Jules Crittenden…
…has a lot to say, including something I meant to mention about George Bush:
Obama is in luck. George Bush ended that war in Iraq, and all Obama and the Dem Cong have to do is not screw up the peace….[T]he one thing I wanted most out of the second Bush administration has been accomplished.
Get ready for a shock. The democrats will surrender to the terrorists, allow Iraq to fall and it’s citizens to be slaughtered. The did it in Vietnam (after the war was won) and they still have a wounded ego from losing to Bush twice and being humiliated hundreds of times in 8 years. The wins in congress was not so much Bush as it was the stupidity of the democrats but they won’t accept that. They must have revenge evin if it cost a million or more lives.
I don’t think there are enough nihilist left in Iraq to do much slaughtering, not to say there won’t be a recrudescence from Iran. It would be like getting an ‘A’ on a term paper and then getting an ‘F’ for forgetting to sign your name, crying shame.
The did it in Vietnam (after the war was won)
The North Vietnamese had the help of the Chinese and Soviets. AQ will only ever likely have the help of Iran and Iraq already held off Iran under Saddam. (Meaning the US trained and bonded forces in Iraq will slaughter the Iranians under at least mediocre leadership).
(Meaning the US trained and bonded forces in Iraq will slaughter the Iranians under at least mediocre leadership).
Hum, New Saddam to be borne in Mesopotamian land to fight the Persian!!! But this time with real WMD.
And of course if say, Kirkuk or Mosul were to explode for any reason, that will be entirely the Democrats fault.
You can count on Crittendon for a lot of things, but an understanding of the vagaries of cause and effect is not one of them.
My eldest nephew is in Afghanistan on his second tour, the next in line is a 2nd Lt. in the reserves. The next two in line Niece then nephew are at the Air Force Academy. My father was a career AF officer and pilot as were both my brothers. I have been around the military all my life and I know how military men think.
My biggest fear is that the commanders on the ground will be replaced (or retire) and that as troops are pulled out it will become increasingly more dangerous for those left still there as the different factions are emboldened. If the violence increases and the Americans withdrawing the locals will feel abandoned and will revert to keeping their mouths shut in hopes of avoiding retribution.
Then of course there is Pakistan. I wouldn’t be surprised to see AQ feint with some info about bin Laden being there in hopes BO will keep his promise and invade – destabilizing the government – hey – forget Iran – how about radicals taking over a country that already has the nukes?
Neo,
I refer you and your visitor’s to this excellent essay in WSJ today:
The Treatment of Bush Has Been a Disgrace
JEFFREY SCOTT SHAPIRO
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122584386627599251.html?mod=todays_us_opinion
Since the Iraqi government has proposed, and the United States has essentially accepted, a status of forces agreement that calls for all US troops to leave by 2011 (basically a don’t let the doorknob hit you in the butt), I don’t think an Obama administration has a lot of choices. The Iraqis have decided to go it alone; the United States can only wish them well and hope.
Jules writing style is interesting.
thanks for sharing so i could read that.
i pretty much said what i thought of tomorrows games in the last post. no need to rehash.
I am just trying to figure out how to hunker down and get through… right now i just think it will be hard times, but who knows… leave early be a fool, leave late and be a dead fool, balance on the cutting edge of a razor blade and get it just right, or dont leave at all, maybe just move to another state. for some reason using an 8 ball wont help.
John, For your flowery rhetoric (basically a don’t let the doorknob bit you in the butt) there have been 1,000 + words between the US and Iraq leadership.
We are essentially successful in Iraq and instead of posing it that way – can you recognize success John, you CHOSE to pose it in the negative.
That says more about you than think.
*John Sprague:
“basically a don’t let the doorknob hit you in the butt”
This from a guy whose country might at best be expected to send a token force to guard some hotel rooms down by the beach.
This from a guy whose country’s security is largely bought and paid for by the American tax payer.
This from a guy whose countrymen are awful fond of armchair quarter-backing from the comfort of home while lecturing not only the leaders of this country, but its citizens, on morality without having to make any of the tough choices necessary in ensuring that his own country, as well as those now or previously ruled by brutal psychopaths.
I gotta tell you, Im not impressed.
