What will Boehner and the Republicans do about Obama’s executive order on immigration?
One of the problems with evaluating what should be done to stop Obama is that it depends on what could be done, and that in turn depends on a set of rules, some of them obscure, about the relations and balance of power between Obama, the courts, and Congress. The fact that those rules have been ignored and/or flouted by Obama doesn’t mean that Congress can successfully do the same, or that it should.
Most of the right is shrieking “Do something! Stop him!” to Boehner and company, and experiencing the usual frustration with what is seen as the slow pace of the opposition and its RINO/establishment nature. Many people on the right believe that Boehner et al have no intention of stopping Obama, and that they basically have the same goals re immigration.
I don’t agree; I think the Republican establishment is at the very least far more interested in enforcing border security and slowing the flow of illegal entries before any consideration of what might be called amnesty. But I confess I am not at all sure. However, in all the pieces I’ve read on the subject of what Republicans should or could or would do, this comment might just be the best evaluation I’ve seen:
The GOP, even with a majority in each House of Congress CANNOT, unilaterally stop an E.O. [presidential executive order]. They can only pass non-binding resolutions or, create and pass legislation, WHICH MUST BE AGREED TO BY THE PRESIDENT. The Constitution is clear on that. This President knows that and is willing to have his actions be challenged in Court. The only thing that the GOP can do, right now, in what Boehner is doing, trying to put the budget of the Homeland Security Department on a short leash, so that the NEW Senate can weigh in, when it takes over in January.
In the mean time, the Department must promulgate the rules and regulations that will govern how the E.O. is to operate. BOTH the House and the Senate will be included in the review of the Rules. Several Committees in each House will want to weigh in on those rules, before they become final. The hearings, etc., could take a year or more.
That’s why this whole thing is nothing more than Obama’s way to get back in the news, after the humiliating defeat in the last election. He can be back on the front page. He thinks this fight will make him relevant, in his last 2 years. Then, there is the Court. The SCOTUS will have its say, which could be just the ticket to setting Obama and this E.O. back on their heals. That decision will come down before June, 2015, before they adjourn for the Summer.
I just do not see ANYTHING happening, in terms of the E.O. going into action, before the Court decides. So, relax. This whole fight is theater.
I’m no expert on Senate and House rules, but this has the ring of truth to me. What do you think?
[NOTE: As I’ve said before, even though I think Obama deserves impeachment and conviction, unless there is a two-thirds majority to convict in the Senate, it would be a bad idea to begin that process. That two-thirds Senate majority does not exist at the moment.]
Here’s the core problem: Obama is lawless, he doesn’t care and most of the media is with him.
The only way things change is if a district court judges issues an injunction. The injunction is still good unless overruled. Will he defy a trial court judge?
“Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn) revealed on Saturday that Republican leadership, led by Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-Oh), has no intention of resisting President Obama’s executive amnesty that he ordered on Thursday.
In the weekly meeting called “Republican Conference” in the House of Representatives, “we all knew that the big issue for the week was going to be the president announcing his amnesty,” she explained. Bachmann recounted that all of the leadership went to the microphone, including John Boehner.
“They acted as though the amnesty issue wasn’t even an issue. They said that the President is going to do what he’s going to do, and we are not going to get down in the mud with him. We are not going to engage, and what we are going to do is to talk about our positive solutions on jobs, the economy, education, and manufacturing,” Bachmann said.
She added that each congressman who spoke reiterated that not engaging Obama and staying positive was a “brilliant strategy.”
“We will not engage,” she reiterated with disgust.
“While the country is talking about amnesty, and the president is taking unconstitutional actions, our leadership wants to change the subject and not engage,” she said.”
Cornhead,
He’ll follow Andrew Jackson’s example, “[Chief Justice] John Marshall has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.”
Neo:
The comment you quote (by “Yachtspy”) sounds good, as far as it goes. I fear it does not cover matters outside the strict confines of Constitutional law.
It may well be true that the President’s executive order is for form’s sake only, and doesn’t really change that much. (If so, it would be of a piece with many other actions of this President.) However, the “bully pulpit” has now been used, and people’s actions will change as a result. We will get more illegal immigration, and we will see more crime from illegal immigrants, as a result of this action. No doubt there will be other consequences as well.
Is this what the President deliberately intended? Or is he naive enough to not have understood the effects his words would have? Or does he know it, and simply not care one way or the other?
