Air collision above the Potomac
The first major US air disaster in sixteen years occurred last night in Washington DC: an Army helicopter on a training flight with three crew members collided with an American airlines flight from Wichita carrying 64 souls on board. Both planes plunged into the frigid waters in the darkness, and although rescue crews tried their best, there are apparently no survivors and 28 bodies have been recovered.
It will take some time before the exact cause is known, but human error or errors seem obviously to be the reason this happened. Could be pilot error – almost certainly of the helicopter – could be controller error, could be both.
For those who were around in the 1980s, the crash of Air Florida Flight 90 almost inevitably comes to mind. It was also bitterly cold that day, and the cold was part of the reason for the crash because the pilots didn’t follow the proper de-icing procedures. The plane hit a bridge and plummeted into the icy Potomac, but the fact that it happened in daylight helped. Still, there were only five survivors, one saved by the heroic efforts of passer-by Lenny Skutnik, who plunged into the icy water to save a woman.
As I said, no survivors for last night’s crash, and perhaps no possibility of survivors even if it had occurred in broad daylight. RIP. Some of the dead were up-and-coming figure skaters, their coaches, and families – fourteen in all. They included six people from the skating club of Boston: two teenage skaters, two mothers, and two coaches who had been the 1994 World Champions in the pairs competition. I’m old enough to remember the horrible plane crash in 1961 in which the entire US figure skating team was killed. It made a deep impression on me as a child.
President Trump made some remarks today about last night’s crash, for which he blamed DEI. You can see some of the exchanges here. Does he know something we don’t? Possibly. But whether that’s the case or not, in my opinion his remarks were premature and inappropriate for the day after. There’s plenty of time to blame DEI if and when more information comes in that indicates that DEI was a factor.
Inappropriate and premature — unless he knows something we don’t; even then, it could have waited. But he speaks his mind, sometimes when he shouldn’t. The questions about DEI among the military, FAA, and airline pilots were widely discussed before this crash. The head of the FAA resigned under pressure on Jan. 20, but that would have no direct bearing on this terrible event.
Always wait for final investigation but apparently tower asked helo to be aware of jet and helo said they saw it but were looking at another nearby jet.
He didn’t explicitly blame DEI from what I saw. He raised it as a broader concern for future safety, while saying things like “We will get to the bottom of this,” regarding last night’s disaster. You can argue this wasn’t the moment for that, but I don’t see it as a big faux pas, though you can be sure the MSM will make it out to be.
Have to give President Trump some leeway on running his mouth — he has done a most excellent job this time (so far) of biting his tongue, IMHO.
There is news that the tower had 19 ATC staff at the time vs 30 prescribed, and that one controller was doing both helo and commercial air traffic, which would ordinarily be two separate controllers.
Karmi:
Oh, I give him plenty of leeway. I think it’s an unforced error, however. But that’s going to happen sometimes.
President Trump on DEI:
“…n my opinion his remarks were premature and inappropriate for the day after. There’s plenty of time to blame DEI if and when more information comes in that indicates that DEI was a factor.”
Well stated, neo.
47 is right about what ails the FAA but maddeningly premature to focus on it now but he’s so focused on driving change faster than the swamp can adapt these things will happen. Like Neo, I wish 47 could have resisted taking a swing at the DEI pinata, but that’s not his style.
Love the Donald but IMHO he should have held off for a few days. Initial statements should come from FAA or Transportation or NTSA, this tragic event was way below Donald’s pay grade. Media will be predictably hysterical about it.
SecDef Hegseth was on TV earlier saying there was an elevation problem. Commentary is that the ceiling for helicopters above the Potomac in that area is 200 ft. The crash occurred at something like 350-400 ft. So even if there were visual errors and confusion from the controllers, the Blackhawk was well above its approved elevation. If this wasn’t an equipment malfunction, then it was pilot error. There are “black boxes” which they will find to investigate all aspects of this. The NTSB chair says they know a lot at this point but they are going to verify everything. Very proper.
I was not too impressed with the new Sec Transportation either.
neo (3:50 pm) said:
“I think it’s an unforced error, however. But that’s going to happen sometimes.”
