus” package. How to describe it without being guilty of the ODS label? Obama laid out a plan which seeks to nationalize health care. These are incredibly ambitious plans.
I don’t think anyone is smart enough to make socialism work. If anyone is, he certainly hasn’t shown that he is.
To me, the primary symptom of BDS was/is the blind and vile hatred exuded by those with the disease.
While I do see signs of such on the right and therefore might call it beginning stages of ODS, I have yet to see the slathering spews of venom in blog posts, or the posters and signs we used to see at the anti-Bush demonstrations. Maybe I’m just not frequenting the right blogs, but it certainly (that is ODS) doesn’t appear as widespread as BDS is/was.
“ODS, the Term”, is coming from the left. It is a preemptive strike. It has been thrown out there in case it is needed as a defense later on.
Brooks is about right. These are smart people, used to being smarter than those around them. Therefore, they think they are smart enough to accomplish all this.
If, as he and I believe, no one is smart enough to do these top-down marvels, even acting in concert, when things begin not to work it could get ugly. Confident people tend to double down, and to blame others for screwing up their wonderful plans. Those others then become more vulnerable.
I tend to the belief that Obama is smart and thinks he’s smart enough, but is way out of his depth and already starting to wing it. He doesn’t know that yet, still focused on the grand plan. It is the details he is winging, relying on the conventional wisdom of his tribe rather than thinking through. The size and importance of those details will grow.
I don’t see much evidence of ODS, especially compared to the vile loathing of Bush expressed by the left in recent years. But then my blog-reading is limited. I have been highly critical of Obama, and especially of the pretentious way in which he and his supporters have presented themselves, but I don’t hate him. I see him as an intelligent man, limited by his background, coping with problems he only dimly comprehends. He is the product of academia and the activist community, which are both informed by theoretical constructs and an adversarial mindset that have little application to the real world of national politics. In short, he’s learning on the job and the learning curve is steep. I wish him well, but little he has done so far inspires in me much confidence.
If it’s ODS to assert that Obama is acting like Canute-without-a-clue; that the Incredible Shrinking Sunshine Policy is evidence of functional duplicity, no matter what the excuse were he to deign to offer one; that he’s neither FDR nor Lincoln… then I guess I’ve got it.
D.B. Light and physicsguy may not have seen too many signs of ODS, but I have. It’s not just Obama: I look at the comments on right-of-center blogs (including this one) and I don’t even recognize the people with whom, as a national-security Democrat, I disagree. Shrinkwrapped’s post came as a, well, as a breath of fresh air.
greeneyeshade, begging your pardon… would you mind unpacking that phrase just a bit? What does “I don’t even recognize the people with whom, as a national-security Democrat, I disagree” mean? I can think of at least three interpretations and I’d rather not guess.
“If the Right derides Obama as a fool or convinces itself he is an evil genius, they will make themselves look foolish or venal. The wisest course is to criticize his policies and respond to them with better ideas of our own.”
Baloney, they aren’t interested in better ideas, any more than the arabs and moslems are interested in a genuine peace with Israel. The lies must stop! I must repeat, this guy is the Democrat’s Manchurian Candidate, their ticket to the White House and consolidation of power in the legislative and executive branches, though he’s using them as much as they are using him. The truth, when you survey his family, mentors, religious inculcation as a child, academic and occupatioal orientation, and his closest friends and benefactors, is that his reputation precedes him; It’s no exaggeration, as I and others have been saying, to suggest that he is a moslem communist posing as a Christian Democrat.
The so-called stimulus bill is bad enough in and of itself, but the most insidious and dangerous part of this is how it was railroaded through congress. In five short weeks, in addition to the improprieties during the campaign, the Dems have demonstrated that there isn’t much they won’t do to pursue their socialist power agenda. “ODS” is going to look tame compared to what’s coming, with the betrayal of Israel in the U.N. and the administration’s appointments, as well as the shift in trend of our relationships with Taiwan, the Tibetans, non-muslim Kenyans, and many others, in order to placate America’s enemies behind a facade of “aggressive diplomacy”; As well as the in your face income theft of the American people by a gang of pretentious and presumptuous socialist fools whose now obvious agenda is the simple consolidation of their power over the people, with the outrageous justification of “redistribution”. The Dems are treating their situation as no less than a mandate and coup d’etat by virtue of their marginal success in the election. Perhaps they need to be confronted in a civil and “constructive” manner in some environments, but they must realize that at some point an important contingent of the approximately 48% of the voters who don’t like what happening, are not going to simply acquiesce in this betrayal without a “real” fight.
