Insider tip, eavesdropped phone call
As some of the details of the airplane attack case are revealed, it seems clear that the investigation proceeded slowly and painstakingly over a period of months. But several interesting facts stand out so far.
The first is that breaking the case involved a strong degree of international cooperation, especially between the UK and Pakistan, as well as the US. Although for some this may conjure up thoughts of James Bond, the work no doubt was decidedly unglamorous. It started on a tip from someone in the Moslem community in Britain following last year’s London bombings, the informant being an example of one of those “good Moslems” many people search for, Diogenes-like (it’s my contention that they are not so very hard to find).
The investigation seems to have picked up steam as a result of a phone call from Pakistan to a plotter in the UK, intercepted by the police, on the arrest of his brother in Pakistan. Both were British citizens, as were all the conspirators arrested in Britain so far. I’m curious to know whether this phone call was monitored as the result of a search warrant. At any rate:
This telephone call intercept in Karachi and the arrest of Rashid Rauf helped a lot to foil the terror plan,” said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
“So, personal attacks without substance are de rigeur here? How very manly.”
Absolutely. It’s what we baby-killing redneck bloodthirsty neocon Zionists do for fun. Don’t like it? Please be bored and bothered somewhere else.
08/12/06 Reuters: Gunman assassinate director of the post office in Samawa
08/12/06 AP: Bomb Kills 2 U.S. Soldiers in Baghdad
08/12/06 ChadDally: Camden High School grad Jagger killed in Iraq war
First Sgt. Aaron Jagger, 43
08/12/06 thejournalnews: Severely wounded Marine heads for home
Marine Sgt. Eddie Ryan
08/12/06 AFP: Gunman kill two in Amara
08/12/06 AFP: Gunmen kill clan chieftain in Hilla and grocer in Iskandiriyah
08/12/06 Reuters: Two bodies found in Balad
08/12/06 dpa: Iraqi policeman killed, seven persons wounded in attacks
08/12/06 Reuters: Gunmen kill member of Iraqi intelligence
08/12/06 Reuters: Sniper kills policeman in Mosul
08/12/06 Reuters: Gunmen kill two civilians in Mosul
08/12/06 AFP: Two civilians killed in drive by shooting in Baquba
08/12/06 Reuters: US says kills 26 in Ramadi
08/12/06 AFP: Police captain killed in Baquba
08/12/06 AP: Bomb kills 2 in Basra
08/12/06 NYT: Ex-Iraqi Electricity Chief Named in Graft Inquiry
Oh for the love of god Pete…give it a rest. We can all read the news same as you. Posting all these ‘headlines’ does not one thing to advance your itenary. If you’ve smething to say, then say it. Quit hiding behind others opinions.
Does not look much difference from items taken from any newspaper from any major city in this country. In fact fewer people were killed than in any major city in this country.
One wonders if we took all of the murder statistics for this country in one day how large the differential would be?
So what is the point?
Sophistry, shoddy thinking and not even close to the gist of what neo neocon wrote on. When you seek to deceive the only person you deceive is yourself.
Pete points out the fact that there’s a civil war in Iraq. But what to do about it, Pete? Perhaps Pete thinks everything will be swell if the bad old Americans just walk away from Iraq. Or maybe he’s the type who gets offended when asked for his solution because “It’s all Bush’s fault” so why should he have to figure it out? That’s GWB’s job.
Oh well, at least Pete doesn’t have “blood on his hands”. Not in Pete’s name!
“Does not look much difference from items taken from any newspaper from any major city in this country. In fact fewer people were killed than in any major city in this country.”
In July there were approximately 100 Iraq deaths per day due to the chaos
we ignited. Iraq has a population of around 26 million. The US has a population of around 300 million. So to put this in perspective that would be equivalent to 1150 violent deaths per day in the USA or 420,000 per year. The USA has around 17000
homicides per year. So now what do you have to say for yourslef?
