Trump, hypocrisy, and Schrodinger’s Cat: opening the box
The day after the election I was talking to a friend, a political moderate who was a NeverTrumper and who voted for Hillary, but who was feeling surprisingly relieved after the election. However, this person was also vehemently saying that one of the worst things about Trump is that he’s such a hypocrite. I replied (partly as a joke but partly in all seriousness) that one of the advantages of hypocrisy is that it keeps a person flexible.
And that in Trump’s case, the freedom to back off from some of his most extreme positions could be a good thing.
Now that Trump has been elected president and there’s no turning back, what I called his “mutability” during the campaign could be an advantage. When choosing a nominee or a president, I want someone who tells the truth about his/her beliefs and plans, and is consistent. How else can a voter evaluate what we might be getting into if this person is elected? It’s especially important if the candidate has never held office and therefore has no political track record at all, as was the case with Trump. So during the primaries and in the lead-up to the election, Trump’s volatility, impulsiveness, and the mutability of his promises and beliefs were huge red flags.
Now Trump is the president-elect. Short of some enormous, unlikely, and unforeseen event, he will become the president in less than three months. Now things are starting to happen in the prospective Trump administration, and they’re not just talk. People are being appointed to positions, and each appointment says something about him. He is making statements in a non-combative atmosphere (if any atmosphere around a naturally combative person such as Trump can properly be called non-combative).
Let’s take as an example the subject of immigration. Way back in the summer and fall of 2015, I spent a lot of time explaining how many different points of view Trump had expressed on the subject, including deporting virtually all illegal immigrants, letting people back in, and a history of support for amnesty. I explained that he wasn’t the only one of the candidates with hardline immigration positions, either (see this). I wrote that there are inherent logistical and legal stumbling blocks involved in building a wall that are part of the reason it hasn’t been finished, and that lack of will isn’t the only factor and that Trump or anyone else would have to deal with these impediments, too.
Trump supporters would sometimes say that what Trump said mattered and he would stick to it, and they’d ignore the points I was making. But sometimes they’d say it didn’t matter, because they were supporting him for other reasons: his outspokenness, his feistiness, or even because he would destroy the Republican Party. And at times it seemed as though he would destroy the Republican Party, whether that was his goal or not; that turned out to not be true.
Well, that was then, and this is now. Now we have nothing to decide about Trump anymore except what we think of him as president. There are no more votes for us to cast. Now my task (and I think everyone’s task, too) is to take a look at what he’s saying he will do, the appointments he will make—and then, most important of all, what he really does and what Congress does in cooperation or opposition to him, and what the consequences are in the real world.
Trump was the Shrodinger’s Cat candidate, whose “policies existed in a state of being both pragmatic and radical, all at the same time.” If you recall Schrodinger’s Cat, however, at a certain point the quantum superposition “interacts with or was observed by the external world, at which time the superposition collapses into one or another of the possible definite states.”
In other words, at some point (and that point began in the wee hours of Wednesday morning, November 9), Trump stopped being a candidate who could profess contradictory policies at once, or extreme policies to please his supporters, and started to be a president-elect taking action as such. At first, those actions would be appointments. But soon they will be more, and the cat will be alive or dead, or if alive it will be sickly or well or something in-between.
Am I the only one who discounts politicians stump promises? Some are just impossible – it’s like presidents “creating” jobs. THey don’t. Most of the stuff both of them promised should require some Congressional buy in I admit I am chuffed that the R;s took the Senate. In some respects, all of Trumps promises parallel the “dense pack” of Obama scandals. No matter what you want you”ll find it, along with something to be scared of. I am interested in his appointees, according to my husband’s advice to forget voting for a president, vote for the deputy assistant secretaries who get appointed. So far the transition team looks good. One thing we don’t want is Bush admin retreads. However, I think the Bush family has blotted its copybook enough with Trump that that isn’t likely
‘But soon they will be more, and the cat will be alive or dead, or if alive it will be sickly or well or something in-between.’
Had to chuckle at that – pretty much covers all possible stages of cat. Might as well have deleted everything after the cat will be.
Defcon nuclear threat REDUCED to safest level following Donald Trump victory
AMERICA’S Defcon warning level has been reduced to its safest threat level possible following Donald Trump’s shock presidential election win.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/732135/donald-trump-election-defcon-reduced-level-5-safest-level
and if that isnt bad enough
Satellites: No global warming at all for 18 years 8 months
The RSS satellite dataset shows no global warming at all for 224 months from May 1997 to December 2015 — more than half the 444-month satellite record.
There has been no warming even though one-third of all anthropogenic forcings since 1750 have occurred since 1997.
Related: It’s Official — There are now 66 excuses for Temp ‘pause’ — Updated list of 66 excuses for the 18-26 year ‘pause’ in global warming Flashback 1974: ’60 theories have been advanced to explain the global cooling
“…. and the cat will be alive or dead, or if alive it will be sickly or well or something in-between.”
It could even be, dare I say it, great again.
Vanderleun:
Cats are never great.
In general, yes. But when it comes to Schrodinger’s Cat you really can’t be sure.
neo,
You obviously have never met my cat.
I’m not comforted by the elevation of Reince Priebus. Trump is awfully chummy with the GOPe for an “outsider.”
Filing Matt into the basket of deplorables marked “Never Happy”
This is an excellent analogy, neo-neocon.
Is there a cat in that basket?
Trump’s behavior is entirely predictable: he’s an extreme pragmatist.
If you’d profiled Trump, as I’m sure Putin has, you’d know that he’s a classic ‘Emperor.’
See John Wareham’s personality types.
Trump is just about certain to eclipse Reagan.
Why?
GOP House
GOP Senate
Filibuster has been nuked by Reid
One USSC justice to sellect, probably more, too.
I expect him to privatize NPR, PBS. They have no reason for being.
I expect that Trump will unleash the DoJ upon the Corporate State — for massive violations of the Sherman Anti-trust Act.
“The Ministry of Truth” has to be put out of business.
I know that Trump thinks in terms of tariffs. A $25/ bbl tariff on non-NAFTA crude oil would kill a flock of birds.
Overnight, a million jobs would be created. The current world price for crude oil is being gamed down by Riyadh. It’s weaponized. It’s not a price that the world can live with.
Deportations occur the same way they came in, by themselves.
Once you take away the un-earned, un-deserved benefits, the illegals can’t make a go of it. They find their way back to mom and dad in the old country mighty quick.
The USA can’t possibly support the welfare needs of the entire planet.
The reason that Japan and Europe have such low reproduction rates is that they are too crowded. Things will turn around in a hurry once population densities reach a stable level.
I expect Trump to fully halt the hijrah that’s under way.
Filing Vanderleun into the basket of backtrackers. What happened to “burn it down,” V? Or did you decide you like the view from the country club?
Oh, and I believe that my earlier assertions about wayward polling numbers stand up to scrutiny.
Thus far, Trump has adapted, if in his own cruder style, Obama’s playbook.
Obama says he’s doing something, appears to be doing that or something not quite but like it, and if you dig in or it blows up, you discover he’s up to something else altogether.
A difference is Obama had the media covering for him. I don’t expect the same ‘Team Obama’ echo chamber for Trump. But the media may effectively provide Trump cover another way. They may opt for cartoonish coverage of Trump that misses the salient point and thus obfuscates his nation steering that way.
Vanderleun:
I’m sure about Schrodinger’s Cat. You know why? I peeked.
Eric — Yep, starting with his echoing Obama’s “I won” a couple of days after the election in his interview with the Wall St. Journal.
No peeking. It doesn’t work if you peek after Trump peaks.
Dear Matt, “Burn it down” is still on the table. What do you think that red laser dot on your forehead is all about?
Eric:
I think you are correct. The MSM actually helps Trump when it criticizes him too much, because it becomes apparent they are picking on him, and then he gets away with things he shouldn’t get away with
In much the same way but opposite, I believe that the MSM may have lulled Clinton into thinking she was safer than she was, by shielding her from the news of the intense dissatisfaction with her.
