The varieties of Trump-hatred
Commenter “physicsguy” writes:
I have a good friend from grad school who is a typical democratic liberal, bordering on left, with a mild case of TDS. Generally he is a good guy except his politics blinds him to some obvious facts. I follow his FB page just to see what’s up, and also it’s a great way to monitor the thoughts of the more looney left as many of his friends fall into that category.
Things were quiet after the election, but have burst forth since Monday. On Tuesday there was much anguish about how we’re all going to die and the country will descend into Nazism, and how RFK is going make everyone drink bleach, etc etc. No rational thought at all, just complete mental breakdowns. Today, lot’s of reposts from left social workers and psychologists about how the flurry of executive orders is intentionally designed to keep all these poor people in a state of disequilibrium. …
Just wondering if Neo has seen similar reactions from here lib friends. It really is fascinating to watch.
My answer is yes and no. There’s been a lot of variety in responses, and I’ve come to think of it as the three varieties of Trump-hatred.
The first type probably shouldn’t even be called “hatred”; more like intense dislike and disapproval. These people never vote for Republicans or even consider it, but they’re not especially political animals. They follow politics somewhat but not obsessively, and it doesn’t dominate their lives or even come close. That doesn’t mean they don’t have firm political opinions, but their emotional investment in those opinions isn’t extremely high, and in particular their tolerance of their political wishes being thwarted is also relatively high.
The second group does hate Trump. They talk about him more, and when they do it’s with a bitter biting tone of extreme contempt. He’s stupid, he’s coarse, he’s a misogynist, he’s racist, he’s corrupt, he’s a sexual predator. They think the next four years are going to be awful but they aren’t living in significant fear.
Members of the third group are the ones physicsguy is describing. In their regular lives, they’re intelligent, thoughtful, and kind. But they believe some or even all of the following: Trump’s tenure means that there will never be another fair election and that the GOP will rig things somehow (method unspecified) to make it the case, Trump will try to run again in 2028, Trump will ban abortion on a national level, Trump will give Ukraine to Russia rather than just make some concessions to Russia, Trump will try to imprison his enemies and opponents with unfair charges, Trump will harm black people and gay people and trans people (perhaps by putting them in concentration camps), Trump will censor speech including the speech of the TDS sufferer, Trump will cause the death of millions including the TDS sufferer. How he will kill those people is left unspecified: will it be a war? A failure to deal properly with an epidemic? Global warming? Starvation? Gulags? Concentration camps and gas chambers? I don’t know, but it’s apparently some or all of the above.
In my circle of friends and acquaintances, groups one and two are rather large and group three is fortunately quite small. But it exists, and I know two people who fall into that category, one more rational than the other. I probably actually know more than two, but I’m not necessarily in close enough touch to know the details of each person’s thoughts on the matter.
It’s very sobering.
Trump 2028… let’s make it happen.
Pretty sure you mean “The Varieties of TDS Experience”…
As demonstrated by all those fanatical lovers—and upholders—of Democracy (and good judgment), especially that most imaginative—Don’t You DARE Raise Yer Arm, Not Even to Sniff Yer Armpit—AOC…as well as the illustrious Democratic Party’s state legislators in the State of Minnesota….
https://nypost.com/2025/01/22/opinion/sore-loser-democrats-obstructing-democracy-now-in-minnesota/
It strikes me as odd that if such people actually truly believed that Trump is indeed this horrific monster that they imagine him to be that they wouldn’t in fact live in fear for themselves. I’m guessing they’re able to avoid painful cognitive dissonances through the simple fact that they may (perhaps subconciously) understand that Trump really isn’t everything that they imagine him to be.
Nonapod:
That second group doesn’t think he’s a monster, just a bad bad president and a bad man. It’s only the third group that thinks he’s a monster of Hitleresque proportions.
I think my daughter’s mother-in-law falls into the second group. She’s willing to believe anything negative about Trump that she hears. She used to watch CNN exclusively and seems to have downgraded to watching MSNBC. Recently she called her son, and after discussing the difficulties of caring for her beloved husband in his dementia, she said, “Boy, all those LGBTQ people who voted for Trump are going to be really sorry because he says there are only two genders.” My son-in-law replied, “Well, there are only two.” She was flabbergasted and unable to reply. He used to be a liberal and we’re proud of him. He’s coming along.
From time to time I’ve checked back in on NeverTrump bastions where I’m familiar with the commenting community there, and really what they have is a different filter and weighting for facts.
