Trump and Machado: it’s not about the women
There are about five weeks to Election Day. No time to waste.
But instead, Donald Trump seems to be putting a lot of his energy into tweets about Alicia Machado, in response to a remark by Hillary Clinton during the debate. Here’s the debate exchange:
CLINTON: You know, he tried to switch from looks to stamina. But this is a man who has called women pigs, slobs and dogs, and someone who has said pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers, who has said”¦
TRUMP: I never said that.
CLINTON: ”¦. women don’t deserve equal pay unless they do as good a job as men.
TRUMP: I didn’t say that.
CLINTON: And one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. He loves beauty contests, supporting them and hanging around them. And he called this woman “Miss Piggy.” Then he called her “Miss Housekeeping,” because she was Latina. Donald, she has a name.
TRUMP: Where did you find this? Where did you find this?
CLINTON: Her name is Alicia Machado.
I’m not going to bother to track the back and forth of Trump’s tweets on the subject. You can follow it if you like. My point is that it’s happening, his reaction is almost certainly hurting him, and it was completely predictable. That’s probably one of the reasons Hillary brought up the subject.
Remember that very first Republican debate, many moons ago? Remember the question Megyn Kelly asked Trump at the outset, the one that caused so much bickering and controversy, the one about his prior nasty statements on women?
The context was that initially the candidates were asked to take “the pledge” to support the eventual Republican nominee, and then the leadoff question to each candidate was “on the subject of electability in the general election.” First, Carson was questioned about his ignorance of foreign policy and his inexperience. Some errors he had made were cited, and then the question: “Aren’t these basic mistakes, and don’t they raise legitimate questions about whether you are ready to be president?”
Next up was Rubio, who was asked about his own lack of executive experience vis a vis Jeb Bush: “Could you please address Governor Bush across the stage here, and explain to him why you, someone who has never held executive office, are better prepared to be president than he is, a man who you say did a great job running your state of Florida for eight years?”
Then to Jeb, after a little background about people being sick of Bushes, “So do you understand the real concern in this country about dynastic politics?”
After Bush answered, it was Trump’s turn [emphasis mine]:
KELLY: Mr. Trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don’t use a politician’s filter. However, that is not without its downsides, in particular, when it comes to women.
You’ve called women you don’t like “fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.”
(LAUGHTER)
Your Twitter account”¦
TRUMP: Only Rosie O’Donnell.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: No, it wasn’t.
(APPLAUSE)
Your Twitter account”¦
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Thank you.
KELLY: For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O’Donnell.
TRUMP: Yes, I’m sure it was.
KELLY: Your Twitter account has several disparaging comments about women’s looks. You once told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president, and how will you answer the charge from Hillary Clinton, who was likely to be the Democratic nominee, that you are part of the war on women?
TRUMP: I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct.
(APPLAUSE)
I’ve been challenged by so many people, and I don’t frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn’t have time either. This country is in big trouble. We don’t win anymore. We lose to China. We lose to Mexico both in trade and at the border. We lose to everybody.
And frankly, what I say, and oftentimes it’s fun, it’s kidding. We have a good time. What I say is what I say. And honestly Megyn, if you don’t like it, I’m sorry. I’ve been very nice to you, although I could probably maybe not be, based on the way you have treated me. But I wouldn’t do that.
Remember that the highlighted question was asked Trump in August of 2015, over a year ago. He’s had a lot of time to think about it since.
As have the voters.
So what is happening now should not be a surprise of any sort. And Kelly’s question remain as good today—better, even—than it was back then. One of the ways in which Trump seems to have answered it originally was by attacking Megyn Kelly (mostly after the debate), and so it should also be no surprise whatsoever that he’s doubling down now. And whoever voted for him in the primaries voted for him despite these weaknesses.
Perhaps some voted for him because of them, and perhaps they don’t see them as weaknesses. They may percevie them as his strength in defying political correctness. But although I’m hardly a fan of political correctness, and I am all for defying political correctness, I’m also for choosing your battles and being smart about your vulnerabilities when you do so. In the Republican primaries Trump could get away with certain things that weaken him in the general, and one of them is opening himself up to the misogynist charge for no good reason and to make no good point. What’s more (and this is my bigger concern about him, and something I judge to be a far greater vulnerability of his), this behavior opens him to the change of having a temperament that should not be in the oval office (note also that it was really “temperament” that Kelly was questioning Trump about, too, in August of 2015).