I do believe I know where you’re coming from, neo, but this sort of unforced error need not ever happen. It should *never* happen, unless the error-committer is an extremely undisciplined bloviator. The man suffers from long-standing diarrhea of the mouth.
ref my comment at 4:45 pm. Haven’t been able to find the “guidelines for hiring on the Federal Aviation Administration website” that the article quoted Trump referencing.
Judging by the comments in this thread – I hope Trump was quoting correctly, if that is what he actually said…
I read somewhere that the ATC radar can’t read the elevation at the low level of the helicopter so the pilot is responsible for maintaining his elevation at the 200 ceiling.
May have read this wrong and the pilots here can correct me but that would seem to take at least some of the blame from the ATC.
CNN is all over it already, with the apparently new attack chihuahua reporter – Daniel Dale:
Fact check: Trump’s FAA used the same language about hiring people with disabilities he’s now blasting
A tragedy; and a shock. We have rightfully come to believe that when we board an airline in the United States we will be safe.
I believe that this was an avoidable tragedy. There is little doubt in my mind that the mid-air collision was a result of human error. Well, in a sense, they all are. But in this case on the part of whom? I, along with the rest of the general public, have not a clue at this time. I hate it when experts and pseudo-experts run to the nearest microphone to speculate and pontificate.
As is so often the case, Trump would do well to take a deep breath before opening his mouth. I think that the push for DEI within the controller ranks, and of course within the Armed Forces, is pretty well documented. But there is an appropriate time to address that.
Here’s what 47 is referring to:
https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1885017228958986276
Could be the acting administrator has pulled the guidelines in order to “update” them.
SECDEF stuck up for the Blackhawk crew despite probably knowing they were flying 100 – 200 ft above the helicopter corridor’s max altitude. If they’d stayed in the corridor they’d have been clear of traffic to either runway. Night VFR flying around DCA is challenging – busy, poor visual cues, etc. In my day, accidents happened often around milestone flight hrs like the 500 or 1000 hrs of the Blackhawk crew when pilots are experienced enough to let their guard down. The Army will have a good handle on what role the Blackhawk crew played in the next 24-48 hrs in order to get the unit flying again and the NTSB will tell the full story after interviewing and reconstructing everything next year.
Aviation attorney and pilot Arthur Rosenberg considers it most likely an ATC error. He avoids DEI speculation, but notes that air traffic has been growing more rapidly than air traffic controllers for some time.
–“‘This is not rocket science’: Former pilot gives straightforward analysis on DC plane crash”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQbB5Fj4SOM
ATC radar interrogates transponders. It does not generate primary tracks like ADC radar.
“Pushing Tin” is perhaps the only film about the world of air traffic controllers. Stacked 90s cast: John Cusack, Billy Bob Thornton, Cate Blanchett and Angelina Jolie.
It’s advertised as a comedy and it is funny, albeit darkly so. However, I find it overlapping with “The Right Stuff,” detailing a high-testosterone world of guys (and a gal) performing intense life-or-death work while competing with each other as well.
I thought it was great and underrated.
“You land a millioon planes safely, then you have one little mid-air colliision and you never hear the end of it.”
–“Pushing Tin” (1999)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH2JGPkkM4k
‘Trump Tally 1/30/2025 Update: Is the old Trump back so soon?!? Trump’s wild plane crash update: From a call for unity to suggesting dwarves shouldn’t be air traffic controllers – and an *AVALANCHE* of news on such in front, on both sides, and following close behind it.
Strong:
1) Pre-Jan 20 was very well organized w/ Trump quiet. CoS Susie Wiles has done a great job!
2) Quickly picked Admin & staff pre-Jan 20.
3) Inauguration Day 2025 shows total preparation made by good leader – unlike being unprepared during his first term.
4) Moved fast on illegal immigration promises – plus lots of helpful EO’s.
5) Have to give Trump a Strong on his choice of Pete Hegseth as SoD – and solid work by the GOP Senate to get him confirmed!
Weak:
1) Failed to end Russia-Ukraine war within 24 hours.
