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Hamas says no more hostages will be released until further notice — 53 Comments

  1. On the one hand — “Hostage Deal: Israel responds to Hamas ultimatum”: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/403715

    All families of the hostages were updated this evening following Hamas’ announcement. It was emphasized to the families that the State of Israel stands by the agreement in its entirety and views any breach of it with severity.

    And on the other hand — “PM Netanyahu: ‘Trump’s plan presents opportunities we haven’t even dreamed of’ “: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/403670

    We agreed that we must achieve all the goals of the war that we have set: the elimination of Hamas, the return of all our hostages, ensuring that Gaza will no longer pose a threat to Israel, the return of all the residents in the north and the south to their homes, and of course, to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.

    It’s a very short walk to the resumption of the war.

  2. I will acknowledge occasionally reverting to tee-age boy mentality.

    That teenager wishes Israel would begin executing the Palestinian prisoners with machine guns until hostages are released.

    And, televise it.

  3. Israel should parade their prisoners before the cameras and douse them with pigs blood, instantly rendering them unclean
    and by Allah’s declaration in the ‘sacred’ Qur’an, now barred entrance to paradise. Then announce that until every Israeli is returned, they will remain imprisoned in an unclean state.
    It would also be ‘instructive’ to announce a new policy that, from now on every captured jihadist will upon imprisonment be immediately rendered unclean and with pork the only meat served prisoners.

    You gain leverage over a mortal enemy by attaching to the actions to be deterred consequences that for the enemy are intolerable. To do that, consequences must place at risk what the enemy values…

  4. The only regret is that Israel didn’t cancel it first, based on the released hostages being paraded through crowds of Hamasniks. That the agreement would collapse was a foregone conclusion. This allows the MSM and UN types to blame Israel.

  5. Mike Plaiss:

    They might call Trump’s bluff. Then they kill all the hostages and blame Israel.

    I don’t have a better solution than Trump’s, though. Once the hostages were taken, there was no good solution and really no acceptable solution.

    My guess is that Trump is trying to pressure Iran with this threat, to get them to tell Hamas to cooperate, because Israel or the US might retaliate against Iran.

  6. “They might call Trump’s bluff. Then they kill all the hostages and blame Israel.”

    That would greenlight Israel to take the gloves off.

  7. fullmoon:

    Yes. But then the hostages die. I don’t think most Israelis would approve. Netanyahu might not be willing to take the gloves off while there are still living hostages.

  8. Mike Plaiss quotes Trump:

    “If all the Gaza hostages aren’t returned by Saturday at 12 p.m., I would say cancel the ceasefire. Let all hell break loose; Israel can override it,” he said.

    What can Trump do to Hamas? Several more buildings destroyed in Gaza, when Gaza is already a lunar wasteland? Hamas has nothing left to lose.

    Like Neo says, Trump is bluffing. He might be able to kill some Hamas honchos hiding somewhere, with the assistance of Israeli intelligence.

    A bluff.

    I like Geoffrey Brittain’s idea of contaminating Muslim prisoners w pork products. Pershing did something similar in the Philipines a century ago. Unfortunately, pork is also forbidden for Jews, which would create a problem for the IDF applying a pork policy for Muslim prisoners.

  9. This link from sdferr had mostly comments from people who want Gaza bombed to ruins and Hamas obliterated, but there was one interesting observation: “Hostages Families Headquarters, which doesn’t actually represent the hostages families, and only represents the typical leftist elitist, can be quiet and go away. No one wants to hear from them. Ben Gvir is exactly correct.”

    In the mass of USAID revelations, there may be a connection that bears out his claims.
    Does anyone here know the credentials for HFH?

    In re Trump’s statement: IMO he is signaling that the US will not impede any action that Israel takes, unlike the Biden Inc. administration.

  10. “Hamas has nothing left to lose. ”

    Hamas has plenty left to lose. It’s not about the buildings, it’s about the organization. I’m sure Israel knows where they are. If they kill the hostages, they are dead men walking.

  11. Jimmy
    Hamas has plenty left to lose. It’s not about the buildings, it’s about the organization. I’m sure Israel knows where they are. If they kill the hostages, they are dead men walking.

