“The American people are exhausted by this”
The title of this post is a direct quote from commenter “Cornhead” today on one of the posts about the Ukraine phone call and its fallout.
I don’t know about the American people, although I suspect Cornhead is right. I do know that I’m exhausted by it.
No, I don’t mean I’m going to give up blogging. But I know that I’m exhausted by the mendacity and the relentless undermining of whatever unity we’ve had in this country for most of my life, as well as the constant demonstrations of the susceptibility of way too many people to propaganda.
Last night I was at a social gathering with about six other women, all pleasant people, all intelligent and educated and fun-loving. We were having dinner, and most of the time we didn’t discuss politics or anything related to it.
But now and then something somewhat political would come up – although interestingly enough, the topic of Ukraine/Biden/Trump/impeachment was never mentioned. The longest political discussion we did have, which lasted perhaps five minutes maximum, was about police shooting black people at routine traffic stops.
All the other women were in complete agreement that this is a frequent problem and a symptom of anti-black racism. There was no question in their minds that any random black person stopped by police is far more likely to be killed by that officer than any random white person similarly stopped.
When I listen to discussions like that, the first thing that comes over me is that aforementioned weariness at the persistence of such beliefs in the face of hard evidence to the contrary. I am also tired of being the lone voice speaking some difference of opinion to a group uninterested in hearing it – and most groups of a single persuasion are uninterested in hearing evidence that contradicts their strongly-held viewpoints. And sometimes not just uninterested, but hostile.
So each time this happens I must decide what to do. Silence is one option. Full bore disagreement is another. I’ve found through experimentation that the latter never works, and just marks me as a crank. So often I take a middle road, which isn’t very satisfying either, which is to just drop a few statements here and there that indicate I believe differently and why.
Last night I made two such statements. The first involved the fact that numerous white people are shot by police, and the second was a brief discussion of the risks to police from traffic stops and why they are so suspicious of uncooperative people in those situations.
I left with a headache.
Then today one of the first things I saw when I got online was this article by Heather Mac Donald on the topic of her recent Congressional testimony about police shootings and race. It’s a good article, as is just about everything she writes. It advances the arguments (with much more detail) that I would have offered last night at dinner, had I thought my audience was the least bit receptive and in the unlikely event that I was given the floor to discourse for about a half hour.
I thought of sending the attendees the link. But I desisted. I’ve learned over time that such a move gets one of two responses, or maybe both together: the links are ignored, or the recipient becomes angry. Either way, it doesn’t seem to help the situation.
But even more dispiriting was actually reading the Mac Donald article (although I suggest you do so; it’s very good). That’s because it outlines the distortions and lies told by the “experts” testifying before Congress and by the members of Congress themselves, at the hearing Mac Donald attended. Propaganda drowns out facts, at least it seems that way to me. My friends are merely the pawns in the game at the moment.
[ADDENDUM: Another problem with an argument introducing the work of someone like Heather Mac Donald is that it relies on a basic understanding of math and statistics. I find that most people just don’t have that knowledge. That’s another reason why so many tend to be very susceptible to propaganda and very resistant to taking in evidence that might counter their belief system.]
Hi. Just wondering if you have ever responded to the stupid with the question, “what is it that convinced you of that?” Was thinking of trying that…
From the perspective of the left, the unforgivable sin of the truly brilliant Heather Mac is that she makes her arguments based on irrefutable empirical data, and writes (as well as speaks) lucidly and cogently with a firm grounding in facts and evidence and a solid commitment to reason and logic. She is also one of the few defenders of the equally brilliant Amy Wax (U Penn Law), who is often vilified not only by leftists in the media but even from within her own school.
Yep, I usually take the middle road you mention and since I’m almost always calm and reasonable occasionally I make a little progress. But never with anything Trump related.
What it really amounts to is the politicization of everything. I can’t stand that.
I’ve mentioned here before that a return to normalcy campaign would work with a lot of people.
Steve Krueger:
I guess I never thought to ask that question because I know the answer. I read the MSM, after all, and listen to Democratic politicians talk about all these topics. I know quite well what convinced my friends of what they believe.
I also know – although I didn’t go into this in the post – that they are not conversant in statistics. Most people are not. So to discuss research and its details is a losing cause as well.
I may add an addendum to the post to that effect.
