Obama/Biden/Clinton give Israel a tongue-lashing
Meanwhile, is anyone at all surprised by this?
Indeed, as the Obama Doctrine marches on:
Our enemies get courted; our friends get the squeeze. It has happened to Poland, the Czech Republic, Honduras and Colombia. Now it’s Israel’s turn.
Defend our enemies. Punish our friends. Make the mass murderers scoff at our resolve. Make our allies distrust our word.
Bibi knows that Obama & Co. are entirely flabby and nowhere in line with Israel.
Screw the Democrats…
Netanyahu also understands the U.S. well enough to know that the current clown in the driver’s seat doesn’t speak for the majority of us, even though technically he does. The bad news is that there are critical risks for Israel if its most consistent ally in the entirety of its existences hangs it out to dry.
Of course, I’ve been saying for years that the international
“community” will wring their hands and gnash their teeth and make a lot of content-free speeches, eventually Israel will have to take matters into its own hands, like it did with Iraq in 1981 and the world will excoriate the state all the while privately sighing in relief that the problem was taken care of for them.
John Lennon’s song applies differently to nations: Israel is the n*gger of the world. If you don’t believe it, take a look at how everyone treats them. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
Neo,
Don’t forget to add Britain to your list. After the Falklands position, the special relationship is on life support.
This is classic liberal conflict resolution where you’re only critical of those too civilized to chop your head off.
The joke here is that if Netanyahu agrees to every concession that Obama can think up Abbas will reject it. The question is what misguided policy is Obama following that this treatment furthers? Is it getting into bed with the Palestinians? What is so hard to comprehend is that Obama does not learn from his mistakes. We still don’t know if he will learn from his successes as he hasn’t as yet had any.
This is also a jab at another Democrat constituency. Will the trial lawyers or even the unions be next?
Interesting Haaretz editorial view today:
I notice also there’s a ‘breaking news’ piece in Haaretz headlined “Former PM Olmert criticizes Netanyahu over diplomatic crisis with U.S,” but right now, its only available in Hebrew.
We elected a man who fancies himself an enlightened, intellectual, global lefist. I believe we elected a man who considers himself a global citizen first, and an American second.
How many speeches has he given saying we’ve been arrogant on the world stage? He understands and even sympathizes with our enemy’s grievances against us.
He also said in a speech that no country can or should exert power and influence over another. Subsequently, he announced plans to unilaterally cut our nuclear aresenal in half. No need to try to negotiate for something in exchange, we’ll just disarm them for no other reason than we have too strong a military. And I 100% guarantee that when the troops start coming home from Iraq in August, he will suddenly be concerned about the budget deficit and announce huge reductions in the conventional military budget as well.
As to why this is happening to Israel, one central reason might be the answer that Robert Spencer gave to a question the other day. Spencer, who I find to be a very learned expert on Islam, Muhammad and the Jihad, gave a very interesting 30 minute lecture the other day at the Reagan Ranch to promising high school students from the Young America Foundation, and afterward, in the question period, he was asked if he believed that Obama was a Muslim (http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=20495).
Spencer said that–although Obama and his campaign denied that he had anything to do with Islam or had ever had instruction in it–the truth was that, of course, Obama was raised a Muslim.
The proof? He was registered as a Muslim in the Indonesian school system, even when he attended a nominally Catholic private elementary school there, he attended mandatory Qur’an instruction as only Muslims had to and could, classes that he even wrote about attending in his autobiographical “Dreams From My Father.” As for whether Obama is a Muslim today, Spencer said that he didn’t know.
I might add that the Muslim position is that “once a Muslim, always a Muslim,” and thus Obama is either a Muslim, or an apostate Muslim, as a recent article in a Palestinian newspaper discusses (http://translating-jihad.blogspot.com/2010/02/is-obama-muslim-or-apostate.html).
I notice also there’s a ‘breaking news’ piece in Haaretz headlined “Former PM Olmert criticizes Netanyahu over diplomatic crisis with U.S,” but right now, its only available in Hebrew.
Here’s a translation: Olmert = Old MERDE!
