Ghosting and cutoff – political or otherwise
Yesterdays’s thread on the subject of cutoff because of political disagreement had so many interesting comments that I want to take up one of the issues raised.
I think there’s a huge difference between cutting off an acquaintance with whom you’ve already grown apart, and cutting off long-term friends or close family with whom you’ve previously had a good relationship. Cutoff, and even ghosting, might not be a big deal with the first and might even be mutually acceptable – although I wouldn’t recommend that anyone automatically assume it is. Relationships are not always symmetrical.
So if you ghost someone (and for anyone unfamiliar with the expression, it means to cut off communication without any sort of explanation or notice) – even if you think that person welcomes it or doesn’t care, and even if you never hear from the person again, which reinforces your assumption – it just might be that the person is hurt or even deeply hurt, confused, and shocked, and doesn’t know how to convey it to you.
When you ghost someone you simply don’t care – at least, not enough. Or maybe you care, but your main emotion is anger and you want to hurt the person’s feelings. He or she may not even know why you stopped communicating. And it’s far worse to do that to someone with whom you were close, and even worse if you previously had a good relationship except for politics.
I think it’s obvious by now that I’m not a fan of ghosting. Never have been, even before I ever heard the term.
Ghosting is at least somewhat cowardly, IMHO, especially if the person has never harangued you about politics but has merely politely disagreed, or if you don’t talk about politics with the person at all although you know you disagree. And of course politics isn’t the only reason for cutoff, not by a longshot.
I think it’s much better to have the courage to explain, which at least honors the depth of your past friendship or family tie by giving the person that much courtesy and that much respect. No need to act angry, either, and definitely no need to bring any third people into the mix.
I once experienced cutoff from a good friend but at least I knew why because she told me – and the reason wasn’t politics. But it was a misunderstanding I couldn’t seem to clear up although I tried. For five years we didn’t speak, but then slowly, with a series of steps, we became friends again and now (knock wood!) are very close friends again.
In contrast, I once was ghosted by an old and dear friend, and although I wrote her asking to please explain, she didn’t communicate at all for about seven years, until I saw her at a school reunion. I figured this was my chance – I went over and we chatted, and then I asked her point blank what had happened. She gave me a couple of reasons that didn’t make sense to me, but I didn’t argue with her. I knew it wouldn’t work, and I knew our friendship was over. But it was a tremendous relief just to see her and hear what she had to say.
Maybe that’s just me. But I don’t think I’m alone in wanting to know.
I did not Ghost someone, I told her that I could not continue doing emails with her. We met her and her husband (now deceased) on a cruise. They were from the UK, both working in the UK social services field. My Wife and I knew they were very Liberal after conservations, but we all kind of agreed not to do political talk. We visited several times when we were in the UK. Then, when Trump first won we definitely would not discuss politics. When Biden won in 2020, nothing was said until the inauguration. Then she wrote that she and her friends were all so glad that Trump was gone. At that point, knowing what would happen (turns out it has been worse than I thought), I was very angry with her. I told her I could not continue with a friendship. She did try to say that it shouldn’t be that way, but I just could not. Stayed that way until about a month ago when I emailed her about my Wife’s cancer. We are in communications now, I update her when I do updates to our friends. But, I have to say, I still am not comfortable with her, but I say nothing because my Wife likes her.
I will most likely let her know that we will be in the UK in April, and where we will be staying.
I think most men would have a different view on some of this, plus there is some bias towards modern technology.
My post grad roommate and I were very close, then he moved to another part of the county. We wrote a few letters – what is now called snail mail – but it’s hard to maintain relationships by mail, and men don’t pick up the phone to chat. And the letters stopped and that was that. And while we are connected on LinkedIn today, we are not what I call “friends” any more as that friendship was long ago.
But this is true of lots of people I know, even in the modern age. Friends come, friends go, and while my neighbor Tony and I hung out a lot and enjoyed each other’s company, I never saw him again when I moved 15 minutes away, even when mobile phones and email were common. The relationship was over with a change of circumstances, and we were both busy with families to raise and moved on.
Is there “ghosting” when the other person doesn’t cross your mind? I didn’t not purposely contact people, it’s that I moved onto other things. I think this may be a guy thing, or maybe because I’m introverted and don’t put super high value on social engagement.
Family is an obligation, and while I have many relatives that I have lost contact with just because of time or distance, if they call or knock, I answer.
I feel as though I have been rebuked.
whatever,
Yes, I agree with a lot of what you say here. Was ‘Ghosting’ a thing in the pre social media era? Depending on the definition I have been guilty of this a few times over the years as I’ve seen or been aware of a friend’s beliefs or behavior and just decided I didn’t want to be around that but also didn’t want to make a whole thing out of it so I just stepped away from the friendship and soon weeks became months became years and that was it.
I would add that I’m a solitary type, always have been. And I don’t like drama of the sort that usually ensues in the circumstances neo described.