You made the bed. You will lay in it.
No, actually you can lie in it Pete. The rest of the grownups are trying to solve problems, not carp and harp and spew talking points.
The only “solution” that has a remote chance of working would be totally unacceptable to the fools that got us in this predicament with your support. Grownups? Don’t go feigning maturity while pleading with the likes of me to bail you out of your mess.
How’s that highway accident list going pete?
“Don’t go feigning maturity while pleading with the likes of me to bail you out of your mess.”
Typical. Just bitch and moan about what we’re doing while freely admitting that you have no idea how to make things better. Maybe if you do some more headline cutting-and-pasting we’ll win the war.
Harry,
Don’t ask old petey hard questions like that. He has selective amnesia and every morning all he remembers are his ‘droid talking points. That’s all that Howard Dean is paying him for.
If we hire Pete to destroy Al Qaeda, they would get annoyed at least. I’m assuming that this was what pete meant when he said someone asking him for help.
Mainstream America is tired of your inability to accept responsibility for your actions. Mainstream America is tired of your inabilty to clean up the mess you made due to your thoughtlessness. Thoughtlessness doesn’t have a built in excuse.
The only remote chance for a solution probably escaped us in 2004. At that point, with a different US government, we could have gone to the UN and said America has made a terrible mistake and now we need the world to help right this wrong before the situation in Iraq moves irretrivebaly beyond control. Sadly that did not happen.
Now all we are left with is slogans like “cut and run” or “doubling down on a bad bet”. There are many problems that can not be solved. Wisdom tells us when this is so. Not recognizing our limitations is a sign of intellectual immaturity. Thankfully mainstreams America’s collective wisdom is now shifting. Rightly so.
I will continue to remind you on the costs of your thoughtlessness until
we are out of Iraq or neo cuts me
off. Free speech? Free exchange of information? We will see.
Who the f**k elected you Tribune and Spokesman for “The People”, petey you jumped up little s**t?
You know damned well that Neo takes the weekends off and that your dropping will hang around here stinking up the place until she gets around to deleting them and zapping you.
Calm down wasp! I don’t have access to little Petey’s IP on this board, but were it checked I feel certain we’d find a Kos, DU or Huffington regular. He is here simply to drop word bombs and find our weak spots. By allowing him to punch those buttons and responding we merely add to his delight. Yahmir=Petey? No way to no at this time…but he’s a troll best ignored. Like any obnoxious toddler.
Typical. Just bitch and moan about what we’re doing while freely admitting that you have no idea how to make things better.
I can’t speak for Pete, of course. But here’s my idea of what should be done:
1) Get US troops out and get a multinational force in, with the soldiers consisting of troops contributed from Arab countries (but paid for by the US). It will make a huge difference to have Arabic-speaking troops who can actually communicate in the language of the Iraqi people. These troops should operate under the UN flag.
2) Under the aegis of these troops, hold local municipal elections in every Iraqi city and village. Hand over the task of reconstruction to the local officials thus elected, instead of trying to do that in the heavy-handed, top-down manner.
3) Constitute a Marshall Plan for Iraq, as was done for Europe after World War II.
4) We should not create permanent miliraty bases in Iraq, nor should we try to control Iraqi oil. Let’s give the Arab world a proof that we (US) is not being driven by selfish, mercenary interests, by dismantling US military bases from Iraq and promising not to control Iraqi oil.
Ginger,
That was the controlled response of drill instructors I have observed and admired. I know he’s just a little troll of no particular importance than a grease stain on the sidewalk. I just like to keep my invective muscles warm.
DI’s oberved and admired? Well hey then, you must have known mine! They are a rarified breed aren’t they? 🙂 Although he loved 1stSgt and was CSM at the end….he always ’11b’ hooahed for squad leader…hands down, he said, the toughest job he ever had. Of course, that was soldier taking care of soldiers….something one has to be there and done that to understand. Infantry…..80% to support that fine 20%! 😉
“1) Get US troops out and get a multinational force in, with the soldiers consisting of troops contributed from Arab countries (but paid for by the US). It will make a huge difference to have Arabic-speaking troops who can actually communicate in the language of the Iraqi people. These troops should operate under the UN flag.