If you recall Schrodinger’s Cat, however, at a certain point the quantum superposition “interacts with or was observed by the external world, at which time the superposition collapses into one or another of the possible definite states.”
It’s like that photo slit experiment.
But there’s a theory that applies the above to faith and knowledge as well (human knowledge that is).
What do you think that red laser dot on your forehead is all about?
To help the GOP E and Bush 2 finger paint.
But the media may effectively provide Trump cover another way.
They did that to Bush II on OIF as well. Complaining about body armor and everything else that had nothing to do with defeating AQ in Iraq, and in fact took away resources and attention from improving things Cheney had to pick up Petraeus by other channels. No amount of “more troops” pulled from Germany and other stations like South Korea, would produce the COIN utilized by Petraeus and the search and kill missions in Iraq. “More troops” became the mantra of Shinigami Shinseki and other Democrat generals, mostly because it would get more Americans killed and also benefit their own armed forces budgets.
Cats rule; and Siamese cats rule best. She reminds me at 6am every morning.
Matt, I am not the first to respond; but, must have my say anyway. A sophisticated observer of politics–of any period, but especially in 21 century America– knows full well that nothing will happen without cooperation from the so called insiders. Unless of course the individual advocates true Despotic rule; and I still doubt that is possible in America. Trump can set the tone, and establish his priorities; but he can also be stymied if he doesn’t play the game according to the rules.
R. Priebus has proven to be a very effective coordinator, and played a large role in handing Trump the luxury of a GOP House and Senate to work with. I believe unreservedly that the Priebus appointment is inspired; and it gives me more hope than I had a few days ago.
Blert
“Trump is just about certain to eclipse Reagan.”
Well, look, I’m working on trying to be optimistic, but this is a bit over the top.
But I’ve been nothing but wrong about Trump so far, so who knows.
“I know that Trump thinks in terms of tariffs. A $25/ bbl tariff on non-NAFTA crude oil would kill a flock of birds.
Overnight, a million jobs would be created. The current world price for crude oil is being gamed down by Riyadh. It’s weaponized. It’s not a price that the world can live with.”
Explain? What are the million jobs that would be created? Are you talking about unleashing the US’s energy exploration/fracking/etc? We’re already oversupplied (although I guess your tariff would take care of that). Drive up the price of oil, to rev up the energy business? Energy independence? What?
I’m honestly interested in what you’re getting at here.
I’m in the energy business, btw.
1) Start off by realising that the Saudis are gaming the industry. Today’s price for OPEC oil is wholly artificial — and the Saudis can’t keep it up.
This is not a matter of how much oil they can pump.
It’s a matter of financial survival for Riyadh.
2) Riyadh’s welfare budget is ramping away FAR faster than our own monster. It’s because all that free sugar is birthing a LOT of babies.
And, for all practical purposes, a Saudi national is totally worthless as a productive individual.
Their culture sustains the notion that a proper Saudi is a warrior and a sex machine. Further, that a truly noble Saudi spends his time Islamicly: jihad and study.
Only a mere handful of princes have any real authority to direct that nation. It’s an absolute monarchy of the worst ilk.
An exponentially ramping population used to every indulgence eventually overtakes any income stream.
The Saudis are merely ramping faster than the West.
3) A tariff would protect our industry and terminate the Saudi game plan// economic warfare.
Once they discover that Trump won’t let them bankrupt our industry, the Saudis will reverse course — quite literally overnight — and the world price of oil will pop back up over $100 bbl.
The proposed oil tariff would lapse when such a price is reached.
So it’s shelf-life figures to be pretty limited.
This is exactly the kind of thinking that animate Donald’s brain.
It’s a variation on tit-for-tat.
Today’s fake oil price is sending all the wrong signals to the global economy.
&&&&
The Clinton Political Machine ran a campaign of pure ad hominem.
So it’s no surprise that many folks are riven with fear.
Especially those immersed in the echo chamber that is blue county America.
&&&&
Reagan was capped by what Tip O’Neill would permit.
He was also obstructed by the filibuster… which Reid has nuked. It now only exists for a sub-set of Senate activity.
This has not yet sunk in on most. The average Joe just does not understand how impossible it was for Reagan to get his programs — the way they were drafted — through Congress.
I fully expect Trump to emulate Jackson, FDR, and Teddy Roosevelt in terms of activity.
Reviving the Sherman Anti-trust Act has to begin straight away.
With Hillary we were headed for WWV. Trump has stopped that war before it was even begun — and he’s not even sworn in to office.
He’s also killed TPP and much else.
Even Reagan didn’t have that much impact.
Trump wants his profile on Mount Rushmore. That’s what’s driving him. It’s a good thing.
There is no practical difference between Saudi Arabia dumping oil on the world market, artificially depressing prices and what the Chinese are doing dumping steel on the world market.
We responded, rightfully so, with a 500% tariff on Chinese steel. We should do the same with Saudi oil.
How does a European depression help us? Because that’s what would happen under this oil price scenario. But wait – why would oil prices go up to $100 per barrel if we’ve just raised our tariffs?
I didn’t mean to imply we should put a 500% tariff on imported oil, just that we have a duty to protect industries when they’re being targeted by foreign companies.
By the way the EU also imposed tariffs on Chinese steel.
Tariffs are a double edged sword. SA and the ME in general are not our main off shore sources of oil. Let SA depress the price and have less cash for promoting jihad. We can out last them.
Resource extraction is not a major creator of jobs, but those jobs it creates tend to pay well. China is a different problem, as was Japan 20 years ago. Sometimes problems are solved by letting things sort themselves out.
“And, for all practical purposes, a Saudi national is totally worthless as a productive individual.”
Blert, you kind of suck.
It’s this kind of racist cr@p that I CANNOT GET AWAY FROM with the enthusiastic Trump supporters.
“Today’s fake oil price is sending all the wrong signals to the global economy.”
Um, the price is what it is. Price is just a measurement of reality. This is what people will give for a product.
The Saudi’s have every right to produce – and even to try to flood the market to keep prices down so we can’t economically frack.
We’re beating them at this game. We’ve been very good at learning how to do some very expensive and complex things (horizontal drilling, fracking, etc) more cheaply and are keeping up. And everyone’s enjoying energy that is affordable, but stabilizing in price.
Look, it would be very good for me personally if the price of oil went to $100/bbl. But I also know that raising energy prices have adverse effects on a lot of people.
But the idea that with a stroke of his pen Trump can raise the price to $100/bbl is dumb.
Conservatives used to be for market forces, the free market. We used to know that every government action has an equal and opposite reaction, that the law of unintended consequences was a piece of legislation congress ALWAYS passed (P.J. O’Rourke made that observation). We knew that tariffs, trying to pick winners and losers was fraught with risk.
The energy industry is down right now, but it’s adjusting, adapting, surviving, getting better at what it does. It’s actually kind of an exciting time to be in it.
I’d personally like to let the market take care of itself. What would help the energy industry is for Government to take it’s grimy hands off of the economy, or at least loosen the grip a bit, lower regulations, allow the economy to work. A revved up economy means more energy use and there’s your higher prices right there.
I miss the days when the Republican party was conservative.
Bill:
The GOP was never conservative.
It was always a Big Tent, at least since as far back as I can remember.
Conservatives. Some libertarian-ish folks. Middle of the road Rockefeller Republicans. Neocons (if you’ll pardon the expression). Paleocons. And yes, some racists found a home there at times (although they used to keep their mouths shut more often)—both racist-lite and racists of a more extreme variety.
I’ve never been able to get a bead on the proportions of all these groups within the party. I think the conservative wing and the libertarian wing have both grown in the last 50 years or so, slowly but surely. I also think they are by far the biggest wings. I don’t know the size of the other wings, but they have always been there.
You’re right Neo.
I think what has me shook up is that now there’s this new big government nationalism strain – the desire for our own strong man. A government that is constantly jiggling the levers. I’m not a fan. I don’t trust government to do this well. Let’s just say I’m not as optimistic as Blert.
