What did Trump actually say about Zelensky starting the war?
I realize that Trump actually said a great many things about Ukraine and about Zelensky, some of them contradictory. That’s par for the course for Trump. I think I’ve made it clear that I find some of those things alarming, although I also realize that – as is usually the case with Trump – it’s important to see what actually ends up happening and judge him on that. But words are also important, and at the moment, they’re what we’re working with.
Yesterday I happened across a podcast on the subject by Bill O’Reilly. I’ve never been a fan, but I’ve watched a few of his YouTube videos since he’s been creating them, and the ones I’ve seen have often made some good points. I think that’s true of this one, too.
He reminded the audience of something about the MSM that’s almost all of us knew but sometimes don’t keep in mind, which is that they are out to portray Trump as evil. One of the many ways they have been doing this is to amplify the idea that, since Trump’s first term, he’s been in league with Russia and Putin. In fact, this was the basis for so much of the propaganda against him during his first term.
So if they can convince people of its truth, it has the effect of helping to validate those earlier charges in people’s minds.
Now, perhaps Trump is indeed Putin’s puppet, or however you want to put it. The Ukraine War negotiations, and Trump’s turning on Zelensky in the last few days, have seemed to fit right into that ready-made narrative as though tailor-made.
But it’s a good idea to keep in mind, when consuming the news, the hard-won knowledge that things are usually more complex than reported in the MSM and that the MSM hates Trump and wishes to destroy him, and that before you completely take their word for it – even about video clips of quotes that seem very clear (for example, “good people on both sides” in Charlottesville) – you must get the context. Unlike the highly articulate speech of DeSantis and Vance, Trump’s words are blunt instruments. They can be very effective – especially at getting attention – and they can be very ill-advised and alarming. But they are also vulnerable to propagandist distortion.
I don’t think any of us have the time or inclination to listen to all that Trump says or to read all he writes. But I think that, if you want to understand what Trump actually said about Zelensky “starting” the war, at least on the occasion that got a lot of coverage recently, you’d do well to watch this from O’Reilly. It’s only 12 minutes long (note, also, that O’Reilly doesn’t agree with Trump, but he does try to clarify what he said):
[NOTE: Tomorrow I’m planning to write a post about what Trump actually said about sanctions on Russia.]
Thanks so much for this piece – it is one of your best. I have shared it with family in the hopes that it will help us talk about these things instead of hurling insults. We shall see.
I admire you greatly – but I’m not a bot!
What must be kept in mind is that the war in Ukraine is Biden’s and the Dems’ war. They impeached Trump over it. The Ukrainian Vindman brothers, US Army officers, were instrumental in it. Biden essentially told the Ukrainian government that if they bribed him enough, he would kill the investigation into Zelenskyy. Which he did. Zelensky was corruptly elected, and has now called off elections. The Biden family made millions from him, and the US has reciprocated with billions in aid to Ukraine
Is the cost of supporting the war in the US national interests? Yes, Russia is much diminished militarily, in terms of manpower and conventual arms. But they still have maybe the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Ukraine was hurt much more, with much of the country devastated, and a generation of their men killed, wounded, or having fled that fate. Was that worth it? Many, esp on the Republican side, question it.
Then to Trump. He can, and does, talk to anyone. This includes Putin, but also the ChiCom and NORK leaders. Talking to them is the first step to making a deal with them. He has a similar personal charisma to what Bill Clinton (and my wife) have. They bask in the glow of his attention. He treats them with respect. And pulls off deals that no one else can.
BTW. Yesterday I was watching a confab with some sort of, I believe, tech leaders. He called out 6-8 maybe friends and leaders there. Two were Saudi, including their US Ambassador, a royal princess. He mentioned her twice. How did he ever pull of the Abrahamic Accords? He gave their King respect. A lot of it. Sure, he had one of his critic literally dismembered in the Saudi embassy in Turkey. So, the Dems focused on that, during the Biden interregnum, and went a long way in alienating the ruling Saudi family. Trump is quickly winning them back. And, yes, he mentioned one Jered Kushner last, not noting the familial connection, who was, of course, the other person instrumental in putting those Accords together. That’s how he does deals.
