A hundred thousand men just got elbowed in the stomach.
“What? I’m just saying that you’ve got to respect someone for standing up for Israel, honey.”
Here’s an fascinating look at some of the hand-wringing and self-righteous accusations (“blood bubbles”?!?!) regarding SodaStream that apparently flow freely in the kitchens and parties of liberal enclaves like Brooklyn. The comments section is worth reading (a lot of it surprisingly insightful):
I was neutral on SodaStream before the Scarlett J. flap, and can take or leave most soft drinks, but all this makes me want to run out to Bed Bath and Beyond and buy one.
Atta girl! This one tiny heartening story made my whole day.
And who knew about SodaStream? I’m going to order one.
As I noted on Instapundit:
“Oxfam’s fundraising bikini calendar just won’t be the same.”
And no, I don’t feel like responding to this seriously. Whether Ms. Johansson’s action was “good” or not depends upon why she did it. She can say one thing, believe something else, and we’ll never know the difference.
I don’t feel like wasting time trying to divine her intent.
…but maybe after five years of good behavior, I’ll take her for a review.
Fantastic — thank you, Scarlett.
And to think she was dating Sean Penn just a few years ago.
Scarlett’s mother is Jewish and she self identifies as Jewish so maybe not such a surprising decision, but welcome nonetheless.
As I write, guzzling down SodaStream’s seltzer water, I had no idea I was being politically incorrect.
It makes me want to take another swig.
%%%
The shear insanity of expecting peace while crossing up peaceful private enterprise …
I don’t hardly know what to type.
%%%%
In the longer run, this kind of logic means the death of the Ummah. For it is now sustained (entirely) on mining liquids (oil and gas) that must surely deplete.
As Nauru can testify: that day does come.
“Nauru boasted the highest per-capita income enjoyed by any sovereign state in the world during the late 1960s and early 1970s” Wiki
Alas, no more.
The Ummah will never be able to compete with India, China, and (even) Africa. The cultural tariff (Muslim hatred and violence) will be too great.
Their only shot is to buddy up with Israel and gain a portal to the real world.
As Egyptian tourism shows, Islamic hatred can even screw up a sure bet.
I hope it’s okay to ask this here… Does anybody here have suggestions for basic resources on the whole Israel-Palestine conflict? I almost want to say it’s for a friend, but no, it’s for me. I’ve only been interested in politics for a few years, and this is one of the issues that has thus far evaded my grasp; every article I’ve read on the subject requires the reader to have a substantial knowledge base already in place, so I only have bits and pieces of the overall picture.
I do want to know exactly what’s going on, but I’d rather not have to rely on Wikipedia for the basic information… so can anybody here point me toward a good summary of the subject?
I have a newfound respect for Johansson.
London Trader:
It’s surprising. A lot of left-wing Jews, which is the majority of Jews, both in Israel and around the world, are notoriously prejudiced or choose to compromise with ulterior motives, and will even lead the defamation of Israel.
That’s a great question, Tara. And it’s an astute recognition to mistrust Wikipedia, especially on Israel.
Abba Eban comes to mind. Here are his books:
Voice of Israel. 1957.
The tide of nationalism. 1959.
My people: the story of the Jews. 1968.
My country; the story of modern Israel.
Abba Eban: an autobiography. 1977.
The new diplomacy
Heritage : civilization and the Jews. 1984.
Personal witness : Israel through my eyes. 1992.
Diplomacy for a new century. 1998.
Tara:
Try this one, by the liberal attorney Alan Dershowitz. I haven’t read it, but I’ve heard it’s pretty good.
Israel: A History, by Martin Gilbert, an Oxford historian, is also well regarded.
n.n. That is not my experience. While Jews are in the main left wing they are mainly supportive of Israel with a few notable exceptions. BTW I’m Jewish and English which surprised quite a few people when I first moved to the US.
To be honest I found your comment “are notoriously prejudiced or choose to compromise with ulterior motives” vaguely insulting.
Thanks to everybody who made recommendations! It looks like I’m going to be splurging a little on books in the near future.
Tara, remember two words: fraudulent victims.
