Ebola: questions for the CDC—and the government
Commenter “Wolla Dalbo” has some questions the CDC should be asking itself. Remember, the Ebola patient in the US went to the Dallas hospital with symptoms and was sent home only to return again several days later, much sicker. Wolla wonders:
The CDC director gave the impression that, when he was contagious, the patient only had contact with his family members, who were the ones most likely to have been infected with Ebola. But, what about that first hospital visit?
How did the patient get to and from the first hospital? Did his relatives drive him, or did he use a cab or public transportation? We weren’t told.
Did our Ebola carrier sit for any length of time in a busy public waiting room, where countless patients, visitors and staff came in and out? How about a smaller waiting room? How about all the medical personnel who he came into close contact with, the people he passed in the hall, and did he use the bathroom at any point? Did he do any visiting or eating out?
None of these questions were even mentioned.
There are many more questions that haven’t been touched on, including ones I asked in yesterday’s post: why, given the fact that the man had just come in from Liberia, which is a hotbed of Ebola, was he treated and released? Why was he not quarantined and tested?
In fact, why is the technique of quarantine not used more in this situation, including for the man’s family? Is it a case of some patients’ rights thing trumping all else? Or is simple incompetence at work? Or is it considered too expensive or bothersome to quarantine people? It would be a lot more expensive and bothersome if we have an Ebola epidemic—expensive in every sense of the word.
When I Googled “Dallas Ebola and quarantine” just now, however, I discovered that the EMT crew members who transported the Dallas patient have been quarantined and the ambulance pulled from service, according to the headline. That would make sense (and answer one of Wolla’s questions), because they would have been exposed to the patient’s bodily secretions without hazmat suits. But reading the article itself, I find that the crew has merely been “restricted to their homes,” which is not the same as quarantine. Their conditions are being “observed” and I would assume as soon as they show symptoms they would be raced to the hospital.
But that seems a foolish way to handle the situation. Not only can we not be 100% certain that people are not contagious until they show symptoms, but if they are only removed from contact with others when they show symptoms, wouldn’t it already be too late to stop the disease’s spread?
Also, as Wolla asked, what about others—including staff—in the emergency room and the hospital in general? The article about quarantine says that 12 to 18 people are being “monitored” (not quarantined) in this manner. Some are members of his family, some are not, and my guess is that others are people such as the staff in the emergency room he visited the second time. What about the first time? And what about all the days he was symptomatic in-between? Was he only in his home?
I’ve also seen no serious talk by officials yet of barring flights and/or passengers (especially non-citizens) from West Africa to this country. Why not? Some airlines have done it voluntarily, even before the Dallas patient arrived, but they seem to mostly be European-based. How did he get here? Are there direct flights to the US from the West African countries involved? Or is it all done through Europe, and therefore harder to control?
I wish there was a sense that smart and competent people are in charge here. Sadly, that sense is lacking.
[ADDENDUM: The Ebola patient in Dallas seems to have had more common sense, and been more on the ball, than the health workers he encountered in the Dallas hospital:
The first Ebola patient diagnosed in the United States told relatives that he notified health care workers the first time he went to the hospital that he was visiting the U.S. from Liberia, the man’s sister said Wednesday…
Dr. Mark Lester confirmed Wednesday that a nurse asked Duncan on his first visit whether he had been in an area affected by the Ebola outbreak that has killed thousands in West Africa, but that “information was not fully communicated throughout the whole team.”
All the protocols in the world cannot stop human error, if people don’t follow them. This was handled so badly that one would think the Secret Service was in charge.]
Maybe no one – short of FEMA or equivalent – has the authority and mandate to impose the necessary precautions.
It is all too obvious that America has functionally become a third world country, in which our esteemed leaders feed us BS in order to “reassure” us. We are living the death of common sense, and it will kill us. From a strictly medical and epidemiologic standpoint, this is tantamount to death by stupidity. The remedies are all too obvious, even to the non-medicos, yet will not be put into effect. It just ain’t PC- the infected are all either black or bleeding-heart volunteers.
Dr. Frieden could be doing a lot via his public platform, but he is not. He is probably sending daily briefings to Hussein instead; just another “intelligence” report, handled in the same, “I might read it, I might not” fashion.
1. Does the patient speak English?
2. If serious travel bans are not enacted today, this whole thing is on Obama.
Health officials tracing Dallas Ebola patient’s path
Dallas ambulance was in use 2 more days
See this re the route taken.
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/01/how-ebola-infected-man-got-to-dfw/
And note that Brussels Airlines denies being contacted by the CDC and for obvious reasons does not know the name of the infected traveler.
But not to worry; the CDC is “monitoring” something or other.
they are not hiding them away in quarantine because of their race… they are not shutting down flights cause liberia needs the economic deals (said one pundit).
if you cant stop illegal aliens from south america carrying a few other deseeases (including a new one which causes severe bone pain), then how can you be racist enough to stop this?
they had similar issues with typhoid mary..
if you read about her, and the legal arguments around her, you will get a heck of a big lesson into what is going on here.