Haaretz = So far left that it lists with every word. Makes Pelosi, Reid and Obama look like Ghengis Khan.
Martyn,
A threat to who?
Is Netanyahu trying to say that nation “x” shouldn’t have the right to exist?
No.
Is Netanyahu building in disputed territories?
No.
Netanyahu is simply acting as if Israel has the right to exist (and the right to exist and build in undisputed areas of Jerusalem).
Is that offensive to you Martyn? 😉
we are on to you Martyn !
We can school you. All of here are informed on this subject. Are you?
No.
Welcome Martyn, right on time and as expected with a piece from the leftist pro-Palestinian Israeli paper Haaretz. So, what else is new? Did a dog bite a man?
Well, after only 14 months or so of Obama in office, the USA is reduced to one solid ally – – – Haiti (I think).
for people who arent trying to line up a world of hurt.. they sure are making the right moves.
they are collapsing the finances, and the credit.
two things you need to be able to fight and protect yourself from a incursion
they have opened the borders for decades and we KNOW that there are weapons caches all over (from mitrokhen, and senja, and some were found).
they have moved expertise, knowlege, art, skills, and ability out of the reach of the mentally crippled who think they are superior (but as blood sweat and tshirts shows, they cant even clean shrimp).
our manufacturing is out of the country… and so we could not ramp up like in wwii to win. nor would we be able to borrow to pay for it.
add to that a oil production capacity that is the same as it was when i was in grade school… and you have no way to feul your equipment.
our best soldiers are insured of being off country… leaving which ones here in the states?
the list goes on as to all the negs on the chessboard.
like soviet troops in Chavez land doing a big soviet style parade. weapons also being traded… expertise.
and all one has to do is know the history of the wars of conflict in terms of russians, and they would know how much they were sturring things up, and even fighting…
if we collapse financially, and something escalates, think of what each will get and do… russia will reveal that the money it has made and been getting, was going into hidden military production…
china will have 30,000,000 EXTRA males who will never marry…
to give you an idea… they can feild an army that is 1/10th our population… and that would not hurt losing them at all…
we have unilaterally disarmed as they ahve built up
and we are alienating all the countries who might loan or help us..
no.. they are not doing anything bad..
but then again.. most cant keep ALL these points in their minds at one time to compute a situation!!!!
According to http://www.debka.com this phony USA/Israeli misunderstanding will be used by Obama to justify NOT supporting Israel in the event of an attack on Iranian nuclear facilities. In the meantime, Arab nations are becoming very alarmed as it becomes clearer to them (and Israel) that the USA intends to allow Iran to become a nuclear power.
Scary stuff!
Martyn: Sod off.
Yawn.
Same ole Same ole.
Keep going Netanyahu. Don’t let judgmental people without facts make you feel condemned.
Freedom !!!!!! 🙂
All those Jewish Democrat voters are getting what anyone could have seen with respect to Israel. Either they are experiencing voter’s remorse or they never really cared about Israel.
Spencer said that—although Obama and his campaign denied that he had anything to do with Islam or had ever had instruction in it—the truth was that, of course, Obama was raised a Muslim.
That was obvious, despite protestations to the contrary. He’s named for “Buraq,” the legendary beast that in Islamic theology bore Mohammed from Mecca to Jerusalem and back in one night. (On Dasher On Dancer! On Prancer and Vixen! On Buraq! Hmmm.) Let’s face it – no one but Muslims had ever heard of Buraq before this.
So his name, in conjunction with his school record, makes claims that Obama wasn’t raised a Muslim about as credible as those that someone in an Irish school named Mary Magdalene O’Toole wasn’t raised as a Catholic.
OT. Just got my census form. My blood pressure skyrockets at questions about my race. Once again we play the racial numbers game, that beloved sport of Democrats.
What do others think? Am I being overly touchy about this?
Occam’s Beard: try this.
Thanks, neo. You don’t think I’m being too gnarly about this, then?
Der Spiegel is not too impressed with Obama’s Middle East efforts either. This rather long article also mentions other areas where The Won has not lived up to expectations.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,683591,00.html
When will they start wearing Miss Me Yet T shirts?