When the Arabs went to war in 1949 because Israel became a recognized sovereign state, all the Jews in Arab/Muslim lands were threatened, kicked out, and robbed. They left, in the main, for Israel. On the other hand, the Arabs/Muslims in Israel were not kicked out, were not threatened, and were not robbed. They very well, if Muslim Brotherhood is anything, should have had a place to go, considering the huge amount of land and supposed brothers they had. But those brothers refused to accept them; they were better as pawns, as fraudulent victims.
Fraudulent victims have continued. Imagine if it happened to you. You try and help someone and that person claims you harmed them. And pretty much all your “friends,” against the evidence, believe and support the slander. And even some of your own family members do the same.
Waitforit: “When the Arabs went to war in 1949 because Israel became a recognized sovereign state, all the Jews in Arab/Muslim lands were threatened, kicked out, and robbed. They left, in the main, for Israel.”
Getting somewhat off topic now; but, this is why I sort of support, in an offhand way, “the right to return.”
Every time, I hear someone mention that Palestinians have the right to return to land they lost, I say “sure when other nations compensate those kicked out and who had to find shelter in Israel; That’s when I’ll support Palestinians’ right to land they lost. The right to return MUST be a 2-way street.”
I’m usually met with silence or a rather stunned “wow, I didn’t know that.”
Truthfully, I’ve never done the math; but, I’d be willing to wager that the land/homes lost by Jews in Arab lands will greatly exceed the land/homes lost by Palestinians in Israel.
I’d further wager no one has really done the math because, as you say, the one group has moved on building a future for their children while the other group is being used by grievance peddlers and hasn’t moved on.
“From Time Immemorial” is a rather controversial book. It is denounced by anti-Zionists as “propaganda” and it is certainly a brief for one side. However it is rigorously sourced and footnoted so if you want to challenge it honestly you need to bring more than rhetoric. A lot of the information is not unfamiliar to those who know the history but it is surprising to others who assume the narrative that a bunch of Jews just landed in Palestine after the Holocaust and pushed the natives out.
It also has a few zingers like a photocopy of a letter from the Mufti to his pal Himmler urging him to put Jewish children, who some people were attempting to ransom out of Europe, under “active control” i. e. the death camps. The Mufti was the most prominent Palestinian leader of the 20th century with the *possible* exception of Arafat. He was also a close ally of the Nazis during WWII.
One more reason to love, er, lust this woman.
I tweeted out a congrats to her, and *immediately* got a tweet in reply scolding me for supporting someone who chose supporting Palestinian oppressors over an agency that feeds children. So. You know. There’s always that.
If I didn’t already own a Sodastream I’d buy one immediately.
By the way, I highly recommend them!
“I do want to know exactly what’s going on, but I’d rather not have to rely on Wikipedia for the basic information..”
Tara — you are wise beyond the ways of most Men.
<>
CV: thanks for the laughs! :.)
“Here’s an fascinating look at some of the hand-wringing and self-righteous accusations (“blood bubbles”?!?!) regarding SodaStream that apparently flow freely in the kitchens and parties of liberal enclaves like Brooklyn. The comments section is worth reading (a lot of it surprisingly insightful):
(evidently, my old-fashioned quoting using “<" marks is not understood by html code)
waitforit
“On the other hand, the Arabs/Muslims in Israel were not kicked out, were not threatened, and were not robbed.”
I beg to differ.
IIRC, it was widely known that any Arab wishing to stay behind was being threatened by his imam.
1) Such an Arab was then considered a Zionist collaborator, or some such…
2) The imams, to a man, expected the Ummah to prevail, probably in an orgy of bullets…
3) And they figured that the Jewish economy would implode without Arab labor to exploit, or some such…
There are simply no end of Arabs who claim that they fled explicitly because they were instructed/ ordered to do so by their imam. Yes, they go motivated.
Those Israeli Arab citizens (existing outside the grasp of Hamas and the PLO/PLA) were originally considered traitors to the cause, lest we forget.
You’ll note just how far down the scale their interests remain in all of the agitprop. Indeed, the stay-behinds are a flaming embarrassment to the agitation crowd. They are so difficult to explain — while maintaining the narrative.