    Let us hope Israel knows their locations. I have my doubts about Israel knowing the locations of Hamas honchos. After all, Sinwar was not killed in an operation that deliberately targeted him. Sinwar’s death was a case of chance favoring the prepared mind.

  12. Iran has a lot left to lose. I think Trump is speaking to Iran’s leaders.

    –neo

    I care about the hostages, but the real game for Israel and the US is Iran.

    Israel’s recent reprisal to Iran’s mass missile and drone attacks took out Iran’s air defenses. Iran is effectively naked to a determined Israeli attack upon Iranian nuclear facilities and much of Iran’s economic infrastructure.

    I think we are heading towards a high noon moment.

    I predict Hamas will dribble out a few more hostages to play for time.

    This game has an ending.

  13. Neo:

    If the hostages die and Bibi is removed Israel hasn’t learned anything and willingly commits itself to more hostage taking. My sympathy really dries up then.

  14. Who feeds Gaza? Hamas? Does Hamas feed Gaza?

    Who supplies Gaza with potable water? Hamas? Does Hamas supply Gaza with potable water?

    Who supplies oil, natural gas, refined fuels and lubricants to Gaza? Hamas? Does Hamas supply these things?

    How about electricity generation, or modern communications systems? Hamas?

    Life in Gaza is fixing to become very harsh indeed, quite apart from bullets flying or bombs and missiles coursing target-bound.

  15. @ sdferr — Who feeds Gaza etc.

    It is well known that Israel is the only country in the history of the world that is FORCED by international pressure to supply their sworn enemies.

    The US and international aid to OUR sworn enemies is both corrupt and IMO treasonous.

    The US post-war Marshall plan was undertaken voluntarily, with excellent results; the US aid that propped up Soviet Russia for decades was corrupt and misguided (IMO), but not extorted.

    At least, I don’t think so — cue Artfldgr for some history there.

  16. …the only country in the history of the world that is FORCED by international pressure to supply their sworn enemies.

    Well, yes, for those who enjoy a bit of irony (or who get their rocks off on paradox)…but I would—forgive me—fine tune that a bit as follows:

    “…the only country in the history of the world that is FORCED by international pressure to supply those who have tried to destroy them and claim they will never give up their efforts to do so.
    – – – – – – –
    And so…a syllogism for the 21st century?

    – Hamas claims “WE LOVE DEATH”;
    – The Western Left-Liberal intellectual RESISTANCE claims “WE LOVE HAMAS”;
    – Ergo, the Western Left-Liberal intellectual RESISTANCE claims…

  17. The Israeli “hostages” are really prisoners of war, spedifically the war that hamas declared on Israel and more generally, the war that the irredentist moslem world has declared on everyone else. Although in more civilized times, warring parties participated in prisoner exchanges, that practice ended in the era of “world” wars. Hamas is using its unlawful retention of kidnapped civilians as a bargaining chip to advance its position in its war on Israel. Although the desire of most Israelis to see the safe release of its remaining POW’s is understandable, they fail to ask the question, “What then?” If they asked that question and faced the answer, viz., endless additional conflict from a further disadvantaged position, with high likelihood of more such events in the future, perhaps they would be more inclined to accept the loss of the current POW’s in exchange for prevention of more of the same in the future. I don’t know, and I don’t live in Israel, nor do I have a son or daughter in hamas’ cruel hands. A conundrum; a true “Gordian knot.” But I do recall how Alexander solved the puzzle posed by the original knot. Sometimes bold and decisive action is the only solution. Trump seems to have realized that and given Israel permission to swing its sword. But will the Israelis have the strength of will to do so?

  18. Steve (retired/recovering lawyer):

    I believe that under the law of war, civilians cannot be considered prisoners of war.

    Also, abandoning the hostages to their fate – death or permanent enslavement – goes against both Israeli culture and values, and the Jewish religion. Please watch this for an excellent discussion:

  19. ..under the law of war..

    That’s a problem with most Americans. Sometimes such thinking works, but most of the time it doesn’t. Seems Genghis Khan & Shaka kaSenzangakhona proved that rather simple fact long ago…

    Ignore the Laws of Mother Nature:

    ‘Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we were put in this world to rise above.’ – Rose Sayer

  20. Karmi:

    I believe you misunderstood my point.