Bush Derangement Syndrome:
Characterized by blind unreasoning hatred for an individual who most sufferers of BDS had never met.
Characterized by self-confident accusations of “he’s an idiot”, without a shred of fact to back up the accusation (plesae note: differences of opinion do not count as facts). Such accusations are/were usually made in a tone that almost came out as a dare for anyone to disagree with the premise.
Characterized by the tactic of trying to shout down opposition, rather than debate reasonably.
Characterized by instinctive opposition to everything Bush did or tried to do, regardless of the merits of his position- it was simply important to oppose him regardless.
Characterized by paranoid delusions involving Bush “spying” on innocent American citizens.
Characterized by paranoid delusions that Bush routinely and personally approved inhumane torture techniques at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.
Characterized by paranoid delusions that Bush was going to impose a theocracy on the US.
Characterized by asinine delusions that the US and it’s military were the root cause of all of the world’s problems, and that if only Bush weren’t president then the world would suddenly come together, love the US again, and start singing Kumbaya as the love poured back into international relations.
Obama Derangement Syndrome:
Apparently, characterized by a tendency to disagree strongly with leftist policies now being implemented, with that opposition being based upon an understanding of economics and how such plans have failed miserably, in whole or in part, both in the US as well as in other nations.
It’s about the policies.
I’m not into identity politics.
Every policy enacted by this Congress and President are moving this country in the wrong direction.
I don’t ascribe motives to that. Some have said it’s intentional and that Obama wants to destroy this country. THAT IS ODS.
Those of us who disagree with the policy need to debate about the substance of the policiy and leave identity out of it.
“Some have said it’s intentional and that Obama wants to destroy this country. THAT IS ODS.”
Not really, it’s clear as a bell that Obama and company are on a clear and rushed trajectory to radically change the direction of America’s policies, foreign and domestic, and in such manner that the consequences will be quite staggering for those who are the victims, especially and immediately with the proposed confiscatory agenda. “Transform” might be a more appropriate term, “Destroy” may become significantly more relevant if the Iranian Shiite 12th Imam (Mahdi) movement become more empowered as Obama and company weaken America by various cuts in defense spending, especially Star Wars and other high tech programs. Don’t underestimate the long-term damage that incompetent left-wing ideologues can do to a country. One only need look at Cuba, Russia, Communist China, North Korea, etc. I’m not engaging in some kind of thoughtless “ODS” by any stretch of the imagination. People are simply not cognizant of the danger which is lurking with these people running things, and the short and long-term consequences.
“The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of it’s user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny.
In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized.”
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”
Semper Fi
Baklava Says:
Every policy enacted by this Congress and President are moving this country in the wrong direction.
I don’t ascribe motives to that. Some have said it’s intentional and that Obama wants to destroy this country. THAT IS ODS.
I respectfully disagree. First of all, it isn’t just Obama. It is the radical Left which now almost totally controls our educational system and our entertainment industry, and comprises large swaths of Congress. Young people are being marinated in a Left-dominated culture practically from the cradle. It’s no surprise that they vote the way they do. It must seem as natural as breathing to them.
Secondly, try as I might, I can see only two possibilities for the policies of Obama and the Congressional Democrats:
1. They are unbelievably stupid, and are utterly, utterly ignorant of 20th century history.
2. They are doing it on purpose, with the intention of ruining the American economy and impoverishing the majority of the American people. Why? To gain power over us.
I just don’t see the evidence that they are that stupid.
Furthermore, I’ve believed for many years that in order to establish a world government, which I believe will be socialist in nature, two things first have to happen:
1. The American economy must be weakened or destroyed.
2. The American military must be weakened or destroyed.
Step 1 is happening right now. For a further discussion of Step 2, see this post at Belmont Club.
Obama is a part of this process, but it isn’t all about him.
Nortius Maximus, sorry to reply a bit late, but I am at odds with many, perhaps most, of my fellow Democrats on a number of issues. But I look at the comments here and elsewhere about one-world socialists (or Muslims, sometimes both at once) intending to destroy the country and I wonder whom the commenters are talking about. That make things any clearer?
greeneyeshade,
Not to get in the conversation between you and NM, but I would note that both left and right have their fringe elements.