Since the Iraqi government has proposed, and the United States has essentially accepted, a status of forces agreement that calls for all US troops to leave by 2011
That’s about all the thanks or gratefulness that an American Soldier can expect and has ever gotten.
Insert please…in ensuring that his own country, as well as those now or previously ruled by brutal psychopaths have and keep the oppurtunity to live as they see fit.
You know John, and another thing:
Its wonderful that you people can hobble yourselves with a health care system paid for in part by the fact you dont also really need to pay for a military, thanks to us, while talking smack about the way we conduct variuous foreign policy you people couldnt be bothered to dirty your hands with.
All this, I can easily imagine, while sitting in an American hospital waiting room preparing to undergo a medical proceedure you couldnt get from your freeloading nation without a 3 month waiting period.
You people have such class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP06C37o35Q
WTF? I guess Russia put tanks on the EU border to clarify his position on this….
My biggest fear is that the commanders on the ground will be replaced (or retire) and that as troops are pulled out it will become increasingly more dangerous for those left still there as the different factions are emboldened. If the violence increases and the Americans withdrawing the locals will feel abandoned and will revert to keeping their mouths shut in hopes of avoiding retribution.
There appear to be at least some troops who desire this.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/55363.html
The Iraqis have decided to go it alone; the United States can only wish them well and hope.
Sort of. It would be more accurate to say that the Shiite dominated government wants to go it alone, but that the Sunnis are not so eager to see us go (if you can even imagine so strange a thing after years of fighting the Sunni insurgency.)
Yeah, but dont let the doorknob hit us in the ass on the way out.
Since the Iraqi government has proposed, and the United States has essentially accepted, a status of forces agreement
This is statement hid a lot……
How the occupier been asked by a poppet thugs corrupted guys to stay on the land that they have no love.
Its clear now what’s Da’awa Al-Hakem militia did and doing have no respect and love for Iraqis this obvious from the drilled
That’s about all the thanks or gratefulness that an American Soldier can expect and has ever gotten.
Iraqi Opinions From the Green Zone
One early Spring evening in 1975 at Fort Lee, Virginia, U.S. Army Quartermaster Center, I was over for dinner in the NCO family housing area at an E-5 friend’s house. His wife was a widow of an ARVN major he had met in 1971 at Cam Ranh Bay, Republic of South Vietnam.
We were watching the news about what was happening with the Communist offensive into the South. These were the reports coming in days before the North Vietnamese forces were approaching Saigon. Most of the rest of the country had fallen already.
My friend’s wife, An, was visibly crying. It was tough to see, since she was a gem of a lady and a very tough woman. She was witnessing her homeland being overrun by totalitarians. Her family was over there. So were many of her old friends. Al, my friend, was obviously shaken, and so was I.
In 1974 Congress decided to cut off military aid to the Saigon government, despite reports of the impending Communist offensive. Despite the clear violations of the treaty that had been signed in Paris in 1973.
Guess who was a new junior senator from Delaware who agreed, along with his peers in the Senate, with the House bill? None other than Joe Biden.
Sixty thousand Americans and many times more that number of South Vietnamese had given their lives to insure that the Republic of South Vietnam would not be gobbled up by the Communists. The blood and treasure we spent were shat upon by the Congress and Senate. The violation of a treaty was regarded with no more interest than a dog crapping on the side of the road.
I fear a repeat of this episode. There have been reports that for months the Obama advisers and Obama himself have been obstacles to a new security agreement with the Iraqi government. As if they did not already have other significant differences to iron out, Obama and his people were being obstructive.
Some people have no sense of honor and loyalty. The only thing that matters to them is power and the intoxication of their own ideology.
Truth,
You are a disgrace to the human race. A real waste of human protoplasm. You have the balls to pollute our forum with your propaganda. Your nom-de-guerre is a joke.
tell me one thing the Americans have done right in Iraq
Your statistics are nonesense.
We gave them a chance they didn’t have. We gave them a chance to become Dubai.
1/3 want us gone 1/3 want us to stay and 1/3 don’t care–that is the same statistics as in America before our revolution.
It’s won. We are leaving. Their fate is their own for the first time.
To
TruthFalse, Our freedom and the Revolutionary war was a mistake………His ancestors made a mistake.