Have you noticed how often they simply fail to exist?
This omission is twice as empty in all Arab media.
Truthfully, I’ve never done the math; but, I’d be willing to wager that the land/homes lost by Jews in Arab lands will greatly exceed the land/homes lost by Palestinians in Israel.
Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, more than 200,000 found refuge in Europe and North America while 586,000 were resettled in Israel – at great expense to the Israeli government, and without any compensation from the Arab governments who had confiscated their possessions.
and
The UN even defines Palestinian refugees differently than every other refugee population, setting distinctions that have allowed their numbers to grow exponentially so that nearly 5 million are now considered refugees despite the fact that the number estimated to have fled their homes is only approximately 400-700,000.
I ♥ my Sodasteam.
London Trader:
Experiences will vary. I am Jewish and Russian, now American, which is not relevant other than my exposure to Jewish communities. The reformed (i.e. left-wing) Jews, whether by conviction or consensus, follow the party line. The conservatives and orthodox have a different predisposition and allegiance which is more favorable to the Israeli perspective. They each have motives for their position. Some are more legitimate than others.
Anyway, as with all things, there is rarely an occasion to make general judgments. It is more common to present anecdotal evidence and misrepresent or manufacture a consensus. My statement is not evidence of a general character (e.g. Dershowitz is an exception), but a predisposition based on political alliances.
re: political alliances
Let me offer another example. God’s moral philosophy dictates that Jews be fruitful and multiply. In fact, that is the prime directive given by God to people, which is accompanied by a moral philosophy to guide our proper development.
Genesis describes the evolution of human life as follows:
Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul.
This describes human evolution if not from conception, then from the time that He breathes the soul of life into man. This is not from birth. It is not from an arbitrary moment or range of viability. The Jew, therefore, should be pro-life. Every Jew in the Democrat party has disqualified themselves by supporting or tolerating the violation of this basic tenet of our faith (described as an unalienable right in our nation’s charter) and the corollary commandment to not murder.
So, sometimes we can make general pronouncements, while other times it is exceptional or dispositional. The treatment of Israel is the latter, but individual interests are moderated by the consensus which requires compromise. Secular Jews, which is predominantly the character of left-wing Jews, have compromised on a number of issues, including the “human or civil rights” agenda which selectively isolates Israel among all nations.
Whenever I hear “right of return” to Palestine, I wonder why no one is clamoring for Jordan to let the Palestinians back in. After all, 80% or of the area created by the Palestinian Mandate is now part of Jordan. And then I remember one important fact: no Jews to speak of in Jordan.
n.n – I agree with all that you say in your last two posts regarding left wing/secular Jews and there support for the “human or civil rights agenda” its just that my experience is that in the main these same people will still be supportive of Israel.
As you mention anecdotes, a good friend of mine who is a member of a reform synagogue and as left wing as they come (in the last political conversation we had she expressed strong support for the recall Walker movement) but she almost didn’t vote for Obama in the last election over his position on Israel. While that policy wasn’t quite enough to overcome her positive views on all of his other agenda items there is no way that she can be described as other than strongly supportive of Israel.
I suspect that Scarlett falls into the same camp.
*their
Those without wikipedia to rely upon, what kind of authority would they rely upon?
That authority is in itself flawed as a concept or foundation.
From what I’ve seen, she’s as reliably leftist as any other Hollywood minion, this is just an aberration.
Mind you, I’d love to see it as a crack in the wall that leads her to enlightenment.
Test – As I said to n.n. I don’t believe it is a either a crack in the wall or an aberration. Her decision is perfectly in keeping with her background.
I do question why people change their minds on Scarlet here because of a news article. What are they going to do if Scarlet rejects Sodastream too?
It’s not like her Hollywood handlers and masters need that revenue stream absolutely.
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A hundred thousand men just got elbowed in the stomach.
“What? I’m just saying that you’ve got to respect someone for standing up for Israel, honey.”