    “Steve (retired/recovering lawyer)” had relabeled the hostages “prisoners of war.” That’s a legal term defined by the law of war, and I was simply pointing out it’s an incorrect term for civilian hostages. Hostages are kidnapped civilians.

    Of course, the laws of war are irrelevant to Hamas and to terrorists in general, who couldn’t care less about following them – unless, of course, the terrorists are the ones taken prisoner, at which point they want the people who are imprisoning them to follow those legal niceties that they themselves completely and utterly disregard.

  21. One can go theological the various surah from the koran and the hadiths or financial the cut off of the funds to aid that fund hamas or a mix of the two

    I noted how aid was behind the protests against netanyahu that made astroturf seem authentic on the eve of the Al aqsa flood

    In the 90s israel engaged in the Oslo delusion which stems from the notion territory surrendered equals piece well that figment has been around for 30 years plus rabin peres barak even sharon indulged in this fantasy

    This was true to the north in lebanon as to the west and the south in gaza

    Now an honest appraisal of israels past did they ever give land to the canaanites the phillistines et al for any period of time

    There is a refrain from the new zombie film ‘there is no discharge in the war ‘ which seems fitting

  22. Which it turns out is a 1903 poem from kipling, it is eerie the way it plays over the trailer about a zombie forever war

    Its alien to western ears but not in the middle east and north africa and increasingly in the ban lieus and othet enclaves in western europe the ones that aid and brethren agencies have helped foster

    Now did they do this knowingly the western ministries one tends to think yes, even if the result was not what was expected

    Now khalidi fils and netanyahu are rough contemporaries his ancestors as do the husseinis predate the 48 war, some go back to 1920 intifada

    Bibis grandfather was against the original resettlement schemes in madagascar and uganda

  23. As I read the Hebrew scriptures (in translation), it seems to me that the Jewish religion does not forbid the execution of murderers. It was the first in its area, perhaps in the world, to outlaw private vengeance, which is still part of the creed of Muhammad. The murderers in Israeli prisons have been tried and convicted at law. If murderers in Israel were executed after conviction, the vicious cycle of hostages for prisoners would end.

  24. As long as concessions are made to return hostages, hostages will be taken. The price for hostage taking must rule out hostage taking.

  25. Kate

    If murderers in Israel were executed after conviction, the vicious cycle of hostages for prisoners would end.

    Even in America, such man-made laws don’t work, and they definitely wouldn’t work for the Balestinians.

    Humans are natural born killers…human law can’t change that…and taking of Israeli hostages is basically one of the few powerful ‘Weapons’ that Balestinians have, IMHO.

  26. Dear Esteemed Neo:
    Of course, you are correct in that a POW by definition excludes civilians, but it is no less true that these Israeli civilians were taken “prisoner” in the “war” (jihad, if you prefer) of hamas against Israel. My point, perhaps obtusely was that in war, the rules of normal human intercourse are suspended, supplanted by the “rules of war.” We don’t go out and “arrest” members of the other side’s army; we kill them or make them “prisoners of war.” We don’t let them go free after they do their “time,” but only when hostilities cease. And so on. Even the Bible recognizes exceptions to the general rules of Jewish behavior during times of war. The fall of Jericho is frequently cited as an example. And more contemporaneously we have the Yom Kippur War. So, while it is true that a halachic analysis could support the position favoring returning all hostages, I’m not sure that ends the inquiry. But I am sure that the return of the hostages, without eliminating hamas’ desire for and ability to wage war will not be the end of hostilities. The problem arises when the opponents are relying on two entirely different and contradictory (i.e., Bible versus koran) sets of rules. Since the koran promotes killing of non-islamic peoples, trying to relate to moslems using Biblical principles is highly problematic.

  27. Kate-
    Jewish law allows execution of murderers, but Israeli law does not war criminals excepted- Eichmann). Israel could easily justify classifying many/most of its prisoners as war criminals, but not likely politically possible.