Baklava: Whatever other readings you can have of the current situation, the facts available suggest that the current elected government has requested, courteously but firmly, an agreement that will see virtually all American fighting troops leaving Iraq in 36 months or less. It also appears clear from the comments out of the Bush administration, that the decision to have American troops leave Iraq by date certain came about at the request of the Iraqi, not the American government. You may bridle at the metaphor I used, but I do not see how you can doubt the reasonableness of interpreting the Iraqi conditions as a polite but firm request to leave them to take care of their own country.
I have not said I consider this a failure. In fact, I do not necessarily consider it a failure, but a necessary prelude to any possibility of success, for as I have written before, you cannot properly describe a country which depends on foreign troops to keep its government in power as a democracy: colony or protectorate, perhaps, but not democracy.
Some neo-conservative writers harbored fantasies such as these:
Certainly, if you consider a loss of control by the United States in Iraq a negative or a defeat, then you will classify this development as a negative, but I see no reason to do so. Success in Iraq will remain uncertain for some time, but the Iraqis appear to have made it clear that the American government no longer has a direct role to play, and therefore it seems clear that you cannot justly attach any sort of blame to President Obama, unless of course you have actual evidence that he sabotaged the Bush Administration’s negotiations.
You are a disgrace to the human race.
Did you forget your ancestors and your history?
If there, people who are “a disgrace to the human race” look not far form GWB, Dr. Death and other gangs in the team of WH.
Remember you are not our God; you are just a very small element of God creation…….
To those telling that US did well to Iraqis, tell us what the goods false those points in that comment in NYT article.
Six years and people still blind cannot make dentitions between Black and white are they blind after six years?
those telling that Iraqi asked US to stay, why then the details of the agreement kept secrets?
This agreement represent very important element for the life of all Iraqi if as you dreamed Iraqi love to see US tropes on their land.
With new democracy that created by US asked them why the wary put this agreement in public domain and see Iraqi voting is it the right way for the new democracy that you pride that US brought to Iraqis?
Why US fear doing that tell us please?
Stick to the points, follow Neo blog Rules here by trying adding to the discussion instead of twisted to a personal attacks.
Even if we pulled out, it would take months… so Iraq would still have some extra time to finish standing up on their own…
If Obama wants to lose in Iraq and Afghanistan, he’ll have to do it fast in order to blame Bush. The longer it takes, the more of it rubs off on him and the dems.
And I do believe he positively wants to have a catastrophe there.
So, with the progs and radiclibs, we can be “humbled”.
Truth – what is it? I watched the video, couldn’t understand a word said.
An untimely pullout of US combat forces will allow Iran to cut the flow of oil to the north which in turn creates more European dependence on Russian oil and Russia in turn stays solidlly in the corner with Iran, quid pro quo and an ace in the hole on the UN Security Council. With more European reliance on Russian oil, China must strengthen its energy ties with Iran. China has massive energy contracts with Iran by the way. China’s money will enable Iran’s nuclear program to excelerate and provide funding for ‘extra cirricular activities’. With a destablized Iraq visa via Iran, Jordan is highly vulnerable and if Jordan can be destabalized, Israel is in serious jeopardy given hizbullah’s strength on its norther flank and its support from Iran with increased cash from China.
Whoever coined the phrase “blood for oil” was spot on – some shed now to prevent a whole lot more being shed later on.
Bottom line? our troops stay in Iraq for quite some time and US support of Israel continues as well. It doesn’t matter who is President. When a mass of people vote a first term Senator into the Presidency on the belief he can share the wealth, other, more power forces assert themselves – of course it has been this way for several decades now.
I sometimes wonder (but not too much) about what the people on the other side of this debate are like in real life. I mean, does Truth walk around every day filled to the brim with self-righteous anger, bitter over the injustices and abominations of the U.S. military in Iraq? Was he filled with this same anger during the sweet spring of justice, freedom and prosperity that existed before we invaded? Does John Sprague spend all his time in dignified reading of left-wing pundits and their make believe positions so he that can quote them back to us and correct us of the error of our ways?
Iraq is a victory for the United States and every other nation of the world that values freedom and justice for its people. As President Talabani said, the loss of life and destruction of property in Iraq was terrible but what would have been had Saddam remained was far worse. Our victory, in Iraq, is the ability to leave a free and democratic nation, with the ability to defend its people and its borders, and to live in peace and choose its own future. That is the greatest achievement we could have ever hoped for.
