Trump’s wild and crazy Gaza proposal
Did you see it coming? I did’t see it coming. The “it” I’m talking about is, of course, Trump’s announcement yesterday that the US plans to take over Gaza, evacuate its people to some Arab country or countries, and rebuild it into a fabulous place. This is not only a total surprise, but it’s especially a surprise from Trump, given his devotion to the US not getting all that involved abroad.
So, what gives? The consensus on the right – a consensus I share – is that it’s Trump thinking so far outside the box that he’s on another planet. Why would he do that? In order to point out some truths. These are those truths:
– There is no 2-state solution possible.
– Gaza is physically a wasteland and must be rebuilt by someone.
– The Gazans are really part of the Arab world and not a separate entity.
– The Gazans are incapable of having a peaceful state alongside their neighbor – actually, neighbors, because neither Egypt nor Jordan want any part of them. Nor does anyone else on earth.
– The UN has been worse than useless and is actually part of the problem.
– If the Gazans go back to Gaza there will be an endless cycle of war.
What to do? I haven’t a clue. But I do think that Trump’s goal is to get a conversation going in which at least some people around the world acknowledge those hard truths and stop pretending otherwise. We’ll see what happens.
Meanwhile, of course, the usual suspects are very very very upset, as you can see by the world’s condemnation of Trump’s proposal. Apparently they’d rather keep the Palesinians as perpetual refugees and perpetual Jew-murderers, in a wasteland of ruin.
Here’s what Alan Dershowitz had to say last night about it:
Israel/Palestine is an exceptionally difficult problem and has been for my entire lifetime. No matter how much I’ve thought about it, I’ve never come up with a solution. Trump’s “we’ll take over Gaza and rebuild it while relocating the Gazans” seems stark raving mad at first. But again, I remind myself that’s it’s one of those wild opening bids that may end up merely sparking Egypt and Jordan and some other Arab nations to help deal with the intractable problem of Gaza/Hamas and not just kick the can down the road as before, business as usual.
It’s his opening move. Lets wait and see where it goes.
As neo said, these theatrics may force people to see the truth most are blind to–that the Arab world wants to keep the “poor Palestinian refugees” where they are and as they are as a means of propaganda and secondly, that the Arab world doesn’t want any part of the “Palestinians” in their countries, as they will inevitably cause trouble. As long as this doesn’t ultimately lead to the US taking them in, I have no problem with it.
Are you not entertained?
–“GLADIATOR | “Are You Not Entertained” Clip ”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD0XIowNAG8
I’m somewhat reminded of Eisenhower’s dictum — if I have a problem I can’t solve I make it bigger and the solution comes to light very quickly — or words to that effect. Make it bigger. Widen it out. See the surrounding constraints for the obstacles they are.
Convincing Egypt and/or Jordan to take the Gazans in will be difficult. If I remember correctly, it didn’t go too well last time Jordan took in some Palastinians. But who knows? Certainly a lot more seems at least possible with Trump doing Trump things. He tends to warp reality by merely voicing ideas that at first glance may seem crazy, but they encourage people to think about unconsidered possibilities.
When I got up this morning, checked Feedly, my news aggregator, and saw this story, I felt like I had slipped into an alternate timeline of history.
I hate it when that happens.
If you aim to do the impossible you can’t do what everyone thinks you should do. Hotels, casinos, golf courses owned and built by Arabs would give Israel a good neighbor. Crazy? Probably, Oslo and terrorism isn’t working for anyone so why not?
In the various dour reactions to Trump’s necessarily vague proposal, I’m also reminded of my Dad’s IBM desktop plaque: Think.
@Nonapod:If I remember correctly, it didn’t go too well last time Jordan took in some Palastinians.
Jordan has millions of them right now, has had them for decades. They didn’t do anything like Oct 7 in Jordan. We’re not hearing a peep out of them. What is not going well, from the perspective of terrorism?