Other than the fact you and pete forget we had asked the UN to help keep the peace in Iraq back in ’04 and were refused, I can think of no worse idea than what you have suggested.
Which Arab states? Saudi Arabia? Syria? If you’re going to have us pay for this, can I get a vote? And what will the Iraqi Shiite population think?
All this under the competent command of Koffi Anan huh?
Tell you what. How ’bout we train up an Iraqi Army and Police force. People who live right there and speak the language and know the people? Why dont we work on that for a while?
You and pete can go ahead and support our efforts and make this country united in our efforts to back the Iraqi government while they sort it out. How ’bout trying that for a while?
That way you can save the list compiling and actually do something helpful and constructive for a change.
I think what Pete really wants is for the US to reinstall Saddam Hussein and all his henchmen. Look at what he says: The US “ignited” the trouble in Iraq, i.e. the Iraqi people themselves bear no responsibility for all the killing, it’s the US who gave them the freedom to indulge their murderous ways, they can’t help it.
Harry Mallory wrote: Which Arab states? Saudi Arabia? Syria?
How about Israeli Arabs? 20% of Israeli citizens are arabs, after all. And Israel keeps getting billed as the only democracy in the Middle East. So why not deploy Israeli Arabs for this?
Harry Mallory wrote: If you’re going to have us pay for this, can I get a vote?
Obviously I am not in a position to “make us” pay for this. I’m not a dictator running the USA! I am putting out an idea in response to someone here who had written, “Just bitch and moan about what we’re doing while freely admitting that you have no idea how to make things better.” Citizens in a democracy have the free-speech right to put ideas out in the public arena, don’t they? These ideas then get debated and discussed in society (what we’re doing here is part of that), and then those ideas that muster support gets debated in the legislature and eventually some of them are voted on.
(At least, that is what ought to happen in a democracy in which citizens, rather than Big Oil and Big Haliburton and other Big Corporations, are calling the shots.)
ilana wrote: I think what Pete really wants is for the US to reinstall Saddam Hussein and all his henchmen. Look at what he says: The US “ignited” the trouble in Iraq, i.e. the Iraqi people themselves bear no responsibility for all the killing, it’s the US who gave them the freedom to indulge their murderous ways, they can’t help it.
I thought that neocons think that it is not Iraqis, but the foreign jihadists (who have infiltrated Iraq after we invaded and created chaos there), who are doing all the killing.
As for “re-installing Saddam Hussein and his henchmen”: the way you speak of “re-installing” betrays how little regard you really have for democracy in Iraq. It is not for us to “install” anyone. It is the choice of the Iraqi people. If Saddam Hussein wishes to contest the elections (and if that’s allowed by the new Iraqi Constitution) then of course he should be allowed to contest the elections. And if Iraqis want to elect him, they should be able to. The bottom line is that the Iraqis get to decide, not us. It is their country, not ours. I thought self-determination was a core value that all who believe in democracy share, but maybe I was mistaken!
—
Harry Mallory wrote: How ’bout we train up an Iraqi Army and Police force. People who live right there and speak the language and know the people? Why dont we work on that for a while?
We’ve been trying that for three years now and we’ve been spectacularly unsuccessful so far. Why? The reason isn’t difficult to see. As long as we’re an occupying power, an army or a police will be seen to lack legitimacy because they would be seen as our tools. Only when we withdraw can an Iraqi army or police have legitimacy in the eyes of Iraqis.
Ginger,
I was a commissioned puke in a combat support branch keeping the pointy end in the information loop with tactical poop. But, even I knew the value of a First Shirt of the been there, done that school. And, a CSM, on the prod can be a battalion commander’s and a soldier’s best friend.