The “poor temperament” charge isn’t about misogyny at all, and it doesn’t rest on the idea that Trump hates women (or even that he hates fat people). It’s that he’s thin-skinned, impulsive, emotional, shoots from the hip, reckless, uncontrolled, a loose cannon. This is fine (or at least acceptable to many people) for a celebrity and entertainer. It’s not fine for a president with a (metaphorical) finger on the (metaphorical) nuclear button.
Trump’s recent behavior during the debate and after has fed right into the Clinton camp. What are his advisors telling him to do now? Does he listen to them? Can he execute what they might tell him? Those are further concerns that have nothing to do with Trump and women, and everything to do with temperament and judgment. And they are important considerations that are part of the reason Trump has failed to win enough support from even the right, this election year.
It does no good for Trump supporters to excoriate those who won’t jump aboard the Trump train. Categorical declarations that Hillary is worse don’t cut it the more Trump is seen as dangerously and destructively (even self-destructively) impulsive. And this tendency of Trump’s was already crystal clear in the early part of the campaign.
[NOTE: Do you think I’m happy to have to write these words? If you do, then think again. Ever since it became clear to me some time last August that Trump had a good chance of becoming the Republican nominee in 2016, I’ve been devastated and have felt that an incredibly and surpassingly important election that was the Republicans’ to win was being handed away to the weakest Democrat candidate ever. And so far, that’s how it has played out.]
For the democrats Trump is the gift that never keeps giving. So easy to manipulate, so irresponsible, and so predictable. If they wanted to specify a stalking horse what would they have left out, given Trump’s behavior?
But he isn’t her, and they know that too,
So, just what is someone to do when faced with (i) the certainty that Hillary will be appointing at least 1 and likely 4 anti-Constitutionalist justices to SCOTUS and (ii) the uncertainty of what type of people Trump would try to appoint to SCOTUS?
Interesting article here:
http://amgreatness.com/2016/09/28/conservatives-for-trump-a-symposium-featuring-writers-and-scholars-for-trump/
Ira:
One should make a reasoned argument, with details, as to why Hillary is worse, and not just state over-the-top conclusions such as she’s the devil or Stalin or a murderer (the sort of thing we see often). And one should not ignore, and should try to counter, arguments from the other side that despite Hillary’s awfulness Trump could be more awful in terms of unpredictable impulsive and dangerous responses on the international front.
Personally, I feel that last bit is pretty hard to counter, and is potentially fatal to the Trump campaign.
But I’ve seen too many arguments that go pretty much like this: “Hillary is Satan, and Trump may not be.” That’s not going to persuade anyone. Plus, it’s often coupled with insults to the person the arguer is trying to persuade.
Trump is not an easy sell, as you have no doubt noticed.
Germany and Britain both have female leaders. How well do you think they will get on with him?
But hey, those are only your current allies. Putin is much more the Donald’s style anyway.
Hi neo-neocon,
I, and others, have made reasoned arguments, with details, on your blog about why Hillary is worse. (Are not the destruction of email messages and obvious sale of State Department favors samples of Hillary’s breach of the public trust?) If I remember correctly, people understandably distressed by Trump, including you I believe, have acknowledged that the “who is worse” argument just might be subjective with both sides having made reasonable arguments.
One way or another, I and others who will vote for Trump have acknowledged that Trump is not an easy sell.
That still leaves unanswered my query:
What is someone to do when faced with (i) the certainty that Hillary, if president, would be appointing at least 1 and likely 4 anti-Constitutionalist justices to SCOTUS and (ii) the uncertainty of what type of people Trump would try to appoint to SCOTUS?
Ira wrote:
So, just what is someone to do when faced with (i) the certainty that Hillary will be appointing at least 1 and likely 4 anti-Constitutionalist justices to SCOTUS and (ii) the uncertainty of what type of people Trump would try to appoint to SCOTUS?
If the Democrats take control of the United States Senate, a President Trump will very likely nominate a Left wing judge, such as Trump’s sister who is a federal judge, to the US Supreme Court.
Even if the Republicans remain in control of the US Senate, Trump is still likely to nominate a Leftist who shares Trump’s views on restricting the press and confiscating private property.
If Trump were supportive of putting constitutional conservatives on the US Supreme Court, why did he donate to Harry Reid’s US Senate campaign in 2010 when Reid was faced with a difficult reelection bid against a conservative Republican? It was Harry Reid who worked hard to block conservative judicial nominees from being voted on during Bush Administration.