I’ve always wanted a boring president and a government that leaves us alone 🙂
Interesting take on why Saudis won’t cut production.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/01/12/saudi-arabia-oil-production/2/#7fbba55320fd
I’ve also read that Saudi’s plan to sell of a portion of Aramco, generating $2 trillion, and then diversify.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-01/saudi-arabia-plans-2-trillion-megafund-to-dwarf-all-its-rivals
It’s this kind of racist cr@p that I CANNOT GET AWAY FROM with the enthusiastic Trump supporters.
Oh that’s not racist, that’s just Arabic culture.
Lawrence of Arabia anyone? Look that guy up.
Bill, since your such a free market guy, was it a net positive for the country for:
TVA
Grand Coulee Dam
Hoover Dam
Interstate Highway System
DARPA
Apollo program
What would the country be like without them?
Y,
Yes, it is just Arabic culture. Same goes for Afghani culture. Nothing can be done.
Bill:
You write: “I’ve always wanted a boring president and a government that leaves us alone.”
That doesn’t seem to be what most people want, though, even on the right. Maybe it’s just human nature.
But maybe Trump will overstep, get impeached, and we’ll get Pence. He’s pretty boring, and I think he’d be more inclined to leave us alone. 🙂
I really don’t understand why the NeverTrump rhetoric is still being flung about. Trump was elected. He’s going to be President.
He’ not going to overstep, get impeached, and/or go away. He’s a negotiator. That’s what he does. As any good negotiator knows, if you start off with a reasonable offer, you end up with the other side beating you down. If you start off with an unreasonable position, you can end up reasonably close to where you want to be, and the other side thinks they’ve won.
Forex, “I’m going to deport all illegals on my first day in office” — “I’m going to deport all illegals during my term of office” — “I’m going to deport all criminal illegal aliens and then we’ll see.”
Or, “I’m going to expel all Muslims from the US” — “I’m not going to admit any Muslims to the US” — “I’m not going to admit any Muslims from the Middle East” — “I’m not going to admit any Muslims from countries with terrorist activity” — “I’m not going to admit any Muslims from countries with terrorist activity unless they pass ‘extreme vetting.'”
This has been explained here repeatedly, but you just don’t want to listen.
Brian E:
Other gifts of BIG GOVERNMENT:
The Great Depression
The EPA. Achieved the 90% improvement in the reduction of pollution and is now spending exponentially to achieve the last 10% (asymptotic task, impossible).
The Dept. of Energy. Knows how to make waste, waste money, but no so good at actually cleaning up waste.
How’s that for a start?
Richard Saunders:
“We” know he has been elected and isn’t going away. “We” don’t need anything special to see and know those facts. However, “we” don’t have the special senses that enable “us” to read his mind or “know” what he will do. I suggest you don’t “know” either. I suggest you are hoping he will do the right things as do “we.”
Brian E links to an article about the Saudi strategy. Diversification, i’s the name of the game. 🙂 But there was this tidbit in the article: “Saudi Arabia has pursued this goal of economic diversification for 40 years, with limited success. Now the question is whether it can accelerate that process.”
Their diversification probably cannot be carried out because as blert and parker point out they cannot get their men to work after all these years of having the life of an Arab warrior (well sorta). From Wiki:
“According to official figures in 2012, foreign workers filled 66 per cent of jobs in Saudi Arabia, despite an official unemployment rate of 12 per cent amongst Saudis, ……”
and this:
“Although the country’s reliance on foreign workers has been a concern to the Saudi government since the mid-1950s, the situation has persisted because of a reluctance by Saudis to take on menial work and a shortage of Saudi candidates for skilled jobs. This has, in part, been blamed on the Saudi education system, which has been criticized for its emphasis on religion and rote learning.”
A friend was an airline instructor who spent 4 months taking three Saudi crews through a B-737 training program. The program was normally taught in 1 1/2 months to western educated crews. The problem for these Muslim pilots was that they found it hard to accept the idea that an engine or hydraulic failure was the will of Allah and nothing could be done to remedy the situation. We can’t comprehend this mindset, but it is real.
Saudi Arabia is going to be just like Yemen when the oil runs out. The Saudi royals will all move to Switzerland and live off their Swiss bank accounts, but the average Saudi is going SOL.
Richard Saunders:
What “NeverTrump rhetoric” are you talking about?
Because I don’t see any NeverTrump rhetoric. Everyone here accepts Trump’s presidency, unless I missed something. People are speculating on what it would be like.
Unless you believe that people shouldn’t even speculate on whether anything negative could possibly happen with Trump the Great at the helm of the ship of state?
If you’re talking about my comment here, did you happen to notice the little yellow smiley face? The one that screams this is a JOKE, in case it wasn’t already obvious?
When Obama took office, I looked at his reading list, and was almost in despair. There was nothing on it that would help him be a good president. (Check my January 2009 archives, if you are curious.)
As far as I can tell, Trump hasn’t read any serious books in at least 40 years. (Judging by an unguarded comment he made, it is possible that he hasn’t even read all of his own ghost-written books.)
(If any of you know of any serious books he has read, I’d appreciate a link to the articles mentioning them.)
No one, including Trump, knows what he will do 90, 120, or 365 days from now. The donald is going to continue to be the donald. He is not an old dog that learns new tricks. But I would like to be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong. The office of POTUS is a heavy burden. We shall see how he shoulders the weight. Come January he will be our president, all hail the new boss.
Brian E.
I’m for limited government. I’m not an anarchist.
But I’m not talking a hit government programs like Apollo. I’m talking about government artificially jacking with prices with targeted tax breaks, subsidies, tariffs, trade barriers, etc. Picking winners and losers. Usually there are unintended consequences.
I’d like that kept to a minimum. I’m a small government/limited powers conservative.
The problem is that back-breaking can be very wasteful.
Imagine Trump pushes on with his wall, gets half-way through and loses interest in the shit storm and the cost. Then you’ve got the worst possible result – an expensive useless half wall.
Good politicians take their time making a decision, then don’t change it. Pretty much the opposite of the traits Trump has displayed recently.
Actually, he’ll need two walls, because Canada and Mexico have signed an agreement to allow Mexicans to travel, without visas, to Canada.
I think it is fair to conclude that the people smugglers have already figured out how to use that to their advantage.
And, as everyone knows — all right, as everyone should know — about half the illegals here in the US came in legally, and overstayed their visas.
Jim Miller:
As far as I know, Trump is not a reader.
However, there were two formative books he was raised on, as described here:
There’s no question he took those books to heart.
neo-neocon Says:
November 15th, 2016 at 4:33 pm
Vanderleun:
I’m sure about Schrodinger’s Cat. You know why? I peeked.
* * *
I went to Schrodinger’s, and all I got was the T shirt.
https://www.google.com/search?q=schrodinger%27s+cat+t+shirt&espv=2&biw=1396&bih=668&tbm=isch&imgil=LWyfiLyNTP5DlM%253A%253BwCCEiBT2SAcZWM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.aliexpress.com%25252Fstore%25252Fproduct%25252FFashion-The-Big-Bang-Theory-T-Shirts-Men-Sheldon-Cooper-Schrodinger-Cat-Alive-Printing-T-Shirt%25252F1746176_32307249622.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=LWyfiLyNTP5DlM%253A%252CwCCEiBT2SAcZWM%252C_&usg=__aOZuEEqqnVTrvbvyqdU6aJC-49c%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiSpb2JyqzQAhUJ0mMKHbklBGQQyjcIqAE&ei=TPMrWJLPE4mkjwO5y5CgBg#imgrc=9yU1_bQqhmnxmM%3A
Eric Says:
November 15th, 2016 at 4:31 pm
Thus far, Trump has adapted, if in his own cruder style, Obama’s playbook.
Obama says he’s doing something, appears to be doing that or something not quite but like it, and if you dig in or it blows up, you discover he’s up to something else altogether.
A difference is Obama had the media covering for him. I don’t expect the same ‘Team Obama’ echo chamber for Trump. But the media may effectively provide Trump cover another way. They may opt for cartoonish coverage of Trump that misses the salient point and thus obfuscates his nation steering that way.
* * *
Very astute point about Obama, although it boils down to “he lied” —
the media will almost certainly opt for any kind of coverage other than balanced, rational, objective , etc.
cartoonish certainly.