I loved the time when my “carrier branch” was infantry and I could hang out with the people who do the heavy lifting. Eventually we became a branch and those days ended.
Intell is fun and important but being an Infantry O3 Co. Cmdr. has got to be one of the best jobs in the Army.
Here’s a great post by Iowahawk.
What Will It Take?
Troops from Saudi Arabia??????? – who are almost exclusively Sunnis! And drop them into a largely Shiite Iraq?
You think you have trouble now – go ahead and try that one and see what happens.
Adam: I have no idea who’s doing all the killing in Iraq, except that it’s mostly not the Americans.
As for re-installing SH, I thought I was speaking ironically, based on what Pete said (and now you): if the American invasion and removal of SH was the cause of the chaos there, then the cure that you seem to be proposing is to restore the status quo ante. For myself I am not proposing that the US re-install or install anyone.
Iraqi elections? I thought they had taken place, but I must have been dreaming it. But if you’re so hot for elections in Iraq, you must admit that they would never have taken place under SH (followed by his loathsome sons).
You may be right that the Americans should now be withdrawing from Iraq, but that does not mean they were responsible for the chaos. The people doing the chaos are the ones responsible.
“Iraqi elections? I thought they had taken place, but I must have been dreaming it.”
Elections carried out under the auspices of an invading/occupying power will always be seen as illegitimate, unfortunately. That’s the way it is. The only solution is for us to leave, and hold elections under a neutral (possibly UN) force.
“We’ve been trying that for three years now and we’ve been spectacularly unsuccessful so far. Why? The reason isn’t difficult to see. As long as we’re an occupying power, an army or a police will be seen to lack legitimacy because they would be seen as our tools.”
Screw what you feel what somebody elses perception of legitimacy exists. From what Im able to tell, the current violence isnt about how people perceive the US or US trained Iraqi’s at all. Its seems to have settled into ethnic/tribal/religious conflict with outsiders stirring the mix.
Your all Arab force isnt going to fix that for reasons already stated above.
Certainly not led by Koffi.
Boy, talk about your lack of legitimacy! If Lebanese current events arent able to persuade you that the UN is just not a serious organization, I dont know what will.
Face it Adam. We and our willing allies are the best hope they have.
Everyone should read this column:
http://www.currentviewpoint.com/cgibin/news.cgi?id=11&command=shownews&newsid=866
Thanks for the link. I read it. Sadly, far too few will I fear. It’s an important view.
Elections carried out under the auspices of an invading/occupying power will always be seen as illegitimate, unfortunately. That’s the way it is. The only solution is for us to leave, and hold elections under a neutral (possibly UN) force.
The ineffectual, corrupt UN is the opposite of neutral. UN fecklessness, allowing Saddam to give the finger to the UN for thirteen long years, only encouraged the despots who(like Saddam) support, sponsor and use terrorism. There are no “neutral” entities in this game, to believe there are only reveals the naiveté of the writer.
It is not for us to “install” anyone. It is the choice of the Iraqi people. If Saddam Hussein wishes to contest the elections (and if that’s allowed by the new Iraqi Constitution) then of course he should be allowed to contest the elections. And if Iraqis want to elect him, they should be able to. The bottom line is that the Iraqis get to decide, not us. It is their country, not ours.
Iraq just lost a war. Losers get to decide nothing. Let Saddam contest the elections? We just fought a war in order to assure that Saddam contests nothing. I wonder if the writer ever read anything about WW2. I wonder what would have happened had Hitler lived and was allowed to run for elections after Germany’s defeat. I hope the anti-war crowd puts forth this ‘plan’ during the upcoming elections.
Thanks for the link americanwoman.
The left says fighting terrorism only creates more terrorists. In reality, morally bankrupt multiculturalism, moral relativism and appeasement does.