Answer: You tell me. Your guess is as good as mine.
Neo: “As I’ve said before, even though I think Obama deserves impeachment and conviction, unless there is a two-thirds majority to convict in the Senate, it would be a bad idea to begin that process. That two-thirds Senate majority does not exist at the moment.”
I’ll take the opposing viewpoint for this reason: Forcing elected politicians to be accountable for their vote.
How? Next time they’re up for re-election (If they choose to run again) then any politician who votes not to impeach or convict Obola will have that publicized in the next campaign.
Put it to a vote. REGARDLESS of what you think the numbers are. Politicians hate to be held accountable for their political behavior. All the more reason to impeach and convict Obola.
“Is this what the President deliberately intended? Or is he naive enough to not have understood the effects his words would have? Or does he know it, and simply not care one way or the other?”
He understands. He knows. He intends. He doesn’t give a ****.
All of the above.
This is already a fait accompli. We saw this when Obama said on national television–without an executive order–that children would not be deported. So suddenly began a mass child exodus as though he were the Pied Piper leading the children away from their parents and across the Rio Grande.
It’s impossible to stop this with EO in Congress. They can’t pass a bill to stop it, and they can’t defund it, because before 1/20/15 Reid won’t send it up for a vote in the Senate, and after 1/20/15 Obama will veto it. The power of the purse is only a power when it can actually be used. Unfortunately the MSM has negated that ability very effectively. Let the “GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN!” drama begin! The MSM will employ the old Jedi mindtrick: “You don’t need to shutdown the government. Obama can have his way. Move along.”
neo…
That analysis is far too optimistic.
For Barry’s intent is to do nothing.
And doing nothing has already started.
&&&
During the last years of the Carter maladministration the head of the CAB, Alfred E. Khan, de facto suspended all of the relevant rules inre establishing new routes and flights for commercial carriers.
He moved faster than the industry — and any other players by doing nothing — overnight. (!)
IIRC Braniff was the first to violate the Federal laws and rules. Kahn famously did nothing and said he’d continue to do nothing.
Congress was paralyzed, with factions on both sides of the issue.
In sum: a policy of non-enforcement moves at lightning speed.
And, it’s the non-action that’s at the heart of B.S.’s policy. The other features are strictly window dressing — in terms of the politics.
Barry has every reason to believe that during 2016 some such sop will be thrown to the Latino voting bloc.
Sloth for 16 months means nothing, nothing at all.
Scott Wong,
Rebecca Shabad,
Cristina Marcos…
They all blew it.
Are those bylines for real?
As does Truth Unites… and Divides, I find Impeachment a healthy exercise. We are neither a nation of laws nor even of men, but of perfidy. Under the present circumstances, it is the better part of realpolitik to forego the ‘we can’t win that one so save the ammunition’. If the votes are lacking the indictments are not, nor is there a shortage of evidence. Under the present circumstances ‘J’Accuse’ would be every bit as useful as ‘guilty’. Enough McClellan, fight like Grant.
Via Amnesty Theater Obama’s dance card is full for the remaining two years. The more anxiety and panic he sees amongst us, the more he enjoys the music. The more apathy he sees, the deeper his euphoria. The more useless flailing, the more Cheshire grins.
The Republicans can win in one way only: by governing.
Sure, address the illegalities. Create commissions. Plead for injunctions. Be smart with the budget and squeeze DHS like a cheap dishrag. Avoid every temptation to pull a Boehner/McConnell and roll over day and night. But don’t be puppets on Obama’s strings, playing the impotent fools Obama takes you for. This illegality, it’s consequences, it’s fears, and the opposition’s WISE responses will do a reverse Reagan on the Administration and they will be long remembered as the traitors they are.
First, and foremost, GOVERN. Put the right bills on the President’s desk weekly, even daily, and make him choke as he declares veto after veto who he really is. Lead this country from the front, dragging a whining Obama all the way. Let the nation see an energetic relentless Congress refuting Obama’s claims of EO justifying gridlock. FORCE HIS HAND with smart non-groveling politics and score one (or several) for the good guys, and get an indigenous Amen Chorus going, begging for more.
GOVERN. Get out front and defend the bills and state their history, how long they lingered under Harry Golemn Reid’s thumb per Obama’s request and behest, state their mechanisms and intended effects.