Typhoid Mary: Captive to the Public’s Health
http://www.learner.org/workshops/primarysources/disease/docs/leavitt.html
When health department officials forced Mary Mallon into the city ambulance and took her against her will into Willard Parker Hospital and then to her isolation on North Brother Island in March, 1907, they acted with uncertain legal authority. The basic question of whether or not health officials could take away a healthy individual’s liberty in the name of protecting the public’s health had not yet been answered in court.
it was later answered when the AIDs epidemic came and they could not quarantine or prevent desease spread by those infected…
so now you have your asnwer..
not that it helps any
its just legal argument followed to an absurd end
(note that the only way they ended locking up mary was because she refused to give up working in kitchens)
its depressing to know this stuff and be useless…
lacking all respect, and future…
Our population and politicians will only appreciate the miracle of our agriculture when we have a famine. Likewise, we have become complacent and reckless in guarding against contagious disease. (Pesticides bad! Vaccines bad!) Sorry to say but we can only learn through hard lessons. And even the hard lessons are efficacious for only a short period of time. Witness 9/11/2001.
This isn’t incompetence or irresponsibility, this is criminal negligence. This is monstrous design. It is impossible to imagine that Obama hasn’t been fully advised of the facts, risks and potential consequences.
Once a pandemic gathers momentum it is impossible to stop. Whereas the earlier a quarantine is implemented, the greater the chance that a highly communicable disease can be contained.
That the CDC isn’t covering these, to even laymen, obvious questions means keeping the public in the dark and doing nothing is… intentional policy at the highest levels.
Please, other than wishful thinking and a reluctance to consider an appalling probability, what evidence is there that Obama wants to keep Ebola out of the US? How much more evidence is needed, than the fact that our borders remain open to consider that possibility?
Simply ask, if Obama did want to allow for the possibility of a pandemic in America but had to do it covertly… what would he do differently than is and, is not being done, right now?
Were the most basic of measures being taken, then if ineffective, the possibility of incompetence might be responsible. But when nothing is being done, incompetence is completely insufficient as explanation and that leaves intent as the only possibility.
As a physician, I am not particularly concerned – at the moment. (As an aside, I grew up close to that hospital in Dallas.)
I do have concerns regarding the bureaucracy. Who is going to pay for all the false-positive admissions? If the patient had been admitted and later had a viral disease, like the flu, would an insurance company pay for a disease that could easily be treated as an out-patient? (I doubt it.) In retrospect, it is easy to see that a mistake was made, but the push to cut cost affects judgement.
Health officials are closely monitoring a possible second Ebola patient who had close contact with the first person to be diagnosed in the U.S., the director of Dallas County’s health department said Wednesday.
Miles: 5 DISD students possibly exposed to Ebola
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/01/thompson-dallas-county-ebola-patient-cases/16524303/
The director continued to assure residents that the public isn’t at risk as health officials have the virus contained.
“I have no doubt that we’ll stop this in its tracks in the U.S.,” Frieden said. “But I also have no doubt that – as long as the outbreak continues in Africa – we need to be on our guard.”
hunh? what difference doe4s it make if your not going to take basic precautions agianst a pandemic…
and given that its now in the US, its technically a pandemic, not an epidemic…
and this is NOT comforting
Centers for Disease Control has issued guidelines to U.S. funeral homes on how to handle the remains of Ebola patients. If the outbreak of the potentially deadly virus is in West Africa, why are funeral homes in America being given guidelines?
The three-page list of recommendations include instructing funeral workers to wear protective equipment when dealing with the remains since Ebola can be transmitted in postmortem care. It also instructs to avoid autopsies and embalming.
i guess they expect people to die, not be diagnosed and make it to the funeral home and maybe be autopsied before that…
nice.
we have a political elite who make forest gump look smart… Idiocracy is not a movie, its a documentary
mousebert:
The number of exposed people is still small enough to be quite aggressive about quarantining. An ounce of prevention, etc. The public health people and the government should have protocols in place, including the way it would be paid for. Emergency funds could be used. It would be relatively inexpensive compared to the consequences if it’s not done.
But they are like deer in the headlights.
Artfldgr:
I saw the movie “Idiocracy” for the first time a year or two ago. And it struck me that when it was made it seemed like a very far-fetched satire, but by the time I saw it, it wasn’t very far from truth.
at least now they have a use for those camps they made and have soldiers stationed at… and the large quantity of fema isolation body bags… i mean “multi-use cremation containers.”
the containers, under patent # 5,425,163, “are cremation containers for multiple bodies,” that, “generate very little pollution.”
https://www.google.com/patents/US5425163?dq=patent:5425163&hl=en&sa=X&ei=H0AsVICnEY2xyATYyYLwAw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA
a billion dollars was spent ordering them.
worried yet?
Army Regulation 210—35
Installations / Civilian Inmate Labor Program
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf
DHS ordered 140 million long-life meals or MREs (meals ready to eat). (the military orders their own)
The Department Of Homeland Security Is Hard At Work With One Billion New Bullets
http://www.businessinsider.com/dhs-fletc-ammunition-purchases-750-million-200-million-40-caliber-rounds-2013-1
but why pay attention to any of this?
lets have some more jello posts!
As another physician, I am not going to let myself be deflected by mousebert’s concerns about false-positive diagnoses. That is a distraction, IMHO. It seems there is a quite quick test for ebola.