2) Re-designates Iranian-backed Houthis as terrorists – lets Iran continue to back them!?!
3) neo called it an “unforced error” on Trump’s part. Most commenters agreed. ‘Twas an internet vision of Trump staring as the Hare in ‘The Tortoise and the Hare’. Horrid response to Air collision above the Potomac – horrid response to a National Tragedy. Probably doesn’t bode well for confidence in his future response/s to a National Emergency…?
I am going to wait until we know what happened.
1) 100% agree that in my personal & professional life I would put daylight between commiserating and “root cause” for a tragedy – and most would give me time to do so in my world.
2) My world is not the world that Trump and his administration operates in – 1st & 2nd terms – and I have been pleased to see him and his administration incorporate:
• Lessons Learned (see zero Honeymoon or Goodwill by Dem/ MSM, govt agency resistance & sabotage),
• Tactics used against him/ Republicans that work (see ‘never let a crisis go to waste’, instant commentary/ judgement), and
• New approaches (see Mar-a-lago 2nd term planning, new media, DOGE, Greenland and Panama).
3) What both worlds do share is an understanding of: a) You cannot unring the bell, and b) Belling the cat.
4) By framing what will be talked about Trump puts a spotlight on topics that he wants in the spotlight and ensures:
• Dems/ MSM will spend time & energy defending the indefensible/ unpopular,
• Dems/ MSM will spend time & energy trying to refute his assertions – versus Trump trying to refute theirs, and
• The public will be exposed to ideas that the Dems/ MSM would “hide” (see unqualified, diminished, common sense).
5) Like WWII, we are in a fight for survival^^ – hard for many to understand because there has been no kinetic action – and I am forever grateful that there was generation of hard men that were willing to fight and to do what was required to win during wartime; and grateful that Trump and his 2nd administration are fighters in that mold too.
^^ = very little daylight between what Victor Davis Hanson has been writing for sometime and my personal observations and conclusions
Thirty-eight years earning my keep as a pilot. I’ve got some idea s about what happened but am willing to let the NTSB sort it out.
Accident investigations are hard. Death and destruction, high visibility, many factors to consider, and lots of rumors.
I was involved in investigations of a couple of accidents while on active duty in the Navy. It’s tough work and takes time. And in the end, the definitive cause may not be found. The goal is to learn lessons that can make aviation safer.
I had heard about the possibility of DEI hiring at some airlines. I did not believe it would happen because no airline can afford to have the competence of their crews in question. Or so I thought. Apparently, I was wrong.
And after seeing the FAA’s (now taken down) DEI hiring policies, I am flabbergasted. Anyone who has ever flown into O’Hare, the New York, area, or into DCA knows the controllers there are the best of the best, and they need to be. It was always a treat to listen to how they orchestrated the traffic. Real pros, but they also need enough people on the job to handle it.
We’ll see what the facts show. I hope this may be a wakeup call for our aviation transportation system. It’s only as strong as its weakest link.
Similar airplane-helicopter incident occurred at that airport the night before the crash but the pilot of the civil aircraft successfully aborted the landing.
WTF is wrong with those people????
“Jet Aborted Landing at Reagan National Day Before Crash”—
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/jet-aborted-landing/2025/01/30/id/1197231/
I now work for a DOD contractor out of PAX river and the associated base that the Helicopter came from. For a few weeks they announced they would be doing night practice runs of take offs and ladnings, and other things… to prepare us for the noise. there is more, but i cant say anything given my job.
enjoy the old time post…
or not.
The mess we are in that few can see or want to see
Lets keep in mind about today, where what is actually going on is a difference of opinion as to how things should operate and or function, NOT about race. One side, has control of the ball and the chickens have in many ways come to roost over it. In order to move ahead, one side wants to distort things more, just as long as people don’t notice what they did. The other side says you have to un-distort things and bring them back in line, and that will necessitate finding out what was done, and what was distorted, and that would reveal who was doing this manipulating.