I don’t know how well or badly those Palestinians in Jordan are treated, according to UNRWA only 18% of Palestinian refugees in Jordan even live in the camps.
I saw some photographs of the Gaza beachfront, pre-0ct 7, and it looked to my Floridian childhood eyes like prime real estate next to the pier in Daytona Beach.
Are you not entertained? Ha! That’s not exactly a compliment.
I suspect that most reasonable “Palestinians” have long since left Gaza and the “West Bank.” They now live in the US and Europe, and other parts of the Middle East — including Israel.
If the residents of Gaza had REALLY wanted “peace,” they could’ve long ago gotten it and built one heck of a resort on the Mediterranean. All they want to do is kill Jews and obliterate Israel.
If the Gazan Palestinians can be separated into smaller groups, it’s possible they’ll lose some of their unifying Jew-hate when other issues confront them. And they’ll be easier to control.
Borders have two sides. Inside looking out and outside looking in. The smaller the area, the greater the ratio of border to area, which gives, say, the Egyptians greater and faster access to any issues or potential issues within.
And certainly, the storied infiltration by Mossad will be part of the program.
I am entertained – and it’s spectacular.
Trump is very good at not settling for half-assed solutions. Neo’s litany above is exactly right, and any “solution” other than Trump’s is just warmed over crap that hasn’t worked in the past. That said, SHIREHOME is right of course. This is just setting the table properly, but I give Trump credit. I believe the end game is to fundamentally change something that hasn’t changed in over 70 years.
Ha! Now I listen to Dershowitz and hear him saying “Think!”. Jumped the gun, by golly.
I’m also reminded of my Dad’s IBM desktop plaque: Think.
Which reminds me of its spinoff: Thimk.
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0513/21/thimk-dec-1958-mad-imitation-magazine_1_659109056c202bd9958c16181ad70be4.jpg
yep
https://x.com/AcrossTheBay/status/1887185059846754597
is it ‘an open air prison’ or not,
now I don’t trust mr witkoff, because his judgement is very gullible,
It was pleasing to see the President call out Caroline Glick for praise in his presser with Bibi last night. She is already making a difference, which for those who follow her work isn’t surprising in the least. Rock on, woman!
Okay, let’s take Trump’s idea a bit further. More practical, or more outside the box?
Gaza’s current population is an estimated 2.1 million (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1422981/gaza-total-population/).
As of January 1, 2025, the population of Nigeria is estimated to be approximately 232 million (https://countrymeters.info/en/Nigeria).
About half of Nigeria’s population is Muslim, and they’re concentrated in the northern part of the country. Most of them currently live under Sharia law, which would make Gazans happy.
Nigeria is already the world’s sixth most populous country, and their growth rate is among the world’s highest. They could easily absorb all the Gazans, who might swamp a smaller country like Jordan.
Meanwhile, Trump could turn Gaza city and beach into a Mediterranean resort … and a US territory with yuuuge army, airforce, and naval bases. For once, we’d have true neocolonialism. The logistics of defending Israel would be greatly simplified, and the resort city would make it all profitable. Too much winning.
Trump is the first US President to openly admit that the “peace process” resulting an a two-state solution will never work. Previous Presidents may have admitted that it hasn’t worked yet, but have–at least in public–held out the hope that it will eventually work.
It will be interesting to see where this wild idea goes, if it does. Egypt really kept its thumb on Gaza when it was in charge there. Of course, it also treated Gaza residents badly. If the UAE, for instance, could be brought to look at building a new Gaza as a business opportunity, or if Egypt did so, something might be possible. A Muslim power could suppress radical Islamists without the international uproar caused when Jews or theoretically Christian powers do so.
Trump’s idea is crazy but I think it’s less crazy than expecting this problem to be solved by repeating the same mistakes of the last 70 years. I think more countries need to be involved in accepting some refugees from Gaza, preferably some countries that are further away from Israel than Egypt and Jordan. How about Mauritania, Morocco or Indonesia? The Gazans need to be in a place where they can spend their time thinking of something else besides plotting their next attack on Israel.