What distresses me, as I said earlier, is the death of common sense, and the triumph of melanin-associated PC. The prospect of explosive spread is real. Kids were exposed to the sick man; those kids are now at home, being “monitored” (whatever that means–probably with a thermometer) and will infect their families if they become ill.
Artfldgr:
Once again you feel the need to berate and insult me for what—jello posts (the last one of which, by the way, was about a year and a half ago)? Or just not writing about every single detail that you consider worth mentioning?
I spend hours a day on this blog, and probably something like 80% of what I write is of the utmost seriousness. However, life—and this blog—is not all serious. We all need relief now and then, and I also try to provide that, both to myself and to my readers.
Your insults are not only inappropriate, but, more importantly, they take away from your message needlessly. I understand that you feel the information is urgent, and not getting the attention it deserves (I often feel that way about my blog, too). But insulting people is most definitely not the way to get more people to listen.
Despite all sorts of CDC warnings and briefings about Ebola that have apparently been given to U.S. health care professionals, it is now being reported that Doctors/hospital staff at the first hospital the patient visited–that just sent him home with some antibiotics–never asked him any questions about recent foreign travel.
I’m also having a hard time with this idea of just telling possibly exposed people to stay in their homes, as opposed to having them in strict quarantine in a medical facility. So what if one of these people, or one of their family members, is irresponsible or not too bright and doesn’t take this “stay at home” business seriously and say, goes to the store or sneaks out to visit a friend or even goes to the the mall or a movie?
P.S.–I find that over the last few years British newspapers have consistently been reporting on all sorts of stories and relating information that might embarrass Obama and his administration that U.S. newspaper just won’t report on.
Thus, today’s UK Daily Mail is reporting that Dallas authorities believe that there might be as many as a dozen people who might have a good chance of coming down with Ebola.
Wolla Dalbo:
I agree about the British papers.
See the ADDENDUM I added.
We are witnessing a spectacle of incompetence on multiple levels of government not quite like anything I recall before — from the Secret Service letting armed felons onto elevators with the President and ignoring its own agents’ reports that gunshots hit the White House until housekeepers found the broken glass, to the CDC treating Ebola as if it were the common cold and talking down to concerned Americans as if we were children with bad dreams, to our golf-player-in-chief Obama calling ISIS “jayvee,” insisting it has nothing to do with Islam, and skipping more than half of his intelligence briefings while the Middle East collapses around his ears. Are there any competent adults left? If so, would the last one please turn out the lights?
Georgia
31.53968172161395n 84.61687088012695w
31.189492001347457n 84.14411544799805w
31.984782715952374n 83.30022811889648w
[6 more not listed]
West Virginia
38.69441999887882n 79.97963190078735w
Oregon
45.9269757888964n 119.26109790802002w
Texas (very large)
29.96463874609728n 94.0794038772583w
you decide… as i can find lists of dozens and dozens of recently constructed facilities, either standing alone, or as part of other facilities.
REX 84
Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a classified “scenario and drill” developed by the United States federal government to suspend the United States Constitution, declare martial law, place military commanders in charge of state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens who are deemed to be “national security threats”, in the event that the President declares a “State of National Emergency”.
Rex 84 was written by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, who was both National Security Council White House Aide, and NSC liaison to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and John Brinkerhoff, the deputy director of “national preparedness” programs for the FEMA. They patterned the plan on a 1970 report written by FEMA chief Louis Giuffrida, at the Army War College, which proposed the detention of up to 21 million “American Negroes”, if there were a black militant uprising in the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84
Operation Garden Plot
Operation Garden Plot, also known as The Department of Defense Civil Disturbance Plan (18 USC 1385 Posse Comitatus Act), is a general US Army and National Guard plan to respond to major domestic civil disturbances within the United States
Garden Plot was last activated (as Noble Eagle) to provide military assistance to civil authorities following the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. The Pentagon also activated it to restore order during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots Under Homeland Security restructuring, it has been suggested that similar models be followed
Operation Noble Eagle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Noble_Eagle
In a time of national emergency declared by the President, partial mobilization authorizes the President to order members of the ready reserve to active duty for a period not to exceed 24 consecutive months
Non-Detention Act
The Non-Detention Act of 1971 was passed to repeal portions of McCarran Internal Security Act of 1950 specifically Title II, the “Emergency Detention Act”. It had allowed for detention of suspected subversives without the normal Constitutional checks required for imprisonment. The Non-Detention Act requires specific Congressional authorization for such detention. Passed as Public Law 92-128, 85 Stat. 347 (1971), it was codified at 18 U.S.C. § 4001(a).
National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive
Executive Directive 51″ for short
created and signed by United States President George W. Bush on May 4, 2007, is a Presidential Directive which claims power to execute procedures for continuity of the federal government in the event of a “catastrophic emergency”. Such an emergency is construed as “any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions.”
The directive further says that, in the case of such an emergency, the new position of “National Continuity Coordinator” would be filled by the assistant to the president for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism The directive also specifies that a “Continuity Policy Coordination Committee”, to be chaired by a senior director of the Homeland Security Council staff, and selected by the National Continuity Coordinator, shall be “the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination”.