OB,
No, you’re not being overly touchy, that’s what I say. I’ve seen suggestions that we should answer the race question by identifying ourselves simply as “American.”
I think Netanyahu, and others like him, may be the last, best hope for Israel. But then I’ve liked him for a long time. They would certainly be fools to rely on us, that’s for sure, and all the more so since our global face is now Obama. The Israelis left Beirut and the bulk of Lebanon. The Israelis left South Lebanon. The Israelis left Gaza. Much good may it do them. The Palestinians have given up exactly–what?
And the answer is. . . . Nothing. Nothing whatever. Not even Gilad Shalit.
I’ll always recall Corrie ten Boom quoting her father, in The Hiding Place, as he said that he felt sorry for the Nazis. Because the Jews are the apple of God’s eye.
Be warned: Some things never change.
“”Am I being overly touchy about this?””
Occam’s Beard
I find it incredibly offensive. It’s none of their damn business to know what blood flows through my veins. This issue has gotten to the level of an obsessive compulsive disorder for our political class.
Mr. Frank says;
I really do hope that this causes a re-thinking in the Jewish community about the Dems. There was a time when the Dems were the party of the urban ethnics and minorities, and there was a time when the Dems had a more pro-America and pro-Israel foreign policy than today. But those days are gone. Its time for Jews and all others who care about Israel (who I count myself among) to re-think which party serves their best interests.
Israel is the only democratic, truly pro-Western republic… a modern country. . . in a region where it is surrounded by dictators, Islamists, and a disfunctional Arab culture that sometimes seems like its stuck in the 7th Century. Israel deserves America’s support, especially when it has to take unpleasant measures against those who aim to destroy her.
Incidentally, way back during the very begining of Obama’s administration, I was among those suggesting that he be given a chance. When he gave his speech reaching out to the Islamic world, I suggested that it be given a chance. I disagreed with somebody else on this board who said that Obama was “kicking Israel to the curb.” I now acknowledge that I was wrong, as it does indeed appear that Obama is following the same pattern with Israel as he did with Poland, the Czechs, Honduras and others… and indeed getting ready to kick another ally to the curb.
J.L., you’re mistaken about that kicking to the curb bit. It’s under the bus. Always. Under the bus.
Just incidentally, Bibi’s brother Jonathan was the only man who died at Entebbe, in one of Israel’s proudest hours (one out of a number of other proud hours).
I could wax on about the Israelis. In times when they could rely on no one else, they relied on themselves. And they prevailed.
Now, again, they may be able to rely on no one else.
I am sorry to say that I read an article yesterday–and I wish I remember where; it was an on-line excerpt from one of the Foreign Affairs journals. Anyway, the article asserts that Gen Petraeus sent a letter to the CJCS to the effect that our policy toward Israel was damaging our relations in the Arab world. He allegedly also asked that Israel-Palestine be incorporated in Centcom’s area of responsibility rather than EURCOM. Supposedly his request was denied.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that our friendship with Israel complicates relations with the Arab world. But, I find it disturbing if Petraeus did highlight this as a policy that needed to change.
I know Petraeus’s primary concern is holding the Arab world strong vs Iran, but hope he is not ready to sacrifice Israel’s interests and security to appease them.
Since I cannot remember the source, I have no idea of the validity of the alleged comments. The article does quote someone in Defense as acknowledging a letter.
betsybounds Says:
I’m with you, betsy. God bless and protect Israel.
I am actually capable of feeling sympathy for the common, everyday Arab or Palestinian… but the great irony of this is that the country which would give the greatest opportunity and freedom to the everyday Arab is…. not an Arab country, but Jewish majority Israel.
The nonsense that Israel has had to deal with from the rest of the world… the hatred and misinformation and contempt… all this when it is THE shining example of freedom and success in the entire middle east.
Re: Entebbe. There are a few interesting movies about the raid. There are at least two American ones: one pretty good one with Charles Bronson, and another not so good one. And theres an actual Israeli film, “Operation Thunderbolt,” which is also quite good.