The “palestinian” issue is not intractable; it is not even a difficult problem. It is merely that nobody was willing to do what is required to remedy it. It was started by the USSR, which used Arafat and his supporters as a tool against the western allies. After the USSR was dissoved, the western allies continued to treat the palestinians like they were still supported by the USSR, and the palestinians got it into their heads that they were insulated from attack just as they had been when the USSR was extant. It’s all been a sham and a fool’s game. The solution to the problem is simply to eliminate the problem; Trump just made that crystal clear. There will no longer be “palestinians.” The idiot, self-destructive “palestinians” set the stage for this resolution by stupidly attacking Israel on October 7, 2023. They gave Israel and by extension, the world permission to eliminate them. Once removed from their nesting/breeding place, they will find their political influence as dispersed as their physical location. Problem solved.
Steve (retired/recovering lawyer):
Of course it’s not intractable, if one is willing to go draconian. But that isn’t the way the western world works anymore.
Cornflower, not Nigeria. Our “step daughter” lives there so I follow the news from there. There’s a civil war going on in the Eastern part of the country between the Christians and the Muslims, surprise. The Muslims attack a village, kill the men, steal the women and girls as sex slaves, and burn down the church. You can find photos of heavily armed soldiers guarding churches.
Ultimately, the problem is Islam. Samuel P. Huntington called it Islam’s bloody borders and should have added its bloody interior as well.
Haven’t read it yet but am about to: Lee Smith, TabletMag, “The End of Palestine”.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/end-of-palestine
Turn it into a ‘Dubai on the Med’ & have the Arabs finance the renovation.
I think this proposal exposes the Arab world’s duplicity when dealing with “Palestinians”.
When Jordan, Egypt and even the Saudi’s try and deflect on reasons why resettling Gazans in their countries, it will be harder for the West to keep the blame on Israel for the intractable nature of the problem. The West always demands it’s Israel that makes the concessions.
President Trump made it clear in his press conference (if I heard him correctly) that Israel will be bystanders in this effort. The US will play the lead, but it will be the gulf states that make it happen.
I was listening to a former IDF soldier on the issue and he said Israel doesn’t want Americans to soldier the burden of security. But I don’t think Trump sees the IDF with a role. It will be Gulf states security along with European countries.
Part of the key to this is sanctions strangling the Iranian economy. Is that possible? Lowering oil prices would have a similar effect. How long will it take for US energy production to materially affect oil prices? o
Can this work? History would say no way– but who thought the Abraham Accords possible? It does take some of the pressure off Israel in the short term.
Thanks for that The End of ‘Palestine’ link, sdferr.
Have always thought that Palestinians were all the same, and that none should be in Israel. West Bank and Gaza belong to Israel as far as I am concerned.
It seems that report after report considers Gaza Palestinians different from West Bank Palestinians – so I will temporarily start looking at the West Bank Palestinians a tad differently.
With Iran constantly trying to have the Jordan King overthrown – is it wise to bring in the Gaza Palestinians to mix in with apparently the 2/3rds of Jordan’s population that is Jordanian (?) Palestinian?
Anyway…
An interesting side-effect — or maybe primary — to Trump’s Gaza play is that it lets Israelis and the Jews off the hook for apartheid and genocide.
Sure, the UN world can condemn the tiny minority of Israelis and Jews in such an Orwellian manner.
But it’s going to be a harder sell, not that it won’t be tried, against the United States.
We mostly aren’t Jews and we’ve got a much bigger stick. With Trump in office the world knows we have that stick and will use it.
huxley:
Took a Japanese Police martial arts course—for a couple of years around 1970-1973 (?) in Miami. At that time the instructor was one of the few Americans trained in Japan in their Police academy course on it. Forget the name but may have been Taiho-jutsu – and a secondary course in Keibo-soho (if I recall correctly). Still carry that 2’ long by a heavy 1” thick ‘Stick’ in my truck.