Protest and explain the consequences of every pro-growth and security bill that Obama vetoes immediately after, the very day, the very hour. Use the spotlight of Veto Theater against Obama. Put him on his heels.
Create and pass bills designed to deal with the consequences of a potentially politically undead Obama amnesty by forcing the Fed health services to address and conquer the new diseases ravaging our nation and to spread resources nation wide to deal with them, forcing Obama to identify the interlopers so their diseases can be discerned. Force Obama to prove that no jihadis are amongst them. Do this very publicly and via strong bills on the President’s desk.
Pass bills requiring the creation of military tents for schools dealing with masses of miscreants. Pass bills demanding they be instructed firstly and lastly in American English and American Civics.
Stop the pandering! Never, ever, take a weapon off the table. Never declare shutdowns are out of the question, only say repeatedly and unitedly that any shutdown will be via the veto pen of a President governing against the People.
Stop being afraid! McConnell, get a chin. Boehner, enough with the damn crying. Congress, stop thinking this is about you. It’s about our Republic. Your political careers will be on sound ground if you govern as if you do not fear the Communists and Islamists and Alinskyites and the shrieks they will make. This is war. War not for the party. War for the continued existence of this country as it was intended to be. War for the ability to bless and stabilize this world and to keep the bad guys in their sand-boxes and vodka bottles. Since when is war a casualty-free enterprise? You send young men to face Hell and die, but you cannot risk an adverse poll? Or, Heaven forbid, a loss at election time? You aren’t sent there to season a few terms so you can play the I want to be a President game. You are sent there to defend and honor our Constitution and preserve and prosper this most just and remarkable country. If your careers’ value out weighs the healthy continuance of the only country that can lead this world to peace and prosperity, then you deserve neither the career nor the travails it entails. You are then traitors, wasting valued seats that could have been filled by shameless patriots.
Impeachment is a non-starter. There are not 67 votes in the new senate, so forget about it. The new congress should focus on what it can do to keep the messiah off balance and push all his narcissistic buttons. Bho’s ego is a fragile thing, show him no respect and start by walking out on his state of the disunity blather in January.
Maquis: “Put the right bills on the President’s desk weekly, even daily, and make him choke as he declares veto after veto who he really is.”
Tagging along the same principled lines, make the move to impeach. Make the move to vote to convict. FORCE THEIR CONGRESSIONAL HAND to declare.
There will be healthy political consequences to FORCING politicians to govern according to the Originalist Intent of the Constitution.
This needs to be fought out in the courts first. If the courts rule that Obama has overreached that will greatly strengthen the Republican’s case if they need to proceed further.
“As I’ve said before, even though I think Obama deserves impeachment and conviction, unless there is a two-thirds majority to convict in the Senate, it would be a bad idea to begin that process.”
_______________________________________
It is understood, your position. This president deserves this at the very least. You are missing a much larger element to the process of impeachment—-the American people. They are NOT on board with you and me and to proceed would be politically inadvisable.
Recall for a moment the trouble Bill Clinton was in when he was enmeshed in the Monica Lewinsky affair. He lied to the American people multiple times.
When the story broke about Ms. Lewinsky in January, 1998, his popularity began to INCREASE. Not only with democrats, but with republicans as well. Go figure. Among republicans, Clinton’s job approval reached 45%—-its highest of his entire presidency. Eight years.
A scandal of damning circumstances.
Perjury.
Receiving extra-marital oral sex in the white house.
Bottom line?
The American people are very much a significant variable in pursuing impeachment proceedings. Huge risk.
If you think the media has run cover for this BOZO (screaming “RACIST” at any rebuke of his policies or behaviors) during his campaigns and administration, you’ve not seen anything akin to how they would circle the wagons if he were to be impeached. Whew!…
FromPolitico: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/boehner-makes-sales-pitch-to-gop-113246.html#ixzz3Kmuc3mix
“Top House Republicans agree on a two-part plan to keep the government from closing in nine days. Now comes the hard part: selling it.
At a meeting in the basement of the Capitol Tuesday morning, Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and the GOP leadership team will face rank-and-file Republicans for the first time since President Barack Obama’s executive action on immigration. They will try to convince the troops to channel their anger at a mostly symbolic immigration bill, while agreeing to a separate funding package that would keep most of the government open for nine months, while funding immigration enforcement agencies for just a few months.