The big O has his work cut out for him on the foreign fronts – Iran has warned the US to keep its troops away from the border, Russia is setting up some missles in the Baltic, Hamas lobbed a bunch of rockets at the Israelis, bombs been going off again in Baghdad after a quiet spell – they know the community organizer doesn’t carry a big stick and backs up his small stick with reason and diplomacy.
Regarding future relations between the US and Iraq, it’s instructive to note that the primary weapons the Iraqis are upgrading to are not Russian – as was the case for generations.
No, the Iraqis are predominantly re-equipping their new military with American weapons and weapons systems. These kinds of weapons systems require a major commitment on the part of the Iraqis regarding maintenance and support services from the US. The Iraqi army and police forces are also being trained by US military advisers along US models.
These facts as much as any other indicate the desire by the Iraqis for some sort of long term relationship with the US.
You will continue to see some pretty outrageous language from the Shiite sector which controls most of the government and are heavily influenced by Iran, but the Sunni and Kurdish elements are not so crazy about US withdrawel.
I bet ya they quietly keep some US forces in country if for no other reason than training and support purposes.
This runs a fine line between claiming they have ordered US forces out to keep the loudest fanatics happy – and keeping a quiet arrangement in place for their own national security reasons.
Kind of like the Saudis do.
There is another side to the question of whether the Iraqis throw us out completely.
Say they do. Then, through various democratic and non-democratic machinations, they turn themselves into a repressive, vicious theocracy.
Jews and Christians are at risk. If there are any left.
Then it will be said, with perfect truthfulness, “Given every freedom, 27 million Muslims voted themselves a vicious, repressive theocracy despite the other options open to them.”
It will/would weaken the arguments that Islam is just like Christianity except for a few whackjobs. They have murder bombers all over the world killing by the tens of thousands and we have Jerry Falwell. What’s to choose?
And it would justify a different look at Muslims within this country.
So, what the Iraqis do with their options has ramifications even liberals might not like. Although seeing the US humiliated might make up for it.
Obama’s most liberals acts won’t be in Congress, but through the bureaucracy where the public won’t scrutinize them as carefully. Watch the FCC and see the regulations or regulators he’ll appoint. They’ll limit the options for free speech on talk radio by hamstringing the broadcasters with ‘fees’, ‘penalties’, or assorted ‘controls’.
He’s a radical, but intelligent and he’ll sell Socialism carefully through a series of speeches tailored to appeal to the broadest possible base. Eventually the press will begin breathlessly reporting major policy speeches where he’ll assert his refusal to be ‘intimidated’, his ‘mandate’ or ‘independence’. It’s going to start slowly but accelerate quickly.
John wrote, “courteously but firmly, an agreement that will see virtually all American fighting troops leaving Iraq in 36 months or less.”
To which you wrote something about doors hitting our butts on the way out.
It shows MORE about you to write like you do than anything. Negativity is your way….
Submit yourself to an hour of looking at the relations between Iraqi children and US troops. Submit yourself to seeing the love and admiration and respect that many in Iraq have for the blood and sacrifice we have given for their cause and future.
A one sided view – which nobody on the right has but those on the left sometimes has – does nothing to recognize that the Iraqi people are in relative freedom now and will enjoy a better life.
The Revolutionary war, The civil war, many wars are fought and blood is spilled for freedom and the right to control their/our own destiny.
The fact that a life is lost is not in itself an indictment of a war. It is a symbol of the sacrifice it takes to win a war.
I lost a beloved one to lung cancer on July 08, 2006. I have love, compassion and understanding in my heart for anyone who loses somebody else.
There has been a lot of pain and suffering in Iraq over the last few decades. Now, they can control their own destiny for the most part. Hopefully the submit or die types that live there are mostly gone.
So the big staff meetings are already happening in my world to figure out how we are going to remain employed when our defense program gets cancelled or cut back disasterously.
I feel like vomiting.
I was laid-off 3 times under Clinton when defense got cut, but I wasn’t a single guy and sole breadwinner then….
I was laid-off 3 times under Clinton when defense got cut, but I wasn’t a single guy and sole breadwinner then….