So, what we see is not what they see and what is going on. A long time ago the left marched through the halls of education, but they also took the reins of social bribery (welfare, grants, etc), with a tour of inflating things too (by spending trillions ahead of earnings).
While it rolls back farther than 20 years, let’s just start there as I don’t want to write a book. No one cares anyway. With control of the schools they had a problem, their ideology like the soviets of Russian revolution, believed that there is no such thing as talent and ability. But for the reason the man who helped discover the structure of DNA lost all his standings, they could not believe in variation (to hell with birds beaks) across huge spans of land, but they cant believe in variations within.
When you’re so afraid of the future that you want to plan everything, the variables are way too much, and you end up having to simplify. Your 5-year plans can’t take in personality, ability, etc. God Damn It, you need widgets. (you need the robots that capitalists would create and who would be your slaves without moral issue – but can’t wait for)
Each means of control they hold with a death grip and refuse to change it. So they continued welfare, and they continued the idea that men are worthless and required welfare moms to kick dad out. A woman once asked me about her sons, and she couldn’t understand it. She said she was a good mom, and she worked hard, and they had a decent life, and she was a successful single mother. So, what was wrong wither sons? I said it was simple. Her success at showing men that women don’t need men (within the artificial realm of society), showed her sons that they had no point to their existence. Why have girlfriends that drain your wallet? Why have kids that stop your fun? Why work?
In their false effort to change education to lower performance in the higher talented, so the lower talented would appear to close the gap. Keep high performing men out of college and naturally the numbers for women would skew… all the girls in my class at Bronx Science moved on, most of the guys, who were not of race, became things like band drummers with 170IQ. A Dilbert outcome.
By not removing the welfare or changing it, the kids who were the product of this system were all ready to grow up ina life that was familiar. Heck, they were being displaced by the overabundance of Spanish from a few countries negating immigration. You didn’t have to worry about a black man who was a short order cook serving a white person at the counter as was in the 60s, the black man was in welfare, and a new Spanish replacement was at the short order table, the nanny position, and so on. That was the first amnesty.
So we are now about 20 years ago. The people WE ALL want to have better lives have not moved out of welfare and taken advantage of things. They know that they have no place. They want to enjoy life, and they know (like the people I grew up with), that living this welfare culture they don’t have to work, they don’t have to study, they can “partee all the time” as a famous black singer sings.
They wrecked the pipeline… and they refuse to fix it, because to do so requires they admit they wrecked the pipeline after stealing all that control.
Those kids of race never entered the pipeline to come out as adults to take up jobs today!!!!
No schools in Baltimore test at grade level. NONE. That means that whole black population is not capable of taking up a degree or other things later because of that situation. They will not in 15 years take up roles as CEO, business owners with an MBA, professorships (in other than racial crap that does no one any good – and when Trotsky coined it was about culture).
They saw this coming. They were in charge. They had the real numbers and their think tanks that come up with distortions that then fail that they then don’t get why that have to be hid from the side that knows that distortions don’t work. What a pickle. So they realize that if we can separate the races again, we can then fudge the numbers between groups. Sooo another distortion. DEI was then employed for the idea of putting more people in places everyone wants. But solving and hiding the problem of the failure of the prior distortions.
The left likes the surface, if things look well, then they are well. The examples are legendary. In China they pain the ground green so that passing people think its lush from a distance… Stalin wanted the biggest things that could not even be constructed. To hell with reality!
And that’s the cry. When trump calls out DEI in FAA… they all groan its racism. The left is told they know everything already. They sit and actually act as if its something they don’t know, then it doesn’t exist. Hold that in your mind a second. Right now they actually act as if Trump the president of the US who has as a job the oversight of the FAA and all its programs and people, and has classified in formation and gets information by the minute that they may never see or if they do in a report a year or two from now. But they are superior to him and are disgusted that he brings up their racist programs as potentially being a problem.
A few may even try to search, but all your going to find is Trump, Trump, Trump… so they wont search with a “-Trump” in the line. IF they did they would find that this problem with racial quotas at the FAA started during as a discussion with Bush, but changes were made by Obama.