The meeting is the first big test of whether Boehner, Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) and Steve Scalise (R-La.) can accomplish what they have promised since a sweeping election victory this fall – that they can move beyond the days of ruling by crisis and prove they can govern responsibly.
By Monday night, leaders were beginning to gauge whether their colleagues would support a bill introduced by Rep. Ted Yoho (R-Fla.) that states the executive branch does not have the power to exempt some people from immigration laws – a direct affront to Obama’s moves. The Florida Republican’s bill is expected to garner widespread support in the House conference and give GOP lawmakers an outlet to vent some of their frustrations with Obama. The Senate is not likely to take up the measure.
Boehner and other GOP leaders hope that by allowing them to vote for the Yoho bill they can get enough support from the rank and file to move forward with a funding deal, which will keep nearly all the government open until September 2015, while funding immigration enforcement agencies on a short-term basis.”
This is doing what’s possible now, in this Congress. After January they can do more about the Homeland Security Department spending because Harry Reid will be gone and House bills will be taken up in the Senate.
IMO, they need to pass an immigration bill that outlines a program for providing a path to getting a green card (but never to citizenship!) for those who have been here many years. However, the implementation of that program would be dependent on a three year period in which the border was proven to be closed, with specific metrics for showing such. Send it to Obama and when he vetoes it, he will show he has no intention of closing the border. That, IMO, would put the GOP in a better position to win in 2016.
The progs are talking about how deportations are splitting up families and there is so much suffering and economic loss as a result. I say, “Cry me a river.” They broke the law. “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.” I have no sympathy for families that are suffering because they broke the law. None!
What the Republicans can do in the lame duck session is force Obama to “shut down” the government. It is an utter falsehood that something bad happened as a result of the last “shut down”.
Note also that nothing bad happened after Bill Clinton was Impeached and tried in the Senate. A few seats were lost, big deal.
The country elected Republicans to fight, so fight.
TRUTH: “Tagging along the same principled lines, make the move to impeach. Make the move to vote to convict. FORCE THEIR CONGRESSIONAL HAND to declare.”
His crimes are high and felonious, he merits it. His endless crimes should every single one be on the charging document, as well as his clearly treasonous intent.
Many say an impeachment would destroy any 2016 presidential hopes. I’m getting closer to saying I do not care. There is a war on our blessed home and we damn ourselves if we do not have the will to FIGHT.
JJ: “The progs are talking about how deportations are splitting up families and there is so much suffering and economic loss as a result. I say, “Cry me a river.” They broke the law. “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.” I have no sympathy for families that are suffering because they broke the law. None!”
What not one person is saying should be blindingly obvious to all: The only people splitting up families are the families themselves. So their anchor baby has citizenship and wants to stay? Get over it. Go home with your criminal family or stay and do Western Union for the rest of your life. We don’t care. Your self created familial conflicts have no bearing on our laws, nor our sympathies.
When I visualize these wankers I see the face of that “Vargas” illegal reporter kid, with his head always cocked at that weird angle with that sneer suggesting all who oppose them are bigots doomed to failure by the the sheer power of his contempt.
In light of their civilizational accomplishments and the collective negative societal balance they impose on us here, they have earned nothing but eviction and a harsh military response. They are beneath contempt. Vectors for disease, criminality, and the stunted civic mindedness that produced the hellholes they are fleeing. Only a suicidal polity would admit them.
Build the DAMN FENCE and man it heavily.
Obama wants the Republicans to impeach him. He wants big flashy votes trying to stop his EO on allowing illegals to stay that he can then portray as anti – immigrant i.e. anti Hispanic.
A better approach early next year would be to undertake a series of votes on non controversial house keeping matters that will make enforcement of immigration laws easier once a new Republican president takes over and votes on poll tested popular aspects of enforcing immigration laws that will force Democrats to vote for / against to help in making the choices clear for voters in 2016.
The president has also opened himself up in another way – by so cavalierly and broadly interpreting the laws he can hardly complain if a new Congress takes pains to detail exactly how the people here illegally are to be processed.
For example, the president has issued his order which disregards certain lower level convictions for certain crimes. The Congress should pass a stand alone bill that clearly states that all offenses including those he now ignores will be grounds for denying permanent status.
A bill specifying that if an applicant fails to disclose all past criminal offenses here and abroad that any status granted now can be revoked and will be grounds for permanently denying any future application, not to mention now but also grounds for future deportation.