The “National Continuity Policy, Annex A, Categories of Departments and Agencies
http://www.fbiic.gov/archive_07/doc/NSPD_HSPD_AnnexA.doc
but why bother to discuss spies, and foregn intrigue, and the laws that they are making? much better to talk about the dresses at the next red carpet event…
Wolla Dalbo: on “Squawkbox” this morning, I watched an infectious disease specialist cheerily inform America that we have no reason whatsoever to be concerned about Ebola in Dallas because “we’re very prepared: Infection-control people in hospitals over the past two months have been reviewing all their infection- control procedures.” When his interviewer asked, if that’s so, why was the Ebola patient permitted to leave the first hospital he visited only a few days ago, the Doctor’s bright smile wavered only momentarily. He stumbled out some kind of reply about waiting to find out more facts and then swiftly reverted to Pollyanna status, assuring his interviewer that America will do just fine with Ebola because we have much better supportive medical care than Africa can provide, so that our mortality rate will be much lower than theirs. Why, he happily predicted, he wouldn’t be surprised if we can do even better than 30% !! (That certainly did it for me — after all, we can spare 3 out of 10 Americans, now can’t we?) If you’re feeling the need of some Panglossian cheer, you can find a video clip of the interview here:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102049212
Wallo Dalbo–Gene Tierney was exposed to German Measles by someone who sneaked out of quarantine in WWII:
‘Fate played a terrible trick on me just before the birth of my first child, Daria. It was war time, 1943, and I went to the Hollywood Canteen to meet the soldiers and sailors. A female Marine who was there told me she had skipped quarantine that night just to come and meet me. A year later, I met the same girl again on the tennis courts at a friend’s home in Hollywood. She reminded me of the night she had broken quarantine.
“I got the German measles,” she said. “Did you get them, too?”
I just said, “Yes, I got the measles.” I didn’t tell her that, in the meantime, I had given birth to a retarded child because of it.’
I, for one, miss your Jello posts. I had feared you’d moved on. to pudding, perhaps.
Once again you feel the need to berate and insult me for what–jello posts (the last one of which, by the way, was about a year and a half ago)? Or just not writing about every single detail that you consider worth mentioning?
i guess.
but note… if whats coming comes, will you think THEN that maybe, these things should have been brought up and discussed?
heck.. how many here know about whats been done?
we avoid these things like the plague…
personally, so many of us here have discussed all manner of things that are related to these other things, but since almost no one knows they exist, they believe that whats happening cant happen as there is no infrastructure, laws, and so on to cover it. but there ARE those things.
personally… i have a right to berate whomever i feel, and if obama makes for martial law, and we have not discused all the stuff that he has at his disposal, and the preparations made, its my feeling that those things could have replaced jello posts.
its a matter of what one thinks is important. when drowning, i think life preserers are important, when a ship is sinking, i dont think discussing the arrangements of the deck chairs is important.
but i have not berated you… just given my opinion that when one is to be hanged, its frivolous to discuss which dress to wear… but then again, one has to know the information abut the situation to realize that one is wasting time on frivolity, no?
they want to implement rex84…
its like having a button on the desk that destroys the world… it begs to be pressed… well, if you make a law that suspends the constitition,allows for gulags, and one prepares by making them all… it begs to be used by those who would want such a thing to be exploited to their ends.
my view is that of my family which is that of people that survived such events, and camps… for some reason, refugees of stalin find jello discussions on the titanic post iceberg frivolous. you mayh not think so, and so see it as being berated. heck, if you were feminist, you might see it as a patriarchal thing against what women find important…
take it as you wiol, or wont..
but regardless… if your marched to a camp for your own good, you will not think that jello was the wise thing…
oh… and i feel the more lead time one has, the better. so learning to swim in the middle of drowning is bad timing… so the fact that the last post was over a year ago, is kind of like that… espcially now that we have a ready made reason that seems accpetable to implement the laws of the land, like rex..
note the name… as lex rex is law over a king, and rex is king, without lex, i guess its king without law, or dictator… no?
Artfldgr:
The odd thing is that no one’s avoiding talking about “these things”—certainly not avoiding talking about Ebola, or the inadequate public health and government reaction.
That is what this thread is about.
I have no idea why you think anyone here is ignoring what you think they’re ignoring. Just because they sometimes think and/or write about other things? Makes no sense to me.
Lurch:
Oh, no, I haven’t banned jello posts. It’s merely that there’s just so much you can say about jello. I’m always on the lookout for more, though.
i left out that i agree with your point that life is not all about the serious… but that does not mean that one should cast caution to the wind and ignore the set up.
the only reason you think that this is ok, is that you do not really realize what is arrayed around you. what laws and things have been made, and how they are arranged to be taken advantage of, and even used in ways not intended, but possible.
life is funny in that tiny things often mean a lot later. the person who decided to not stay a few minutes, and dies on the way home… the disbelief that suspends action or focus, that later is seen to mean everyting to the outcome. tons of that kind of thing, but are we wise enough to pay the lesson heed?
i posted a while back an article that was about the jewish people and one of their organizations who, instead of acting, thought it would be better to wait, and so, doomed thousands to the camps.
in hindsight we shall see… no?
if nothing happens, then your right, and i was an ass
if something happens, and hell on earth comes to the states, would you feel the same about such posts?
i find that hindsight has a way of changing what we think was important. looking back to your earlier life, do you not see choices that you made which in retrospect were pretty stupid and you should havce known about it? of course. call it the curse of age…
time will tell…
we all have limited time and space and contact.
we will only know in the future if that was used well, or if something could have taken the place of it.
its been a long complaint of men that women tend to not take the serious seriously… they feel the need to toss in frivolity and fun… girls just want to have fun, eh?
