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RIP Virginia Giuffre — 12 Comments

  1. I see Giuffre as a victim of Epstein and Maxwell, and probably of various people before that, as well as a dysfunctional upbringing. She alleged having been sexually abused as a young child, then living for a while on the streets and being abused there, then falling in with one older man who sexually abused her and then Epstein, all while underage. I don’t doubt that this history is mostly or substantially true: she was damaged and vulnerable early on.
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    Epstein used her and Maxwell used her. She was willing to be used.
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    As far as I’m aware, her father is still alive and has answered inquiries now and again. The last account I saw in a news source wherein he supposedly offered his account of what he thought and observed ca. 1999 made him sound weirdly detached and clueless about the life of his adolescent daughter.
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    I would be very skeptical of accusations against him or claims that she ever lived on the streets. See her most recent nonsense claims about her injuries in a motor vehicle accident.
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    The only thing she needed to do to ‘escape’ Epstein was to stop showing up for work. Send them a letter of resignation by mail and get a job in food service or retail like every other 19 year old youth in America.
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    Please note, Prince Andrew is a man of low character, but that in and of itself is neither illegal nor tortious. Taking her own account at face value, she was of legal age in every jurisdiction where they had a sexual encounter at the time those encounters occurred. She was a wage employee of Epstein whose ‘other-duties-as-assigned’ included canoodling with his clientele. Since there was no fee-for-service arrangement between Andrew and her, or between Andrew and Epstein (that anyone knows about), it would be a stretch to charge any of them with prostitution offenses (which, in any case, would have been time-barred by the time she made her accusations). Her lawyers managed to carve an eight-figure sum of money out of the royal family for her three uncoerced sexual encounters.
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    It’s a reasonable wager her husband had custody of the children because she’s a head case troublesome enough that the biases of family courts were in her case cancelled out. (The mother stripped of custody in my social circle had seen one child placed in temporary foster care at birth as it had cocaine in its system, had had multiple tours through rehab programs, and had been grassed up for public drunkenness by restaurant patrons near her home who were perturbed that she had her two children in tow).
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  2. The big question is did Prince Andrew think she was at least 18? The picture with him shows her as mature. She said she was 17.
    That does not negate the fact she was basically trafficked.

  3. The age of consent in London is 16. In New York, it is 17. IIRC, it is 18 in New Mexico, but there are a number of qualifications to that.

  4. SHIREHOME:

    I’ve never heard of any evidence independent of her saying so that Andrew had anything to do with her, sexually.

  5. I thought I’d read that her vehicle accident had precipitated declining kidney function?

    With this inevitable loss pending soon, she effectively gave in and therefore, with her mood problems, gave up instead of fighting her fate.

  6. I am never so sure people are willing to be abused, maybe more just expecting they will be due to past experiences.
    She had a terrible life living with monsters.

  7. She was a longtime prostitute who ruined many lives. Before that I don’t know…

    Well past the ‘Tanner Stages‘ of puberty before she met Epstein and Maxwell…

    Looks like all her lying finally caught up with her…

  8. Maxwell and Epstein were her employers. There is insufficient reason for referring to her father as a ‘monster’.
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    She wasn’t a ‘long time prostitute’. She worked for Epstein for about three years as a general service employee. Not sure whose life she is supposed to have ‘ruined’. She’s certainly done injury to Andrew and to Alan Dershowitz, but I doubt you could say either man has been ‘ruined’.

  9. I’ve never heard of any evidence independent of her saying so that Andrew had anything to do with her, sexually.
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    The television interview Andrew gave in 2019 was notable for several things. One was that he neither presented nor referred to documentary evidence (court circulars, office diaries, pay stubs of his entourage &c) which would have demonstrated he was elsewhere during those times she identified the two as having encounters. Another was his admission that he’d hired technicians to assess the photograph of the three of them she had offered as evidence of their acquaintanceship and they had not been able to demonstrate that the photograph had been faked. A third was the accounts he offered to demonstrate he could not have been where she said they had been. Those accounts were not credible. There’s a reason his mother put him on ice after that performance.
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    (Not buying her yarns in re Dershowitz).

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