My favorite way to address this, for example about climate change. Ask everyone, “OK, who is with me, let’s all stop flying for vacation, family, etc. anything but medical emergencies?” I then raise my hand. I usually get a laugh, or uncomfortable looks and then a change of topic.
If you want a headache, try reading this from James Joyner at Outside the Beltway arguing that Republicans might actually turn on Trump and throw him out of office.
https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/trump-impeachment-likely-removal-thinkable/
There is no evidence in that post that Joyner has read or listened to ANY of the evidence or arguments against this Trump/Ukraine nonsense. I don’t just mean he hasn’t read neo or Ace or Instapundit. I don’t just mean he doesn’t watch Fox News. I mean that whatever he is reading or watching, he hasn’t been exposed to the other side of the issues AT ALL.
This isn’t some random person at a party. This is a guy who’s made it his business to comment on politics online for over 16 years! How can you co-exist with that kind of willful ignorance?
Mike
Neo,
You mention people not being conversant in statistics try to convince people how much safer from crime we all are now and particularly kids than say the seventies and you may as well bang your head against a cement wall. People are absolutely certain that the world is a far more dangerous place facts and stats be damned thanks mainly to media and especially social media.
On the matter of police and civilian confrontations resulting in violence, and especially in life and death gunfire, one new item might help turn the tide of prejudice as dissemination grows. That is, police departments are beginning to release for public viewing official bodycam video. These are eye opening for people who have no experience in these criminal encounters. Might help. No guarantee of course. Let ignorant friends see them. Minds may change. There’s nuttin’ like the real thing to wake the slumbering.
In general, I try to avoid socializing with university people. Around here, they’re the sort that give Neo a headache.
Unfortunately, a couple of years ago, I had an encounter very similar to the one Neo describes. Afterwards, I emailed them an article entitled “Police Violence against Black Men is Rare.” (https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybacye5e)
Their response: they wouldn’t read anything published in “National Review,” and that all the cited data and statistics must be manipulated. These people are university faculty. It’s been a long time since I even tried to reason with such smug and closed-minded people.
This in the linked Heather Mac Donald piece jumped out:
After such discussions occur (or don’t occur, because I don’t bother), I think how much better it would have been if I had asked a question or two. I’m not clever enough to remember that in the moment, it seems. “How many times a year does that happen, do you think?”
Sometimes I push back a little just to create space for anyone else who may disagree.
As for statistics, you will notice that NPR tells anecdotes rather than troubles itself with numbers, as in “We spoke to Kum Theeravit, who owns a bicycle repair shop in Bangkok, about what the new tariffs will mean to him…” Most news sources do, but they are the worst.
I know a lot of mathematicians. They have no more interest in the statistics than anyone else.
LTEC:
Interesting.
So propaganda trumps math even for mathematicians.
As a famous person would say: sad.
Yes, we conservatives (racists, homophobes, climate deniers, white nationalists, xenophobes, etc.) are exhausted by this. Unfortunately, we seem to be living in a time when the explosion of communications has set off a trend toward mass delusions. As delineated in “The Madness of Crowds” by Douglas Murray.
Here’s some of his take:
“We are going through a great crowd derangement. In public and in private, both online and off, people are behaving in ways that are increasingly irrational, feverish, herd-like and simply unpleasant. The daily news cycle is filled with the consequences. We see the symptom everywhere, we do not see the causes.
This is the simple fact that we have been living through a period of more than a quarter of a century in which all our grand narratives have collapsed.
The explanations for our existence that used to be provided by religion went first, falling away from the nineteenth century onwards. Then over the last century the secular hopes held out by all political ideologies began to follow in religion’s wake. In the latter part of the twentieth century we entered the postmodern era. An era which defined itself, and was defined by, its suspicion to all grand narratives. However, as all schoolchildren learn, nature abhors a vacuum, and into the postmodern vacuum new ideas began to creep, with the intention of providing explanations and meanings of their own.
Whatever else they lacked, the grand narratives of the past gave life meaning. The question of what exactly we are meant to do now – other than get rich where we can and have whatever fun is on offer – was going to have to be answered by something.
The answer that has presented itself in recent years is to engage in new battles, ever fiercer campaigns and ever more niche demands. To find meaning by waging a constant war against anybody who seems to be on the wrong side of a question which may itself have just been reframed and the answer to which has just been altered.