Just as it’s not correct to judge the policies of the left by the far left fringe, it’s likewise not correct to judge the right by the far right fringe.
However, having said that I would note that accusations by the left that the far right fringe were taking over during Bush the Younger proved to be totally inaccurate.
While I don’t necessarily agree with what the fringe right may say either, it’s still perfectly reasonable to believe that the direction foreign, economic, and social policies are taking are wrong without likewise believing that it’s all a conspiracy to create a one world government or something like that.
It’s not any sort of derangement syndrome, it’s enlightened self-interest.
Try this, put one foot on a red-hot stove, the other one on a block of ice. They average out….right?
There’s a thing in systems control theory called “bang-bang” control. The inputs to (say) motors are thrown hard in one or the other direction, and the system functioning can be smoother than that, due to inertias and latencies in the system dampening things out.
There are a lot of “bang-bang” speakers in the world. There are a lot of outlets for them. Single-issue voters and “litmus tests” share some similarity.
It’s not always clear (especially in cool media like blogs) what the payoffs and costs are. Bold speech makes an impression and can feel good, even righteous for the utterer. This has been humorously referred to as the “Greater F***wad Theory” (somewhat NSFW(language) origin: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ ). Clay Shirky and other researchers have observed similar things, though less colorfully.
There’s a lot more to say about the usually unmentioned transition from viewpoints such as “This policy will destroy (part of) this country that I love” to expressions of the form “This person/political figure wants to destroy the country…”, but let’s take that as read for now.
Tyrone has a fine point….Another insult Minimus, and
I shall meet you on the commons. I will remove the tip from my rapier and you will feel my point!
Retract your black assertions Sir!
I see no “Minimus” here. Nonetheless, if the sabot fits… 🙂
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Interesting. After watching Obama last night I am more convinced than ever that he does not know how to do anything other than campaign. Personally I see him as somewhat of a political “idiot savant”.
One other observation. As I was watching the comments of the pundits on Fox News after Gov Jindal’s speech they all talked about the delivery – that it was not good. Oddly enough I found it to be positive without being rah, rah. I actually thought it struck just the right tone in both message and delivery. The odd part is that it somewhat reflects the dichotomy of the liberal description of George Bush and Barack Obama. When Bush was hesitant and trying to gather his thoughts he was deemed an idiot and a buffoon. When Obama did the same thing he was called measured and thoughtful.
The Democrats undid welfare reform without public notice or discussion. If we wish to avoid the ODS label, how should we describe this act? They lied blatantly in calling their unprecedented pork fest a “stimulus” package. How to describe it without being guilty of the ODS label? Obama laid out a plan which seeks to nationalize health care. These are incredibly ambitious plans.
I don’t think anyone is smart enough to make socialism work. If anyone is, he certainly hasn’t shown that he is.
To me, the primary symptom of BDS was/is the blind and vile hatred exuded by those with the disease.
While I do see signs of such on the right and therefore might call it beginning stages of ODS, I have yet to see the slathering spews of venom in blog posts, or the posters and signs we used to see at the anti-Bush demonstrations. Maybe I’m just not frequenting the right blogs, but it certainly (that is ODS) doesn’t appear as widespread as BDS is/was.
“ODS, the Term”, is coming from the left. It is a preemptive strike. It has been thrown out there in case it is needed as a defense later on.
Brooks is about right. These are smart people, used to being smarter than those around them. Therefore, they think they are smart enough to accomplish all this.
If, as he and I believe, no one is smart enough to do these top-down marvels, even acting in concert, when things begin not to work it could get ugly. Confident people tend to double down, and to blame others for screwing up their wonderful plans. Those others then become more vulnerable.
I tend to the belief that Obama is smart and thinks he’s smart enough, but is way out of his depth and already starting to wing it. He doesn’t know that yet, still focused on the grand plan. It is the details he is winging, relying on the conventional wisdom of his tribe rather than thinking through. The size and importance of those details will grow.