And they’ll lie.
http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-shouting-fields.html
“But, trust requires an ethic of good behavior. It requires that we know right from wrong and to act accordingly. It requires that you do so consistently. It requires that we hold everyone to the same standards, to the point where we do not excuse those who have appallingly bad manners. But, trust must be earned. Perhaps the New York Times will earn back the trust that it squandered in its crusade to elect Hillary Clinton. Time will tell.”
Bill,
I agree with most of your comments. But butting heads with vanderleun (for example) is pointless. He/she/it will never acknowledge your pov, and you can never change his/her/its alt-right pov. My unsolicited advise is just walk away.
Neo:
“each appointment says something about him”
Maybe. It’s up to Trump how he uses them. Any one could be used as window dressing or critical regardless of the same position’s use by past administrations.
We know nothing. Absolutely nothing. (Except that we know nothing.)
We can only speculate.
We dodged a bullet with HRC.
We can only hope for the best with DJT.
And hope it doesn’t come to this:
https://no-pasaran.blogspot.co.il/2016/11/we-must-resist-monarchismeven-when.html
File under: Hope and hope….
I see Trump as Leninist, that is, a very pragmatic about means and just as principled about end goals. And this is the only winning strategy in a serious political struggle. Don’t misunderestimate the man, he is very smart and clever, with a horse sense much more powerful to see actual situation and openings for deadly attack than all political analysts combined. He will certainly outfox the present mediocre political class at every turn. He knows for sure what political revolution is and how to bring it to frution. And he is a revolutionary, who can make a Reagan conservative revolution a picknic in comparison. He knew the man and learned a lot from him.
Bill, et. al., the Saudi strategy is lifted from John D Rockefeller’s consolidation of the oil industry circa 1887.
The intent is to create monopoly for the long run.
The short term benefits that consumers now see are fake and insignificant. They can’t possibly last.
That Forbes piece was a hoot.
What a crock.
No WAY can Riyadh sit still as their currency crashes. They are going through their stash at a rate of 1.5% per month, at least.
They are fighting a hot war in Yemen and financing ISIS.
All of the talk about the Saudis winning this current market share war is just PR spin.
At $100 per bbl, the Saudis are just treading water.
That’s how huge their social spending burden is.
I went round and round about the absurd polling stats. Nothing sunk in. Then reality hit.
Spelling out the truth about Saudi culture is equated with racism.
News flash, culture is largely enduring. And no, humanity is not wired the same everywhere.
Other harsh facts: the King of Saudi Arabia pays the salaries for every imam in the USA — that is Wahhabist. That’s about 4 out of 5. Every last one is a KSA national here on green papers, at least at first.
The balance of imams are paid by other alien despots. Erdogan pays the salary for countless imams in Germany. Yes, they are on Turkey’s public payrolls. They are deemed civil servants.
This scheme is in gross violation of the First Amendment. They constitute a state sponsored religion. It’s even worse when you realize that the state doing the sponsoring is a hostile, alien, despotic power.
Every last imam should be ejected from America.
I wouldn’t allow Nazis or the SS to open up ‘churches’ in the USA, either.
BTW, the Saudis are unrepentant Nazis in all but name. They only lack the stage presence of Adolf Hitler. They also intend to conquer the entire planet, but of course.
Bill, the Saudis have put oil prices on the floor for hostile reasons, not as the result of market forces.
Get a grip.
Rockefeller pulled the exact same stunts. They are now illegal by way of the Sherman Anti-trust act. All through his depredations, his PR staff was spouting the same economic nonsense seen in your posts in this thread.
Once Riyadh is back in the cat bird seat, you’ll rue your ‘free market’ position.
You’re looking straight at economic warfare, at its most basic.
Oil prices will rebound the second Riyadh realizes that Trump is on to their game — and won’t let them win.
It really is that simple.
And, no, the Saudi cost to produce a barrel of oil is ~$100. Their fixed cost social over head HAS to be paid for, too. It has to be folded into every production cost calculation — not omitted as if Riyadh was in West Texas, and welfare was the concern of Austin or Washington.
When I called Trump Leninist I meant that his pragmatism is inseparable from his radicalism and will not collapse to one thing or other after inaguration, this combination will continue throughout his cadence and is symbolically represented in his choice of principal staffers: a very pragmatical Reince and a very radical Bannon.
Sergey… Trump is more flexible than radical.
As a liberal New Yorker, born and bred, he’ll stay with his roots.
He has NEVER advocated the radical ideas espoused by Hillary.
He’s closer to Polk and Jackson than Lenin.
Polk was a master negotiator, too.
He negotiated the state of Washington. You’d be impressed as to how slick his dealings were.
Did you know that Polk gave the Hudson’s Bay Company residual rights to the Columbia river? This proved critical to the entire deal.
Today’s high school students know nothing of it.
Trump, I thought, was a lousy candidate.
I NEVER thought he’d be a lousy president.
The same is true for Carly Fiorina. She’d be PERFECT in the office. She just couln’t survive the smears of the MSM.
In retrospect, I was shocked as to how FEW damaging hits the MSM inflicted upon Donald.
I thought that their ammo was much more damaging.
My bad.
I did nail the fact that Trump would win the vote.
I have NO doubt that Hillary’s stats include millions of fraudulent tabulations.
Trump MUST put the urban Democrat machines out of business.
That’s best done by un-funding them.
They will die without Republican blood// oxygen.
Neo – The Frontline program, “The Choice” — which somewhat to my surprise I have been recommending to readers — describes the church and its influence on Trump.
(I assume the program is still available at their site, but haven’t checked recently.)
To me, the most interesting thing in the program is the part where a Wall Street analyst describes how he warned people that Trump’s casino was in financial trouble. Trump got the analyst fired — and the casino was bankrupt within six months.
As for Trump’s own books, I am reminded of the sports star (Philadelphia?) who had a book written for him. When a reporter asked him about something in the book, he said, more or less: “I don’t know, I haven’t read it yet.’
A few weeks ago, Trump said something similar, though not as candid.
I would guess that he didn’t write his books, but may have produced them.
Blert: I also earlier said that Trump reminds me Jackson, if not in personality, but sure in the nature of political revolution he heralded. I just happen to know much more about Lenin than about Jackson.
Those who call Trump a radical should understand that he is a businesman and all his radical promisses are negotiation positions and can be negotiated, if the price is right.
Also from that Frontline program: One of the bankers who had to clean up Trump’s horrible bankruptcy mess says that he learned that Trump is not, let me repeat, not, a businessman, but a promoter.
This conclusion (which I had seen earlier in the campaign) came as a surprise to me, because he is always described as a businessman — but it does explain why no major US bank will lend to him.
Blert,
“Other harsh facts: the King of Saudi Arabia pays the salaries for every imam in the USA – that is Wahhabist. That’s about 4 out of 5. Every last one is a KSA national here on green papers, at least at first.
The balance of imams are paid by other alien despots. Erdogan pays the salary for countless imams in Germany. Yes, they are on Turkey’s public payrolls. They are deemed civil servants.
This scheme is in gross violation of the First Amendment. They constitute a state sponsored religion. It’s even worse when you realize that the state doing the sponsoring is a hostile, alien, despotic power.”
I don’t believe you. 4 out of 5 Imams in the US are paid by the Saudi government? Really?
Link/background/study/something to back this up? I’m ready to be wrong – enlighten me with some authoritative data.
“This scheme is in gross violation of the First Amendment. They constitute a state sponsored religion. It’s even worse when you realize that the state doing the sponsoring is a hostile, alien, despotic power.
Every last imam should be ejected from America.
I wouldn’t allow Nazis or the SS to open up ‘churches’ in the USA, either.”
Ejecting every last Imam from America would be a gross violation of the Bill of Rights, particularly regarding the ones who are American citizens.
The first amendment would allow Nazis to create churches if they wanted to. Even if we all thought that was awful.
All this “Freedom for me, not for thee” stuff is disgusting.