Bruce Hayden, well said.
neo – you run the only Republican/Conservative/Classic Liberal blog that I can comment regularly on. Have learned a lot here – the term “Classic Liberal” is probably my favorite (for now) so far, but many more other learned are not far behind.
Not all news that is negative about Trump is part of ‘MSM’s conspiracy to Portray Trump as Evil’ – much of today’s news is also heavily influenced by growing ‘n quickly emerging Republican/Conservative/Classic Liberal sources. However, Republican/Conservative/Classic Liberal sources seem to stay busy making excuses for him—even when they know or suspect such about him is right. In other words, there are enough news sources out there now that one can quickly (usually) determine what is happening one way or the other, IMHO.
President Trump is not “Putin’s puppet,” tho it can sometimes seem that Putin can lead him around by the nose. Is that Trump’s ‘Bully’ part fearing a stronger bully…I dunno. I am still trying to give Trump more time to make things work out, but it is not easy when seeing (on video) and reading the things he has said about Zelensky ‘n Ukraine. Is that Trump being in a kind of partnership with Putin? Trump should’ve never allowed it to get to such a point of perception, especially when he has done so well on the Domestic front. Disaster vs Success…
Excuses. It is Trump who should think before striking out in vengeful ways…there is no excuse for how he has attacked ‘n blamed Zelensky ‘n Ukraine—heck, not even Republican/Conservative/Classic Liberal news sources can cover up his actions, and seem only able to offer pathetic excuses, IMHO. You have phrased much of the problems in this post here, e.g. ‘words are blunt instruments .. can be very ill-advised and alarming…’.
Will skip O’Reilly’s excuses…
Update: Ditto on Ray Van Dune’s ‘Thanks so much for this piece…‘
I’d have to sit listening to O’Reilly longer than I have time to do today.
There were several points at which this conflict could have been avoided, or stopped once the first Russian assault failed so spectacularly. Assigning most of the blame to Putin, who obviously has territorial ambitions and who pursued those brutally in other places, does not preclude placing some degree of blame on Ukraine and especially on the Biden administration.
Now we are faced with the results of three years of destruction and bloodshed. The task at hand is to stop that, if possible, in view of what has happened, not in view of how it could have been handled better during the Biden years.
Boris Johnson on Trump and Ukraine. Good advice for the Europeans
“ When are we Europeans going to stop being scandalised about Donald Trump and start helping him to end this war?
Of course Ukraine didn’t start the war. You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor.
Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.
Of course Zelenskyy’s ratings are not 4%. They are actually about the same as Trump’s.
Trump’s statements are not intended to be historically accurate but to shock Europeans into action.
In particular the US can see $300bn of frozen Russian assets – mainly in Belgium. That is cash that could and should be used to pay Ukraine and compensate the US for its support.
Why is Europe preventing the unfreezing of Putin’s cash?
The US believes Belgium, France and other countries are blocking. It’s absurd. We need to get serious and fast.”
https://instapundit.com/703971/
You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor. – Bob, there are those that say the US forced Japan to act. Not me.
I have no idea what Trump is doing concerning Ukraine. I, no way, think that Trump is being led around by Putin. Nor is he afraid of him.
Re: Trump’s tactics and strategies
Currently I’m watching The Culture Mafia channel which analyzes “The Godfather” films and books. An interesting bonus is that the narration relates it to Robert Greene’s “The 48 Laws of Power” which was a bestseller in the late 90s.
I didn’t read it straight through, but browsed the laws which looked interesting. One could call the book an update of Machiavelli’s “The Prince.”
Trump can definitely be described in terms of some of the 48 Laws.