Here’s an fascinating look at some of the hand-wringing and self-righteous accusations (“blood bubbles”?!?!) regarding SodaStream that apparently flow freely in the kitchens and parties of liberal enclaves like Brooklyn. The comments section is worth reading (a lot of it surprisingly insightful):
http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/01/sodastream-guilt-free-seltzer-or-blood-bubbles.html
I was neutral on SodaStream before the Scarlett J. flap, and can take or leave most soft drinks, but all this makes me want to run out to Bed Bath and Beyond and buy one.
Atta girl! This one tiny heartening story made my whole day.
And who knew about SodaStream? I’m going to order one.
As I noted on Instapundit:
“Oxfam’s fundraising bikini calendar just won’t be the same.”
And no, I don’t feel like responding to this seriously. Whether Ms. Johansson’s action was “good” or not depends upon why she did it. She can say one thing, believe something else, and we’ll never know the difference.
I don’t feel like wasting time trying to divine her intent.
…but maybe after five years of good behavior, I’ll take her for a review.
Fantastic — thank you, Scarlett.
And to think she was dating Sean Penn just a few years ago.
Scarlett’s mother is Jewish and she self identifies as Jewish so maybe not such a surprising decision, but welcome nonetheless.
As I write, guzzling down SodaStream’s seltzer water, I had no idea I was being politically incorrect.
It makes me want to take another swig.
%%%
The shear insanity of expecting peace while crossing up peaceful private enterprise …
I don’t hardly know what to type.
%%%%
In the longer run, this kind of logic means the death of the Ummah. For it is now sustained (entirely) on mining liquids (oil and gas) that must surely deplete.
As Nauru can testify: that day does come.
“Nauru boasted the highest per-capita income enjoyed by any sovereign state in the world during the late 1960s and early 1970s” Wiki
Alas, no more.
The Ummah will never be able to compete with India, China, and (even) Africa. The cultural tariff (Muslim hatred and violence) will be too great.
Their only shot is to buddy up with Israel and gain a portal to the real world.
As Egyptian tourism shows, Islamic hatred can even screw up a sure bet.
I hope it’s okay to ask this here… Does anybody here have suggestions for basic resources on the whole Israel-Palestine conflict? I almost want to say it’s for a friend, but no, it’s for me. I’ve only been interested in politics for a few years, and this is one of the issues that has thus far evaded my grasp; every article I’ve read on the subject requires the reader to have a substantial knowledge base already in place, so I only have bits and pieces of the overall picture.
I do want to know exactly what’s going on, but I’d rather not have to rely on Wikipedia for the basic information… so can anybody here point me toward a good summary of the subject?
I have a newfound respect for Johansson.
London Trader:
It’s surprising. A lot of left-wing Jews, which is the majority of Jews, both in Israel and around the world, are notoriously prejudiced or choose to compromise with ulterior motives, and will even lead the defamation of Israel.
That’s a great question, Tara. And it’s an astute recognition to mistrust Wikipedia, especially on Israel.
Abba Eban comes to mind. Here are his books:
Voice of Israel. 1957.
The tide of nationalism. 1959.
My people: the story of the Jews. 1968.
My country; the story of modern Israel.
Abba Eban: an autobiography. 1977.
The new diplomacy
Heritage : civilization and the Jews. 1984.
Personal witness : Israel through my eyes. 1992.
Diplomacy for a new century. 1998.
Tara:
Try this one, by the liberal attorney Alan Dershowitz. I haven’t read it, but I’ve heard it’s pretty good.
Israel: A History, by Martin Gilbert, an Oxford historian, is also well regarded.
http://www.amazon.com/From-Time-Immemorial-Arab-Jewish-Palestine/dp/0963624202
From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters for a good and comprehensive account. It is a bruising read, however, in my opinion.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/11/spencer-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-in-brief/
An article by the intrepid Robert Spencer.
If I didn’t already own a very fine sodastream, I’d buy one.
Just two questions:
1. How many jobs, real jobs – not handouts, did Oxfam create for the rank and file Palestinians on the West Bank?
2. How many real jobs did SodaStream create?
I think she has put her mouth and her mind towards that which truly matters. kudos for her!
http://www.amazon.com/Jihad-West-Muslim-Conquests-Centuries/dp/1573922471/ref=pd_sim_b_3
and anything by Bernard Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Jihad-West-Muslim-Conquests-Centuries/dp/1573922471/ref=pd_sim_b_3
n.n. That is not my experience. While Jews are in the main left wing they are mainly supportive of Israel with a few notable exceptions. BTW I’m Jewish and English which surprised quite a few people when I first moved to the US.
