How to get along with the opposite sex
Women, pay attention.
And men, listen up.
It’s all pretty tongue-in-cheek, but there are a few kernels of wisdom there. And we all need all the help we can get.
This made me laugh (and it’s certainly not describing me; oh no, couldn’t possibly be!):
If you ask a woman a question, don’t interrupt her response by saying, as you impatiently tap your fingertips on the nearest table, “Get to the point.” The point you don’t get is that our intricate narratives ”” interlaced as they are with our multi-layered interpretations, embroidered with the richness of our subtle observations, and enhanced by our exquisite cascades of details that might well have entirely escaped your notice, and without which your understanding of life would be the poorer ”” are what an answer is to us. As Walter Cronkite used to say, “And that’s the way it is.”
Maybe there can be a private organization built that consists of nothing but individuals who know how to communicate. Akin to ambassadors and those who escorted virgins around in the presence of unattached males.
America, for one reason or another, has profited from setting man against woman, white against black, and stupid against smart, peasant against aristo.
Can you get to the point?
F. When a woman asks you a question, note that “fine” or “good” or “OK” are not our idea of an answer. To a woman, any monosyllabic resply is an insult, an affront, a casus belli (“cause of war” for those of you who slept through Caesar’s conquest of Gaul).
G. Put some verbal meat on those bones. We yearn for data and details. Who was in the room? What were they wearing? Who said what? In what tone of voice? What was the reaction of the others? Did anyone seem angry? Take umbrage? Did long-simmering interpersonal antipathies rise to the surface and explode? If so, what happened next?
often on the internet people are deprived automatically of the body language data that I’ve come to cherish. Much can be sifted from their word play, but only if there is a full body of tracks to analyze. One liners are insufficient for analysis.
So when I looking for info, body language is a valuable resource which is why videos are valuable resources.
Women may engage in “people watching” but males who are somehow connected to security functions must learn similar skills.
yeah… well..
i was once sitting there, and after a long polite while listening to a lady… i said “is there a point to this?”… she said. oh no… there is no point, i just thought it was my turn…
so i asked… “you mean we sat her listening to a conversation for 15 minutes politely that would never wrap up, and conclude (until we were impolite)?”..
oh, the incredible level of waste, deflection, dissimulation, and so on. there is a reason most dont want to work in anything that actually measures without some form of gaming the measure!!!!!!!!!!
(note i said most… not all… the few who DO, often do great… but alas, they are swamped by the affirmative action buy your vote for hating your mate crowd)
if they have been through “studies” courses, they are basically too toxic.. oh yeah… you can take the approach and have a “mineke marriage”… where 50% of those who come in dont need a repair.. (distracted from the 50% of broken bodies on a last chance power drive)
the sad part is that you can actually watch a quarter million go down the tubes as one of those people take the meeting and 30 people sit around for no real point… (especially since the same group wants everyone to happily agree on the wrong answer, rather than fight to find the right one!)
but don’t worry, its self fixing
they are exterminating themselves in record numbers and will manage to no longer put such into the gene pool…
alanstorm: no.
I’d always thought of men as digital — 1/0, on/off, yes/no — and women as analog — one long varying wave-length. A man’s answer would never be more complex than one decimal point. A woman’s answer never simpler than a
Navier-Stokes equation. All things considered, things seem to work out just fine.
For some reason, your answer seems devoid of an intricate narrative interlaced with your multi-layered interpretations, embroidered with the richness of your subtle observations, and enhanced by your exquisite cascades of details.
I feel cheated. Can we talk about my feelings now?
TRILLION DOLLAR BONUS TIP (PRICELESS, REALLY) FOR MEN WHO’VE READ THIS FAR: Ask a woman what she enjoys the most, even if you’ve been with her for decades, what she really enjoys, or what she’s always wanted to try. Many women won’t volunteer this precious intelligence, but if a man takes a moment to ask this simple question, the answer can go a long way to turning what could be a mundane experience into an unforgettably exquisite voyage to the windswept oceans and the highest mountains of star-filled galaxies neither the woman nor you has ever visited in your entire lives.