Rather, I was a single guy and not sole breadwinner then…. barf….
Obama inspires loafers and freeloaders, but not productive workers and especially not soldiers, sailors, and marines.
Things will fall apart badly, around the world. The only question is how much can be put back together in workable condition?
Honestly, not much overseas. Europe will be finished by the time Obama is shown the door. The middle east will be in shambles, including Israel. Russia and China will be revitalized in their rapacious neo-imperialism and terrorism/revolution sponsorship.
All enemies in Latin America will be energized and replenished by Obama, and allies will be vanquished.
And all of that is just the silver lining to the cloud. Don’t ask me what the dark side will be like. If you’re like most permanent adolescents in the western world, you can’t handle a description of the coming truth, much less handle the truth itself.
Richard, may be, you have not heard this yet, but Kurds already proposed that USA kept their troops on bases in Kurdistan. Makes sense, for me.
Obama the narcisscist:
http://wwwfaithfreedom.org/obama.html
Try that again:Obamma the narcissist;
http://www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html
Obama & the strategy of manufactured crisis; or how to bring the US to it’s financial knees and then offer a messiah to save us…
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html
Obama the plagiarist:
http://patdollard.com/2008/11/study-ayers-was-ghostwriter-on-obama-dreams-book/
Marxists, Baathist & rich Saudi princes; who selected, groomed and propelled Obama to power….or where the money came from….
http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/is-obama-the-secret-son-of
David Holliday Says:
“I mean, does Truth walk around every day filled to the brim with self-righteous anger, bitter over the injustices and abominations of the U.S. military in Iraq?”
A lot of radicals (and well, ‘libs’) seem to carry themselves well. In their delusional worlds they’re something of hero fighting the good fight. Ergo, they’re quite happy with themselves and energized. As is typical, they project onto conservatives (no nuance, not open minded, blaw blaw blaw) but are really describing their true believing selves… just their true believe is their politics…
as I have written before, you cannot properly describe a country which depends on foreign troops to keep its government in power as a democracy: colony or protectorate, perhaps, but not democracy.
S. Korea, Europe, Canada…. But if you say so, Spragge, it must be true, eh?
This just in from ABC News:
Revelations from anonymous critics from within the McCain-Palin campaign suggest a number of complaints about the Alaskan governor:
Fox News reports that Palin didn’t know Africa was a continent and did not know the member nations of the North American Free Trade Agreement — the United States, Mexico and Canada — when she was picked for vice president.
Yeah Jacob, love those anonymous critics. They can say whatever they want with impunity, for whatever reason, and the press will eat it up, won’t they?
Let’s keep destroying Palin with rumors. Sounds good to me.
“Yeah Jacob, love those anonymous critics. They can say whatever they want with impunity, for whatever reason…”
Sounds like they have a lot in common with anonymous bloggers.
Jacob, one of the things which strikes me about the Progressives I know and read is that they all seem to think that I am as dumb and infantile as they are.
Thanks for the reminder and for keeping your Collective’s record unblemished.
Meanwhile Joe Biden is on record stating that FDR addressed the American people on television after the stock market crash.
Barack Obama offered the Kennedy-Khruschev Summit as a model to be emulated, although Kennedy himself acknowledged it as a disaster in which “[Khruschev] beat the hell out of me.” Sensing weakness in JFK, Khruschev ratcheted up the Cold War.
When Russia invaded Georgia, Obama’s response was to refer the matter to the UN, leaving one to wonder whether Obama understands that Russia is on the Security Council and can veto any UN action, or whether Obama doesn’t care about results, just the verbal process.
Have you ever wondered why Obama surrounds himself with subhuman scum? Honestly. Ayers, Wright, Emanuel, Pfleger, Frank, and the rest? What’s up with that?
Jacoby,
Birds of a feather….?
Sergey.
That would be nice, presuming the central government isn’t inclined to differ and can make the difference happen.
How autonomous is Kurdistan, anyway?
However, the point remains that the Iraqis have the power to prove what a number of people have been saying about Muslims. I hope they don’t. But there has never been an opportunity like this.
Unfortunately, Indonesia and Malaysia have been subject to creeping fundamentalism. Like Britain, I guess.