A bill stating that anyone granted status cannot sponsor or be used to bring any relative now abroad to the US.
A bill making it very clear that the president’s EO granting status is only temporary and no one who accepts status under the president’s EO can be granted permanent status for any reason until after some future date.
A bill that requires states and local jurisdictions to cooperate with Federal Immigration authorities in processing deportations (especially criminal holds) or lose certain Federal funds. This will cut one way in Obama’s favor now but in 2017….
A bill that directs the Immigration authorities to return applicants to their home countries for processing by local US embassies unless there is some criterion met for danger in the home country. This can be used to override liberal judges in 2017 even as Obama will ignore it (assuming he signs it).
A bill liberalizing the process for people studying advanced degrees upon graduation – perhaps limited to certain fields – to stay after graduation and work.
A bill to allow agriculture workers to obtain seasonal visas, but qualified by strict limitations – e.g. overstaying the visas makes the offender liable for immediate deportation with no rights to contest and no ability to claim amnesty for home country issues etc.
A series of such votes would be a win-win in that if Obama signed them into law he would both restrict himself now and be enabling a future president. Even if he vetoes the Democrats would be on record which depending how they voted will either soften their support or help get them out of office.
Small incremental steps are worth more than a few flash big votes that make the Republicans looked untrustworthy.
Prepare to be bitterly disappointed by the Republican leadership. Sorry.
Otiose:
Yup, I like it. Smart, low key, popular, binding governance. I nominate you to be on the team that creates the proposals for our assault. Unless you stole them from someone else, then I nominate that guy…
“Prepare to be bitterly disappointed by the Republican leadership. Sorry.”
Pitchforks are at the ready chez moi.
All good suggestions, Otiose. I hope someone is listening.
The Republicans would be wise to overwhelm Obama with bills that he must either sign or veto. The more he vetoes, the more he will be seen as the one who says “no” and is the impediment to any sort of progress. The more he is seen in those terms, the more the Democrats in the Senate will begin to break with him on key votes. In time, the Republicans may be able to get enough Democrats on some votes to have veto-proof majorities.
I’m sure this is all wishful thinking on my part, but it certainly sounds good!
As much as I like Otiose’s suggestions, though, I’m also very sympathetic to the views expressed by Maquis here. It is a war and an invasion and Obama is complicit in all of it.
Regarding the “impeachment will hurt the Republicans” line, the 1998 vote didn’t exactly have that effect. Recall that the House didn’t vote to impeach until December 1998, and the Senate didn’t take up the matter until 1999. The next election was in 2000. The Republicans lost very few seats in either house, and that was just mostly attrition after four years of control, but they still maintained majorities in each chamber. And part of the reason that Gore had trouble that year was that he stood by Clinton and the country had Clinton fatigue at that point.
“What will Boehner and the Republicans do about Obama’s executive order on immigration?”
NOTHING 🙁 🙁
While we rightly castigate Obummer for his lies- if you like your plan, …. we give the Republicks a pass. Both McConnell and Boehner took pains during the election to tell us how they would stop Obama and get back to the principles of the country. And the sheeple returned them to office. 🙁
After the election, it is clear that neither of them have any intention of trying to control the growing cancer that is central government. They like the power and pomp of their positions. And 20 yrs from now, no one will remember who they were but the damage that they and Obummer are doing may not be repairable. 🙁 🙁
Doesn’t it seem that Obama will keep doing things that make people feel unsafe? Ebola, ISIS, immigration. He just seems out of sync with the public. So do dems. I don’t see their fortunes improving no matter what the GOP does.
I have a bit of a suspicion that the Republicans think that the amnesty will deeply alienate the black and Hispanic population, especially when the employer mandate kicks in and the $3000 per employee fines kick in for employing uninsured American citizens. They understand that the incentive is so high that there might as well be signs in every employment office that read “American citizens need not apply.” When businesses start firing their black and Hispanic employees and hiring Obama aliens, the anger is going to turn white hot just in time for the next Presidential election.
I’m not saying that this is a good strategy, but I think that there’s a certain sense of handing out all the rope the Democrats ask for.
“Only a suicidal polity would admit them.”
You’re beginning to catch on.
Actually, make that:
“Only a polity led by a president who despises that polity and wishes to murder that polity (by doing everything in his power to force that polity to commit suicide—all the while insisting on his own benevolence and morality) would admit them.”