Regarding your take on Saudi culture – I understand different cultures are different. The issue I have is the broad brush painting which is the definition of racism and also the fact that you post all sorts of stuff here without any background and, frankly, I don’t believe you. I think you’re making stuff up or passing off information you heard from some fever swamp on the alt-right.
On a side note, one reason I left the GOP was because it finally dawned on me that all the posturing about fidelity the Constitution, strict constructionism, limits to executive power, etc was just that – posturing.
A lot of Republicans don’t really believe that, do they? Not now that it’s their guy in power.
We have people on this thread who think it would be GREAT to deport American Citizens (back where they came from?) because of their religious beliefs.
I need a new party. The GOP sucks. The Democrats suck. And the Constitution is just a “guideline”. You didn’t really believe what you said about it, you just said it because Democrats were in power.
Yes, different cultures are different, but some of them are so different that need to be reduced to scorched earth if our culture wants to survive.
Painting by broad brush is not racism, but a preliminary analysis, and more fine analysis make the picture even more disgusting. And Islam is not a race and even is not a religion, but a totalitarian political ideology of the world domination by war of conquest and terror to infidels, completely antithetical to everything Western culture stands for, and hardly distingishable from Nazi in its methods and ultimate goals.
“This scheme is in gross violation of the First Amendment.”
What nonsense, Blert. I’ve seen you make many laughably ignorant statements about the law on this site, but this one takes the cake.
The First Amendment applies only to the government of the United States. It has no control over any foreign government or, for that matter, over any private citizen or non-citizens. Nobody who had the most basic grasp of how laws work could believe otherwise. Here, just read it for crissakes.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
“We have people on this thread who think it would be GREAT to deport American Citizens (back where they came from?) because of their religious beliefs.” – Bill
And who would that be?
“And who would that be?”
Blert, and possibly Sergey.
You obviously haven’t read his contract with the American Voter. no surprise there, it is part and parcel with your overall cluelessness. it’s sad (for you) that your moral blindness precludes you from participating in the great renewal. at least you will have your ballet videos on youtube.
“That doesn’t seem to be what most people want, though, even on the right.” – Neo
This is the kicker of it all.
I don’t know for a fact, but I’d be rather willing to bet that most of the folks here calling for trump government to do the various things being proposed, in these comments sections, were also ones to call out several GOP leaders as “RINO!!!”, in recent years, particularly on government intrusiveness and deficit spending.
Yet, several now speculate that trump is going to do this or that – hardly any of it trump had ever talked about – all of it major government intrusion.
I hear echos of “obama phone” in all this.
It is very much red team vs blue team.
Big government all the way down.
“Big government all the way down.”
Yep.
“On a side note, one reason I left the GOP was because it finally dawned on me that all the posturing about fidelity the Constitution, strict constructionism, limits to executive power, etc was just that — posturing.
A lot of Republicans don’t really believe that, do they? Not now that it’s their guy in power.“ – Bill
About sums it up.
It isn’t just yesterday’s “RINO!!!” yellers. It is with all the leaders and “conservative” media who made the case for small government, free enterprise, the Constitution, etc..
Now we know the reality to the words “Power Corrupts”.
Things that were once “bad” are now “good”, only because it is our guy saying and doing it.
I sincerely hope trump turns out much better than he has given every indication he is not.
Won’t mean I won’t call him out and expect accountability, as needed, even if it is unpopular to do so.
People who are dangerous enough to require deportation should be deported not back where they come from, but to gas chambers. Tzarnaev brothers came to mind.
“…Eighty percent of major mosques in America are under Saudi-Wahhabi influence, according to Stephen Schwartz, Director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism…”
“… Schwartz estimated that the Saudis have spent a minimum of $324 million on Islamic institutions in America by 2003…”
——-
Here’s more of the story:
“…In 2006, Bernard Lewis, arguably the leading western scholar on Islam, called Wahhabism “the most radical, the most violent, the most extreme and fanatical version of Islam.”
As to how much money Saudi officials have spent since the early 1970s to promote Wahhabism worldwide, David D. Aufhauser, a former Treasury Department general counsel, told a Senate committee in June 2004 that estimates went “north of $75 billion.” The money financed the construction of thousands of mosques, schools and Islamic centers, the employment of at least 9,000 proselytizers and the printing of millions of books of religious instruction…
…Eighty percent of major mosques in America are under Saudi-Wahhabi influence, according to Stephen Schwartz, Director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, an organization that “challenges the dominance of American Muslim life by militant Islamist groups” including control of property, buildings, training and appointment of imams, content of preaching, literature distributed in mosques and charitable solicitation.
Most of the Wahhabi mosques work closely with Saudi state funded organizations such as the Muslim World League (MWL) and the World Association for Muslim Youth (WAMY), institutions identified as participants in the funding of al Qaeda. The Council for American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a main Wahhabi ideological institution in America with a well-documented network of support for radical Islam, has received at least $750,000 from the Saudi government and its officials, including a donation by the Islamic Development Bank, a Saudi government-controlled financial institution, to purchase their headquarters in Washington D.C.
According to Schwartz’s testimony before the Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security on Thursday, June 26, 2003, the official Saudi government website stated in 2000, “In the United States, the Kingdom has contributed to the establishment of the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C.; the Omer Bin Al-Khattab Mosque in western Los Angeles, the Los Angeles Islamic Center, and the Fresno Mosque in California; the Islamic Center in Denver, Colorado; the Islamic center in Harrison, New York; and the Islamic Center in Northern Virginia.”
The Kingdom is also affiliated with the Bilal Islamic Primary and Secondary School and the King Fahd mosque, both in California, according to Nina Shea in her 2005 Freedom House Report “Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Invade American Mosques”. Shea, an international human-rights lawyer, is the director of the Center for Religious Freedom at the Hudson Institute. Additionally, the previously-mentioned official website of the Saudi Arabian government reported a donation of $4 million for the construction of a mosque complex in Los Angeles named for Ibn Taymiyyah, a historic Islamic figure whose works influenced Mohammed ibn Abd Wahhab. In his testimony, Schwartz estimated that the Saudis have spent a minimum of $324 million on Islamic institutions in America by 2003.”
http://dttj.blogspot.com/2010/08/saudi-arabias-funding-of-american.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-islam.html?_r=0
The number of mosques in the United States has grown from 1200 in 2000 to over 2100 by 2010.
Here is the true story of Schrodinger’s cat.
http://www.randombio.com/schrodingers-cat.html
Ejecting every last Imam from America would be a gross violation of the Bill of Rights, particularly regarding the ones who are American citizens.
“The first amendment would allow Nazis to create churches if they wanted to. Even if we all thought that was awful.” – Bill
_______
Not under sedition laws. Not if they were preaching the violent overthrow of the government.
This is where the problem with Islam gets sticky. Most folks agree that it is more of an ideology than a religion.
I assume that’s why Neo would bar Muslims for entering the US on ideological grounds, rather than religion, to the extent she wants to bar them.
What are the limits of speech? We accept the “yelling fire in a crowded theater” limitation, and when does rhetoric fomenting violence meet that standard?
Thank you Brian E, for going through the trouble to help Blert back up his claims. I appreciate the effort. Some thoughts below.
I did not challenge the idea that Saudi Arabia gives money to mosques in America (heck, I give money to churches out in foreign lands). I was challenging the ridiculous statistic from Blert that 4 out of 5 Imams in the US are actually paid by the Saudi king.
But what I was challenging with even more energy was the un-American proposal to expel American citizens and people here legally based upon their religion. And I’ll go to the mats on that one with anyone.
Would you join me on that? That’s a clear violation of the first amendment. We care about the constitution as conservatives, right? As Christians we push against a government that has been transgressing on religious liberty especially aggressively recently. We love the first amendment, right? To preserve it we need to make sure it’s preserved for everyone.
I’m – of course – not arguing for lack of action against people breaking laws, engaging in terrorist acts, etc.
But regarding the 80% statistic. You know how it goes – we can each out-google each other. Here’s a systematic take-down of that statistic with a timeline attached:
http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/02/02/zombie-lie-right-still-clinging-to-decade-old-f/175854
Now, is Saudi Arabia a funding source for terrorism? I believe so, yeah. I would certainly hope our government is being extremely vigilant in that. Giving money to mosques is not necessarily the same thing, though.