Pick up Artists actually led me to that line of reasoning, when they said that a good conversation starter upper is asking a woman “If you could only have one thing in life to be happy, what would it be?”
Of course PUAs may just be interested in sex, but I actually gave some serious research time to figuring out what conversation topics interest men and women. I practiced some of my newly developed skills with not just one, but 3 sets of Jehovah’s witnesses who each separately came to my door step in the course of 2-6 months. Back when I was younger, I wouldn’t have been able to hold a conversation with them about religion and faith, and would have felt uncomfortable enough with strangers that I would have kept talking to them outside the door instead of inviting them in.
Jehovah’s witnesses have very subtle security arrangements. Not bodyguards, but they do have a caravan service that often shuttles hem to neighborhoods and then calls them to check up on their progress. They also are either groups of all males, or a wife/husband team or a woman/woman team. Always in a team, two people, for safety. And if they branch out into a neighborhood from one car, they check up on each other’s status. I approve of such. However, their security arrangements are low threshold compared to what my expectations of “secure” would be. There was also a Mormon’s group that I forgot to mention. We walked about their prophet, the Church of St. Latte rDay Saints, and Jesus Christ in 20 AD and what made the Bible true or false vis a vis historical evidence. Some of the things I said about Jesus Christ bringing peace to the tribal crazies of the area, seemed to be something they had never heard before.
It doesn’t matter who I meet. If I can find something they are passionate about, it makes for a good experience and conversation. People may be mundane and uninteresting at first, but they will light up when talking about their favorite stuff. Some people don’t have hobbies, so have nothing to talk about, in which case I present them with my stream of consciousness talent and talk endlessly about what I’m interested in.
I also like to say that many people on the internet are illiterate since they can’t read anything longer than two paragraphs. They do the tl;dr (too long, didn’t read) behavior.
Maybe that’s a male vice eh?
alanstorm: no.
Neo, I believe the response you’re looking for is a rolled-up newspaper across the nose coupled with a firm “No!”.
Jim Croce, one of the last to be allowed to write things which were forbidden later… (and were also in existence in movies before this song)
you could just imagine him talking to someone he knew when younger (and liberated) and is now older (or as the players say, “reached their expiration date’)…
If you get to feelin’ all alone
When your good time friends have all got up and gone
Don’t come knockin’ around my door
Because I’ve heard your lines before
And there ain’t gonna be a next time this time
‘Cause woman startin’ right now
I’m gonna forget you name and your pretty face, girl
And write you off as a bad mistake
You know that some women, they are lovers
And some just got no sense
But a woman like you oughta be ashamed
Of the things that you do to men
And there ain’t gonna be a next time this time
‘Cause woman startin’ right now
I’m gonna forget you name and your pretty face, girl
And write you off as a complete disgrace
You know that some women they are liars
And some just got no sense
But a woman like you oughta be ashamed
Of the things that you do to men
Yeah a woman like you oughta be ashamed
Of the things that you do to men
oh. and that trillion dollar tip is bs..
she seldom knows waht she wants, and as soon as she might get it, she changes her mind, so she can start on aquiring something else… never satisfied… a deep unfillable hole, that can never be happy…
i will let that famous nurse clue you in on what women in the past thought..
“Women have no sympathy… And my experience of women is almost as large as Europe. And it is so intimate too. Women crave for being loved, not for loving. They scream at you for sympathy all day long, they are incapable of giving you any in return for they cannot remember your affairs long enough to do so.” — Florence Nightingale
“Women are the creatures of an organized tyranny of men, as the workers are the creatures of an organized tyranny of idlers.” — Eleanor Marx, The Woman Question
Women, who are much more comfortable with emotion, have a tendency to create or even enjoy relationship drama. Men get burnt out on that.
I don’t think that’s quite true. In the sense of Hollywood drama, yes males can get very very sick of it. Women too, if they are conservatives and can’t just “dump out the brain” when watching.