I don’t see much evidence of ODS, especially compared to the vile loathing of Bush expressed by the left in recent years. But then my blog-reading is limited. I have been highly critical of Obama, and especially of the pretentious way in which he and his supporters have presented themselves, but I don’t hate him. I see him as an intelligent man, limited by his background, coping with problems he only dimly comprehends. He is the product of academia and the activist community, which are both informed by theoretical constructs and an adversarial mindset that have little application to the real world of national politics. In short, he’s learning on the job and the learning curve is steep. I wish him well, but little he has done so far inspires in me much confidence.
If it’s ODS to assert that Obama is acting like Canute-without-a-clue; that the Incredible Shrinking Sunshine Policy is evidence of functional duplicity, no matter what the excuse were he to deign to offer one; that he’s neither FDR nor Lincoln… then I guess I’ve got it.
D.B. Light and physicsguy may not have seen too many signs of ODS, but I have. It’s not just Obama: I look at the comments on right-of-center blogs (including this one) and I don’t even recognize the people with whom, as a national-security Democrat, I disagree. Shrinkwrapped’s post came as a, well, as a breath of fresh air.
greeneyeshade, begging your pardon… would you mind unpacking that phrase just a bit? What does “I don’t even recognize the people with whom, as a national-security Democrat, I disagree” mean? I can think of at least three interpretations and I’d rather not guess.
“If the Right derides Obama as a fool or convinces itself he is an evil genius, they will make themselves look foolish or venal. The wisest course is to criticize his policies and respond to them with better ideas of our own.”
Baloney, they aren’t interested in better ideas, any more than the arabs and moslems are interested in a genuine peace with Israel. The lies must stop! I must repeat, this guy is the Democrat’s Manchurian Candidate, their ticket to the White House and consolidation of power in the legislative and executive branches, though he’s using them as much as they are using him. The truth, when you survey his family, mentors, religious inculcation as a child, academic and occupatioal orientation, and his closest friends and benefactors, is that his reputation precedes him; It’s no exaggeration, as I and others have been saying, to suggest that he is a moslem communist posing as a Christian Democrat.
The so-called stimulus bill is bad enough in and of itself, but the most insidious and dangerous part of this is how it was railroaded through congress. In five short weeks, in addition to the improprieties during the campaign, the Dems have demonstrated that there isn’t much they won’t do to pursue their socialist power agenda. “ODS” is going to look tame compared to what’s coming, with the betrayal of Israel in the U.N. and the administration’s appointments, as well as the shift in trend of our relationships with Taiwan, the Tibetans, non-muslim Kenyans, and many others, in order to placate America’s enemies behind a facade of “aggressive diplomacy”; As well as the in your face income theft of the American people by a gang of pretentious and presumptuous socialist fools whose now obvious agenda is the simple consolidation of their power over the people, with the outrageous justification of “redistribution”. The Dems are treating their situation as no less than a mandate and coup d’etat by virtue of their marginal success in the election. Perhaps they need to be confronted in a civil and “constructive” manner in some environments, but they must realize that at some point an important contingent of the approximately 48% of the voters who don’t like what happening, are not going to simply acquiesce in this betrayal without a “real” fight.
Bush Derangement Syndrome:
Characterized by blind unreasoning hatred for an individual who most sufferers of BDS had never met.
Characterized by self-confident accusations of “he’s an idiot”, without a shred of fact to back up the accusation (plesae note: differences of opinion do not count as facts). Such accusations are/were usually made in a tone that almost came out as a dare for anyone to disagree with the premise.
Characterized by the tactic of trying to shout down opposition, rather than debate reasonably.
Characterized by instinctive opposition to everything Bush did or tried to do, regardless of the merits of his position- it was simply important to oppose him regardless.
Characterized by paranoid delusions involving Bush “spying” on innocent American citizens.
Characterized by paranoid delusions that Bush routinely and personally approved inhumane torture techniques at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.
Characterized by paranoid delusions that Bush was going to impose a theocracy on the US.
Characterized by asinine delusions that the US and it’s military were the root cause of all of the world’s problems, and that if only Bush weren’t president then the world would suddenly come together, love the US again, and start singing Kumbaya as the love poured back into international relations.
Obama Derangement Syndrome:
Apparently, characterized by a tendency to disagree strongly with leftist policies now being implemented, with that opposition being based upon an understanding of economics and how such plans have failed miserably, in whole or in part, both in the US as well as in other nations.
It’s about the policies.
I’m not into identity politics.
Every policy enacted by this Congress and President are moving this country in the wrong direction.