Shins, knees, elbows, fingers & hands were primary targets for that short baton. No need for a big club, just quick and darting strikes with shorty. President Trump seems to be using the quick and darting strikes with shorty method…
Richard Aubrey — “If the Gazan Palestinians can be separated into smaller groups, it’s possible they’ll lose some of their unifying Jew-hate when other issues confront them. And they’ll be easier to control.”
THIS, Yes! As I wrote yesterday, split up this anti-Jew cult!
Spread them out, dilute and detox!!
Since even their children’s textbooks teach them to hate Jews and Israel, it will take time. But what’s a good alternative???
Kate — “A Muslim power could suppress radical Islamists without the international uproar caused when Jews or theoretically Christian powers do so.”
Excellent point!
Karmi
West Bank Palestinians are more likely to either have either lived or traveled outside the West Bank, or to have contacts outside. I have known a Palestinian Christian family since I was a teenager. The paterfamilias told his children, before the Six Day War, to get out of the West Bank. He told them that as Christians they would never be promoted as long as there was a Muslim competing for the job. As a result a number of his children had moved to the US before the Six Day War, several of whom got postgraduate STEM degrees. One of his grandsons got a STEM doctorate in the US, but moved back to the West Bank after 30 years in the US.
At the same time, polls indicate that after October 7, there was higher support for Hamas and its war aims in the West Bank than there was in Gaza. Having your dwelling destroyed in the war may have had an influence in that difference of opinion. 🙂
Similarly, it is not difficult to find videos of West Bank inhabitants who are just as implacably opposed to Israel as Hamas is.
I know next to nothing about the ME. I’ve never been there and paid little attention until 9/11 happened.
We need people who are experts on the ME, Islam, and the Muslim Brotherhood. People who know the layout, customs, likes and dislikes, habits, grudges, and history of the ME. It’s a complex place with a lot of things that have happened there in just the last 110 years.
Maybe only 10% of Muslims are fundies like the Muslim Brotherhood. That’s 150 million people – a LOT. Until those Muslims give up their dreams of rebuilding the Ottoman Empire and converting/killing all the infidels, I see little chance for lasting peace.
I don’t think we in the West talk about this issue of the fundamentalist Muslims enough. It’s a fact that we want to brush over because it’s so discouraging and maybe hard to accept. We keep hoping they’ll change their minds. But we have 20 years of military and diplomacy operations in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan that have not changed many fundamentalist Muslim minds.
Appealing to their financial and overall well-being doesn’t seem to move them much. That’s what Trump is appealing to. Play ball with us and we’ll improve your lives. In the West that’s a pitch that people understand. The Islamic jihadis, not so much.
But who knows? The Saudis (The home of Wahhabism.) are becoming more liberal. Maybe they could take the lead in building new concepts of peace and cooperation in the ME. Good luck to Trump and Netanyahu in figuring it out.
I think it’s worth reading the full transcript of Trump’s remarks. In context, his proposals for Gaza don’t seem quite so crazy. Over and over, he talks about how Gaza has been an unlucky place. For me, that’s the crazy part, not his ideas for reconstruction.
Anyway, here’s a link:
https://rollcall.com/factbase/trump/transcript/donald-trump-press-conference-joint-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-february-4-2025/
I suggest people read up on the history in the last 100 years between Jordan and the Palestinians / PLO before demanding that Jordan takes them in.
And remember, the Jordanian King is considered the guardian or some such title of the Temple Mount. The man is supposedly a descendant of Mohammed.
Sending the Palestinians to Lebanon would likely hasten the death of the Christian political influence in that country.
The Israel Consul General indicates there are three countries being considered for relocation– Morocco, Somalia and a third area adjacent to Somalia. Which makes more sense since it is unlikely Egypt or Jordan or the Saudis would consider housing Gazans– given the likely de-stabilization they would have on those host countries.