And regarding statistics, figures don’t lie, but liars can figure.
Read the link I posted if you’d like. My take on what you’ve posted: as I stated above, I don’t support at all a foreign government’s support of terrorism and if Saudi Arabia is doing that our country should crack down with sanctions and any other tool we have at our disposal. I stand with you in vigorous opposition to that.
Starting our own program of deportation and persecution in this country against people of non-Christian faith who have broken no laws and just want to practice their faith freely is something I will never support. And that’s what was being suggested, and that’s what I spoke up against.
Is Trump a pragmatist?
“Trump’s own philosophy, if he can be said to hold one, most closely mirrors that of the European populist far-right: Western civilization can only be protected by erecting walls and closing borders, and those within the walls and borders can be protected by a large, intrusive government providing vast social services. Trump rarely speaks of liberty or freedom, and never speaks about the Constitution unless prodded to do so by others.
…
pragmatism is a progressive philosophy. There is no clear consensus on “what works.” This is why elections matter, and why political ideology matters. It’s an empty conceit of arrogant politicians that they alone can determine, based on expert reading of facts, the best solution; they can’t.
…
There are only people who believe certain things about the world and masquerade as dispassionate problem-solvers.
Those people are almost invariably leftists” – Ben Shapiro
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442221/donald-trump-pragmatist-not-conservative
There was a day when such “pragmatism” expressed by GOP leaders was called out – “RINO!!!!”
“Starting our own program of deportation and persecution in this country against people (citizens) of non-Christian faith who have broken no laws and just want to practice their faith freely is something I will never support. And that’s what was being suggested, and that’s what I spoke up against.” – Bill
The Constitution only applies to people who agree with us, dontcha see, Bill?
Funny, in an absolutely non-humorous way, how things many complain about wrt the left, somehow is okay when applied in the opposite direction.
/s
Bill,
I try and avoid links to sites that are suspect like media matters.
I have no reason to doubt the quote that 80% (4 out of 5) of mosques are under the influence of Wahhabism.
Steven Schwartz is executive director of Center for Islamic Pluralism and there mission is:
Founded in Washington, DC in 2004, the Center for Islamic Pluralism (CIP) is a think tank that challenges the dominance of American Muslim life by militant Islamist groups. Specifically, our mission is to:
Foster, develop, defend, protect, and further mobilize moderate American Muslims in their progress toward integration as an equal and respected religious community in the American interfaith environment;
Define the future of Islam in America as a community opposed to the politicization of our religion, its radicalization, and its marginalization, which has taken place because of the imposition on Muslims of attitudes opposed to American values, traditions, and policies;
Educate the broader American public about the reality of moderate Islam and the threat to moderate Muslims and non-Muslim Americans represented by militant, political, radical, and adversarial tendencies.
http://www.islamicpluralism.org/about/
Yes, we need to tread lightly when dealing with religious conviction. Since once the left is back in power whatever laws are created to stem the influence of radical Islam in this country will be used against Christians.
You know, like putting bakers or photographers or florists out of business for being true to their religious convictions.
Brian E – I agree, especially with your last few paragraphs.
One nitpick:
“I have no reason to doubt the quote that 80% (4 out of 5) of mosques are under the influence of Wahhabism.”
Well, maybe. But I wasn’t disputing that. I was disputing the idea that 4 out of 5 Imams in the US are paid directly by the Saudi King.
Sergey:
What’s this “gas chamber” business?
In the US we have capital punishment, but gas chambers are rarely used these days and are never the primary method in any state.
More importantly, your more general suggestion is wrong. The Tsarnaev brothers were American citizens. They were not going to be deported for any reason. One is already dead, and the other is under a death sentence. In this country. So deportation has nothing to do with it.
But if you meant to apply it to non-citizens, it is wrong as well. A non-citizen is here at this country’s discretion (as is true of non-citizens in any sovereign nation, by the way). The bar for tolerance of illegal behavior is lower. Therefore, people can be deported for crimes that are not capital in nature. And you are suggesting they should be executed instead?
That seems to me to be a very bad suggestion.
Here is an interesting approach to limiting Saudi influence in the US:
_______
“Saudi Arabia may be the country in the world most different from the United States, especially where religion is concerned. An important new bill introduced by Rep. Dave Brat (R-Va.) aims to take a step toward fixing a monumental imbalance.
Consider those differences: Secularism is a bedrock U.S. principle, enshrined in the Constitution’s First Amendment; in contrast, the Koran and Sunna are the Saudi constitution, enshrined as the Basic Law’s first article.
Anyone can build a religious structure of whatever nature in the United States, so the Saudis fund mosque after mosque. In the kingdom, though, only mosques are allowed; it hosts not a single church — or, for that matter, synagogue, or Hindu, Sikh, Jain, or Baha’i temple. Hints going back nearly a decade that the Saudis will allow a church have not born fruit but seem to serve as delaying tactics.
Pray any way you wish in America, so long as you do not break the law. Non-Muslims who pray with others in Saudi Arabia engage in an illicit activity that could get them busted, as though they had participated in an drug party.
The United States, obviously, has no sacred cities open only to members of a specific faith. KSA has two of them, Mecca and Medina; trespassers who are caught will meet with what the Saudi authorities delicately call “severe punishment.”
Brat’s proposed bill, H.R. 5824, the “Religious Freedom International Reciprocity Enhancement Act,” makes it unlawful for “foreign nationals of a country that limits the free exercise of religion in that country to make any expenditure in the United States to promote a religion in the United States, and for other purposes.” Hello, Saudi Arabia!
To “promote a religion” includes funding “religious services, religious education, evangelical outreach, and publication and dissemination of religious literature.” Should funding proceed anyway in defiance of this bill, the U.S. government can seize the monies.
The bill needs more work: it omits mention of religious buildings, offers no criteria for seizure of property, and does not indicate who would do the seizing. But offers an important beginning. I commend it and urge its urgent consideration and adoption.
Americans cannot abide aggressive unilateral actions by Riyadh (or, for that matter, Tehran and Doha) exploiting their oil bonanza to smother the secularist principles basic to Western life. We must protect ourselves.”
Mr. Pipes (DanielPipes.org, @DanielPipes) is president of the Middle East Forum.
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/292188-no-saudi-money-for-american-mosques
“What’s this “gas chamber” business?”
If Sergey had been serious he would have said “taken out and shot”.
Brian E:
Let Sergey speak for himself, what he said was pretty unambiguous.
And regarding the Saudi Wahabbi mosque problem; if what Blert says is true regarding the KSA money problems at home and the prices of oil, how long will they continue funding mosques here if they can’t pay their own dole at home?
Brian E:
Sergey has said quite a few very extreme things lately.
I believe that we, all people belonging to Western civilization, are now at a brink of a real shoting war with militant Islam. There is now an illusion of peace and ability to counter jihad within legal framework of a democratic constitutional republic. But this “peace” is actually smoke and mirrors, and I expect that quite soon this illusion will be ruptured, with neccessary steps like introducing of state of emergency or martial law, when many constitutional guaranties will be suspended. And than we will be able to discuss these matters more pragmatically and less legalistically.
Bill, OM, BigMaq, Parker, etc., aren’t NeverTrumpers? Aren’t still NeverTrumpers after the election? OK, give me another name and I’ll be happy to use it.
Richard Saunders:
“NeverTrumpers” means something specific, and there were very few NeverTrumpers here. A better term night be TrumpSkeptics, or TrumpQuestioners, or something of the sort. A lot of people here did not like Trump, thought he was likely to lose, and yet were thinking very seriously of voting for him because of Hillary. You could also call them NeverHillary, because that’s very accurate.
Richard,
I was never Trump until he got elected. I’m still never Trump in philosophy – in other words I don’t support his re election at this point. But it’s academic because he got elected. I’m not a person who voted for him and still wouldn’t.
All that being said…
He’s the president. I plan on applauding when he does things that are good and pointing out when he does things that are wrong/bad/dumb.
