It was bad before, but now it’s much worse: the forensics on the Bibas family reveal …
… that Ariel and Kfir were brutally murdered.
And that the body of the woman that Hamas so kindly returned is not their mother Shiri Bibas, but is instead some unknown person.
The military informs the Bibas family that the bodies of Ariel and Kfir Bibas have been identified after their remains were given to Israel by Hamas on Thursday.
However, the third body at the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute was not that of their mother, Shiri Bibas, says the Israel Defense Forces. Specialists at Abu Kabir were not able to identify the body.
The authorities, using forensic evidence and intelligence, assess that the two young boys were ‘”brutally murdered” by terrorists in November 2023, says the IDF. Ariel was 4-years-old and Kfir was 10-months-old when they were murdered.
“This is a very serious violation by the Hamas terrorist organization, which is required by the agreement to return four dead hostages,” says the IDF. “We demand that Hamas return Shiri home along with all of our hostages.”
Did Hamas actually believe it could get away with this? I guess they did – they’ve gotten away with so much so far. I suppose they think that their supporters, who believe the Israelis are devils, will just discount everything Israel says as being a lie.
This deception may have serious repercussions, although I don’t know exactly what I mean by “serious.” Hamas still holds a great many living hostages, although we don’t know the exact number. But this is outrage piled on outrage.
And Hamas had to know that this would be discovered. No wonder they dragged their heels.
Who is this unknown poor woman whose body was returned? Where is Shiri Bibas? What torture for the family.
I actually think it’s possible that Hamas doesn’t know where she is. It’s also possible that they don’t wan’t to return her body because of some sort of evidence it would reveal that would make them look even worse than they already look. A third possibility is that she’s actually alive, and they lost track of her. If you recall, the story is that the family was kidnapped by a group called “Lords of the desert” and then transferred to a group known the Mujahideen Brigades of the Palestinian Mujahideen Movement.
An utter nightmare.
ADDENDUM:
The military identified Oded Lifshitz definitively before confirming the identities of Ariel and Kfir Bibas. The body that was posing as the remains of Shiri Bibas, in a coffin locked and sent with keys that did not match, was an anonymous woman. After arrival, she was dressed in items of clothing, but still not a match to the Bibas’ mother.
Experts attempted to perform DNA matches to the other Israeli hostages held in Gaza, finding no match.
Plus, a failed terrorist attack on buses.
I think I can guess why Hamas attempted to stop the hostage exchanges last week.
It’s interesting that Hamas is making no effort to put a better face on its atrocities and war crimes.
Call me a dreamer, but I don’t believe the world has infinite patience for this.
Ok, Huxley, you’re a dreamer.
Is there evidence that the children were murdered, and not killed in an airstrike?
Ray Van Dune:
Forensics.
Usually Israel doesn’t reveal grisly details unless the family allows it.
For some previous hostages, they have revealed things like they were shot in the back execution style, and how long ago.
Yes, I understand the nature of such evidence, thank you. What is unclear to me is if such evidence is claimed, which is implied by the title but not asserted in the text. So I am merely trying to understand the situation better.
Ray Van Dune:
I have never heard of the IDF making a claim like that without having some sort of evidence of it. They are ordinarily very very careful. They often don’t give details, though, in deference to families’ wishes.
In this case, I would not be surprised if slight details come out later, but I doubt there will be full details revealed.
You can see from the quote in the post that the IDF is giving a date for their murders, a month after abduction. That is either based on forensics or other intelligence.
The IDF reported that the 2 children were murdered in Nov, just one month after being kidnapped. They were not killed by an airstrike.
Anti-semitism cloaked as anti-Israel is on a planet-wide march, with claims these kids may have been killed by an (Israeli)airstrike being both indefensible and malicious.
I completely understand the idea of trying to get back such hostages. But at this point after factoring in Hamas track record. I would simply view any such returns as a chance opportunity. Ceasefires ALWAYS benefit Hamas and they usually violate the rules. Use this absurd insult to rally their countrymen and end this.
Otherwise it will be decades more of the charades . I am all for negotiating a peace in Ukraine. As they have little to no chance of a win unless their is a coup in Russia. But in my opinion the US government should be pushing the Israelis into destroying Hamas. And ending the decades of death on both sides
I know exactly how this sounds, but Israel should never take another prisoner in Gaza. It is never a good idea to negotiate with terrorists. No prisoners, no hostage exchange. Worst mistake Israel made after 1967 was not annexing Gaza and the West Bank. Those concessions bought Israel nothing but relentless terror and worldwide condemnation despite their forbearance. No more.
“Hamas still holds a great many living hostages, although we don’t know the exact number.”