For example, the J6 pardons are beyond the pale, a slap in the face to the dedicated professionals in the FBI and Capitol Police as well as a signal that Trump rewards political violence on his behalf. The Biden pardons are a sensible precaution against Trump’s vindictiveness. The executive orders are the sign of incipient dictatorship. The Trump memecoin is a con and a sign of how Trump plans to use his office to enrich himself (further) by picking the pockets of the chumps who voted for him. Trump’s verbal softness when speaking of Putin is a sign that Trump worships dictators, intends to be one, and will let Russia have whatever Putin wants. Etc. Everything is interpreted in the worst possible light.
Now, if we want, we can look at folks like this, and check our own thinking for these kinds of filters and weighting, and try to correct our views to reality. Alternatively, we just dismiss these other people as broken-brained and carry on doing and saying as we do, assuming that we already have reality all figured out.
I feel we (Americans overall) dodged a big bullet by electing Trump. Can you imagine 4 years of Harris? (would have been worse IMO actually than the 4 years of Biden). Having dodged that bullet we need to proceed full force with the conservative agenda with disregard for what the left thinks or does. No Mercy. In time most of those liberals will see the error of their ways. And if they don’t so what. All we did was get to the starting line of this left/right conflict. The left has not faced pushback before. Now they will, and it will be good overall.
I suspect the common denominator for all three types is getting their “news” from the NYT, WaPo, CNN, etc.
My experience has been similar to physicsguy- I have a few Facebook friends with TDS (some old high school friends and a cousin). They were initially quiet for a few days after Trump’s election but are now blasting out all kinds of crazy predictions. What I wonder is if there would be a point where they will back off and admit that they were wrong- say if none of their fears come to pass and Trump turns out to be a great president. Peace in the Middle East, an end to the war in Ukraine, a great economy, etc.. Just curious.
I know several people in the third group. They are intelligent, sensible, likeable people–except on the subject of politics. Then they’re just…I don’t think crazed is too strong a word. It’s not simple disagreement, it’s not even a case of being informed by a completely different set of data or quasi-data. It’s the displacement of thought by very intense and unbalanced emotion and fantasy.
Current example: they all truly believe, as far as I can tell, as of three days ago, that Elon Musk is in actual fact an actual Nazi. When they talk about any of this stuff, it’s like a Jekyll-Hyde transformation. Any disagreement results not in “I disagree” but “WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?”
Chris B: “What I wonder is if there would be a point where they will back off and admit that they were wrong- say if none of their fears come to pass ”
I can testify to a couple of instances where I can say that there doesn’t seem to be such a point. I know a couple of people who, when Trump won in 2016, claimed to be certain that Trump would implement concentration camps, at least, and probably death camps. The fact that none of that happened does not seem to have fazed them in the least. They’re still saying that kind of thing.
The hysteria from anti-Trump types won’t stop. Trump’s trolling doubles as confirmation of their priors.
We’re watching a mass psychotic break in real time based on what I am seeing in my Facebook feed and in various Reddit forums. There is a shocking inability to think critically. I’m tempted to engage, but have decided to keep a low profile at this point. It’s like when you’re on the NYC subway – don’t make eye contact (or otherwise engage) with the crazy people.
oops
Several months ago Megyn Kelly had Bill Maher on as a guest. They had their disagreements but for the most part it was civil. Then when Megyn changed the subject to Trump, Maher came close to going off the rails. His tone and body language changed markedly. On one of his near-rants he asked her about all the cops who were killed on J-6. When told no cop was killed, he sarcastically said “did they die from natural causes?” Megyn then informed him that NONE were killed that day. He was dumbfounded and quickly changed the subject. My point is I wonder how many in Neo’s 3 categories hate Trump based on false information? And further, would some (any) change their mind if they knew so much of what they believe was simply not true. I think of the saying I heard from when I was in first grade. “It takes a man to admit he’s wrong”. So, not very many I’m afraid based on my life experiences.
My experience thus far is considerably (and mercifully) different than most people here. Most of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances are in Neo’s second group, with a small number in the first, and an even smaller (but noteworthy) few in the third. And yet, as day four of Trump’s second term draws to a close, almost of all of them are fairly muted. There are a few histrionics, of course (mostly about Musk and Hegseth), and a bit of smug virtue signaling (including hero worship of that ridiculous Episcopalian bishop), but that’s about it. It’s a stark contrast from eight years ago when these same people were in histrionics constantly, and rergitating every ridiculous rumor and conspiracy theory they heard or read with somber certitude.