Basically, to move on this subject, they decided there were not enough women, blacks, and disabled (including mentally disabled) in the FAA program to make air traffic controllers. And after a whole bunch of crap, around 2014 and 2015 they changed the CTI program. Basically, they removed the qualification for college, and replaced it with a Essay and an IQ test.
Average democrats who know more than even world leaders, sit in their kitchen and do not know about the gears of the thing they are not in charge of and don’t believe anyone in charge would know anything about what they oversee. Cute. Add that they are incredibly incurious waiting to be spoonfed the facts so that their ego is not bruised by being wrong. Ie. They are narcissist leaning and so cant take being wrong and so stand on the stuff they are given with the idea twas given it it has to be right, and I cant step off, cause I don’t know enough to know even if I am wrong. Cute cute.
So when trump brings up DEI in FAA this is what he is referring to. Did it cause a problem? How would the left know? If it did, how could they pin it on who? Obama, Biden, Buttiege, or just 4 years of Trump?
They have to protect their ego, so they refuse to ask whether Trump knows something they don’t? they extend this same superiority of the narcissist personality as normal, to all the people that follow trump. Thus you see again, if only Stalin knew.
That was a timely example, but the problem is big. You have a population about to collapse. You manipulated the politi so that they are not free and capable humans that can adapt, but are trained for jobs and things that are gone. Another huge set are trained at things that are useless… A degree in Taylor swift? Useful? Its not even useful as an associates degree that you did the work, you might have spent your time listening to Taylor in a pod.
WE ALL would like to see more people succeed. But don’t pay attention to the Chinese or the people of India. Many people from India have skin darker than most blacks in the USA. But for some odd reason they are CEOs, Doctors, Lawyers, Programmers, Etc. WTF? Right there is your laboratory blind study. They did not accept the welfare position. They do not think or are taught that other people owe them something for something that happened to someone that looked like you in the past but you literally have no connection with today other than that appearance.
What it is, is that the left created a culture that they hoped would push the revolution. A revolutionary party by necessity has to hurt its people, make the pigs squeal loud, so they make the error in their desperation of wanting a Chavez, or Maduro, or Hitler, etc. doesn’t really matter to them, unless it’s the other side they believe wanting the same and would beat them as they did in Indonesia and other places. You can’t vote a revolutionary party and be happy
Their race distortions that did not result in a race war… but DID result in some god awful movies of black urban living, power to the people, communist writings from the highlander school (we shall overcome?), a welfare culture, and an army that will not fight but wants to be paid by its facilitators. In comes the new army… the Spanish who will fight and change things as t hey have done all over, over and over again.
Again. We all want people to succeed, but the lefts distortions meant that the people they want were not produced. With welfare and a culture to train them, they went the no work, party, steal, and deal life… why not? So they didn’t even learn the new math that crippled the smarter people we need too. Oh distortion on distortion until we see the world as if it’s a reflection in circus tent mirror. By the way, the new people can take that up either!!!
So now what? There really is nothing to be done. You cant have children you didn’t have because of feminism. You cant make students of the blacks who took up welfare and not a place in society. You cant reverse the experimentation on children that created people who are less than their parents and wonder why they didn’t do as well as if they are not less.
I said the population is dropping. Thought you all would be able to put the pieces together, that I might not get censored in some non censored way that leads to the same outcome but is explained to me to be different? Really? Who read what was taken down? No one… who reads what is censored? No one… for some reason women think the reasons make mitigation when they don’t – but that is how their world works, not the rest of the world!!! (no more on this its distracting).
The feminist movement globally has caused the same population to collapse it did in Russia. Russias population collapsed but not because it got rich. Many third world countries people claim the money made them, but they are not more rich than we were back when we had a boom.
Women are not the future… they are as much the future as the Shakers are today.
And the shakers could not perpetually live on orphans, and they can’t perpetually live on taking the minds of other people children, ending their fecundity, and finding more before families respond, or before they run out of Westerners, and have to deal with the Muslims and Fatwahs.
As bad as the people that I talked about who had to step up 20 years ago to be in place today, while the population is collapsing (solving global warming without doing a thing), we are going to also lose people who can do the work. A third world illiterate person who will live on welfare is not going to replace the child of a middle-class family (black or white) who had a full education in the west.