    Gringo-
    Jews are not allowed to eat pig, but contact with a pig does not have the implication of condemnation that it does in Islam. Jewish law and custom allows breaking of just about any law to serve a higher purpose- e.g., if the doctor says it’s imperative to eat on Yom Kippur for health reasons, it’s acceptable to eat. If the only food available is pork, it’s ok to go ahead and eat the pork.
    My understanding, at least.

  28. Islam’s holy book commands the killing of Jews. Hard to imagine the conditions for a permanent peace.

  29. Richard Aubrey

    Islam’s holy book commands the killing of Jews.

    I’ll double-check that – here are some AI briefs (they were longer) on that quote…

    DeepSeek- does Islam’s holy book commands the killing of Jews.

    No, Islam’s holy book, the Quran, does not command the killing of Jews or any other group of people simply because of their faith or ethnicity. The Quran emphasizes justice, compassion, and respect for all people, including Jews and Christians, who are often referred to as “People of the Book” (Ahl al-Kitab).

    There are verses in the Quran that address specific historical contexts, such as conflicts with certain groups during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). These verses are often misinterpreted or taken out of context.

    ChatGPT – does Islam’s holy book commands the killing of Jews.

    No, Islam’s holy book, the Quran, does not command the killing of Jews—or any group of people—simply based on their religious identity. The Quran promotes justice, mercy, and coexistence with people of all faiths. There are verses that discuss conflicts from historical contexts, particularly those involving early Muslim communities and certain Jewish tribes in Medina, but these are specific to particular events and not general commands for all Muslims.

    Islam acknowledges Jews as “People of the Book” and encourages peaceful relations with them.

    Grok 2 – does Islam’s holy book commands the killing of Jews.

    The Quran, the holy book of Islam, does contain verses that discuss conflict with various groups, including Jews, in historical contexts. However, interpreting these verses requires understanding both the historical circumstances in which they were revealed and the broader Islamic teachings on peace, justice, and coexistence.

    In summary, while the Quran does contain verses that discuss conflict with certain groups, including Jews, in historical contexts, these do not constitute a general command to kill Jews. Instead, Islamic teachings emphasize peace, justice, and the protection of all human life, advocating for coexistence and mutual respect among different religious communities.

  30. @Karmi, are you expecting any of the AIs to give you a straight answer about what the Quran says about killing Jews?

  31. @West Texas Intermediate Crude, Gringo:Jewish law and custom allows breaking of just about any law to serve a higher purpose- e.g., if the doctor says it’s imperative to eat on Yom Kippur for health reasons, it’s acceptable to eat. If the only food available is pork, it’s ok to go ahead and eat the pork.

    Islam also makes these exceptions:

    Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin – then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    Muslims are not culpable in eating or touching pork through ignorance or necessity.
    Muslims do not recognize that a non-Muslim can “defile” a Muslim by making them touch or eat pork against their will. They do not believe God gives non-Muslims a “cheat code” to punish Muslims.

  32. DeepSeek, ChatGPT and Grok 2 say …

    Instead of mealy-mouthed, politically correct spokesmen, we now have mealy-mouthed, politically correct robots. Big deal.

  33. @Karmi: You know how AI is trained, and that they are punished for giving the wrong kinds of answers, and you know who got to decide what a “wrong” answer is. If you want to believe what comes out of the magic box built by people who you know are deliberately skewing the answers the magic boxes give, knock yourself out.

  34. Incidentally, Jews are not required to redeem hostages or prisoners at any price, nor are they required to redeem them if by doing so they will encourage more hostage-taking…

  35. OK…Niketas Choniates can’t prove it.

    Some here probably know that I am not fond of any of the Abrahamic Religions.

    Abrahamic Religions depend upon interpretations. Example of such interpretations: there are over 45,000 Christian denominations and sects and such.

    Do I trust AIs more than Abrahamic Religions interpretations? I will definitely double-check many interpretations of Abrahamic Religions interpretations of other Abrahamic Religion’s followers. Internet searches & AI searches…

  36. @Dax: we now have mealy-mouthed, politically correct robots.

    For what it’s worth, I nearly always skip over any comment quoting a bot. If I want to know what the bot says, I can ask it myself, and if I want to get false information I have the whole Internet to choose from…. comments quoting bots are just value-subtracted, in my opinion.