File under: Divide and conquer, and lie, lie, lie…
“I have a bit of a suspicion that the Republicans think that the amnesty will deeply alienate the black and Hispanic population, especially when the employer mandate kicks in and the $3000 per employee fines kick in for employing uninsured American citizens. ”
You give them way too much credit.
If you look at the past leaders and statesmen of this country- Washington, Lincoln, Reagan, they had broad visions for this country and all of their actions worked towards that vision.
The Chamber of Commerce is for the immigration bill, hence so is Boehner and McConnell behind the scenes.
In the last 6 yrs have you seen any one item that the GOP has done that was forward looking for the country and the working people?
Given the answer is No, I don’t see them having the intelligence to do this. Also you are assuming the black and Hispanic populations care about the number of illegals in the country. I suspect when the MSM tells them that it is the fault of the GOP that they don’t have jobs, they will accept that idea as fact. Just like when the Health Care Premiums go up 30% next year, will the consumers blame Obummer or blame the insurance companies for raising their rates. I don’t have that much faith that the general population is capable of looking at the facts over going with their feelings and stereotypes.
Steve writes:
“Doesn’t it seem that Obama will keep doing things that make people feel unsafe?”
_______________________________________
In short form, yes. One may not recall that Media Matters was meeting daily in the white house. Everyday. Why, you ask?
So as to fashion (create) the narrative as it would be broadcast by the mainstream media. To ignore this is to do so at one’s peril. The low information voter is one of the targets of this strategy to distract, deflect, run cover for the white house. To underestimate the impact of this message-machine is simply ignorant.
A curious individual will have discovered that it is right out of the playbook of Franklin D. Roosevelt. Obama has said many times that he “felt” closest to FDR (and Lincoln).
He said as much while he employs FDR methods, techniques, strategies, tactics.
FDR hired hundreds and hundreds of journalists. They were federally paid employees.
Their job was to generate stories intended to distract from realities deleterious to FDR’s administration.
Their job was to create “news” to assist in positioning FDR in positive light. Propaganda. On a institutional level.
Obama’s relationship with the mainstream media today is similar (he who controls the message controls the reader/voter).
I hear the 24 notes for taps being played for our state
about the only thing that could save it, is an extreme external crisis that brings us together, etc…
game over…
Fading light dims the sight,
And a star gems the sky, gleaming bright.
From afar drawing nigh — Falls the night.
Day is done, gone the sun,
From the lake, from the hills, from the sky;
All is well, safely rest, God is nigh.
Then good night, peaceful night,
Till the light of the dawn shineth bright;
God is near, do not fear — Friend, good night.
Impeach.
Call Obola’s bluff. He says he wants it. The Dems say they want it. Then do it.
A major and significant reason is that there is disgust, disdain, lack of trust in the government, lack of faith in the government, resulting in voter apathy and justified deep-seated cynicism.
For me and the segment of the population that I’m a part of I see ungodly Cowardice. The virtue that undergirds all other virtues is Courage. There is an important tool that our Founding Fathers instilled in their system of checks and balances that is called impeachment and removal of a lawless and tyrannical executive.
Failure to impeach or even the desire to want to impeach such a lawless tyrant as Obola speaks to cowardice and betrayal.
So what if it fails!!! So what! So what! The mere action of doing so speaks volumes about the Courage of DOING THE RIGHT and GOOD THING. Doesn’t matter (at all) if it’s demonized by the Liberal Meanstream Media. Doesn’t matter (at all) if it’s demonized by the RINO establishment. You actually want to be demonized. Why? Because you want the name of a poster on this thread: Clarity Seeker.
You want to see who stands where. You want to see courage. You want to see lawlessness stopped politically with the political instruments available. Refusal to do so speaks to cowardice. Cowardice wildly breeds disgust, disdain, cynicism, and apathy towards the governmental system.
Is this what our soldiers died for? They died for moderate cowards who shat away the Constitution.
It’s really very simple. the democrats want to put these illegals on the path to citizenship because they believe, correctly, that the vast majority will eventually become democrat voters. This will virtually insure a democrat majority electorate, hence house, senate, and presidency. The establishment republicans want it because their masters, i.e. big business wants a large ready pool of cheap labor.