You have to exposé it to fix it and to expose it is to know who did what and who was what.
After my generations kids, it went down hill
Then came the board of ed, leftist dominance, feminist movement moving men out of schools and on and on.
We didn’t wake up, we didn’t wake up now.
2010s–2020s: Current Status
U.S. ranks around 30th in math, 13th in reading, and 18th in science globally (PISA, 2018).
Declining college readiness and increasing student loan debt crises
Many U.S. high school graduates lack basic proficiency in core subjects
The only REAL way to fix things is to reverse the distortions… to accept what was done, and so on. But if that was so, how angry will the parents and the actual student victims be for them convincing them to abandon the top place in the world, to improve themselves into shit-ville?
The immigration thing will not result in a fix, its another distortion. Eventually this puppy is going to collapse.
When the boomers go they will be leaving the rest of the undersized population with a 37 trillion dollar bill they will be skipping out to heaven on.
There is more,
But for something that will be ignored, this is enough.
“‘The FAA website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism … all qualify for the position of a controller of airplanes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot on the map … a little runway,’ he said.” There are a lot of FAA people in jobs other than air traffic control. The FAA hires computer specialists, designers of instrument approaches, probably even janitors (if this job isn’t outsourced to contractors) It’s not valid to assume from the website that they are hiring blind people with 80 IQs as air traffic controllers.
Regarding DEI: after hiring, candidate controllers attend the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City, the ones who don’t wash out then work in supervised positions in facilities under the supervision of experienced controllers before they are authorized to control live traffic on their own. I think it is very unlikely that an incompetent individual was working in DCA tower.
The potential harmful effect of DEI is more likely an *indirect* effect….a lot of people are hired who don’t make it through the full process…and in this cases, a lot of people who very likely *were* qualified were turned away…resulting in shortages. Investigation will tell if short staffing was really a factor in this accident; if it was, then DEI, especially the insane version of it implemented by the Obama administration in this case, may have played a significant part.
A cascade of errors, staffing shortages, because of vaccine mandates, DEI, misallocations of budgets, all contributed to this disaster, now where were these intrepid reporters in the Panem citadels of New York and Washington during all these times, they seem to have been awol, ‘Democracy was certainly in hibernation’ for all intents and purposes,
well in the 80’s, Bill Bennett, most notably tried to salvage the educational institutions, but as with Gorbachev and perestroika you can’t resurrect a dead thing, now constructivist, which are Soviet based educational templates, were at fault in part, and his successor Cavazos, or Clinton’s cipher,
did nothing to resolve this problem in fact they probably made it worse by the 00s. the second generation of math instruction was not working, from my anecdotal experience in local public schools
CNN has new videos of a different angle of the collision. With the airliner at 400ft it was literally seconds away from making the landing and I’m sure the pilots were focused on the runway and not what was coming in from the starboard side. The new videos are really astounding as I don’t understand how the helo crew could not see the airliner.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/video/american-airline-plane-crash-washington-exclusive-video-ldn-digvid
I guess I am getting ahead of the facts here, but wow, seems like a combination of ATC and helo crew error. Blackbox from the CRJ recovered, but I doubt it will help establish the cause.
https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-a-quick-overview
Historically, the pipeline into air traffic control has followed a few paths: military veterans, graduates of the “Air Traffic-Collegiate Training Initiative” (AT-CTI) program, and the general public. Whichever route they came from, each candidate would be required to take and pass the eight-hour AT-SAT cognitive test to begin serious training. This test was validated as being effective as recently as 2013.
The FAA has faced pressure to diversify the air traffic control for generations, something that seems to have influenced even the scoring structure of the AT-SAT cognitive test used for pre-employment screening of air traffic control candidates. Leading up to 2014, that pressure intensified, with the National Black Coalition of Federal Aviation Employees (NBCFAE) leading the push.