Of a power already regarded, with varying degrees of apprehension, complacency or frivolity , as likely to be England’s enemy one day! Dare Call It Treason
“A frivolous society can acquire dramatic significance only through what its frivolity destroys.”
― Edith Wharton
“It would seem that one might, at least with equal justice, demand attention to a series of collective historic dramas which lifted hundreds of millions of human beings out of nonexistence, transforming the character of nations and intruding forever into the life of all mankind.”
― Leon Trotsky, History of the Russian Revolution
Frivolity is inborn, conceit acquired by education.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
Indulging in unrestrained and immoderate laughter is a sign of intemperance, of a want of control over one’s emotions, and of failure to repress the soul’s frivolity by a stern use of reason.
Saint Basil
Frivolity is a stern taskmaster.
Bill Griffith
First fight. Then fiddle. Brooks
its opinion, and mine is worth what i am paid for it
NOTHING…
so dont be so peeved that i think jello is frivolous when soviet bombers are jabbing at us, our leader is hell bent on a rex event, and so on..
🙂
it is easy to see that a mistake was made, but the push to cut cost affects judgement.
And costs were intentionally raised by the Hussein Regime in ACA.
This Brick Wall Made From Jell-O Is Perplexingly Beautiful 09/04/2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/04/jello-walls_n_5759680.html
but note… if whats coming comes, will you think THEN that maybe, these things should have been brought up and discussed?
Did you read my last reply to you linked to my blog, yet?
Itchy-O Plots World Domination With Jello Biafra
Winsted library holding “Jello Fest” Sept. 13
Some little known Fairview history “They call me Mellow Jello”
Jiggle It: The History of Gelatins, Aspics and Jellies
http://www.history.com/news/hungry-history/jiggle-it-the-history-of-gelatins-aspics-and-jellies
food with gelatin likely peaked along with sales of Jell-O mix in the 1960s, during the era of color TV, the space program and Tupperware. But the arc of gelatin’s popularity stretches back centuries and spans continents.
The oldest recipes for “jellies”–gelatin-based savory dishes–date to the early 1400s. In them, collagen-rich pig’s ears and feet were boiled and then filtered into special bags
The Liberian community in Texas is not reassured by the CDC:
Just a few minutes ago on FOX they were reporting that four of the Ebola case’s relatives who were apparently living in the same house with him were children, who attended four different Dallas schools, apparently during the time in question but, not to worry, they’re “keeping a close eye on them.”
neo-neocon at 2:43 pm,
“Makes no sense to me.”
Think ego and compensation for an inferiority complex expressed through the need for adulation and when not received, he reacts with patronizing insult.
I’ve frequented this blog for many years and artfldgr has insulted and berated yourself and others repeatedly. You have the patience of a saint.
I’m not going to worry about how that might offend because “personally… i have a right to berate whomever i feel”…
BTW, I checked a couple of the latitude and longitude #’s he gave and the WA and OR ones appear to be a correctional facility and a prison, not FEMA camps.
Soon after that ol’ Shep Smith had an interview with an infectious disease specialist–white coat and all–who very confidently ssured viewers that there was “absolutely no chance of contracting Ebola unless you had close contact with the carrier’s bodily fluids,” which Shep bought hook, line, and sinker.
I do not like arrogant “scientists” who believe they know it all, and assure me that there is “absolutely no chance” of something or other happening, especially in the case of diseases which have a nasty habit of mutating.
Unfortunately, I do not have that much trust in someone in a white coat whose obvious agenda was to calm the public’s fears.
Moreover, I believe I saw a story a few days ago, coming out of one of the Ebola “hot zones” in Africa, that indicated that it was still uncertain if contact with bodily fluids was, indeed, the only method of transmission.
Ebola Victim in Texas Is Identified as a Liberian, Thomas Eric Duncan
Mr. Duncan, the first person to develop symptoms outside Africa during the current epidemic, had direct contact with a woman stricken by Ebola on Sept. 15, just four days before he left Liberia for the United States, the woman’s parents and Mr. Duncan’s neighbors said.
In a pattern often seen here in Monrovia, the Liberian capital, the family of the woman, Marthalene Williams, 19, took her by taxi to a hospital with Mr. Duncan’s help on Sept. 15 after failing to get an ambulance, said her parents, Emmanuel and Amie Williams. She was convulsing but also seven months pregnant
Turned away from a hospital for lack of space in its Ebola treatment ward, the family said it took Ms. Williams back home in the evening, and that she died hours later, around 3 a.m.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
a responsible person.. exposed and yet left anyway.
i bet what he hoped was to get suprior care i the US rather than the care he would get in liberia, so throwing caution to the wind, he did not care if a million died, as long as he was saved.
a real humanitarian.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mr. Duncan then helped carry Ms. Williams, who was no longer able to walk, back to the family home that evening, neighbors said.