J.L. Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Exactly. I was raised as a Christian and am not particularly religious now, but I support Israel, and I know enough about history to understand that it was the ancient homeland of the Jews long before Christians or Muslims existed.
I see Israel as a small, shining outpost of Western Civilization in a benighted Third World backwater, and as such, it deserves our support.
J.L., I think Operation Thunderbolt is the best of the lot.
Mark Steyn has described the Palestinians as “the most comprehensively wrecked people on the face of the earth.” I don’t know of any better way to define them.
But that excuses nothing.
rickl,
What you say about Israel is true.
It’s also true that Israel was built by the survivors. They brought lessons with them. One hopes the lessons have been passed to their off-spring. One suspects they have been. The corruption of the Jews has never been total. It’s one of the reasons they’ve died in such awful numbers.
I too see Israel as a “small, shining outpost of Western Civilization in a benighted Third World backwater. . . .”
But I also see it as something else.
These Jews are the apple of God’s eye.
Oldflyer: It’s unclear whether the facts stated in that Petraeus article are true. See this.
Oldflyer,
I saw that too, but it was confusing as to who actually said what.
Martyn of England FYI no Israeli takes anything said in any Israeli paper seriously so you should not either. The reasons are varied but it appears to me to be a Woodie the Poo reaction. Every week there are predictions of multiple catastrophes coming by the following week. The next week there are a series of new disaster predictions and so on. Recall the famous Jewish telegraph “start worrying, details follow”.
BTW I am suspicious of you Martyn. The most shrill, stomach churning, vicious open lies and hatred towards Israel and Jews in the west today comes from jolly old England. I remember listening to the BBC’s anti-Israel hate propaganda while in Israel (and laughing my head off). Apparently hating Israel is now the mainstream fashion in England, another sign advanced national rigor mortise I suppose.
As for the Israeli attitude towards Obama; I assure everyone that the Israelis have an attitude of amused contempt towards Obama, similar to the attitude towards the incompetent pretentious amateur who expects to be taken seriously because he has money.
Anyone who is interested in Israel, the Middle East and its relation to world is urged to go to the Rubin Report, http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/. The author, Barry Rubin, is both a pragmatist and scholar without peer.
We all, here, have reading lists. I know I do. I’m right now, and finally, reading Whittaker Chambers’ Witness.
I would like to suggest that we add John Hersey’s The Wall to our lists. You may do as well, but I doubt you will do better.
BB, I’m a fan of Witness, as discussed here earlier.
I’m just finishing The Red Flag, by David Priestland, a recently published history of communism. I can’t wait to see how it ends… /g
Expat, I just read the Der Spiegel article. Good lord it took the Germans a year to figure out Obama is full of sh*t!
And here is a Hispanic story for the census people. My kids are Hispanic, why, because mommy is from Argentina. Forget the Argentines are Europeans who consider the Americans semi-literate barbarians, and that my wife’s family is from Central Europe, and that they have as much in common with a Central American as with an Eskimo. They now get some sort of special considerations because politically correct bureaucrat thinks Hispanics are so ill-prepared for the world they need special assistance.
I can’t wait till these people take over health care.
Jews voted in large numbers for the Islamic president so I no longer feel sorry for, or support them.
Scrapiron, Israel was one of the few countries in the world where the people overwhelmingly supported McCain over Obama. They always saw right thru him.
Scrapiron,
There was a Jewish candidate for whom they failed to vote?
betsyhounds, I do not get your point?
Israel was one of the few countries in the world where the people overwhelmingly supported McCain over Obama. They always saw right thru him.
Certainly true, Bob, but not relevant to scrapiron’s point, since Israelis don’t have a vote.
This is classic liberal conflict resolution where you’re only critical of those too civilized to chop your head off.
Yup. A.k.a. “cowardice.”
Israel was one of the few countries in the world where the people overwhelmingly supported McCain over Obama. They always saw right thru him.
——————————————————-
that’s funny! We get to choose between Zionist candidates and it’s worth even a discussion for you, one guy or the other! That’s rich!