To be honest I found your comment “are notoriously prejudiced or choose to compromise with ulterior motives” vaguely insulting.
Thanks to everybody who made recommendations! It looks like I’m going to be splurging a little on books in the near future.
Tara, remember two words: fraudulent victims.
When the Arabs went to war in 1949 because Israel became a recognized sovereign state, all the Jews in Arab/Muslim lands were threatened, kicked out, and robbed. They left, in the main, for Israel. On the other hand, the Arabs/Muslims in Israel were not kicked out, were not threatened, and were not robbed. They very well, if Muslim Brotherhood is anything, should have had a place to go, considering the huge amount of land and supposed brothers they had. But those brothers refused to accept them; they were better as pawns, as fraudulent victims.
Fraudulent victims have continued. Imagine if it happened to you. You try and help someone and that person claims you harmed them. And pretty much all your “friends,” against the evidence, believe and support the slander. And even some of your own family members do the same.
Waitforit: “When the Arabs went to war in 1949 because Israel became a recognized sovereign state, all the Jews in Arab/Muslim lands were threatened, kicked out, and robbed. They left, in the main, for Israel.”
Getting somewhat off topic now; but, this is why I sort of support, in an offhand way, “the right to return.”
Every time, I hear someone mention that Palestinians have the right to return to land they lost, I say “sure when other nations compensate those kicked out and who had to find shelter in Israel; That’s when I’ll support Palestinians’ right to land they lost. The right to return MUST be a 2-way street.”
I’m usually met with silence or a rather stunned “wow, I didn’t know that.”
Truthfully, I’ve never done the math; but, I’d be willing to wager that the land/homes lost by Jews in Arab lands will greatly exceed the land/homes lost by Palestinians in Israel.
I’d further wager no one has really done the math because, as you say, the one group has moved on building a future for their children while the other group is being used by grievance peddlers and hasn’t moved on.
“From Time Immemorial” is a rather controversial book. It is denounced by anti-Zionists as “propaganda” and it is certainly a brief for one side. However it is rigorously sourced and footnoted so if you want to challenge it honestly you need to bring more than rhetoric. A lot of the information is not unfamiliar to those who know the history but it is surprising to others who assume the narrative that a bunch of Jews just landed in Palestine after the Holocaust and pushed the natives out.
It also has a few zingers like a photocopy of a letter from the Mufti to his pal Himmler urging him to put Jewish children, who some people were attempting to ransom out of Europe, under “active control” i. e. the death camps. The Mufti was the most prominent Palestinian leader of the 20th century with the *possible* exception of Arafat. He was also a close ally of the Nazis during WWII.
One more reason to love, er, lust this woman.
I tweeted out a congrats to her, and *immediately* got a tweet in reply scolding me for supporting someone who chose supporting Palestinian oppressors over an agency that feeds children. So. You know. There’s always that.
If I didn’t already own a Sodastream I’d buy one immediately.
By the way, I highly recommend them!
“I do want to know exactly what’s going on, but I’d rather not have to rely on Wikipedia for the basic information..”
Tara — you are wise beyond the ways of most Men.
<>
CV: thanks for the laughs! :.)
“Here’s an fascinating look at some of the hand-wringing and self-righteous accusations (“blood bubbles”?!?!) regarding SodaStream that apparently flow freely in the kitchens and parties of liberal enclaves like Brooklyn. The comments section is worth reading (a lot of it surprisingly insightful):
“http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/01/sodastream-guilt-free-seltzer-or-blood-bubbles.html ”
CV: thanks for the laughs! :.)
(evidently, my old-fashioned quoting using “<" marks is not understood by html code)
waitforit
“On the other hand, the Arabs/Muslims in Israel were not kicked out, were not threatened, and were not robbed.”
I beg to differ.
IIRC, it was widely known that any Arab wishing to stay behind was being threatened by his imam.