It’s not a matter of being comfortable with emotion, it’s about what kind of emotion you are feeling. For a male, feeling embarassed, for the guy on the screen groveling or getting socially crucified, is very uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable. Especially since you have to “sit there” and take it. You can’t fight. YOu can’t even talk back. The TV station is the one telling you what to do and what to feel. Women watch soaps explicitly for that kind of narration. Men are less interested in such things.
But there is something males can like when it comes to drama: the exemplification of pride and virtues like courage and valor.
I’ve read several Japanese VNs that were primarily about the romantic relationship between the main protagonist and the female love interest. Tsukihime and G Senjou no Mao are two good examples. The Japanese include romance (or their English transliteration which they say “Roman” in katakana) in a lot of different mediums, including war drama and life and death drama. I never found them boring and too much to take. Because it wasn’t about social embarassment and it wasn’t about catering to social perceptions. These relationships required a lot of character strength from the main protagonists, shown in such a way that males could feel proud knowing the main protagonist and inspired to do similar things of worth. The story of the knight fighting the dragon for the princess, is not a story designed to make princesses feel better about themselves, but to make men feel better about themselves. If you failed, you were dead. Case closed, no social embarassment, no buying flowers to apologize. If you succeeded, no one could say you were faking it. Except the cowards that stayed back at home, of course.
The guy in G Senjou was a pretty pathetic sack of nothingness, really. He had potential, but for most of the story he was like the jerks you knew at college, always complaining and justifying themselves. Then he grew up and learned to take responsibility, like a man. Then things changed.
If I had never been exposed to the japanese viewpoint, I myself would have thought that it was impossible to make an emotional drama about relationships appeal to males: especially young males. But that’s a moot point.
The Japanese have created material for male demographics that females don’t like. They have also created female material that males either don’t like or are less interested in. This kind of specialization is the result of the free market. Why then doesn’t Hollywood and American tv do something similar with drama? Because they’re a monopoly, which is the opposite of a free market.
So, to be fair, the advice to women is: be more direct?
My experience is that men are problem solvers, so when you go on and on about a problem, their response is usually “you should do X” or “well, you should have done X.”
When a woman vents to another woman, the response is more about empathy, with response being along the lines of “That’s terrible! You should be upset.”
Etiquette was originally designed to smooth the relationship difficulties when men talked to women and vice a versa. This allowed people to feel secure, even if they didn’t understand what what was. They could spend their time practicing their smooth finish, rather than worry about things they could not change.
In the absence of etiquette designed to increase peace and prosperity, people must take fate into their own hands and truly understand human nature. Those that do not, will lack the tools to steer their way to a happy ending.
If America is about people making choices and choosing their own destiny, then ignorance is probably the rust on everybody’s steel.
I think I’d rather retire with the guys for a good discussion over cigars and brandy than try to live up to all that crap. Ain’t worth the trouble for an older guy, but might be useful for a younger guy wanting to learn how to bullshit women for fun and profit.
I’ve heard it said that the reason God gave women sex organs was so men would talk to them.
Nobody feels any pain
Tonight as I stand inside the rain
Everybody knows
That Baby’s got new clothes
But lately I see her ribbons and her bows
Have fallen from her curls
She takes just like a woman, yes she does
She makes love just like a woman, yes she does
And she aches just like a woman
But she breaks just like a little girl.
“the richness of our subtle observations, and enhanced by our exquisite cascades of details that might well have entirely escaped your notice, and without which your understanding of life would be the poorer – are what an answer is to us. ”
Yeah. Right. Now shut up and bring me another beer.
Huh?
Oh, uh, yeah, of course I was paying attention. Absolutely. Riveted. Speechless, in fact.
our intricate narratives – interlaced as they are with our multi-layered interpretations, embroidered with the richness of our subtle observations, and enhanced by our exquisite cascades of details that might well have entirely escaped your notice
Great way to see a guy do his smoked herring impression.