In an office with a large FedEx sign outside the building in downtown Monrovia, Mr. Brunson said that Mr. Duncan quit abruptly on Sept. 4, giving no reason. But Mr. Brunson said he knew that Mr. Duncan had family members in the United States as well.
NBC is now reporting that there were five children exposed, but it is not clear if they were family members or not, and the schools they attended remain open.
I sure hope they are right about how hard it is to catch Ebola.
I checked a couple of the latitude and longitude #’s he gave and the WA and OR ones appear to be a correctional facility and a prison, not FEMA camps.
and i pointed out that some of them are in correctional facilities. ie. expanded areas of similar locations.
if you wanted to keep the public guessing, where would you put them? in the open with signs, fema gulag, or as part of other facilities?
some are on air force bases.. others are part of army bases… (civilian labor camps)
so your point is well known, and the problem is that what you expecvt is something like a gulag, which is not possible in a free country, but IS in a communist state. or a concentration camp, which again, is possible in a militeary dictatorship, but not in a free country.
how do you tell? i have long ago pointed out that many things are hidden in ambiguity. a situation in which all can be denied until something changes.
i should point out that there is NEVER enough room here to really discuss things in full. so what i CAN put up, i put up, but that dont mean there isnt a heck of a lot of other stuff that can go with it too
Text of the National Emergency Centers Establishment Act / This bill was introduced on January 22, 2009, in a previous session of Congress, but was not enacted.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr645/text
Establishment of national emergency centers
(a) In general
In accordance with the requirements of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall establish not fewer than 6 national emergency centers on military installations.
while the law was not enacted, there are enough things out there to reveal the kind of thinking going on! that such things would not stand alone, they would be part of other facilities, ranging from bases to prisons.
Pentagon to Detail Troops to Bolster Domestic Security
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/30/AR2008113002217_2.html?hpid=topnews
KBR awarded Homeland Security contract worth up to $385M
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/kbr-awarded-homeland-security-contract-worth-up-to-385m?dateid=38741.5136277662-858254656
KBR, the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton Co. HAL, -3.19% said Tuesday it has been awarded a contingency contract from the Department of Homeland Security to supports its Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities in the event of an emergency.
The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to expand existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster, the company said
i guess they just pocketed the money and didnt build anyting… you can find LOTS of this… heck, remember the new NSA building?
this started long ago… ie. way before Obama.
but as it progresses more and more odd things have gone on, that in the absence of knowing this stuff going back to the 1990s.. appears odd. but knowing this other stuff, appears dasterdly…
they have been running practice sessions in many states. including DALLAS… where the ebola thing is now… but also in florida, wisconsin, and many others.
in fact, in many cases these things have petrified people, who did not know why apache helicopters and teams were flying low thorugh downtown and doing rooftop drills.
Why Did a Military-Style Helicopter Land in Downtown Dallas Tuesday Evening?
Military-style helicopters flying in urban American environments have taken place with some frequency of late. Just last month, residents in Minneapolis were surprised to see Blackhawks and Hughes 500 choppers buzzing through the downtown area. The flights were part of training exercises for the Department of Defense, but residents were upset that no one was notified until after the flights occurred. That wasn’t the first time it happened – the same thing occurred in 2012.
Similar exercises have taken place in both Miami and Chicago on several occasions. But as for the Dallas incident, so far no one seems to know why.
Blackhawk helicopters buzz Chicago skies for training exercise
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/22914511/blackhawk-helicopters-buzz-chicago-skies-for-training-exercise
i would say for you to read the executive orders and such of our dear leader… a bunch of them are about suspension of rights and all kinds of things.
Border search exception
ACLU website
Are You Living in the Government’s “Border” Zone?
https://www.aclu.org/national-security-technology-and-liberty/are-you-living-governments-border-zone
it really depends on whether you have been paying attention to this stuff since the early 1990s… even before that for some things..
but it reminds me of chess… where one puts a bishop, and it has no point to it… but 5 moves later, its protecting a queen that was moved into place for check mate.
the idea is to put things in place which make no sense. including lots of laws which are not used. that is, the creation of unconstitutional laws which are for show, or statements, and not enforced. the problem is that if some incident happens, they are already there, and can be enforced by will..
you see. a law cant be challenged as unconstitutional unless a person is harmed by it. this is why all the cases against obama’s validity of being in office fail, as its hard to show that even if he is illegally there, a individual is harmed by it. so a law which is not exerciesed cant be addressed until it is.
i would suggest you read Executive Order Number 12148, 12656, 10990, 10995, 10997, 10998, 11000, 11001, 11002, 11003, 11004, 11005, and quite a few others.
they set up state control of airports, radio, media, relocating people, seizure of means of production, and tons more stuff.
some of them go far back to the 1980s. but how old they are, doesnt matter. its what they allow or create once the condition that triggers them is created either by accident or on purpose, as the intent dont matter either
Wolla Dalbo
in one of my posts, either on this thread, or the other one neo started, gives you the names of the schools the children attend and other information.
i am good at information.