I think at this point in time one has to assume that to be incorrect, as much as people may not wish it so, and proceed on the basis that any hostages are dead or will not be returned.
HAMAS has already violated the ceasefire with its most recent bomb attacks.
You don’t negotiate with a rabid dog.
There’s only one ‘cure’ for the rabid.
Kill every member of Hamas and Hezbollah will remain. Kill every member of Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran will remain. Kill every member of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian Mullahs and all of their minions and the Houthis will remain. Kill all of the above and The Muslim Brotherhood and Qatar will remain.
Islam itself is the problem and has been for 1400+ years… Islam’s monstrous history dwarfs every other would be competitor.
But hey, keep doing the same thing over again and again. Surely you must sooner or later get different results.
You gain leverage over a mortal enemy by attaching what for the enemy are consequences too intolerable to risk.
LordAzrael:
There is reason to strongly disagree with what you say about the number of living hostages. The reason has to do with what the newly-released hostages are saying.
Israeli intelligence also seems to have some capacity to know about some of them. At the moment they seem to think that at least 20-30 are alive.
There is also a famous Talmudic precept: “whoever saves a life, it is considered as if s/he saved an entire world.”
Geoffrey, you slightly understate the problem, You could kill every Muslim in the Islamic world and you’d still have the massive numbers of muslims inside every Western Country.
Related (cf. Cicero @ 8:57 pm):
“‘I Won’t Treat Them. I’ll Kill Them’;
“The Australian nurses who bragged about murdering Jews are not outliers. They were giving voice to a mania that has gone mainstream” (by Brendan O’Neill)—
https://www.thefp.com/p/israelophobia-goes-mainstream-down
H/T Powerline blog.
Compare and contrast to those sick purveyors of non-stop—MURDEROUS—hysteria and lies:
“Our Clueless Media, Chapter 12,186”—
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2025/02/our-clueless-media-chapter-12186.php
A commenter sought information regarding the possibility that the children were “killed in an [Israeli] airstrike.” As if that somehow excuses their kidnappers from some responsibility? The utter foolishness of such a query is troubling, indicating a degree of sympathy for the perpetrators of the massacre that they do not deserve, as well as an unseemly degree of credulity for islamic propaganda. If my partner and I rob a bank and my partner is shot and killed by a security guard, I am responsible for the death in criminal law; the security guard is not. See how easy it is to figure this all out?
Couple of big-time Imams have said that this has brought infinite shame on Islam.
Others have asked, rhetorically, if anybody would be really bothered if Palestine and the Gazans disappeared in smoke and explosions, to the last, living one. And, given said Imams’ comments, maybe not. Official public opinion may be shifting from rooting for them to… who?
Visions of Buchenwald. These monsters must pay.
Side note:
I have a monthly luncheon with some local friends. One is a 99 y/o man, Bill, who was with Patton when they liberated Ohrdruf and Buchenwald. His description of what he saw is seared into his memory like it happened yesterday. This is no different, just on a smaller scale.
one is reminded of the stories coming out about year zero, in Cambodia, that Chomsky, Herman and co, denied until it became too obvious,
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/by9cdwiqyx
https://x.com/NiohBerg/status/1892942607002521934
Poster “ray van dune” is representative of Joe Normie who gets his news from his phone. The Narrative states that all these hostages were killed by Israeli airstrikes with speculation that IDF troops personally strangled the corpses to make the Palestinians look even worse. And there is nothing anyone can do to change these “facts” now that they are out, because how could our phones lie to us?
Of course the strangulation deaths of the children brings up the question of just what happened to their mother.
now this is not unheard of, in the region sadly, the blood feud of the Maronites at Shatila, I’m not positive, but the Hama massacre might have gone to this lengths,
https://www.timesofisrael.com/2-jewish-israelis-palestinian-said-arrested-in-connection-with-botched-bus-bombings/ were these people among those released recently,
the so called Palestinians lied about the cause of death, because that’s what they do, some Israeli reporters, bought it, because why wouldn’t they, and not merely Haaretz
What indeed has become of Shiri Bibas? Is she alive and still captive? Is she deceased? Who knows?
this is the mindset of this group
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/which-palestinian-terror-group-took-the-bibas-family-hostage/ar-AA1zws0Z?ocid=BingNewsSerp
Israel keeps making the same mistake, allowing concern for a handful of possibly alive hostages to outweigh saving their nation. There is no solution to the rinse/repeat cycle of attacks, cease fires, exchanges of hundreds of Palestinians for a few Israeli hostages, momentary calm, the another war of attrition vs Israel.
Kill them all, every single Palestinian or you will never have peace. They are savages, barbarians, ruthless rabid animals.