Men and women. Yes, God has a sense of humor.
“God, in His wisdom, when creating women,
made a promise to men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world.
And then He smiled and made the earth round.”
With respect to conversations and getting to the point, Southerners are fond of saying you have to heat up the pan before you throw the meat in.
Not to be too mystic, but the yin-yang concept is an accurate method of understanding reality. In general, women are yin and men are yang. Too much yin or too much yang leads to unrest and sometimes disaster.
Any man in a relationship who is not willing to listen attentively to his woman emote is a fool. And a fool to think he should offer answers or advice. Just listen in a sincere manner. Any woman in a relationship who is not aware that he’s only processing (at best) about 25% of your “intricate narratives – interlaced as they are with our multi-layered interpretations, embroidered with the richness of our subtle observations, and enhanced by our exquisite cascades of details” is an even bigger fool.
A stable, over time, yin-yang requires effort, patience, and tolerance. And a sense of humor never hurts.
I’ve always listened to my wife. Just the other day someone asked me what her favorite flower was. I said “Pilsbury All Purpose”. I should be getting out of the hospital by noon tomorrow. Hehehehee
Vanderleun’s observations without the beer, sound like this:
http://youtu.be/R2ygVuN4gf8
“”Too much yin or too much yang leads to unrest and sometimes disaster. “”
Parker
I think we can deduce our political problems are the result of such imbalance. Democrats are full of yin and its longing to legislate security. Republicans are mostly yang in understanding security only comes with a willingness to engage in risk which produces unequal results.
TLDR
“… intricate narratives – interlaced as they are with our multi-layered interpretations, embroidered with the richness of our subtle observations, and enhanced by our exquisite cascades of details …”
Of course, generally the narratives are not intricate, the observations are not subtle, and the cascades of details are merely rehashing the same sequence of event for the nth time.
Part of my profession is to listen to very complex problems, understand them and the person or organization that is experiencing the problem, determine what constitutes a solution, and help my client implement one of several solutions based on their priorities.
In my experience, when a woman launches into an “intricate narrative” she is not seeking a solution and merely wishes to express her frustration. In most cases she wants you listen to her until she winds down and then agree that there is no solution and commiserate with her fate. There are usually many obvious solutions to her problem, but each one requires her to make a decision which she views as more unpleasant than doing nothing.
The complex, multi-faceted method of communication is bearable if you don’t really have to listen, but just sit there.
However, if there is really a point, something which must be communicated in order that something important happen…we have a problem.
Demoncrats aren’t ying or yang, they’re unnatural. And people who know the metaphysics of Taoism know what I’m talking about.
As someone who researched how interrogators and spies work, it’s perfectly fine with me if women wish to vent their frustrations. I’m just cataloging a whole list of details and adding it to their profile while they talk. In negotiation and diplomacy, remaining silent in order to goad the other person into talking up a storm and exposing their secrets, is a time honored tradition.
Of course if you were seeking to solve their problem, that would be different. But if you were seeking information for your own self benefit and the benefit of your alliance members, then it’s different.
Nobody knows what piece of information will aid in fighting the Left. Nobody knows what piece of information will herald an existential threat in the future. Most people sit in their bubble and are content with being fed info regurgitated from the bowels of the gatekeepers of elitist education. And look where that has brought a mighty nation called America. Does it look good yet?
uncleFred says, “There are usually many obvious solutions to her problem, but each one requires her to make a decision which she views as more unpleasant than doing nothing.”
What a great description of the Federal government’s lack of ability to solve problems. Or actually, anyone’s lack of ability to solve their problems. Another bit of wisdom from uncleFred.
Okay Jewel, we surrender. Where do we send the reparations ?
Did it ever occur to anyone that human civilization is a result of nagging wives?
Ladies,
If you want us to give you open-ended answers, you need to start asking open-ended questions. Don’t expect open-ended answers to closed-ended questions.
Conversely, when we ask you a closed-ended question, please don’t provide us with a open-ended answer.
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