I don’t ascribe motives to that. Some have said it’s intentional and that Obama wants to destroy this country. THAT IS ODS.
Those of us who disagree with the policy need to debate about the substance of the policiy and leave identity out of it.
“Some have said it’s intentional and that Obama wants to destroy this country. THAT IS ODS.”
Not really, it’s clear as a bell that Obama and company are on a clear and rushed trajectory to radically change the direction of America’s policies, foreign and domestic, and in such manner that the consequences will be quite staggering for those who are the victims, especially and immediately with the proposed confiscatory agenda. “Transform” might be a more appropriate term, “Destroy” may become significantly more relevant if the Iranian Shiite 12th Imam (Mahdi) movement become more empowered as Obama and company weaken America by various cuts in defense spending, especially Star Wars and other high tech programs. Don’t underestimate the long-term damage that incompetent left-wing ideologues can do to a country. One only need look at Cuba, Russia, Communist China, North Korea, etc. I’m not engaging in some kind of thoughtless “ODS” by any stretch of the imagination. People are simply not cognizant of the danger which is lurking with these people running things, and the short and long-term consequences.
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“The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of it’s user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny.
In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized.”
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”
Semper Fi
I respectfully disagree. First of all, it isn’t just Obama. It is the radical Left which now almost totally controls our educational system and our entertainment industry, and comprises large swaths of Congress. Young people are being marinated in a Left-dominated culture practically from the cradle. It’s no surprise that they vote the way they do. It must seem as natural as breathing to them.
Secondly, try as I might, I can see only two possibilities for the policies of Obama and the Congressional Democrats:
1. They are unbelievably stupid, and are utterly, utterly ignorant of 20th century history.
2. They are doing it on purpose, with the intention of ruining the American economy and impoverishing the majority of the American people. Why? To gain power over us.
I just don’t see the evidence that they are that stupid.
Furthermore, I’ve believed for many years that in order to establish a world government, which I believe will be socialist in nature, two things first have to happen:
1. The American economy must be weakened or destroyed.
2. The American military must be weakened or destroyed.
Step 1 is happening right now. For a further discussion of Step 2, see this post at Belmont Club.
Obama is a part of this process, but it isn’t all about him.
Nortius Maximus, sorry to reply a bit late, but I am at odds with many, perhaps most, of my fellow Democrats on a number of issues. But I look at the comments here and elsewhere about one-world socialists (or Muslims, sometimes both at once) intending to destroy the country and I wonder whom the commenters are talking about. That make things any clearer?
greeneyeshade,
Not to get in the conversation between you and NM, but I would note that both left and right have their fringe elements.
Just as it’s not correct to judge the policies of the left by the far left fringe, it’s likewise not correct to judge the right by the far right fringe.
However, having said that I would note that accusations by the left that the far right fringe were taking over during Bush the Younger proved to be totally inaccurate.
While I don’t necessarily agree with what the fringe right may say either, it’s still perfectly reasonable to believe that the direction foreign, economic, and social policies are taking are wrong without likewise believing that it’s all a conspiracy to create a one world government or something like that.
It’s not any sort of derangement syndrome, it’s enlightened self-interest.
Try this, put one foot on a red-hot stove, the other one on a block of ice. They average out….right?
There’s a thing in systems control theory called “bang-bang” control. The inputs to (say) motors are thrown hard in one or the other direction, and the system functioning can be smoother than that, due to inertias and latencies in the system dampening things out.
There are a lot of “bang-bang” speakers in the world. There are a lot of outlets for them. Single-issue voters and “litmus tests” share some similarity.
It’s not always clear (especially in cool media like blogs) what the payoffs and costs are. Bold speech makes an impression and can feel good, even righteous for the utterer. This has been humorously referred to as the “Greater F***wad Theory” (somewhat NSFW(language) origin: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ ). Clay Shirky and other researchers have observed similar things, though less colorfully.
There’s a lot more to say about the usually unmentioned transition from viewpoints such as “This policy will destroy (part of) this country that I love” to expressions of the form “This person/political figure wants to destroy the country…”, but let’s take that as read for now.
Tyrone has a fine point….Another insult Minimus, and
I shall meet you on the commons. I will remove the tip from my rapier and you will feel my point!
Retract your black assertions Sir!
I see no “Minimus” here. Nonetheless, if the sabot fits… 🙂