To start with, in 2000, a three-member task force, including NBCFAE member Mamie Mallory, wrote “A Business Case and Strategic Plan to Address Under-Representation of Minorities, Women, and People with Targeted Disabilities,” recommending, per the lawsuit, a workplace cultural audit, diversity “hiring targets” for each year, and “allowing RNO- [Race and National Origin] and gender-conscious hiring.” They were advised by Dr. Herbert Wong, who helped the NBCFAE analyze FAA diversity data in 2009. Wong authored a report concluding that the FAA was “the least diverse agency within the executive branch of the federal government.” Mallory and Wong were consulted as part of the 2014 test replacement process.
Article too long
Great to see you, Artfldgr!
I agree with the pushback on President Trump suggesting this has anything to do with DEI. (Although many rightly ask if in fact that is what he was doing.)
My brother works for Delta and we routinely discuss incidents like this. It *is* too early to say who if anyone is at fault. However my first thought is why air traffic control allowed those two aircraft to be so close. Interestingly we know ATC told PAT25 to watch for and go “behind” the CRJ. Okay. But that right there is already a potential problem. When one aircraft has to “look out” for another (on landing approach) and needs to be careful to go “behind” the other that opens the door for error and disaster.
It’s like saying “you can go through the intersection (when the light is yellow or even red) just make sure you don’t hit the other cars”. Better not to go through the intersection at all (until the light is green and *other* vehicles don’t enter).
I saw a post by a guy who used to fly Blackhawks, was a crew chief and trained flight crews, who explained just how surprisingly difficult it is to spot other aircraft, especially at night, and especially around Washington DC where the area is awash in light(s). He explained what Blackhawk crews are supposed to do to watch out for obstacles. And admitted that sometimes everyone is looking at the gauges, and the person who’s supposed to be looking out the window isn’t.
People make mistakes. Which is why (and here I’m jumping the gun) I wonder how ATC allowed a situation where *if* someone made a mistake the result would be disastrous.
I used to pilot light aircraft (can’t pass the physical now) and we always stayed away from the airport except to take off or land. Too much airplane traffic around the airport. I’m wondering why the helo was flying around the airport? Should have stayed far away out of the airport traffic,
I don’t believe in waiting for the fake investigation. I prefer Trump’s method of attacking your enemies and blaming them immediately. Its what I would do too, and its part of why I voted for him. Wiating for the investigation is for pussies.
And I heard this morning that its coming out the chopper pilate was a Tranny and Trump is being vindicated.
“He explained what Blackhawk crews are supposed to do to watch out for obstacles. And admitted that sometimes everyone is looking at the gauges, and the person who’s supposed to be looking out the window isn’t.” – Rick67
But the helicopter reported seeing the CRJ. Indicating he was looking out for trtaffic. Did the pilot actually see it or just think he did.
“….who explained just how surprisingly difficult it is to spot other aircraft, especially at night, and especially around Washington DC where the area is awash in light(s).” That’s a big issue in this accident. VFR at low altitudes at night with a background of large large city lights is tricky.
At this point, the altitude of the helicopter (reported as 375 feet) is an important factor, as the assigned altitude was at or below 200 feet.
There are two ways of determining altitude in an aircraft. The barometric altimeter, which reads air pressure and must be properly set to the local barometric pressure in order to be accurate. The other is the radar altimeter which measures the height above the ground directly. Radar altimeters are especially useful when at low altitudes. Two questions must be answered.
1. Was the barometric altimeter properly set and operative?
2. Was the radar altimeter operative?
In other words, was the helicopter pilot at the worn g altitude because of instrument problems or was he just ignoring his altitude restriction. One is an equipment malfunction; the other is pilot error. Those questions need to be answered.
well in the 80’s, Bill Bennett, most notably tried to salvage the educational institutions,
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The people who might do something are Republican state legislators, and they’ve been sitting on their hands for 60 years.
Quck reply to JJ:
Good points. The former Blackhawk crew chief was referring to past experience that doesn’t necessarily apply to this incident. I wasn’t aware PAT25 reported they saw the CRJ.
Although it’s still early increasingly it looks like VFR at low altititude *plus* PAT25’s altitude were factors.