Sergey:
What you suggesting is dangerously antithetical to liberty.
What’s more, let me remind you that the vast majority of illegal immigrants here are from the Southern Hemisphere and not even Muslim. And that the vast majority of their crimes are minor.
None of this suggests a death penalty or martial law for them. That is the way to tyranny.
There is something in the air, reminding 1914 again. Many domino are primed to fall all across Europe, with general elections due to held in several countries and huge waves of so-called refuges washing up at the shores of Europe. And the sense of inadequacy and impotence of political class to solve the impending crisis. I expect all papered wounds to open again in Bosnia, Kosovo, Serbia, and chaotic, ill-thought reactions of EU politicians to such emergencies. USA intervention like that stopped the war in 1990 is now improbable, and Europeans themselves have no means to seriously interfere. May be, I became a bit paranoid, but I worry, more and more with each coming week.
Sergey:
There’s plenty of cause for worry, which I share and many people here share. It’s a question of how to deal with it without an overreaction that leads to another kind of tyranny.
Mexicans are not a problem serious enough for a state of emergency, it is really only a matter of enforcing the laws already in books. But Syrian or Afgan refugees or Muslim Americans returning from their jihad tourism into ISIS training camps can do worse things than Boston Marathon bombing, and I do not know how to diffuse this ticking bomb within legal framework devised for ordinary crime management.
Sergey:
You weren’t in the country then, but back in the last century there were quite a few bombings and wanna be revolutionaries running amok (cultural insensitivity warning) in this country. Vietnam War, Weather Underground, Black Panthers, SLA for example. Somehow the country survived without Stassi, or the FSP, or the Gulag. Some ideas from the old country are best left there.
The US did the mass incarceration thing to Japanese Americans as a precaution during wartime, are you good with something like that or are more extreme measures “necessary?”
Sergey isn’t the only one posting here with extreme statements. No threatening mention of red lasers aimed at the foreheads of people he disagrees with. As Parker says, when they get to that point it is best to ignore them. I wonder if V has considered Primal Scream Therapy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primal_therapy
Bill Says:
November 16th, 2016 at 10:11 am
That the King pays ALL of their salaries is broadcast by the King’s own PR hacks — and very constantly, too.
Further, ALL of his imams are educated // indoctrinated in Saudi Arabia… and no-where else.
The Turks have the same scheme going for their imams.
This is all on the public record. It’s just news to the averaged Joe, or Bill.
There are no native born Americans in the ranks of the Wahhabi imams. NONE.
Their policy creed is scarcely different than Himmler’s SS. Yes, Himmler set up the SS as a clone of the Society of Jesus — the Jesuits. That’s why their routine uniform was black — and their dining out uniform was as white as the Pope’s.
The only film makers to get this right that I’ve seen are all Italians. They had plenty of opportunities to see the SS dress up for diner during the Nazi occupation of Northern Italy.
You are defending a Nazi state. This is the crowd that is still promoting the Protocols of Zion and Mein Kampf.
Get a grip.
Nazis and Wahhabists need to be universally shunned.
Ditto for those wacko mullahs in Tehran.
We get your virtue signaling.
Outrage against reality is not a strong argument.
OM Says:
November 16th, 2016 at 2:52 pm
They are the keystone of the King’s legitimacy, proof that he’s on jihad.
Hence, they’ll be the LAST things he cuts from his budget.
Without his big bucks, all of these mosques would blow away.
It is not part of Islamic culture for the average Habib to pay the tab for the mosque. The hat is passed strictly so that Habib can kick in to financially support jihad — and be on the right side of Allah.
Supporting jihad is OBLIGATORY.
It’s not an item that king or commoner can ignore.
Being a immigrant, on hijrah, constitutes almost the highest form of jihad.
Draining the West of economic resources is also deemed jihad. This is why so many fanatics in Europe are always discovered to be on the dole — even when they’ve got multiple side businesses spewing cash.
Blert:
All politics is local, when money runs low the king will reconsider or the royal family will be gone. No money to pay the Phillipinos, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, ,,,, things will be re-prioritized. Count on it.
Bill Says:
November 16th, 2016 at 12:44 pm
Thank you Brian E, for going through the trouble to help Blert back up his claims. I appreciate the effort. Some thoughts below.
I did not challenge the idea that Saudi Arabia gives money to mosques in America (heck, I give money to churches out in foreign lands). I was challenging the ridiculous statistic from Blert that 4 out of 5 Imams in the US are actually paid by the Saudi king.
&&&
This is repeatedly proclaimed by the King’s own PR hacks.
The King also paid for the whole mosque, too.
Any funding raised to build a mosque is not really used for such a purpose. It’s eventually diverted to jihad.
The King’s outlays on this matter have been staggering. The last time I noted, the King was proclaiming that he and his priors had spent well over $100,000,000,000 on this project.
The Wahhabist facility that indoctrinated Barry Soetoro was entirely funded by the King.
This is official Saudi state policy and can never be altered.
Jihad is MANDATORY for Muslims. No WAY can the King duck his responsibility.
The Qataris are involved in the exact same project, as they are Wahhabist, also.
Mrs Whatsit Says:
November 16th, 2016 at 11:06 am
The Founders never imagined that alien despots would fund hostile quasi-religious institutions in America.
And that these organs would then be able to duck and cover under your legal analysis.
The USSC has long ruled that substance matters more than form.
Too many cases to cite.
Richard Saunders,
I voted for djt, reluctantly, but voted for him. SO FUCK OFF and stick your smugness where the sun never shines. Sheesh, you and others like you are only a few degrees from being what you pretend to abhor… totalitarians. Retreat to your safe space and bemoan the fact that there are still a few who do not march in your parade. I could say more, but well, what would be the point in attempting to drill a hole in a skull so thick.
Counter Jihad will eventually became secret police and security services operation, with agents-provocateurs infiltrate mosques, religious communities, Muslim cultural centers, recruit informers and so on. It is a far cry from Gulag, though. More like German special agency BND, or Ochranka (Third Department of His Majesty Office) in Tzarist Russia, which proved to be very efficient in complete defeat of Russian terrorists and anarchists. Still not fully compliant with democratic traditions, especially if the scale of such undercover spying will dramatically expand, which is a certain thing. And it will inevitably include rather brutal interrogation methods.
If Israel practice of counter-terror is any indication, to be successful it demands administrative detention of suspects without court order and without bringing charges, for indefinite time period. This practice was not Israeli invention, it began in British Mandate Palestine as reaction to Arab terrorism, and was adopted by Israeli since then.
It also include secret trials of terror suspects not in civil courts but in special military tribunals so not to expose the sources of intelligence information and the methods of intelligence gathering. Tough for civil liberties defenders.
Today, Nov. 17, 2016, is 27 years after the Velvet Revolution in old Czechoslovakia, and is a holiday in Slovakia.
There is often a tradeoff between Freedom and Security — and those who feel insecure seldom support more freedom that increases insecurity.
I always knew I didn’t know what Trump would do, and still don’t. But in this case, there are a myriad of boxes with cats of unknown quality. Each policy is its own box, and in most cases Trump is very uncertain.
I expect lots of increased defense spending — tho I fear he’ll be OK with new, stupid earmarks.
I expect he’ll start building the Wall, and that will be a big jobs program, and work on the jobs program, with some reduction of illegal immigration.
I very much recall a hypothetical pair of guys arguing over splitting a cake:
First, we should each get half.
Second, no, I should get it all.
F: No, that’s unfair.
S: Ok let’s compromise.
F: OK, so we each get half.
S: No no no. We both agree that I get half, no disagreement. Now we talk about the second half — I should get it all, or some compromise part of it.
… They both agreed on the half for #2 — did I get this from The Art of the Deal? (I don’t think so, was not so memorable, but maybe).
This is the Donald, “promises”, in campaign mode — he wants the whole cake. To start with.
“there are a myriad of boxes with cats of unknown quality. Each policy is its own box, and in most cases Trump is very uncertain.” – Tom G
Seems like an appropriate analogy.
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“This is the Donald, “promises”, in campaign mode – he wants the whole cake. To start with.”