The interpretation of the world through the lens of “social justice”, ‘identity groups and ‘intersectionalism’ is probably the most audacious and comprehensive effort since the end of the Cold War at creating a new ideology.
The speed at which they have been mainstreamed is staggering.”
That rings true to me. I am appalled at how group think, intolerance, the criminalization of politics, and the urge toward destroying others lives through “canceling” have become accepted norms. We are in an undeclared Cold War. Undeclared because the Left claims to be objective and science driven while the Right, for the most part, just wants to live and let live. The left has declared war on Donald Trump because he is not as nice and accommodative as most conservatives tend to be. But now the Left is willing to destroy anyone who backs Trump also. The time is coming when the “Silent Majority” is going to have to be willing to stand up to the Left as stoutly as Trump. If we don’t, the madness of the Leftist crowds could sweep over the country with devastating results. I hope I’m wrong.
I don’t watch CNN because, Why should I?*
I don’t watch MSNBC because, Why should I?*
I don’t read the NYT, WaPo, Boston Globe, LA Times, SF Chronicle, etc., etc., because, Why should I? Ditto HuffPo, Vox, innumerable lefty/librul/RINO-ish pundits? Bill Nye, Bill McKibben (ugh to both). Why should I?
*Aside from the fact that we don’t have cable TV, that is. But I also don’t watch ABC/CBS/NBC either. Why should I?
What if I were of general librul (let alone current Donkey-Party-PTB/shrieker) bent? Wouldn’t I be exactly the same, only on the Other Side?
I’m not exactly sure how one can get the intellectual attention of the Other Side, no matter which side one comes from.
It doesn’t help that so much leftist (anti-American in a philosophical as well as a physical-fact sense) history has indoctrinated us with its malinterpretations and even downright erroneous so-called “facts.”
We could give everybody Radical Son for Christmas, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, and birthdays, but anybody on the Other Side who has the vaguest notion who he is will send it directly to File 13. Or some of Dr. Sowell’s books, even if Brad deLong did call him an “idiot.” (So much for Brad.) ….
None of that explains why no Republican questions for Miss MacDonald. Shameful, unless none of them knows anything at all about the subject beyond the usual librul-indoctrination talking points. In other words, ignoramuses with no business on any “judicial committee.”
:>(((
“What if I were of general librul (let alone current Donkey-Party-PTB/shrieker) bent? Wouldn’t I be exactly the same, only on the Other Side?”
The difference is that you are here. You are reading neo and, though links, other people actually responding to what the Other Side is saying and writing. As such, you ARE being exposed to the Other Side. Granted, it might be shown to you in a particularly negative light but you can still see it.
Contrast that to the reaction on the Left when the Mueller Report came out. Despite numerous indications over the course of months that the report would be a dud, they were stunned and disappointed when it happened. Their response was not one of people who had heard the other side and rejected it. They reacted like people who never even imagined there could be another side.
Mike
“what is it that convinced you of that?”
“guess I never thought to ask that question because I know the answer.”
Nonetheless, if you dare to risk being put on someone’s list of Enemies of the People, you might dare to scrutinize their (almost certainly) paper-thin grounds for their beliefs.
The upside could be to spur fair-minder observers, to seek to improve their epistemological methods, and to be more suspicious of the Left’s methods.
Eight out of ten people don’t understand statistics.
The other 90% don’t care.
“… was about police shooting black people at routine traffic stops.”
What? Oh, so this is about the Philando Castile shooting? Which of course, was not a routine traffic stop. But look it up on (W)ikipedia They don’t mention the real reason for the traffic stop until paragraph 8 where it is stated “The two occupants just look like people that were involved in a robbery.” Oohh. Not routine.
LTEC – my experience is that engineers do better.
‘The American people are exhausted by this’
Imagine what it’s going to be like one year from now.
MBunge, good point about the oppo’s reaction. And although I refuse to add to Vox’s hits-count, and rarely visit HuffPo (for the same reason), I do visit Arianna once in a great while because of something I read here or in similar venues.
And other articles from the Netherworld that make me feel I should check them out for myself.
Actually, I really appreciate your comment in a personal way too. Moral support. Thanks!