It’s certainly not that any of these folks have changed their opinions on Trump. But I think he’s worn them down a good deal. They’re resigned to him and have expended several lifetimes worth of hatred and fury in him over the last nine and a half years. They’ve been certain, over and over and over again that ‘this time’, he’s finished; this scandal, this impeachment, this lawsuit,this indictment, this conviction…this (though they’d never say it openingly) assassination attempt…THIS TIME he’s FINALLY finished.
But he’s back, and arguably stringer than ever.
Just my experience. Perhaps this will change in the coming weeks
@ Mac >”Current example: they all truly believe, as far as I can tell, as of three days ago, that Elon Musk is in actual fact an actual Nazi.”
Sarah Hoyt addressed that belief today, pointing out in excruciating detail, in words that a third-grader could understand, how literally off-the-charts insane that is.
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2025/01/23/it-makes-no-sense/
She is absolutely correct that it makes no sense, in any possible scenario, to believe that Musk is a Nazi, considering his (and Trump’s) long-standing support for Israel in particular and Jews in general.
Her argument works IF you define “Nazism” as the historically correct “a Jew-hating, mass-murdering, socialist ideology, based on a belief in a particularized racial superiority, having a dictatorial control of all power levers and a total disregard for human rights.”
From what I’m reading, the Left in Neo’s category #3 (and less so in #1 and #2) really do believe that Trump, and Musk, are defined by that statement IF you leave off “Jew- hating” — because since THEY hate Jews, or at least Israelis, then “Nazis” by their definition are NOT Jew haters — and “socialist” — because they all know that the Nazis were right-wingers.
QED
As Reagan said, “The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/ronald_reagan_440732
Over on a Yahoo News article about Trump declassifying the JFK and MLK Jr files, the TDS was still on full display among the comments. The word went out that the prices of eggs are still high. And Trump hasn’t fixed that already. Bad Trump. Bad Trump.
@ Mac > “The fact that none of that happened does not seem to have fazed them in the least. They’re still saying that kind of thing.”
This is a well-known psychological phenomenon, often seen in dooms-day believers when the day doesn’t doom.
https://slate.com/technology/2011/05/apocalypse-2011-what-happens-to-a-doomsday-cult-when-the-world-doesn-t-end.html
https://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Leon-Festinger/dp/1614272905
I chose the Slate post quite deliberately, because the author is making fun of the religious nut-jobs on the right who believe such silly things.
That there are equally nutty ideologists on the left is never admitted, of course, although the author ought to heed his own advice:
“For those not waiting for the world to end in a storm of fire and light it is easy to write off the believers as deluded, but Festinger was not so wide of the mark when he suggested that we adapt to even the most unlikely of contradictions using nothing more than our methods of everyday rationalization. The faithful could just as easily be those who stubbornly stand by disgraced politicians, failed ideologies, dishonest friends, or cheating spouses, even when reality highlights the clearest of inconsistencies. “
“They think the next four years are going to be awful but they aren’t living in significant fear.”
Agree with the post above noting this and would add that a large dose of narcissism is present with hysteria addiction.
”She is absolutely correct that it makes no sense, in any possible scenario, to believe that Musk is a Nazi.”
It does from a certain point of view. Not that Musk is an actual Nazi, but believing he is one is consistent with a left-wing worldview.
Most of us on the right judge people and groups based on their actions. The Nazis did a, b, c, & d. A, b, c, & d are objectively evil. Therefore the Nazis were evil (based upon their actions).
Other people reverse that thought process. They decide who is good and evil first and then — maybe — judge their actions based on that decision. That’s how a judge can rule an executive order written by Trump is unconstitutional while admitting one written by Hillary that was word-for-word identical would have been just fine.
Their thought process goes like this: Musk is evil. The Nazis were evil. Therefore Musk is a Nazi. Then when they see an innocuous hand gesture they experience confirmation bias. “Told ya told ya told ya! I told you so!!!”
You can ask them “What Nazi-like things has Musk done?” and they won’t be able to answer in anything other than vague generalities, because it’s not about what Musk has done. And you can show them pictures of Taylor Swift and AOC making the same gesture, and they won’t care, because “Swift and AOC are not evil” and thus not Nazis. So it’s not about the gesture either.
The problem with this mode of thinking is that once someone slips into it, it’s almost impossible to get him to stop thinking that way. All my tools as an engineer fail me in that task.