I work in the engineering field. The cry about issuing more H1B visas to get more foreign engineeers (aka hi-tech workers) into the country because we suffer from a shortage of engineers is the biggest bunch of bull shit you will hear since “If you like your medical plan, you can keep your medical plan.” There is no shortage. They just want to lower the cost by bringing in cheap foreign labor. The IEEE has been very vocal about this, not that you’d know it from our main-stream media.
In the 80’s US industry began seriously gutting the industrial base of this country by off-shoring our manufacturing base so as to benefit from cheap labor and relaxed regulations overseas. All in the name of short term profits for the shareholders. Continuing in that vein, it has long been seen as desirable to lower the labor costs in this country so as to be more in line with the rest of the world. The financialization and corrupt crony-capitalist policies have inevitably led to this situation. Wenow have an 18 trillion dollar debt that we can neither default on or inflate our way out of without massive economic and social upheaval. The corrupt geverning class has allowed their corrupt masters to privatize profits and make the losses the public’s (i.e. the tax payer’s) problem.
The post-WWII economy and our outsized prosperity resulted in large part from the fact that the rest of the world had been devastated by war while our industrial base remained untouched. It should be obvious to anyone who has been paying attention. It could not last. Instead of consolidating our position and insuring our future, our corrupt governing class has sold themselves as fast as they could for whatever they could get and posterity be damned.
The functional difference between the democrats’ and republicans’ positions on immigration reform is the difference between a minute before, and a minute after mid-night. And though I held out hope for this past election, and the incoming congress, they are now preparing the ground for breaking their promises even before they have assumed office.
I am reminded of Emma Goldman’s quote, “If voting really made any difference, they would make it illegal.”
Truth Unites… and Divides Says: “Failure to impeach or even the desire to want to impeach such a lawless tyrant as Obola speaks to cowardice and betrayal. ”
You have to look at the order of battle. The Republicans have a riled up base of maybe 25% of voters. The progs have a loyal base of about 25% of voters. In between lie the 50% of voters who are swayed by the progs’ biggest weapon – the MSM. For the progs the MSM is the equivalent of airpower on a field of battle. It gives them the decisive edge. The Republicans must fight smart. Charging into a battle they can’t win such as impeachment is a trap that the progs hope the GOP will fall into. The coverage by the MSM would be the equivalent of Abu Ghraib. Impeachment would be somewhat the equivalent of the violent protests the progs are now engaged in. Those protest tactics, though covered sympathetically by the MSM, are turning off a lot of LIVs, just as impeachment would.
The way forward as proposed by Otiose is brilliant. I’m stealing it (sorry Otiose), and sending it to both McConnell and Boehner. When you are the weaker of two adversaries, you have to use ju-jitsu. Keep making them vote against/veto common sense bills. Keep the pressure up. We have the numbers in both houses of Congress now to keep passing legislation. Always present our side as the moderate and reasonable and the progs as the unreasonable ideologues. The MSM will not cooperate, but they can’t not cover stories of new legislation in Congress and vetoes. We have to be like water on stone. Drip, drip, drip and wear them down. We will have a much stronger position in January than any time in the last six years. Every weapon in war has its best applications. Using control of Congress wisely to force Obama into corners he doesn’t want to be in is just such a weapon.
JJ,
I understand your argument, as well as Otiose’s. I really do. And I also think you understand mine. So we are working from mutual understanding.
Here’s what I say in rebuttal.
#1. Obama will be happy to continuously veto.
#2. The MSM will cover for him on those vetos.
Obola and the MSM will drip, drip, piss on the RINOs. And as he and the MSM does so, the disgusted, disdainful, untrusting, lost-all-faith-in-the-government conservatives will also join in the drip, drip piss on the moderate RINOs.
Use the tool of impeachment. Let the progs use their MSM tool. If the stupid LIV can’t wake up to Obola’s lawlessness, they certainly won’t wake up to his vetoing of GOP bills. Don’t be cowardly about the MSM. They are in decline and alternative media is ascending.
JJ and Otiose et al,
I wrote the following prior to Tim P’s comment:
“Refusal to do so speaks to cowardice. Cowardice wildly breeds disgust, disdain, cynicism, and apathy towards the governmental system.”
Tim P then writes the following validating what I wrote:
“And though I held out hope for this past election, and the incoming congress, they are now preparing the ground for breaking their promises even before they have assumed office.
I am reminded of Emma Goldman’s quote, “If voting really made any difference, they would make it illegal.”