Geoffrey Britain
I’m not going to worry about how that might offend because “personally… i have a right to berate whomever i feel”…
the point is free speech… ok… just as you have a right to talk about me as if i am not there or not reading… duh… i am allowed my opinons, and if they are seen as berating, i have a right to that too… at least until dear leader makes all that illegal.
do you not agree? rex-84 is old, and lots of things have been built… what you want is evidence that is not ambiguous… think on that for a minute please. if it was blantantly what it is, then we would as a nation do what about it?
the requirement that a fema camp be out in the open with a sign that says, fema internment camp, open in the future is inane. even more so if you read the law which says to put them in other faciilties. why? because that way they can be watched and protected without having to be anything other than a finance line on the budget, and do not require much in the way of economy.
the point to them is what are they there for? why have them if they are not to be used? same issue with nuclear weapons, which ARE being used as a deterrent.
i have wanted people to take a look at what is arrayed and put in place over 30 years. a period way below the radar of our perceptions as far as things go. this is more so when the attention span of people talking doesnt go much past a year if it goes past 6 months. if its not connected in any way in that time, then its vaguely remembered but ultimately unconsidered.
why have executive orders that upon a national emergency, can call for the complete fundemental change of the US from a constitutional republic to a totalitarian state? wouldnt you fee better if that didnt not exist? if WWIII really happened with bombs a blaze would we really need such?
what if a despot decided to use them? how would they be negated if they negate the court that would end them? how could you ask the supreme court to end the eo powers if the eo powers allow the dissolution of the supreme court by suspension of constitution?
dont worry GOB… i am leaving..
there is no reason for a hated person to be around.
is there? no reason for me to exist, is there?
your lucky your not me… and probably have a smart snarky statement in reply to that. but no loss, right?
have a happy.
“Monitoring” is not the same as “Quarantining”, per the WSJ, which says that “between 12 and 18 people” are being monitored. But we already knew that, and are reassured.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/some-children-possibly-exposed-to-u-s-ebola-patient-1412188681?mod=djemalertNEWS
by the way… the reason i kept on about these sites here is that i would like to hear a rational discussion abut them. cant get that at the tin hats… and you cant get that at the left or the places where they are not acknolweged.
i thought that here, the eo, the camps in camps (built by law that way), and other things – like immigration influx, racism games and ebola – all three being in the laws as to initiating the use of such, could come together for rational conversation about them
silly of me… eh?
enterovirus d68 is aniother… not as nasty as ebola, but its killed… and its a reason to employ those laws and rules… especially since they shipped vetors to all states, including hawaii..
Don’t worry, Emir Barry is on the case. No virus left behind.
Color me paranoid, but I believe dear leader wants an ebola epidemic here at home. He wants millions of victims swamping our medical system and the panic that will ensue. With the assistance of the msm he will be able to convince the livs that he has to suspend the 2016 election in order to ‘save’ the country. Plus, he knows that he and anyone he cares about, if he actually does care about anyone other than himself, will be safe.
No artfldgr, the point is NOT free speech. The point is incivility and rudeness when no one has given reason for offense. The point is patronizing comments about other commenter’s ‘purported’ lack of discernment because they may not see things your way.
The problem with your conspiracy theory is that the supposed covert FEMA camps, wouldn’t work for a variety of practical reasons. That you fail to appreciate those objections calls into question the degree of discernment you possess.
Nor do I need unambiguous evidence of malicious intent. 1.8 BILLION rounds of illegal hollow point ammo can have but one purpose; preparation for armed civil unrest. Inadequate FEMA camps (both logistically and strategically) if asserted to be for political prisoners, fail that test.
Nor does ANYONE here ‘hate you’, certainly not I, though occasionally I have struggled with a bit of pity in your regard. Which you invite when you berate others and then whine about your own situation. Poor, poor pitiful artfldgr, who has a wife (many do not have a companion) who was blessed with a fine mind, many of whom were not, who does have asbergers but many have far worse and who has a job, many of whom do not. 3/4 of the world lives on less than $2.00 a day and you’re complaining about being prevented from advancement and contemplating suicide as a result. Please.
Since you didn’t answer the previous, Art, I assume that I’m free to go with this unlock.
The people in charge of your pension, you think will pay it out, while they have you in a FEMA concentration camp?
I wouldn’t bet on it. They don’t pay pension to dogs, cows, and pigs they plan to slaughter. Think on that for a moment.
The important thing is not about whether FEMA has camps people here refuse to talk about, the important thing is whether you are living a righteous life refusing to Obey their Authority.
So long as they got threat or promises of pension controlling you, you are not free to make judgments.
Parker…
I’m thoroughly in your camp.
What shocks me is that the CDC is playing Barry’s game.
I don’t understand why MDs are kissing his kiester.
%%%
Stock up on EVERYTHING required to get by during a three to four-week quarantine.
In particular: face masks. Pandemics are MOSTLY transmitted by airborne particulates.
The totally illogical, counter-factual, claim that ebola is not airborne is the height of disinformation.
Victims COUGH — and cough A LOT.
A SINGLE virus replicates approximately 100 copies before the victim/ host cell bursts — for lack of repair proteins. Viruses are so simple that they can be replicated inside one of your cells in short order. Most cells go from infection to death in less than an hour.
This is why viruses are so virulent. In a single day an unrestrained virus could generate 100 ^ 23 copies.