Trump has said that he thinks we need to make deals with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. So, if elected, Trump would probably nominate a Left wing judge to the US Supreme Court in exchange for Schumer and Pelosi supporting Trump’s economic agenda on expanding government spending.
I know that Trump and his supporters say that conservatives should support Trump in order to get conservatives on the federal courts. But when you look at Trump’s record, Trump has no credibility on that issue.
Ira,
What to do about Trump’s behavior was the question to have asked from the start of the primary campaign, and the answer was then and is now nothing can be done. As neo notes; his outlandish, insulting, bullying thin skinned buffoonery was well and widely known many moons ago.
He will become ever more unhinged in the days ahead. You can safety bet on that.
As I understand Spiral’s argument: A president Donald Trump would be as left wing as a president Hillary Clinton, and Trump has a less appropriate temperament than her.
Were I as pessimistic as Spiral, I would vote for someone other than Trump or Hillary.
However, being optimistic, I take Trump at his word that he will appoint someone from the lists of potential SCOTUS justices that he published.
Ira:
Of course some people have made detailed and reasoned comments listing the sort of arguments I mentioned. I wasn’t saying they haven’t. But a lot of people don’t. And I was saying they should.
However, that doesn’t mean the pro-Trump arguments have been convincing. They often haven’t, even if detailed. And that’s because they rest (as do almost all arguments about Trump) on unprovable and somewhat shaky assumptions, not about what Hillary will do, but about what Trump will do.
And about the likelihood of that, which is also an issue.
It is an insurmountable problem for Trump supporters who would argue for him. He is a loose cannon. It all boils down to how unpredictable and how dangerous a person thinks he is.
So I thought it was understood that, to the argument about “Trump is more likely to support better Supreme Court justices” the opponent can argue, “Yeah, but he’s also more likely to cause nuclear war, so in the balance it doesn’t matter all that much. And in addition, I don’t even think he’s all that likely to support non-liberal SCOTUS justices.”
And so it goes, back and forth.
If Trump makes good on his threat to be even “nastier” than Hillary, this is all going directly into the sewer, which is pretty much where the primaries ended up. In this case, though, I think it will only make Hillary look the better choice.
However one plans to vote and whatever arguments one puts forth in support of one’s decision, one has to start with the facts that Hillary is leftist, corrupt, and almost certainly (I’m being generous) committed felonies while in high office, and Trump has no definite ideology and is clearly not in possession of all his marbles. Pick your poison, and God help us.
“It all boils down to how unpredictable and how dangerous a person thinks he is.” neo
Those that believe Trump to be too unpredictable and therefore potentially dangerous to entrust with the Presidency are in fact betting that the Left is not close to a decisive, irreversible point in dragging America over the cliff’s edge into the collective’s maw.
But turning points do happen.
The defeat of Xerxes’ supply fleet by Themistocles, forcing an army of hundred of thousands to retreat. Both saving Greece and preparing the grounds for the Hellenic dominion that leads to democracy.
Hannibal defeats the Roman army at Canae but fails to press and besiege Rome herself. Rome’s republic survives and learns that lesson so well, that it goes on to rule the known world.
Julius Caesar crosses the Rubicon, starting the ages of the Emperors. Alea iacta est (the die is cast…)
Charles Martell, the Hammer, defeats the Moors at Poitiers, halting the Muslim tide over Europe. His Grandson would become Charlemagne, whose rein arguably foretells Europe’s enlightenment.
The ‘New World’ is discovered, resulting in the first created government. All before being inherited.
Franz Ferdinand is murdered, propelling Europe into WWI.
Some see the writing on the wall and their warnings discounted as hyperbole: “One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans.” 1888 observation made by Otto von Bismarck
For those who think Trump is worse than Hillary, well obviously the arguments have not been convincing.
Similarly, for those who think Hillary is worse than Hillary, even the detailed arguments made by those who are anti-Trump have been unconvincing.