Time to speak truth to moonbat.
grackle wrote: Iraq just lost a war. Losers get to decide nothing.
It’s very interesting (and revealing) to see that you are describing ordinary Iraqis as the “losers” in the war. I thought the war was meant to be to liberate them from Saddam (isn’t that the official rhetoric?) and that it was Saddam, and not ordinary Iraqis, who lost the war?
The left says fighting terrorism only creates more terrorists.
Fighting terrorism does not necessarily create more terrorists. But the war in Iraq was not “fighting terrorism”, because at that time there were no terrorists in Iraq.
Adam, Adam, Adam…
{Shakes his head}
and yet another “Adam, Adam, Adam” with much more head shaking and sighing. Please say you are not prepared to stand by that muddle-brained statement.
“Elections carried out under the auspices of an invading/occupying power will always be seen as illegitimate, unfortunately.”
By the terrorists, at any rate. And you.
Adam. you put out your thoughts on a way out. Might work in an ideal world, but that aside, you are starting to spam, and that is not polite.
So, justaguy, you seeing anyone for that condition? Infantile Leftism is nothing to be ashamed of and it is treatable even in the late saliva spattering stages. I hear there are even twelve step programs now.
justaguy, Im glad you guts are suddenly proponents of using wire taps to gain information on terrorists. Are you proposing that we may be able to make it as legal for us to do wire taps as they do in the UK? Get rid of FISA, tear down the Gorelick wall?
Great, Im all for that.
As for why Repubs pulled funding for the new screening machines, I dont know. Why dont you tell us your theory?
“but silly name calling bores me.”
I’ll give you the same response I give to everyone who makes that asinine comment:
Please be bored somewhere else or STFU.
What is it with these people? The UN in Iraq? The UN headquarters was blown up for Christ’s sake! This is turning into the comedy hour, it really is. Will a UN advocate tell me how they will stop sunnis and shias from killing each other? HA! HA! what a way to start the morning blog reading!
goesh, how do you propose to stop the sectarian violence in Iraq?
Absent a dictator with a draconian internal security system that included running people through tree shredders, sectarian violence is the default setting in the Middle East.
Victims of a “religion” that glorifies hatred and death, internecine violence down to the clan and family level is standard practice and has been for centuries.
On the whole, it is preferable that they kill each other, directing their aggression inwardly.
Left to their own devices, Muslims will never evolve a civil society recognizable to westerners. Order in Islamic societies has always had to be imposed and has never bubbled up from institutions such as “town hall meetings”. It is an inevitable product of male dominated, “honor” based cultures.
Given enough time, the only answer is a radical culling of the more virulent carriers of what appears to be more a disease than anything else.
Trying to instill democracy in these societies is futile and would require that the amoral familial origins of the “honor” based family/clan structure be eradicated as was done in the northern British Isles. The Middle East is a rather more daunting task than that was.
I say this as a member by lineage of those UK cultures and someone at odds with a tradition that views the Battle of Culloden as a “tragedy” rather than a necessary step in the inevitable process of making modern citizens.
It is ironic that the echoes of the values of those extinct Anglo-Celt cultures now provide the US with its spine stiffening core resolve. It is also ironic that those values have been embraced by so many American Citizens leading to such seeming anomalies as a friend of mine, a self described Viet-American Redneck.
BTW, the term “Redneck” comes from the Scots border and is a very old descriptive usage.
Pete’s list of acceptable losses:
_______ * 11 July 2006 – 200 die and 700 injured in the bombing of rush-hour trains in Mumbai (Bombay), India.
_______ * 2 May 2006 – 35 Hindus die in attacks by Pakistan based Islamic rebels in Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir.
______* 7 March 2006 – 15 Hindus were killed in Hindu holy city of Varanasi attack by Islamic terrorists.
_______* 9 November 2005 – 2005 Amman bombings, over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on Hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.