Richard Aubrey,
Not trying to speak for Sergey, but did want to point out that Kurdish areas of Iraq are already pretty much autonomous. They have their own government, their own military, their own schools, etc. It’s been the safest area in Iraq for years now.
IF the central government decided to subjegate the Kurds, they’d have their hands full even with US equipment and training.
After all, the Kurds have already had the benefit of the same influence – and have proven to be better fighters on average than the typical Iraqi military or police.
They are more motivated as they see themselves defending their home as opposed to an Iraqi army or police officer who is going to see themselves as imposing rule from outside.
On a national scale, your point is valid in that perceptions of bloodthirstiness, savagery, and general incompetence and corruption at a national government level would be vindicated if the central government allows that to happen.
But any such views must be tempered by the fact that the current central government is almost completely controlled by the Shiites – not the Kurds or Sunni.
Therefore any supposed vindication of negative stereotypes would more justifiably be leveled at the Shiite controlled government rather than as a general statement against all moslems.
The central problem in the Iraqi government seems to be a non-functional system of checks and balances at the moment between the 3 factions, with the Iranian influenced Shiite generally dominating and trying to force a quick US withdrawel.
I have it from an anonymous source that Obama doesn’t know that there are 50 states in the Union, Neo.
Sprague
This guy needs better logic circuits.
Suppose he is the best president we’ve ever had. Will it be racist to say so?
Suppose he’s the worst?
Who will acknowledge and define it? Who will be allowed to, I should say. No one has been able to question his policies, his motives, so far.
We are now speaking about the President Elect of the U.S. He has to be as color blind as the rest of us are expected to be. Is he capable of that? Do those who voted him in expect him to be?
When can I ask him the questions I’ve wanted answers to since he came upon the scene? After all, he works for me. I don’t work for him.
scottie. Yeah. People who got to go to Kstan thought of it as in-country R&R.
It was the Sunnis who did the oppression under SH.
Now it’s the turn of the Shia. We’ll see.
Anyway, the folks who have been excoriating Bush for imposing democracy on a culture which may not like it haven’t figured out what the obvious conclusion is if they’re right.
Would we be vetting future Muslim immigrants for Shia, Sunni, Wahaabi, Sufi, Salafist?
Now now Richard Aubrey, that would be discriminatory.
I suppose they would probably take every 3rd or 4th incoming immigrant and check them out more thoroughly – but if it’s done the way the airlines are run that would mean the 80 year old grannies get cavity searches while the 25 year old young man with the long beard and wrapped head carrying the rocket launcher gets to waltz right in – after all, can’t single them out on account of appearances now can we?
People like to mention father Hagee and equate it with Reverend Wright but the difference lies in the close personal friendship between Obama and Wright. Being friends with a racist is worse than seeking an endorement from one. Nobody in their right mind could justify remaining friends with a racist bigot not of your blood, but one can make a distasteful argument for a political alliance with one.
So what does it say about someone who knowlingly remains friends with a racist for 20 years. A man who performs your marriage ceremony and who you choose as your spiritual advisor?
And what does it say that you actually claim ignorance of his racist beliefs when they were well known and broadcast to everyone? Good God.
Jules wrote, “George Bush ended that war in Iraq, and all Obama and the Dem Cong have to do is not screw up the peace”
As I wrote over there, the childlike faith of both of you is touching. But they have a very good chance of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
What I do with my time (other than spending more of it than I ought to on this blog) has no relevance here. If you have the facts to contradict my statements, please provide them; I claim no monopoly on the truth. If you can’t, I can think of more dignified ways of making that clear than indulging in pointless ad hominem (or ad patria) attacks.
Some specifics:
goesh: We can do without oil pipelines, but we can’t do without democracy. If an Iraqi government tells the Americans to leave, the Americans should leave. If that means the Europeans have to ration gas, they’ve done it before. But allowing “shadow governments” that make the “real decisions” in defiance and even contempt of the people leads us to some very bad places.
PGH: I’ll tell you what I tell the 9/11 truthers I meet: if your world view requires a big conspiracy to do a really bad thing, then you need to adjust your world view. You can have big conspiracies to commit minor crimes, and you can have small conspiracies to commit major crimes, but in a the case of a major crime, like a “false flag” 9/11 or a “manchurian candidate”, too many people have to know too much.