I do think if this is going to have any chance, Israel needs to be a bystander.
Breaking New Details of Trump’s Gaza Relocation Plan Revealed by Israeli Consul General
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjcNXemlHRE
A little bit of support in a sea of outrage over Gaza.
‘Great day’: Rowan Dean ‘thrilled’ with Donald Trump’s plan to take over Gaza Strip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0hoJSBZDDc
Niketas:
When Jordan welcomed the newer Palestinians they tried to overthrow the government. Look up Black September.
@neo: Thanks for the reminder about Black September. They seem to be handling their Palestinian population better, 55 years on.
neo’s response to Steve is relevant; Of course it’s not intractable, if one is willing to go draconian. But that isn’t the way the western world works anymore.
Eventually reality will force the West to readopt a draconian response because Islam will force it upon us, as its theological precepts from which its theological imperatives arise, allow for no other path forward.
Former Prime Minister of Israel Golda Meir alluded to this; ” “We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.”
Temporary lulls aside, Islam will continue to force us to kill its children for it is commanded by Allah to convert or kill our children.
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.” Winston Churchill
Wait….Greenland is virtually empty of people…hmmm
I agree entirely with your thinking. Something must be done, and this gets a conversation going on another plane.
Jon baker on February 5, 2025 at 7:45 pm said:
“And remember, the Jordanian King is considered the guardian or some such title of the Temple Mount. The man is supposedly a descendant of Mohammed.”
Well, Western scholarship over the last 10+ years has suggested that the MHMD references* in the inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock, relating to “the praised one” or “the annointed one”, actually refers to Jesus, not Mohammed. The argument is that the Arabs living and controlling the rea were really Christians of one variety or another, also shown by the impressions of a cross on some of the coins from that era (around 690 AD).
This of course calls into question the historical existence of Mohammed, so perhaps the Jordanian King is not a descendent after all. But he is also probably not a descendent of Jesus, either, except in the context that all mankind are claimed as His descendents.
*[=all consonants without vowels, so open to multiple interpretations]
RigelDog on February 5, 2025 at 11:05 pm said:
“Wait….Greenland is virtually empty of people…hmmm”
Well, in response to a call for out of the box thinking, maybe we could float an iceberg into the Mediterranean and put the Gazans on it as part of a beachfront resort build out.
Perhaps Kate or others can comment on this fantasy idea I had:
Given how poorly the Christian Egyptian Copts are treated by the local Muslims, I had the thought that those 8 million (?) people could be relocated into the Sinai or into Gaza, with Gazans taking over their housing in Eygpt. The Bedouins in N Sinai would have to be accommodated somehow if it went that way? And Egypt does not want the Gazans, either, so maybe that part would not work. But with the Trump idea, maybe the Copts could be brought into Gaza to do the rebuilding, then move there as more housing is available. I also understand the Copts, although Christian, are not real fans of the Israelis, either. But they are not terrorist jihadis, either. I did suggest it as a fantasy.
I’m “transcribing” a lot of the video mostly as an aide-mémoire for myself:
Dershowitz has some good points, but the main one is that it’s time to think of something different than the old, unworkable status quo, and Trump’s idea is getting that discussion going.
Plus, historically, even as recently as WWII, forcibly moving and replacing populations has long-established precedent, and it was a good thing for world peace. (Well, up to a point; Russians taking Konigsberg is still a problem.)
He also reminds us that Trump did “what can’t be done” when he moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem, and other things in his first term.
Not celebrating everything Trump does, but not denying credit for what he has done, especially to help Israel.
Giving Trump an E for effort and an A for action.
Reminds us that some people always sacrifice for peace, and houses (where you live) is not as important as raising your children in peace (I think he imputes more rationality to Gazans than they have exhibited).