Did it ever occur to anyone here that China is actually the superpower (go ahead and bow now, you will soon enough) if the US allied itself with the 1.2 billion Muslims in the world then the US could not be defeated? NO ONE wants to bow to China! Natenyahu is wearing a crown at the breakfast table and is mad as a hatter and doesn’t give a shit about us anyway, the Israelis are nutjobs, being raised on blood has driven them into the abyss and they are taking the US with them. Who needs those vampires? The US needs to drop those losers and go a different route. Over all the people in the world the Muslims love the US, they would gladly Jihad for the US against our godless enemies. Just like they did in Afghanistan. Israelis are thieves or is everyone a Jew here? They are robbing us blind and unless you are on the payroll I sure don’t get the homage you pay those genocidal maniacs!! Anyway, they are not serving even US imperial interests which I take it this community is ok with genocides all over the place for resources, in which case should still appeal to you to take on those who could serve rather than steal! Just popped by as I do every now and then to throw in a new thought in the pot of your strange brew.
undisputed areas of Jerusalem).
This untrue facts.
read and go back in history how big was Israeli land and how big right now, its all ended with land grape not more not less.
As from some obscured view and Islam and Obama these minds are divine by hateful not by bright brains.
The Petraeus briefing: Biden’s embarrassment is not the whole story
Also your conservative folk Driving Drunk in Jerusalem
Here see by you own eyes how land garp expanded Israelite 2000 year old fake dream israel-palestine-map
sam,
Thanks for finding that for us. I am still unsure about the interpretation. On one hand it sounds like a criticism of Israel, but it also looks like a criticism of Obama’s crappy diplomatic efforts. Weren’t we hearing recently that some Arab countries might not be unhappy should Israel deal with Iran’s nukes? It is possible that Petraeus was asking for more sophisticated behind the scenes diplomatic efforts, but Obama doesn’t do sophistication and subtlety. Nor does he provide a consistent philosophy to guide his cabinet.
Why should we assume that his efforts in the ME are any different than those with health care? Anyone, domestic or foreign, who deals with Obama is trying to figure out what TOTUS will say tomorrow.
Oh–never mind! I completely misunderstood Scrapiron’s post, is all! 🙂
Bonnie, you need to have a new thought before you can throw it into the mix.
The WSJ this morning reports that so far Netanyahu has declined to retract the plans for construction of new homes in Jerulsalem (although the WSJ couches this as plans for “the settlements”). In my opinion Israel’s continuing to build settlements is the only way to lasting peace with the Palestinians, as it is the only means by which Israel can put Palestinian interests at risk. The longer the settlements exist and the larger they grow the less land there will be for the Palestinians. Unless the Palestinians have skin in the game there is nothing to move them from their obsessive desire to remove all Israelis from Israel. Sixty years of concessions by Israel have not yielded any progress towards peace. Obama’s policy of more of the same only meets the definition of insanity. Maybe if we do the same thing one more time, but tell everyone that we mean it this time, we will get a different result. The result of this policy was to give the Palestinians an excuse to decline to participate in any discussions and to demand further concessions from Israel as the price of their “participation” in later “talks”. Like Obama’s other foreign policy initiatives, this policy was and is incomprehensible in its complete misunderstanding of the issues, its naiveté and misdirection, and ultimately with its failure to address the real issue on the table, the continued existence of Israel. The real impact of this, let’s face it, very stupid policy is to put the middle east at risk of a war that will have economic and political consequences that no one can foresee other than that they will be terrible.
This silly scenario is playing out on the wider stage of Iran’s nuclear ambitions which put the entire middle east (and eastern Europe) in danger. (I guess that any increase in the price of oil resulting from Iranian threats to its neighbors is acceptable to Obama as it coincides with his desire to end our reliance on carbon fuels.) In fact, were it not for Obama’s pushing the settlement issue the other Arab states would quietly find common cause with Israel in standing against Iran. But Obama’s policy (which is, in essence, “I am here, Adore me.”) has made this much more difficult for them.