I again recommend the article here:
http://amgreatness.com/2016/09/28/conservatives-for-trump-a-symposium-featuring-writers-and-scholars-for-trump/
Ira:
Regarding americangreatness.com
Why do you recommend preaching to the choir? 🙂
The Journolist Express was on the case before the train left the station.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/29/alicia-machado-is-2016s-sandra-fluke-a-democratic-public-relations-scam/
But, at least there is a silver lining on the (whatever color it is safe to call it today) cloud
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/09/witnessing-the-final-demise-of-mainstream-media.php
Trump is what he is, if you have not figured out trump by now, well what can be said? The the donald is not hillary, hillary is not the donald hullabaloo is like a cat chasing its tail. The argument that djt will do xyz different than hrc is pathetic because it ignores his past NYC liberal persona and his current flip flops during the campaign.
Getting your underwear twisted up arguing about how djt might be better than hrc is time better spent on other more realistic endeavors.
Scholars for Trump, who would have thunk it? 😉
The final demise of the msm? It well may happen, but not holding my breath for it to happen tomorrow; although I think it is a future possibility.
OM,
If one willfully ignores Trump’s previous blather over the last 40 years one could become a scholar for djt. Lott is a big disappointment for me, ban evil assault weapons and no 4th rights djt does not inspire me to believe djt supports the 2nd more than hrc.
The problem with jumping on a bandwagon is that if one discovers he should later jump off all credibility is lost.
I mentioned before, but I’ll repeat:
If Trump were to throw this to Hillary, he’d do it in such a way as to make voters think they’d dodged a bullet. I suppose he had better have a much better 2nd and 3rd debate, and had better get more Twitter discipline.
Ira Says:
What is someone to do when faced with (i) the certainty that Hillary, if president, would be appointing at least 1 and likely 4 anti-Constitutionalist justices to SCOTUS and (ii) the uncertainty of what type of people Trump would try to appoint to SCOTUS?
They are to realize that whoever voted for Trump in the nomination process lashed all of us to a runaway train. They should then resolve not to let that happen again.
It’s too late to change the path we’re on now.
I’m really disgusted by the whole thing, and I refuse to vote for either of them. I’ve been saying this since the early stages of the primaries, when it looked like Trump might have a slim chance at the nomination. I’ve only grown more and more disgusted. It’s obvious to anyone with a brain that Clinton is a criminal and should be behind bars. Trump is a sleazy snake oil salesmen who makes my skin crawl. What I find most disheartening is that I feel like the Republican party had a real shot at nominating a solid candidate, with coat tails that might help them retain the senate, and even increase their margin. I really thought we might be able to turn back the clock on some of what Obama has done to the country. Sadly, a bunch of people who were running more on emotion than logic brought us Trump. I think the country is lost to liberals, and liberal theology. I think we’re doomed. I believe this is the point of no return.
For the record, the “Supreme Court nomination” argument is the only one that I find the least bit compelling, but it’s not enough for me. There are so many other things about Trump that I find repellent that there just isn’t enough lipstick on the planet to make me kiss that pig.
Earnest Trump advocates in the aftermath of yet another eruption of Trump’s self-in-selfhonesty tend to remind one of a cat chasing the reflection of a laser-pointer operated by a quasi-malevolent owner. Inseparably hilarious and sad; both at once.
Only, between the cat and the supporters, and, ruing the vast consequences to every polity on earth does distinctly separate the two phenomena: the former, a brief and circumscribed bit of jocularity; the latter the field of human tragedy itself.
Tom:
“I think the country is lost to liberals, and liberal theology. I think we’re doomed. I believe this is the point of no return.”
Become activist, develop your team, and compete for real full social spectrum in the arena, while understanding the game is iterative.
Eric, BTDTBTTS, excuse my language, but fuck it! I I don’t give a shit any more. I’ve done my part, it’s time for someone else to step up.
You see me now a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
I’ve been living on the edge so long
Where the winds of limbo roar
And I’m young enough to look at
And far too old to see
All the scars are on the inside
I’m not sure that there’s anything left to me
You ask me why I’m weary, why I can’t speak to you
You blame me for my silence say It’s time I changed and grew
But the war’s still going on, dear, and there’s no end that I know
And I can’t say if we’re ever…
I can’t say if were ever gonna be free
You see me now a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
My energy’s spent at last
And my armor is destroyed
I have used up all my weapons and I’m helpless and bereaved
Wounds are all I’m made of
Did I hear you say that this is victory?
Hillary is absolutely amoral, criminal, lying and deceptive bitch. What else one needs to reject her by any means available?
These elections are not about Trump or even Hillary, it is about Jacksonian revolution in progress. And as Richard Fernandez wrote, “After all revolutions are by definition acts of momentary insanity defined by a recklessness, rudeness and willful assertion that is hard to justify except on the grounds that it sometimes — but not always — works.”