Reviews Obama’s Iran deal — they were lying — and praises Trump for getting out of that deal. Both promised that Iran would not get the bomb, but Obama was lying, and Trump is not.
Dersh says he had been friends with the Obamas for many years, and he regrets the break between them (IMO, obviously, he was being used as cover, “some of my best friends are Jews” style).
“We can’t predict what will happen” if America takes control; no one really supports any other plan to put Fatah, Jordan, or Egypt in charge.
He wants to give Trump’s proposal a chance, although he still wants to think about it, and appreciates the fresh new idea.
I liked the Jewish proverb he cited: Don’t make a decision while standing on one leg. IOW, sit down and consider the issue.
By the end, he sounds like a Trump bro!
We can be pretty sure that Dersh is NOT getting grants from USAID.
All very well said by Elliot Kaufman.
Trump’s Plan to Free the Palestinians.
https://archive.md/Nqoft
“In a press conference following his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore, President Donald Trump applauded North Korea’s “great beaches” and said they would be a great location for condos and hotels.”
Someone needs to do that meme with the dude holding the arm of one girl while looking back at a different one. Trump’s the dude, of course. North Korea is the girl on his arm and Gaza is the hot new one.
@Steve (retired/recovering lawyer)
Agreed there.
No it wasn’t. At best the “Palestinian” label was started by the USSR and its allies like the aforementioned, or at least popularized. But the problem of anti-Jewish, genocidally totalitarian Arab ethnonationalism in the area well predates the Soviets, and first metastasized in the 1920s under the likes of Amin al-Husseini, who were clients of Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, not the Soviets (who funded parallel groups but had little traction).
This is something I think trying to simplify things to being “just another USSR plot” fails, especially when you see how the Balestinians like Hamas, PIJ, and Fatah use and re-use the icons and labels of the previous age like the Sheikh Qassem (one of al-Husseini’s allies) and rhetoric.
Arafat etc. al. were pawns of the Soviets, but they were willing pawns of it with agendas that well predated sizable Soviet influence. And even pawns can make moves of their own.
Not really. The IDF pursued a similar policy of trying to bleed out the paramilitaries going back to the late 1940s, if not the 1930s back before it was teh IDF proper. Soviet influence helped make things worse but it didn’t create this problem.
Agreed there.
And that gets screamed from the rooftops by “Balestinian” nationalists and their patrons like Iran and Qatar.
Even if that worked in theory and the Israelis and others were prepared to accept what was needed, it didn’t work before. Hence things like the Beirut era of the BLO/PLO that helped kick start a new round of Lebanese Civil Wars.
Their communities do need a healthy amount of denazification and possibly relocation, but that won’t be easy and there’s always the risk they will continue stirring shit up elsewhere (like in Kuwait). But just killing them all would not be tolerable. Nor should it be. We aren’t genocidal, they are. But when you have nearly a century of a group being under genocidal leadership it’s hard as hell to subdue or reform it in any kind of sustainable way.
And that was a problem well before the Soviets were, even if the Soviets helped evolve the problem into its current shape.
Apparently this is a day of Learning for humble hermit me.
Who are the Balestinians?
Further down – a quote by Anat Berko:
OK – time for AI!!!
DeepSeek – Does the letter ‘P’ exist in Arabic?
Guess the map makers didn’t know that…
“Palestine” was used by the Romans, derived from a Greek word found in Herodotus, “Palaistine”. May be related to the Philistines, Gaza was one of their cities if you remember your Bible. It’s not uncommon for names of peoples to be assigned by foreigners (exonymy): “German” is not a German word, “Welsh” is not a Welsh word, “China” and “Japan” are not found in the Chinese and Japanese languages.
I would never say I knew everything there is to know about the territories that have been called “Palestine”, but I do know that Westerners who visited that area in the nineteenth century (before Zionism) met both Jews and Arabs living there. Mark Twain’s “The Innocents Abroad” from 1869, for example (though he is rarely positive about either group).