Another good source of high-class opinion from the Dark Side is some of the Federalist Society’s roundtables. I’ve been treated to the opinions of Andy Stern*, Jed Rubenfeld* (UGH!!!, Andy Koppelman, John Tomasi (so-called “bleeding-heart” libertarian, path! I say, even if he bills himself as conservative), Jeffrey Rosen (now U.S. Deputy Atty. General) and CEO or whatever of the American Constitution Society, which was created to overcome the Fed. Society’s deleterious effect on our country’s politics, etc. etc.
*Excellent discussion, especially almost at the end in the Q&A, where Prof. Epstein smacks the odious Rubenfeld good & hard upside the chops. Arguing for the Good Guys: Richard (Epstein) and Steve Forbes. 11 short parts on “The Redistribution of Wealth.” Roughly 1 1/2 hours total, I guess, and worth every second. You’ll want plenty of popcorn. 😀
Playlist at
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL454D6E664BE1C91F .
Not to be missed!
Great blog! I am currently in the States at a wedding and spending time in the inter mountain west. My sister (who always voted Republican) is an intelligent person. She told a shuttle driver (when he spoke of current political events) that she would vote for Biden and misses the Obama years. The propaganda has had an effect and I am choosing to change the subject. It is crazy now how divided the country has become, but my optimistic side says this too will pass.
Great blog! I am currently in the States at a wedding and spending time in the inter mountain west. My sister (who always voted Republican) is an intelligent person. She told a shuttle driver (when he spoke of current political events) that she would vote for Biden and misses the Obama years. The propaganda has had an effect and I am choosing to change the subject. It is crazy now how divided the country has become, but my optimistic side says this too will pass.
Regarding Statistics:
I was fed on my Face Book Feed a Daily Wire article regarding
the danger of the hormone blocker Leuprolide Acetate (Lupron). The author linked the FDA website to verify the statistics she stated. 40,764 adverse reactions, More than 25,500 reactions logged from 2014-2019 were considered ‘serious,’ including 6,370 deaths,” Article goes on to talk about 8 year olds being given the drug. It is so awful, it is sickening.
One person posted “this is fake news, I went on the FDA website and found the statistics and this is not true” and linked to an NBC article saying that this was a fake story, and not true.
So I went on the FDA Adverse effect website link, you had to actively put in the drug name and click and wouldn’t you know There it was in black and blue and Red. exactly how the Daily Wire reported it. I copied the link and pasted it into a reply to the person.
This example is one single, tiny, just a blip on the radar thing that goes on endlessly all day long, every day.
Lies, and more lies, and the left NEVER trusts any of OUR sources.
A close relative of mine will never take anything I say as fact, as fact, because – I am a conservative, and surely wherever I am getting my information from is not correct.
I have a list of 25 subjects that I would love to debate with this person, but they refuse to. Like NEO said, “I’m the crank.” I am the extremist when I say gender is biological, sexual orientation is psychological – sometimes simply a choice because life looks better and more fun for one or the other sexes sometimes, for a myriad of pathological reasons, and for those under 8 – the instability of their parents.
The entire thing regarding police shootings is so enraging.
Heather McDonald is a brave genius who has all those asshats over a barrel.
Shame on you Republicans for not getting her information out in the public eye when you had a clear chance to do so.
I am much more than exhausted at this point. It never lets up with Trump, the hatred is amazing. We as conservatives are becoming an endangered species. The left wants us all to disappear so they can have their utopia.
Things are accelerating these past 6 months like I have never seen before. Mattel now has Gender Neutral Dolls claiming that Children are Demanding them. Parents damaging their children forever with dangerous drugs and surgeries to change their sex. The damage that is being done to our Country and Culture is catastrophic.
I have two very young grandchildren. I am mortified.
Marlene;
No worries. The left is hysterical, people in the know don’t need to be. I am like; ‘Bring it on Dems. Impeach Trump and the Senate will vote it down.’ They are playing their cards so bad. They have a losing strategy. Turn off the news and go for walks. The next year will be all about the election. Vote in a year and I think the Republicans are going to do well. The Democrats have made so many mistakes it is laughable. As far as the kids on hormones, they are already coming out of the woodwork, telling the world what a mistake their parents and they made. I know a couple of people who changed their sex and are happy. But they were adults when they made their decision.
Marlene,
Yes. Lotta that going around. (As above, MBunge in response to me.)