Law 3: Conceal Your Intentions
Law 6: Court Attention at All Costs
Law 8: Make Other People Come to You—Use Bait if Necessary
Law 9: Win Through Your Actions, Never Through Argument:
Law 15: Crush Your Enemy Totally
Law 17: Keep Others in Suspended Terror: Cultivate an Air of Unpredictability
Law 25: Re-Create Yourself
Law 27: Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following
Law 34: Be Royal in Your Own Fashion: Act Like a King to Be Treated Like One as one.
Law 37: Create Compelling Spectacles
Law 39: Stir Up Waters to Catch Fish: Create confusion to gain the advantage
Of course Trump didn’t get his game out of a book. My point is that he is working from a bigger power toolbox than most of our politicians, thus often confusing people. But there are methods to his madness.
This will be brief. It seems I can get things done at home or keep up with current events but not both. But I can’t let this go.
”What must be kept in mind is that the war in Ukraine is Biden’s and the Dems’ war.”
Good grief! No, it is not. Russia started this war and no one else.
Russia invaded Ukraine for Russian reasons. Ukraine is defending itself for Ukrainian reasons. Neither has anything to do with Biden, Trump, or domestic American politics.
Well, if the Biden administration had projected strength, it’s possible Russia wouldn’t have planned its grand invasion. Putin thought, based on his military advisors, I suppose, that Ukraine could be conquered in just a few weeks.
And once Ukraine demonstrated its resistance effectively, Biden could have released more weaponry sooner to give them a chance to actually win the conflict. Also, western Euro countries could have stepped up far more to assist.
And, Zelensky made a serious wrong bet when he more or less campaigned for Harris and against Trump last fall.
mkent:
I agree that “Biden’s war” isn’t actually the case. But I think that what was probably meant by that was that, compared to Trump, Biden had a much larger hand in it. In public statements, he gave Putin leeway right before it began, And he failed to do anything to end it. Also, his weakness in general and in Afghanistan in particular gave Putin the idea that this would be a good time to strike.
Neo: “Also, his weakness in general and in Afghanistan in particular gave Putin the idea that this would be a good time to strike.”
Estonian politician Martin Helme made precisely this point to Mark Steyn in February 2022:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcVBS6qH9j8&t=2224s
Back when Steyn was still on GBNews. And healthy.
A thought occurred to me (inconceivable) that President Trump’s Chief of Staff may not be able to provide wise council every time.
It was reported that President Trump said that Russia lost so many lives taking back Ukraine from the Nazis (conflating Russia and the USSR) so Russia has some claim. If he said it, well a lot of Ukrainians died fighting the Nazis as did Belorussians. And of course the USSR gave Ukraine the Holodomor, too.
So, did President Trump swallow the Russian spin? I hope not. Time will tell.
“Also, his weakness in general and in Afghanistan in particular gave Putin the idea that this would be a good time to strike.”
The exact timing is almost certainly due to the botched pullout from Afghanistan. Troop movements toward the Ukrainian border began just a few weeks after that.
But Russia is on a deadline. It has less than 20 years to achieve its military goals. Ukraine is just the first step. So this war was always going to happen sometime this decade Biden or no Biden, Trump or no Trump.
”So, did President Trump swallow the Russian spin?”
It appears so, probably via Tucker Carlson. His interview with Putin seemed to thrust some of these nuttier ideas into the mainstream.
Tucker has proven to be a profound disappointment.
Huxely, thanks for the 48 Laws reference. The ones you highlighted sure sound like Trump.
Russia started the war. And be clear, under Putin it will start others if it can get away with it. Putin’s KGB background and Russia First mentality means he will push at anything to reestablish the old Soviet borders.
What we need now is Reagan. What we have got is Trump.
In Europe this is going down very badly and there is complete shock that the US President seems to prefer to believe PUtin over any European leader. There is a lot of wild talk but the reality is that without the US Ukraine will eventually be defeated.
The long term effect of this in US-European relations will be bad. Maybe Trump sees better deals to be had with those other than his traditional allies?