It is hard to comprehend that the USA will decline to assist an ally due to a dispute over the announced approval of a zoning ordinance. But Netanyahu has to test the waters, I guess, by pushing to see where Israeli intransigence will lead. It is better to know in advance that a purported ally will NOT stand with you than to find out at the time when their support is life saving. Then you can plan accordingly and build up your own stocks of military supplies. You can also make secret alliances with the Arab states whose support will be needed to effect a common defense of the region. My guess is that Israel will make all the right moves politically to retain the USA as an ally but move ahead with any plans to protect itself against Iranian threats in the understanding that it will receive not support but condemnation from the USA.
Sam,
Everything you have said is irrelevant.
Your mind is taken over.
I’ve read both sides of the argument for over 2 decades.
The map you link. The things you say. They aren’t even a part of the argument. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Bush are dealing with peace talks and negotiations that are nowhere near what you are talking about.
Of course – there will never be peace with people who will not negotiate or even believe in Israel’s right to exist. There were consequences to the wars with Israel’s neighbors that Israel did not start.
It’s a new day. Learn to work with your neighbor – not terrorize them.
By the way, overlooked in this tangle is the fact that Obama has visited various countries in the middle east but not Israel. Sending Biden in his stead is insulting to Israel on two counts. One, Biden is not Obama. So, the full prestige of the USA is denied Israel. Two, Biden is walking proof of The Peter Principle. Obama sent a fool to do serious negotiations. His appearance in any capitol of any country in the world (unless in connection with our sending some sort of relief or assistance to that country) would most likely be taken as an insult by that country. For example, the members of the democratically elected government of Iraq must shudder every time Biden shows up in Baghdad.
Sam that map you linked to is rubbish. Most, and I mean better than 80%, of the land supposedly Palestinian was, and largely still is, uninhabited. No one except the government had any claim to it.
And Tom Friedman’s article (also linked) maintaining that sincere peace talks with the Palestinians are possible is silly. No one remotely familiar with the situation in the PA believes that. There is no Palestinian interest in a real peace, none, nada, zilch. To even mention it is to proclaim a sincere and absolute belief in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and tooth fairy. I take that back, they may be real, at least compared to the Palestinian peace prospects.
By the way the Palestinians were not invented until the 1960s. They were Arabs before then. You know the people who have a combined total land mass greater than the US and Canada, more oil money than they can spend and cannot fix up their own societies because Israel is holding them back.
Even the WaPo editorial staff finds fault with Obama’s meager efforts. They also attribute Hillary’s reaction to direct Obama input.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031502667.html
When a monstrous ego with little knowledge tries to do foreign affairs, we have a serious problem. Steve has done a great job of pointing out Obama’s incompetence. Who in the world trusts us now?–not the Eastern Europeans, not the Indians, not the Columbians or Hondurans. Who respects us now?–not the Saudis or the Chinese. As for the Israelis, they haven’t paid enough tribute to Obama’s very “hard” work.
That Washington Post article was a bore to read.
Bob from Virginia wrote: ”By the way the Palestinians were not invented until the 1960s.”
Oh Bob — this is just nonsense.
Anyone who has ever visited the Palace of Westminster in London will have seen the large wall hanging of a hand drawn map. You can’t miss it – it’s huge. It goes back to The Crusades, is dated around 1200 and is titled
“P A L E S T I N E.”
Here’s another hand drawn map from France by Pierre Du Val (1618-1683), a 17th century French mapmaker who also compiled atlases, map games & town plans. It’s an old hand drawn map of the area called PALESTINE.
Sam, relax. “Palestine” is based upon the Latin name the Romans used as an insult to the Jews, when the former conquered the land, as the Philistines were enemies of the Jews. The Brits used the name until they were forced out. In fact, the Brits used the word “Palestinians” to refer to the Jewish inhabitants. Your historical and Westminster references are worthless, except to a Jew hater.
Oops! My apologies. The message I just posted should have been addressed to Martyn of England, not Sam.
Martyn and Sam,
Yawn – age old arguments. Let’s based on maps from hundreds of years ago make all Americans move out and give the land back to American Indians or France or Mexico or what have you.