Heaven help me, I said something or other positive about Dershowitz to my Proudly Progressive Bernie-loving bro. In return I got an anti-Dersh rant followed by an Orange-Man-Bad rant.
(The one thing I will say is in possible mitigation, namely that while I know he meant every word of both, the carrying-on into Orange-Man territory may have been intended as humorous. I hope so.)
The website “HeyJackass” has up-to-date statistics on the mayhem in Chicago.
As of Sunday morning, 29 September, the total of wounded or killed is 2,119.
Police wounded or killed 9 out of the 2,119—0.43% of the total.
84% of the assailants were black. 84% of the victims were black.
The police clear 9.5% of homicide cases.
JFM, I prefer…
http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/
Neo, how about you just punt and let me do the heavy lifting? I realize that also will involve having to admit that such people like me are loyal adherents to your site. And that I like you. Although in your defense it was really because you alerted me that the Georgian national ballet involved knife throwing that got me hooked.
I am all about the knife throwing.
I doubt your lady friends have ever met a cop. My uncle was a battalion fire chief in a major west coast fire department. My dad was a USCG senior chief radioman. Who the h3ll do you think was sitting at my kitchen table when I was growing up? Firemen. Cops. EMTs.
Oh, Neo, you should see my first aid kit.
I bet your lady friends have nothing that can compare to my first aid kit. The blood clotting agents alone expand into two Sears Craftsmen tool boxes. I used to look for toolboxes on sale.
Which is kind of the point. I gave up; someone did the job for me and put the kit together.
https://www.firstindustrialsupplies.com/o2-trauma-aed-backpack-navy-911-84550nv/?utm_source=bingshopping&utm_medium=cpc&msclkid=d7728444ab6f19666862d9d56f3ebc47&utm_campaign=FIS%20Shopping&utm_term=4576373557362991&utm_content=Ad%20group%20%231
“O2 / Trauma / AED Backpack (Navy) 911-84550NV
‘Our FTX backpack is like having an E.R. at your fingertips. To facilitate a rapid response, we designed one outer pocket to hold your AED, and one smaller pocket above for extra AED pads and accessories. The mid-section of the case unzips to reveal a full-length compartment for collars, splints, or other flat items. The interior of the case has dedicated hold-downs for a ‘D’ size oxygen tank. A bag- valve-mask, airways, nasal cannulas, and oxygen masks. 4 color-coded transparent pouches inside carry your assorted trauma and airway suppliesi…”
I am not going to go through the ritual about how some cops are bad. In my experience police officers are admirable. They share my interest in rendering aid.
Attention to citation.
“The President of the United States takes pride in presenting the
NAVY AND MARINE CORPS MEDAL posthumously to
MASTER-AT-ARMS SECOND CLASS MARK A. MAYO
UNITED STATES NAVY
for service as set forth in the following
CITATION:
For heroism while serving at Naval Station Norfolk Security Detachment, Norfolk, Virginia on 24 March 2014. While performing his duties as Chief of the Guard, Petty Officer Mayo was alerted to a suspicious individual walking towards USS MAHAN (DDG 72) on Pier 1, Naval Station Norfolk. Petty Officer Mayo pursued the individual up the brow of the ship while both he and the Quarterdeck watch-standers directed the individual to stop and provide identification. Failing to comply, the individual approached the Quarterdeck, attacked and disarmed the Petty Officer of the Watch. After boarding the ship, Petty Officer Mayo realized that the Petty Officer of the Watch no longer had control of her weapon. With complete and total disregard for his own personal safety, Petty Officer Mayo immediately placed himself between the Petty Officer of the Watch and the assailant. While fearlessly engaging the assailant and shielding the Petty Officer of the Watch, Petty Officer Mayo was fatally wounded. His exceptionally brave actions saved the lives of four watch-standers and ensured the safety of the entire crew of USS MAHAN (DDG 72). By his courageous and prompt actions in the face of great personal risk, Petty Officer Mayo prevented the loss of lives, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
For the President,
JONATHAN W. GREENERT
Admiral, United States Navy”
If it matters, Petty Officer Mayo was a black man. Your friends don’t even know his name, but I do. I never met a cop who wanted to shoot Master At Arms Second Class Mark Mayo.
Respectfully, I am all kinds of curious about people who have such a low opinion of my ilk.
It helps, in my opinion, to put names to what would otherwise be anonymous faces.