Tom Says:
October 3rd, 2016 at 1:10 am
Eric, BTDTBTTS, excuse my language, but fuck it! I I don’t give a shit any more. I’ve done my part, it’s time for someone else to step up.
Tom is starting to sound like me back in 2007, except for the fact that I only sounded like that in my head, I didn’t actually let many people online see the inner thoughts. The problem with having a civilized mask you wear all the time trying to appear in control of yourself, is that sooner or later people will find out what’s really going on beneath the mask. Then the mask will be pointless as an illusion.
As for me, it’s always nice watching humans break. Since they break so easily.
Getting your underwear twisted up arguing about how djt might be better than hrc is time better spent on other more realistic endeavors.
Ever hear of Aquaponics, Parker?
That is probably a more useful endeavor for many of our fellow Americans.
Perhaps some voted for him because of them, and perhaps they don’t see them as weaknesses. They may percevie them as his strength in defying political correctness. But although I’m hardly a fan of political correctness, and I am all for defying political correctness, I’m also for choosing your battles and being smart about your vulnerabilities when you do so.
A lot of the Alt Right movement shares many things in common with Pick up Artist communities. Even VoxDay has another blog called “Alpha Game” something or other.
The short background brief on this, because I don’t want to talk about this every time, is that a couple of forum/computer programmer geeks in a niche group (similar to Zucker and Bill Gates) got together and reverse engineered human social mating rituals in order for them to date girls and get more sex. This dealt with shy geek personalities or shy non geek personalities, and eventually they came up with a “winning formula” which were like pick up lines, except you read them like a dialogue or computer code list. This spread on forums, people asked for books and seminars, and the “founders” so to speak began working on it. I heard about this from some independent investigative journalist that went deep in with the niche group to learn what they had. Wrote a book about it and I read it. That became the sub culture called PUA or Pick up Artists, which later morphed to just “game” as in the game theory, which ranks women based on a numerical score listing and ranks men based upon some pseudo wolf pack hierarchy. Used to be there was only two ranks recognized, the Alpha and the Beta. Now there’s Gamma and Omega and a bunch of others.
It’s part of the same research into epigenetics by white nationalists, probably. Although different people, different goals.
Part of the reason why women and men are damaged is because of porn culture. They have to resort to “reverse engineering” their own society’s mating rituals because something got “broken”. The Left was the cause of it but Hollywood and porn producers make a lot of money off of breaking cultures too.
The comments about women appeal to certain people who sympathize with these certain sub cultures, for various reasons. It’s not because they want to fight political correctness. It’s because by watching rape porn and re configuring their mating rituals based on power hierarchies, not love, those humans have been broken. It’s very difficult to track these demographics across the net, because of anonymity. Without a cookie survey popping up in their face asking these questions, one would never be capable of finding the dots, yet alone connecting them. But I’ve been finding data points for more than a decade now, on these topics. And I’ve seen a couple of potential causalities.
For a more mainstream pov, read Reynold’s wife’s account of why men have rebelled. Also called the Men’s Rights movement. One could see the bitterness there, probably first of all, because once people discover they aren’t “alone” in their brokeness, they start speaking out, like Alcoholics Anonymous.
The Vista killer in the US, is another case example, what with his manifesto. Game or Alpha Game was originally designed to let geeks and shy males who never learned how to deal with women romantically or who was never taught by proper authorities (except Hollywood culture and porn), on how to improve themselves in the mating ritual game. The Vista Killer is a good example of how noble or innocent obsession with girls, combined with Leftist Hollywood culture, can turn very toxic and very suicidal, very fast. Combine that with the Power Politics and Dominion of a White Nationalist branding in the USA, and things will fall apart faster than people can imagine.
People know how Arab and Islamic children are crazy, sadistic, and messed up. Ever wonder how they got that way? Mostly from their parents and environment.
The Left uses porn and the harder more specialized sorts, as a second kind of brain washing method.
For the Tea Party, their enemies wanted a way to degrade the TP. For the Alt Right, it’s probably just bitterness and angry against feminists and females, turning itself into a palace guard defense of Trum, as Trum is their surrogate for attacking high to mid status females like Fox News reporters. Most Presidents use other people as surrogates, but to many on the Alt Right’s most bitter wings, Trum is their surrogate instead.