Only, he’s made statements in many cases that indicate he stands on the opposite side… indeed, part of the uncertainty.
But, yes, lots of folks “buy” the idea that trump is only taking an extreme position from which to negotiate down.
Instead, it might just be his “showmanship” coming through – a way to capture the media’s attention, and not a “position” after all.
Also, these “positions” have an ambiguous quality to them such that people can “read” into them what they want.
In some of these cases, they amount to “dog whistles” courting themes of the alt-r, courting the vote of those so motivated.
In other cases, they do address real concerns folks have – and this is where his support in the rust belt comes in, those who’ve been abandoned by the dems, but I believe they will be rather disappointed, as they will expect more (based on his rhetoric) than he can or will deliver.
The view from up North from David Warren
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Postmortem
A few observations after the USA election, occasioned by an amble around Greater Parkdale today, during which I witnessed two major anti-Trump psychiatric meltdowns; then several minor ones during a coffee-clatch discussion.
*
1. How easily the college-educated go barking mad.
2. The most reliable “safe space” is a padded cell. The least reliable ought to be on campus.
3. The new administration might want to consider “transitioning” several Ivy League universities into mental homes to serve an urgent public need.
4. If you think Trump is bad, you should read some history. It wouldn’t take much. His views, in the main (as stated, not as falsely attributed), would have passed as middle-of-the-road liberal about one generation ago. On many of the issues, Trump is farther Left. By traditional standards for despots and demagogues, he strikes me as fey.
5. Which is why I despise him. I didn’t like liberal mediocrities then, and I don’t like them now.
6. On the specific question of his taste in fixtures and furnishings (including likely cabinet choices), we must be firm. On the basis of his Manhattan apartment alone, I’d be inclined to appoint a Special Prosecutor.
7. I will hope he is sufficiently Machiavellian to nominate Ted Cruz for the Scalia vacancy on the Supreme Court.
8. And then he could make a personal appearance there, shouting and waving his little hands. That could create three more vacancies.
9. Melania and Michelle should do a sitcom together. (“Transition Team.”)
10. As of three-thirty a.m. the night before last, I achieved a state of happiness I had not enjoyed for a long time. And this was with the help of only one (1) 750mL bottle of strong Belgian monastic ale. (Chimay, the red label, from the Pé¨res Trappistes of Scourmont.) As I have indicated, I do not much care for that Donald fellow. But the defeat of Hillary was exhilarating.
11. Several gentle readers have written to congratulate me for correctly predicting the result of the election. But the truth is that I thought the Republicans would win by more. My private prediction was at least 7 percent on the popular vote, which would translate into an Electoral College landslide; plus substantial coat-tail gains in Congress; and every available Statehouse. I may have misunderestimated the number of dead people who would be voting, however; for dead people tend to vote Democrat.
12. He (Mr Trump) is, it should be said, a dangerous republican. He has already eliminated two political dynasties, within the USA (both the Bushes and the Clintons). Monarchists in Europe take note. Do not invite this man into your castles.
13. Up here in the Great Frigid North, we will have to build a wall, to stop Americans trying to cross our border. Most of them are, I admit, fairly harmless, sad-sack, refugee types, unlikely to overstrain our medicare system. But mixed in with them may be rappers, terrorists, CNN personalities, professional journalists, and Hollywood movie stars. Our airports may also have to be quarantined. This could cost us a lot of money, and we should send the bill to Trump.
14. Oh, I forgot, the Liberals won the last Canadian election. So instead, let them all in, and we’ll move to where it’s warmer. (Swap houses?)
15. I gather that Trump’s grandmother was a unilingual Gaelic speaker from the Outer Hebrides. This is where my maternal ancestors came from, too. Given the continuing hold of identity politics, could there be money in this for me?
16. One learns such things from e.g. The Buchan Observer, published near where Trump owns a golf course. Hence their headline yesterday: “Aberdeenshire business owner wins presidential election.”
17. It is said that the President-elect scares people; foreigners especially. This is the good news. The more they fear him, the better chance of peace.
18. Have you noticed that people who accuse him of hate crimes are frothing at the mouth? … No? …
19. I have.
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/
Maybe Trump does know something about the Chinese.
“Just days after Donald Trump secured the White House, the real-estate mogul scored a legal victory in a decadelong trademark dispute over the right to use his name in China for certain services.
The businessman-turned-politician’s application to register his Trump trademark to provide real-estate-agent services in commercial and residential properties in China, was provisionally approved Sunday after a yearslong legal fight.”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-scores-legal-win-in-china-trademark-dispute-1479169494
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Here’s something the former ambassador to China, Gary Locke (also former Washington state governor) had to say in an interview with a Hong Kong paper about Trump’s election:
Will the US become isolationist under Donald Trump?
Well, but at the same time, you’ve mentioned people that he’s considering for prominent positions that you said are considered to be hawks. So that’s why I say you really have to look at the totality of people surrounding him and who his key advisers will be and his key cabinet members will be. Are they hawks or are they ducks or are they isolationist or are they internationalist. It’s too early to tell. We don’t have the complete picture yet. But I hope he doesn’t become isolationist. I hope he stands for growing international trade and fair trade, [something] I’ve always believed in. Having more trade doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad trade. That’s why we should be supporting the TPP. Because that trade would be very high standard that would protect American workers and provide a level competition, fair competition for US companies. If people want to buy products made from other countries, that’s fine as long as there’s fair, open completion. Let people choose what they consider to be the best product. But it’s got to be done on even terms, with fairness.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2046650/former-top-us-envoy-china-gary-locke-trump-trade-and
Hmm, TPP was going to make Asian rim countries conform to the same health and safety regulations that American companies are held to. Why would they agree to that? They lose the advantages they have. Something is fishy here.
Here’s what the Chinese think of Locke when he stepped down in 2014:
The New York Times reports that the state-run China News Service took a “parting shot” at Locke and, among other things, called him a “banana.”
The term, considered offensive my many Asian-American, is used to slur someone as “yellow on the outside and white on the inside.”
Locke left his post talking about the need for China to cool tensions with Japan and the importance of China’s supporting human rights.
The Times says the news service wasn’t impressed:
“Gary Locke is a U.S.-born, third-generation Chinese-American, and his being a banana – ‘yellow skin and white heart’ – became an advantage for Obama’s foreign policy,” opened the commentary, written by a person identified as Wang Ping…
“However,” the commentary continued, “after a while, a banana will inevitably start to rot.”
Locke drew the scorn of the news service by going to such places as Tibet. It said he stirred “an evil wind” in such places….
“…Gary Locke’s biggest contribution was to tell the Chinese people what PM2.5 is, and also to tell Chinese ambassadors that they can fly economy class,” television actor Sun Haiying wrote in a weibo post.
The US embassy has released measurements of smog-induced fine particles known as PM2.5 for years. Last year, Locke ordered thousands of air purifiers for his staff in China.
In a joke circulating on Sina Weibo, China’s answer to Twitter, a journalist asks Locke: “China is your ancestral home, will you take home some of your ancestral home’s soil?” Locke replies, “I am. I’ve filled my lungs with it.”
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/China-taunts-Ambassador-Gary-Locke-calls-him-5277106.php
Chinese propaganda sounds like the Alt Right. Hard to tell which one is more effective.
Same goes for Afghani culture. Nothing can be done.
Alexander already changed the Afghan culture, so it is not that nothing can be done. It’s that humans don’t bother, as there is no silver/gold/oil in Afghanistan worth the cost. Russians only bothered because of that tiny little nearness to the sea that they thought they could probably get seceded to them, to get access to the Indian ocean.
Absolute power corrupts not because of the person taking the power, but because of all the people who become corrupted by giving all their power.
As for people being evil, welcome to the human species.
Richard Saunders Says:
November 15th, 2016 at 9:07 pm
I really don’t understand why the NeverTrump rhetoric is still being flung about.
And I don’t understand why Reformed Judaism and the disbelievers in Judaism can’t accept Jesus Christ as the Holy One of Israel. Before the 2nd century AD, the idea of two powers in heaven was written directly into the Old Testament. Only afterwards, did people change it.