In fact. Please move out of your house now…
I know some people who should be in it based on maps.
Let’s just wipe Israel off the face of the map. And then the United States… any other nations?
Baklava,
I’ve always wondered about giving parts of Western Europe back to the Celts.
🙂 Freedom !
Made me think of Braveheart. Sad movie.
Kashmir
Australia
So many countries and areas of land to dismantle. So little time…. Let’s join hands – sing cumbaya and force these people out of their homes.
Nice comments, Baklava. I’ve often wondered what these guys think we should do, based on their principles–move out of our country?
My husband and I love Braveheart. I especially love the mad little Irishman who decides that, in order to speak with his equal, an Irishman is forced to converse with the Almighty.
Well, mad he may have been. But he was a helluva fighter, and he would watch your back for ya. Kind of man we want on our side, so say I.
If anyone is still following the thread, I saw some clarification just now of the alleged Petreaus input. The article was in Foreign Policy on line and written by Mark Perry, a former adviser to Arafat.
Max Boot reports in Contentions that military officers familiar with the events stated that Perry mis-characterized Petreaus’s statements. He did state that the lack of progress toward peace complicated relationships within his area of responsibility, but did not point the finger at Israel.
I am glad to see clarification. After my earlier post I tried to find more definitive information, but did not until this evening.
So say you Betsy? 😉 Thank you for your words.
Martyn of England re the Palestinians. I said the Palestinians were invented in the 1960s not Palestine, the Roman name for Philistine. Up to the independence of Israel the term Palestinian referred to the Jewish population as opposed to the Arab. The point is there was no separate national identity for the “Palestinians” as opposed to other Arabs. Admittedly this no longer seems to be the case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines
Is the second map from 830 BC good enough? 🙂
It shows the kingdom of Israel and a little strip of land for the Philistines. I’ll just tell you Martyn and Sam – that won’t be acceptable either.
Terror is not a tool for negotiation. Terrorists cannot be reasoned with.
The table is for negotiating. Blow up the table and all talks are off. Israel has been more than accomodating and has made countless offers for peace.
Arafat’s legacy is no peace.
there will never be peace with people who will not negotiate or even believe in Israel’s right to exist.
To refresh your short and nive memory read this our troll:
King Abdullah’s Arab Peace Initiative
the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel’s acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel.
This offer made by Saudi King Abduallh was supported by all Arabs states also by Arab leauge. so what more than that you and athore lake from Arab of this peace plan?
It’s a new day. Learn to work with your neighbor – not terrorize them.
Yab…. the spectacular operation “Dubai 11.”Dubia 11 were terrorist state Cary terrorist acts.
Michael Bodenheimer obtain the German passport in an Israeli town?
jay,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu flatly rejected the initiative after the 2007 summit meeting (at a time when he was leader of the Israeli opposition).[36] He told visiting Arab foreign ministers that “The withdrawal from Gaza two years ago proved that any Israeli withdrawal — particularly a unilateral one — does not advance peace, but rather establishes a terror base for radical Islam.”[36] Meanwhile, Israeli Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on April 21, 2009 that the plan is “a dangerous proposal, a recipe for the destruction of Israel.”[37]
On March 28, 2002, then Foreign Minister Shimon Peres said:
“ “Israel views positively every initiative aimed at arriving at peace and normalization. In this respect, the Saudi step is an important one, but it is liable to founder if terrorism is not stopped. We cannot, of course, ignore the problematic aspects which arose at the Beirut Summit and the harsh and rejectionist (sic) language used by some of the speakers. It is also clear that the details of every peace plan must be discussed directly between Israel and the Palestinians, and to make this possible, the Palestinian Authority must put an end to terror, the horrifying expression of which we witnessed just last night in Netanya.”[29]
What is the key Jay?
The key is a policy of believing Israel has the right to exist and the complete stoppage of terror. When gaza territory was given to the Palestinians it seemed to EGG ON THE TERROR ! Israel learns repeatedly that ceding land unilaterally does not further peace.
Look at the facts. Utopia is good. Utopia is not achievable.