Baklava: You don’t have to like my phrasing. If you have an answer to the facts I have provided, I’d love to see it.
J Peden: I have a feeling I may have found the root of the problem. I have obviously connected to this web log through a portal to parallel universes. (this may also explain a few of the assumptions that other posters have made). In my universe, the United States has virtually no troops in Canada, the visiting forces stationed here have no role in aiding the civil power, we have mutual defence arrangements, and Canada has, in any case, no enemies with either the interest or the means to make an attack on us that could bring down our government. During the three conflicts over the last century which involved an enemy that could have mounted an attack on the North American mainland, Canada played a full part, in two cases turning up well before the United States, and generally punching well above our weight. So tell me about the universe you live in. In what way does Canada depend on American military force to sustain our government where you live?
“In what way does Canada depend on American military force to sustain our government where you live?”
To sustain any democracy a global order is needed to deter rogue states, pirates, nuclear proliferation and other threats which can harm everybody everywhere. Now only US can summon significant resources to do so. And still it is not enough! (For decisive victory in Afganistan, for example.) So other wealthy democracies are basically free riders, that is, parasites: they enjoy global security necessary for their survival but not pay adequate price to keep it.
But allowing “shadow governments” that make the “real decisions” in defiance and even contempt of the people leads us to some very bad places.
Canada fer instance….
Sergey: OK, please identify the pirates that pose an immanent threat to the Canadian government, and which the United States deters. Likewise, please identify the specific rogue states, and particularly the proliferators that the United States removed an immediate threat to the Canadian government by bringing under control.
Gray: If you think that a “shadow government” exists in Canada, please explain how it operates.
“Iraq already held off Iran under Saddam.”
Iraq invaded Iran in 1980, not the other way around. I recommend reading a book on the subject, rather than pretending to know something when you don’t.
Final grade: Failure
“Canada fer instance….”
I’m guessing that he’s confused the “government-in-waiting”-style shadow government that out-of-power oppositions in most democracies form in preparation for eventually winning back high office with an imaginary secret cabal that controls the levers of power (in most conspiracy theory fantasies, these involve some combination of the Jews, the Free Masons, and the Illuminati; I wonder what combination he delusionally imagines “really” rules Canada?).
“When Russia invaded Georgia, Obama’s response was to refer the matter to the UN, leaving one to wonder whether Obama understands that Russia is on the Security Council and can veto any UN action, or whether Obama doesn’t care about results, just the verbal process.”
A quick Google search reveals:
“Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Monday [August 11] called on the United Nations Security Council to condemn Russia’s aggression against Georgia.”
But, I’m guessing you’re so over-taken by Obama Derangement Syndrome that you didn’t even think to do basic research.
Point of order: dislike of a politician or the political beliefs he or she represents may not make logical sense, but it does not, except in the most extreme cases, rise to the level of “derangement”. Nor does a political opinion ever constitute a “syndrome”. The experience of mixing mental health terms with politics shows it corrupts our view of mental health and degrades our view of politics.
I would agree that many of the people on this forum never seriously listened to what Mr. Obama had to say, never had the slightest intention of giving him or his campaign a serious hearing, and would (and will) easily seize on the worst possible interpretation of everything he says and does. That doesn’t make such people in any sense crazy; it merely means you have to take their perspective, and in some cases the personal interests they have declared, into account when you evaluate what they have to say.
someguy: by the way, in case you wonder why you’ve been banned and the worst of your comments deleted (I left the rest), it’s not for disagreement. It’s for coming on only to insult people. Disagreement is perfectly okay without the snark.
I also deleted the comment you tried to make after the banning. Interesting that you managed to change your IP number so quickly.
It’s very hard to treat Obama seriously when he makes immature cracks about Nancy Reagan in his very first press conference! Apology or not, it’s a sign of things to come.
To John Spragge: Today pirates are terrorists, mostly muslims, and they did plan to kidnap and behead premier-minister of Canada. Thousands of them were killed in Iraq, their best cadres. This way USA and Canada were protected and still are protected from serious terrorist attack on their soil. This is actually very underestimated triumph of Bush doctrine: after 9/11 everybody expected repeat of these horrors in nearby future.