  37. Perhaps (as I do not know) it is a necessary stupidity, yet be that as it may it is a most certainly tedious stupidity.

  38. Niketas:

    The video I posted in this comment contains a full discussion of Jewish laws on how to deal with freeing hostages. It’s a very complicated situation with many different approaches.

  39. @neo:It’s a very complicated situation with many different approaches.

    Yes, it is, which is why Jews are not religiously obligated to redeem hostages or captives in situations that would result in more hostages or captives being taken.

    Nonetheless, Chazal postulated the halakha that it is forbidden to pay an over- exorbitant amount for pidyon shivuim (redeeming hostages), as is stated in the Mishna: “They must not ransom captives for more than their value, for the good order of the world” (Gittin 45A). The main reason given for this enactment, in both the Gemara and the Rambam, is to not create an incentive for highwaymen and kidnappers to constantly seize Jewish prisoners, knowing that we are willing to pay any price to set them free. There is another way of explaining this enactment – not to pressure the public to donate funds beyond their capability. However, most of the Rishonim, including the Rif, Rosh, Rambam, and the Tur, say the principle reason is not to encourage our enemies to kidnap more Jews, and this is the ruling in the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah 252:4).

    Even in ancient times there were sages who understood perverse incentives, and that evil doesn’t get a cheat code to use against God’s people.

    I’m sure there are many Jews who have come to the conclusion that Hamas’ hostage-taking qualifies as a situation where redeeming the hostages is not obligated, and there are many of course who feel the opposite way.

  40. Niketas:

    Did you watch the video? As I said, it goes into the Jewish religious law on the subject in great detail.

    However, it is also the case that most of the Jews of Israel aren’t especially observant (45% are not observant at all) and therefore wouldn’t be inclined to follow the religious instructions on the subject anyway.

  41. My guess Hamas will eventually kill the hostages, the US will go after Iran, standing aside to let the IDF go after Hamas. Good hunting, get all of them!

  42. If Islam’s holy book does not command the killing of Jews, there are an awful lot of fallen-away Muslims. You’d think their theologians would be doing something about it.
    I note, however, that the piece about a Jew hiding behind a tree is a hadith, not in the Koran.

    But, to back off one step, if the Koran did command the killing of Jews–and subjugation of unbelievers–what would the difference be from today?

    It’s been a long and energetic glitch in the Muslims’ understanding of their religion.

    Or, perhaps, religion aside, hey just like to do that stuff.

    In any event, how would you get them to stop? And if you can’t, how do you get peace?

    BTW, Brit Douglas Murray has a lot of pieces on youtube, some speeches, many discussions including debates. Pretty clear about what is happening.

  43. Richard Aubrey, these are really strong points:

    If Islam’s holy book does not command the killing of Jews, there are an awful lot of fallen-away Muslims. You’d think their theologians would be doing something about it.
    ….

    But, to back off one step, if the Koran did command the killing of Jews–and subjugation of unbelievers–what would the difference be from today?

  44. Is it possible that the appearance of so much hate in so many people over so many centuries and in so many areas must be seen as having a legitimate complaint?
    Somewhere, maybe instinctively, is there a feeling that the Jews did or must have done, or are doing, something wrong? No such hate of such volume and persistence can be just accidental, can it?

    In addition, it’s easier to blame the Jews than tell Islam to stop what it’s been doing so bloodily for centuries.

    As Douglas Murray said, two things unite Muslims; Jews surviving and Jews winning.

    In other venues, I’d be accused of blaming the Jews. But I will say, to clarify, I”m talking about a normal reaction from outsiders to such an imbalance of hate. It’s easy, possibly instinctive, to presume there’s something to it. It’s not normal otherwise. Think of all the energy, from suicide bombers to terrorist leaders to people muttering over their coffee, to voluntary support of anti-Semitic efforts of all kinds. Over centuries. It’s normal to look for a cause. Also makes it easier to not “take sides”.
    It’s not normal to believe such hate is just…normal among so many people. And even if not active, at least passive acceptance of what one’s religion is doing, what one’s nation is doing, what one’s neighbor is always going on about.

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