The only thing holding it back are rate limits within the human body and the human immune system — even if it fails at containment.
This is why Spanish flu and the Black Death went from infection to death in less than ten hours. Yes, that’s a confirmed figure.
The fact that ebola is a tad slower is no help at all. Like a viral earthquake, it’s destined to hit EVERYBODY. — That specifically includes EVERY single politician.
There really is no place to hide.
During the 14th Century, the royals fled their castles — indeed any structures — and started living in TENTS.
There may well be a run on RVs.
America may have to be repopulated from Alaska and the Yukon.
A 30% survival rate would make ebola MORE lethal than the Black Death.
Further, once the virus is out of the bag — it STAYS out of the bag.
Famously, the native Hawaiians found that they suffered 85% fatalities due to German measles, a disease that has not gone away.
These are the stats that we’re dealing with.
Ebola is such a threat that it will crater the financial markets and the real estate markets. Global trade will collapse — quite entirely.
For that’s exactly what happened in the 14th Century. Some areas of Europe have NEVER recovered their population densities from that era!
If ebola is not IMMEDIATELY quarantined Africa will become largely depopulated. Food imports will tail off to zero — almost immediately. Ships will turn around in mid-ocean — believe it.
Without food imports, without First World medicines, Africa should promptly lose 80 to 90% of its population — with all major cities totally breaking down. (In the 14th Century, cities were often TOTALLY abandoned! They looked like a neutron bomb had hit.)
The Star Trek episode “Miri” is the closest to where Barry is taking us — and the planet.
&&&
There is an upside: no-one will worry about biological warfare anymore.
And the Third World, so much on Barry’s mind, will collapse utterly. With rare exception, most Third World nations are critically dependent upon First World foodstuffs and agricultural technology.
This bleak future is only months away if containment is not achieved promptly.
For the curious, many a royal house died in the 14th Century, many a farm was abandoned… One could walk into mansions and take possession, directly!
There are surviving accounts of widows marrying field hands and giving them the keys to the massive estate. Her husband and children perished less than a week previously! Now her very life depended upon this new marriage. Mass criminality had been set loose upon the land.
My Great-uncle survived Spanish flu.
Yet I am worried.
I’m thinking it’s time for President Biden.
With the assistance of the msm he will be able to convince the livs that he has to suspend the 2016 election in order to ‘save’ the country.
That’s pretty funny. And we all know that our Democrat and so called moderates will refuse to obey that authority and call for constitutional processes to be restored… right? Right?
No, they aren’t? Then they are just as guilty of genocide as the Good Nazi Germans I guess. Case closed for the “moderates”.
I agree with Geoffrey Britain earlier. There is no doubt that Ebola is deliberately being introduced into the United States, for the simple reason that methods of preventing or controlling the spread of contagious diseases are well-known, even to laypeople. These methods include quarantines and travel bans.
There is just no way the “experts” are unaware of what they are doing. The most charitable thing I can say is that they are misguided, and are so blinded by political correctness that they believe that quarantining West Africa is “racist” and therefore risking the spread of the disease is actually preferable.
At worst, they are malevolent and know full well what they are doing. Their actions, such as throwing the border wide open and refusing to screen immigrants are certainly more likely to spread disease than contain it. They simply cannot be ignorant of that fact.
At the most basic level, they may simply be power-hungry and seek to foment chaos in order to have an excuse to declare a state of emergency and seize even more power.
Perhaps some are radical leftists who have a deep hatred for white Americans and believe we deserve to be “punished” for our “crimes”, even if that means that millions will die in agony.
Still others could be radical environmentalists who believe that human beings are a cancer on the Earth and that our population must be drastically reduced.
Whatever the excuse, if this becomes a real pandemic, the ultimate death toll may well surpass anything that Hitler, Stalin, or Mao ever imagined.
I use the name Hussein to refer to you know who. That’s because you know used chemical WMDs against his own people. Coincidence?
rickl…
That’s guaranteed if ebola breaks loose.
The happy MDs are telling TV viewers that 30-40% survival probabilities may be possible — if everything goes right.
They could be wrong.
When pandemics hit the New World the fatality rate often hit the high nineties.
&&&&
Any Black Power or Muslim advocate ought to be wary. The only known race to have genetic immunity to the worst pandemics known is the White race.
The critical gene ‘error’ is non-existent in African or Arab bloodlines.
Long before this outbreak, experts figured that the sole and only logical reason for this gene sequence is that the White race has been through multiple pandemics in the past. The relevant diseases never made it to India, Arabia or Africa.
This also would go a very long way towards explaining the very low population of Whites versus the other races.
Whites are by far the minority race in terms of population density, etc. The single most logical reason is that massive pandemics — like Spanish flu have choked down White populations in the ancient past.
This would also go a long way towards explaining long term historical trends — such as the population pressure out of China, Mongolia, etc. that never seemed to run into a counter pressure — even though the expanse of west Asia and Europe is staggeringly larger than the populated zone of China.
BTW, it’s now pretty much established that Whites became white in present day Mongolia. This is the sub-population that appears to have domesticated the:
dog
horse
cattle
camel
goat
sheep
pig
All of the above critters were native in their wild state in and around that portion of Asia.
When looked at from this point of view, the long term track record is actually astonishing.