Ukraine War, Vietnam War
Two different countries, two different wars, two different times. And yet I keep thinking of comparisons and even parallels. Here are some of my thoughts.
(1) The US parties have switched sides since Vietnam days. At the end of the Vietnam War, it was the GOP – some members of the GOP, anyway, such as President Ford – who wanted to continue war aid for the ARVN. It was the Democrats who had originally escalated our military involvement there during the 1960s, but it was Democrats who led the drive to reduce the funding in the 1970s to the point where North Vietnam knew it could easily win. Many Republicans joined that effort, as well. You can read some of the history of the endgame in Vietnam here, but I’ll excerpt a small bit:
In January of 1973, President Richard Nixon approved the Paris Peace Accords negotiated by Henry Kissinger, which implemented an immediate cease-fire in Vietnam and called for the complete withdrawal of American troops within sixty days. Two months later, Nixon met with South Vietnamese President Thieu and secretly promised him a “severe retaliation” against North Vietnam should they break the cease-fire. Around the same time, Congress began to express outrage at the secret illegal bombings of Cambodia carried out at Nixon’s behest. Accordingly, on June 19, 1973 Congress passed the Case-Church Amendment, which called for a halt to all military activities in Southeast Asia by August 15, thereby ending twelve years of direct U.S. military involvement in the region.
In the fall of 1974, Nixon resigned under the pressure of the Watergate scandal and was succeeded by Gerald Ford. Congress cut funding to South Vietnam for the upcoming fiscal year from a proposed 1.26 billion to 700 million dollars. These two events prompted Hanoi to make an all-out effort to conquer the South. As the North Vietnamese Communist Party Secretary Le Duan observed in December 1974: “The Americans have withdrawn…this is what marks the opportune moment.”
The NVA drew up a two-year plan for the “liberation” of South Vietnam. Owing to South Vietnam’s weakened state, this would only take fifty-five days. The drastic reduction of American aid to South Vietnam caused a sharp decline in morale, as well as an increase in governmental corruption and a crackdown on domestic political dissent. The South Vietnamese army was severely under-funded, greatly outnumbered, and lacked the support of the American allies with whom they were accustomed to fighting.
The NVA began its final assault in March of 1975 in the Central Highlands. … The war officially concluded on April 30, as Saigon fell to North Vietnam and the last American personnel were evacuated.
(2) In both cases, war supporters subscribe to a domino theory – with Vietnam it involved the Far East, with Ukraine it involves the Eastern European countries that had formerly been part of the USSR, and even perhaps some portions of Western Europe. Zelensky indicated in his talk with Trump and Vance that his own domino theory involves Putin coming to US shores.
(3) One huge difference – in Vietnam, the US had expended not just US treasure but US blood. Quite a lot of it.
(4) The Vietnam hot war had gone on much longer than three years. Of course, that’s true of Russia and Ukraine, too, but until the Russian invasion in 2022 it had gone on at a much lower level.
(5) Unlike Ukraine and Russia, the Vietnam War involved parties that were not so lopsided in terms of population – unless you count the backing of China. And you should count the backing of China.
(6) Fifty years after the end of the Vietnam War we’re still arguing about whether the South could have won if we had continued with a larger amount of aid. A similar argument goes on with Ukraine now and it goes like this: does Ukraine have any chance of winning in the sense of regaining its lost territory, with US aid? Those who want to cut off military aid say no; many of those who want to continue it say yes.
(7) The Vietnam War so wearied the US that it subsequently caused many Americans to be very very wary of our own troops fighting someone else’s war, especially if that war lasts a long time. The Gulf War was short; the Iraq and Afghan wars were long, and ended with our disastrous withdrawals. The left campaigned against those last two wars from the start by comparing them to Vietnam.
(8) The Ukraine War seems to have coincided with a growing US reluctance to fund foreign wars. There’s a relatively small faction on the right among those who want to pull the plug on Ukraine who also would dearly love to do the same to Israel. Otherwise it’s the left, for the most part, who have turned on Israel.
No 4. Actually the Vietnam War started way before US involvement. It started under the French
I think for the past 9 years the Democrats (which is really the Left as there are no more moderate Ds) have it dug into their souls to be against anything Trump is for. It has nothing to do with anything else. Bring Trump, and now the GOP, down at any cost. Peace, war, economics, etc are all secondary.
physics:
That’s also the case. But they supported the Ukraine war heavily before Trump was involved.
I am praying that the betrayal of South Viet Nam by Democrats in congress in 1973 is not repeated in Ukraine by Republicans in 2025. Spite and fury against FJB benefiting Russian aggression in Europe.
There’s a lot to unpack in the parallels to Vietnam, but the Cold War element is completely missing, as well as the military power of the Soviet Union, and the “domino theory” is just not very plausible.
According to SIPRI Russia’s 2023 military spending was $126 billion USD. For this year the estimate I’m seeing is about $145 billion. The last year of the Soviet Union was $256 billion in 2023 dollars.
In 1985 the Soviet Union had 4.9 million active military personnel (not counting the Warsaw Pact satellites, just USSR), in 2024 Russia had 1.1 million. North Korea has a larger active military than Russia.
Russia would have a very long way to go just to get back to the power it had as the Soviet Union; but with their demographic challenges it will simply not happen.
Like comparing Turkey to the Ottoman Empire…
Shirehome:
Ho fought against the Japaneese (1944) before the French returned to Indochina.
https://archive.org/details/osshochiminhunex0000bart
Niketas:
And the North Koreans aren’t much to write home about. Brave, fierce, but short lived in Ukraine. At least so far. So just looking at numbers ….
The lesson I learned from Viet Nam is that there’s no helping a nation to freedom if the majority don’t want to fight for freedom. Enter George Witless Bush to declare that the only way to eliminate Islamic terrorism is with “democracy”. What an idiot! The Ukraine war is completely different. Clinton made promises to Russia that were not kept by succeeding Presidents. TAFO. Trust America and Find Out.
Smoot-Hawley. Apparently the lesson wasn’t learned.