1) Such an Arab was then considered a Zionist collaborator, or some such…
2) The imams, to a man, expected the Ummah to prevail, probably in an orgy of bullets…
3) And they figured that the Jewish economy would implode without Arab labor to exploit, or some such…
There are simply no end of Arabs who claim that they fled explicitly because they were instructed/ ordered to do so by their imam. Yes, they go motivated.
Those Israeli Arab citizens (existing outside the grasp of Hamas and the PLO/PLA) were originally considered traitors to the cause, lest we forget.
You’ll note just how far down the scale their interests remain in all of the agitprop. Indeed, the stay-behinds are a flaming embarrassment to the agitation crowd. They are so difficult to explain — while maintaining the narrative.
Have you noticed how often they simply fail to exist?
This omission is twice as empty in all Arab media.
Truthfully, I’ve never done the math; but, I’d be willing to wager that the land/homes lost by Jews in Arab lands will greatly exceed the land/homes lost by Palestinians in Israel.
You are correct, sir.
From the Jewish Virtual Library,
and
I ♥ my Sodasteam.
London Trader:
Experiences will vary. I am Jewish and Russian, now American, which is not relevant other than my exposure to Jewish communities. The reformed (i.e. left-wing) Jews, whether by conviction or consensus, follow the party line. The conservatives and orthodox have a different predisposition and allegiance which is more favorable to the Israeli perspective. They each have motives for their position. Some are more legitimate than others.
Anyway, as with all things, there is rarely an occasion to make general judgments. It is more common to present anecdotal evidence and misrepresent or manufacture a consensus. My statement is not evidence of a general character (e.g. Dershowitz is an exception), but a predisposition based on political alliances.
re: political alliances
Let me offer another example. God’s moral philosophy dictates that Jews be fruitful and multiply. In fact, that is the prime directive given by God to people, which is accompanied by a moral philosophy to guide our proper development.
Genesis describes the evolution of human life as follows:
Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul.
This describes human evolution if not from conception, then from the time that He breathes the soul of life into man. This is not from birth. It is not from an arbitrary moment or range of viability. The Jew, therefore, should be pro-life. Every Jew in the Democrat party has disqualified themselves by supporting or tolerating the violation of this basic tenet of our faith (described as an unalienable right in our nation’s charter) and the corollary commandment to not murder.
So, sometimes we can make general pronouncements, while other times it is exceptional or dispositional. The treatment of Israel is the latter, but individual interests are moderated by the consensus which requires compromise. Secular Jews, which is predominantly the character of left-wing Jews, have compromised on a number of issues, including the “human or civil rights” agenda which selectively isolates Israel among all nations.
Whenever I hear “right of return” to Palestine, I wonder why no one is clamoring for Jordan to let the Palestinians back in. After all, 80% or of the area created by the Palestinian Mandate is now part of Jordan. And then I remember one important fact: no Jews to speak of in Jordan.
n.n – I agree with all that you say in your last two posts regarding left wing/secular Jews and there support for the “human or civil rights agenda” its just that my experience is that in the main these same people will still be supportive of Israel.
As you mention anecdotes, a good friend of mine who is a member of a reform synagogue and as left wing as they come (in the last political conversation we had she expressed strong support for the recall Walker movement) but she almost didn’t vote for Obama in the last election over his position on Israel. While that policy wasn’t quite enough to overcome her positive views on all of his other agenda items there is no way that she can be described as other than strongly supportive of Israel.
I suspect that Scarlett falls into the same camp.
*their
Those without wikipedia to rely upon, what kind of authority would they rely upon?
That authority is in itself flawed as a concept or foundation.
From what I’ve seen, she’s as reliably leftist as any other Hollywood minion, this is just an aberration.
Mind you, I’d love to see it as a crack in the wall that leads her to enlightenment.
Test – As I said to n.n. I don’t believe it is a either a crack in the wall or an aberration. Her decision is perfectly in keeping with her background.
I do question why people change their minds on Scarlet here because of a news article. What are they going to do if Scarlet rejects Sodastream too?
It’s not like her Hollywood handlers and masters need that revenue stream absolutely.