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The GOP wants to make a difference? Remove the lawless tyrant Obola from office. PERIOD.
Bring a neutered Biden in for one year as POTUS.
JJ,
“For the progs the MSM is the equivalent of airpower on a field of battle. It gives them the decisive edge. The Republicans must fight smart.”
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You get it. Refreshing to observe some who do.
“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
– Sun Tzu
Leftists/Progressives control the message (with the low information voter). To recognize this is apriori. To understand it is to use it with care.
I like Otiose’s suggestions. If the republicans take that approach and even some of them are sent to Obama to veto, great. Then what? Send them up again, and keep doing it? Move on?
Until the main money backers of the republicans either do not want this, or there is a revolt within the party, I fear nothing will change.
I remain very cautiously optimistic. We will see very shortly what the new Congress intends to do.
I hope they will act as if they had spines and what concerned them was the welfare of the nation, instead of where their next campaign contribution was coming from, but I am doubtful.
Tim P: “I like Otiose’s suggestions. If the republicans take that approach and even some of them are sent to Obama to veto, great. Then what? Send them up again, and keep doing it? Move on?”
Keep doing it. Keep forcing OUR narrative into the public sphere. Turn frightened Dems in the Senate and create veto proof bills, even a coalition. Hammer Zero relentlessly.
Though I doubt anyone will read this, I have to come back to this thread to follow up on a my earlier comment that the republicans want immigration reform because they are a wholly owned subsidiary of large crony capitalist corporations who want a ready pool of labor that is willing to work for less than Americans will settle for.
There have been several articles in the last few days discussing this.
To wit, “But the GOP’s business wing remains dominant, partly because it is backed by media progressives who also favor large-scale immigration. The business-backed GOP leaders want a steady supply of non-voting, low-wage migrants, either illegals or temporary guest-workers. That strategy has proven economically successful – company profits have risen as median U.S. wages have remained flat since 2000. Democratic legislators are eager to aid the migration of poor Latinos into the United States’ job market, but they want the migrants to become citizens so they can strengthen Democratic political machines.”
This has been going on for some time and the entire fault cannot be laid at Obama’s feet (as much as I wish it could be).
“In the mid-2000s, for example, President George W. Bush pushed Congress to create a free-market of labor in North America, which would have allowed U.S. employers to freely hire an unlimited number of Mexicans instead of higher-wage Americans for any jobs in the United States.”
Both the democrats and the republicans are working together on this, which is the only true bi-partisan effort in Congress.
The present political class has been entirely corrupted. If they are not trans-national socialists, they are bought and sold pawns of crony capitalist big business who would like nothing better for their corporate bottom line than a ready supply of serfs to work their plantations. Technology marches on, but nothing has really changed. Let’s not forget comments like those uttered by G.E.’s CEO Jeff Immelt who said, “…state run communism may not be your cup of tea, but their government works.”
Once again, the American public has been sold a bill of goods.
Obama and Congress are about to allow more immigrants into the country than jobs have been created since 2009. On top of that, these immigrants are to receive social security benefits as well as other state dispensed largesse. We already have an 18 trillion dollar debt. How are we supposed to pay for it?
I am becoming increasingly doubtful that the American public is willing to do much more than vote about it, and then simply grouse and forget it when their elected representatives proceed to break every promise they have made. Many have become too fat, lazy and weak to not only do the actual work, but anything other than complain about it.
Perhaps Gruber was correct after all? Again, I hope I am wrong and things play out differently, but I am increasingly fearful that my analysis of the situation is more or less correct and real change will have to be affected like this. Nobody willingly gives up prestige, wealth, and power. Nobody. One thing I am fairly certain about is that it will get worse before it gets better, and getting better is not guaranteed.
/ Here’s what I saw recently on the web. Like it? /
Obama: Our 3-in-1 Deity !
Obama’s Desk, Obama’s Chairs, Obama’s Bench.
This is what Obama seems to see instead of “the executive, legislative, and judicial branches” of our American government.
As one who promised change, furniture arranger Obama can subtly fit all those chairs and that bench into the Oval Office while few seem to notice or care!
America is the Tree of Liberty – the Tree that promises liberty and justice for all.
But America also provides for the pruning of any and all tyrants that are attached to the same Tree!
(For dessert Google “Zany Obama-Inspired Quips” and “The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up.”)