_______* 23 July 2005 – Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, kill at least 64 people.
_______* 7 July 2005 – Multiple bombings in London Underground, 53 dead killed by four suicide bombers, 200 injured.
_______* 4 February 2005 – Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
_______* 11 March 2004 – Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
_______* 16 May 2004- Casablanca Attacks – 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.
_______ * 12 October 2002 – Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.
_______ * 24 September 2002 – Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.
_______* 7 May 2002 – Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured
_______* 9 March 2002 – Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured
_______* 3 March 2002 – Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
_______* 11 September 2001 – 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.
_______* 13 October 2000 – USS Cole bombing from a small boat by suicide bombers. Seventeen sailors were killed and 39 were injured.
_______* 7 August 1998 – Embassy bombing in Tanzania and Kenya. 225 dead. 4000+ injured
_______* 25 June 1996 – Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
_______* 26 February 1993 – First World Trade Center bombing. 6 killed.
_______* 18 April 1983 – Embassy in Lebanon bombed. 63 killed.
And, to add to petey’s list, here is a link to “profiling”.
The Evils of Profiling. Not!
Elections carried out under the auspices of an invading/occupying power will always be seen as illegitimate, unfortunately.
Sure, just like they were “seen as illegitimate” in Germany, Italy and Japan after WW2, right? It would be nice if the anti-war crowd would crack a history text every once in awhile, then they could more accurately regale us sweeping statements.
_”So, personal attacks without substance are de rigeur here? How very manly.”_
_Absolutely. It’s what we baby-killing redneck bloodthirsty neocon Zionists do for fun. Don’t like it? Please be bored and bothered somewhere else._
Oh well, whatever bakes your cake I guess. It beats the hell out of having a reality based argument or a position that can be defended in some quarters.
That’s what I get for posing questions that don’t make your heros look like intellectual giants I guess.
The search continues….
“That’s what I get for posing questions that don’t make your heros look like intellectual giants I guess.”
…and YOUR heroes would be, who, exactly? The corrupt Kofi Annan? Sheik Nasrallah? The dear departed Yassir? George Galloway? Cindy (I never had a child I couldn’t pimp politcally) Sheehan?
Heroes:
Vaclav Havel
Abraham Lincoln
George Washington
Fr. Maximilian Kolbe
Oscar Schindler
People of conscience who did the right thing in difficult times. And yes, sometimes had to go to war to do it. It remains to be seen what our latest crop of politicians will wind up as, but I’m betting that history will show GWB as something a little more than a “freezer rat.” (Interesting analogy, by the way.) He won’t be remembered as a “hero”, but certainly won’t be categorized as poorly as you seem to think. And the years definitely won’t be kind at all to Kerry, Clinton, Murtha and their ilk…scumbags all.
I’m reminded of that saying: Metaphysics – I’ll see it when I believe it.
The force of WILL displayed is incredible. The belief that Bush is bad-evil-theworstever existed before he ever took the oath of office. The sore feelings that Bush was better at stealing an election than Gore was taken up by people who are professionals when it comes to the ultimate moral authority… outrage. Gore started out by displaying a petulant attitude and it’s never let up.
And this was in 2000. When there was a limit to the damage that any president could do. The difference between a Dem status quo and a Rep status quo resembled the libertarian refrain “The Democrats and their clones the Republicans.”
Before 9-11. Before the invasion of Afghanistan. Before the build up to the invasion of Iraq. Before any cowboy manners could offend any sophisticated Euro. Before all that.
When it comes to the belief that Bush (and anyone close to him) is the WORST PRESIDENT EVER, cause and effect are backwards. Since the belief existed before any possibility of evidence… I have to, logically, rationally, MUST question the belief.
And here’s a clue… popularity != reputation.
Getting to be prom queen of the world is lame if everyone knows you’re a slut.
There’s one thing we can all be grateful about: The war in Iraq has resulted in very few US casualties. Compared to other wars, Iraq war is warlite.