It is very hard to take seriously anybody who during his campaign made so many U-turns on any issue he advanced. To be listened to is a privilege, not a right, and Obama has not yet achieved anything to convince me that he deserved to be listened to. He is a creature of David Axelrod, well-known image-maker, and there are light years between Obama rhetoric and his biography. Why should anybody hear speech-writer’s drivel and perceive it as a real thing?
Sergey: The only “plots” I know of to behead Canada’s Prime Minister involved seventeen very foolish young men who liked running around in the woods with paintball guns and talking big. Canadian law enforcement authorities dealt with them without any need for outside assistance. Do you have any specific evidence of a terrorist plot the United States foiled that Canadians could (and did) not deal with easily on our own?
Wait a year or two, with thousand new Muslims immigrants flow into the country, and you will be in the same situations as Britain, having thousands known terrorist operatives at large. Everywhere they behave the same, getting radicalized in mosques and establishing terror cells. There are no reasons for them to behave differently in Canada.
sergey: First, I don’t believe Muslims “behave the same” everywhere, second, I see no reason why the Muslim immigrants who come to Canada next year will behave any differently from those who came a year ago, or five or ten or thirty years ago.
But it doesn’t have any relevance anyway. You still haven’t come close to showing that we face any danger, internal or external, from which the United States protects us, or from which only the United States can protect us.
Maybe John thinks he doesn’t need the US, that perhaps Alaska will protect Canada from the status of “low hanging fruit”.
But, I’m guessing you’re so over-taken by Obama Derangement Syndrome that you didn’t even think to do basic research.
I don’t know what school teaches logic that says Obama didn’t say so because there’s a quote by McCain that said similar things concerning Georgia and the UN but I’d like to know which one for it’ll be good at indoctrination.
Obama and his ODS supporters will be needing such resources in the time soon to come.
In my universe, the United States has virtually no troops in Canada, the visiting forces stationed here have no role in aiding the civil power, we have mutual defence arrangements, and Canada has, in any case, no enemies with either the interest or the means to make an attack on us that could bring down our government.
….
So tell me about the universe you live in. In what way does Canada depend on American military force to sustain our government where you live?
It is guaranteed that you live in a different universe, John. A parallel one that touches upon the verse the Leftists live on, true, but your own since you’re from Canada, not Europe, and Canada has their own way of seeing and doing things.
As for telling you Canada’s reliance on the US military for 80% of the bulk freight traded between nations via the high seas, that’s not something of an attack on Canada the “patria” for all other nations rely upon the US Navy to shed the treasure and blood to keep their merchant marines safe from pirates and other threats.
In our world, John, national boundaries are kept solely by the use of force or the threat of it. In your world, John, the United Nations and the international brotherhood sustains national boundaries in a sort of stasis with the only threat being from US invasions.
This means that Canada can sustain their social welfare programs by cutting their military to an infinitesimal size compared to what would be required to actually protect Canadian borders or sea trade. Even still, Canada has problems paying for such programs or they have internal resentment towards provinces like Quebec or the capital because provinces like Manitoba or Alberta pay a disproportionate share of the costs of government while having less (proportional) representation in the government of Canada due to population size disenfranchisement.
Without the US as both an ally and military protector, John, the nation of Canada would have a far larger military and a far larger national security risk from both the NW and the South. You would be concerned more about land grabs and destabilization than over internal energy matters like carbon emissions or CAND.
I also deleted the comment you tried to make after the banning. Interesting that you managed to change your IP number so quickly.
Maybe he’s on a university network?
Ymarsakar: In the universe I live in, a “threat” can only come from someone who has both the ability and the intention to do you harm. For the sake of argument, we’ll assume the intention. Please identify the party with the ability. Please identify the nation with the ability to sustain a trans-oceanic invasion fleet against some relatively simple counter-measures the Canadian government could undertake. You say we don’t have the ability to guard our borders, but against what threat? What naval power (aside, of course, from the United States) has the necessary transports, open-ocean landing craft, sea-control ships, and supply ships to land enough troops to sustain an invasion of Canada that could overthrow our government?
The other issues you identify involve purely domestic political questions, and we have a hundred and seventy one year tradition (longer than your own) of solving our political problems without violence (longer than that of the United States), so when it comes to our internal politics, we need absolutely no help from the US military. That leaves and external aggressor. So please identify the country we have to worry about.