As far as I’m concerned I’ve experienced entirely too much real drama in my personal life over the past year. I’m tired of it. I’m fed up. I’ve undergone too many difficulties in that period, if not before, to engage in the stupid drama of conversations over politics and hurt feelings and suchlike.
Enough already.
My ghosting experience, which was not online, but based on a face to face encounter.
About a decade ago I was back in my New England hometown. I met a high school friend at a local coffee shop. In discussing classmates, he mentioned a classmate in Nevada who had become a Tea Party supporter. Bear in mind that in my hometown, the Tea Party was viewed as being equivalent to the KKK or the Nazi Party. 🙂 I replied that I liked a lot of what the Tea Party stood for.
My high school friend replied, “That’s because you live in Texas.”
I replied, “Actually, my support of the Tea Party stems from my hometown experiences.”
“Because I have to prepare for a meeting of the Zoning Board tonight, this meeting is at an end.”
I had a decade of experience as a board member of my HOA. Pertinent documents were sent to board members several days before the meeting. We had made arrangements to meet at the coffee shop three days before. As such, I doubted that the only time he had to peruse the appropriate documents was in the three hours he had before the board meeting. My opinion was that he used the board meeting as an excuse to terminate the conversation.
That was that. He was in charge of an upcoming class reunion. I didn’t rely to any class reunion mailings he sent me. If a one-time friend cut me off like that, I saw no point in traveling 2,000 miles for a reunion.
His reaction is similar to some cousins. He expressed a political opinion, expecting confirmation that I, in agreeing with him, was also one of the “good people,” on the right team. Virtue signaling, some call it. He, like my cousins, was shocked that I didn’t agree with him. He, like my cousins, wasn’t interested in an exchange of disagreeing opinions, but in getting confirmation that I agreed with him. Like my cousins, he accordingly bailed out of the conversation.
I found it especially annoying because he had expressed his opinion of the reason for my political views, but was not interested in finding out MY OPINION of the reasons for my political views.
The next day I had an eleven hour conversation with my fifth grade girlfriend. Politics never came up.
Was ‘Ghosting’ a thing in the pre social media era?
Yes. Men and women ghosting each other is a venerable no-drama expedient to breaking up. It can be cruel — someone always gets hurt — but that’s the nature of the game. If you can’t take it, don’t enter the arena.
ChatGPT — are humans herd oriented?:
Answer was much longer than that. The term ‘Sheeple’ comes to mind. ChatGPT — Are humans sheeple?:
Don’t sass me, ChatGPT…
ChatGPT — can humans live in solitude:
Prison taught me a GREAT lesson – some people don’t need or want other people. They don’t want to be members of a herd or tribe. Most people can’t do without constant human contact.
“Ghosting” is an interesting term that I noticed a year or two ago…chatter on social media that made a little news. “cutoff” has been around much longer, from what I have seen. Noticed some ‘Tribalism’ and/or ‘Herd Mentality’ in the comments made in “Yesterdays’s thread”.
Family and friends can be difficult to break away from, but such breaks can also be helpful to oneself. ChatGPT — finding oneself:
Another long answer so just used the intro. I was the oldest of 6 kids – text one brother once a week (maybe talk once a week when needed) but no communications with any other family members. Brother’s wonderful wife died a couple years ago, but he can’t let her go, so I stay in touch with him.
Have come to believe that I was a natural born hermit—born into a fairly large military family that went to church every Sunday (morning & evening) & Wednesday (evening), and moved to new locations (adjust to new school) every 1-3 years. 😉
IrishOtter:
That seems like a perfectly reasonable explanation, that could be conveyed to the person or people in question, maybe even in an email or text. Wouldn’t necessarily be a big brouhaha.
IrishOtter49,
Yes, but did it have a name or was it just something that happens to people in the course of their lives.
I think that what is meant by the term ‘friend’ has been really stretched in the social media age. I do not consider someone I have never met in person as a ‘friend’ or someone I went to high school with 40 years ago but haven’t actually seen since then.
On the other hand, if it is someone you do see somewhat often it is much more difficult to ‘ghost’ them without some sort of real life confrontation.
Social media has warped so many things and the idea of friendships is just one.
I lean towards whatever’s and IrishOtter’s comments. I can’t think of anyone close that I’ve ghosted over politics (though I have stopped getting things like FB updates from acquaintances and even relatives who were posting political material) but I suspect it has happened in both directions. I can understand the desire to be upfront, especially if the relationship was close, but I can’t avoid getting a “It’s not you, it’s me” vibe from Neo’s descriptions of the encounters. I can see airing a disagreement that has some prospect of being resolved, or where there might be a misinterpretation of motive (like the relationship revolved around an activity that you just can’t continue) but it just seems to me that such a conversation over politics could just go wrong in many ways, and is very unlikely to result in a mutually agreeable parting.
IrishOtter; et al:
For a pre-internet example of ghosting, I recommend the short story “The Demon Lover” by Shirley Jackson.
Griffin makes a great point/s:
Communication & news is basically instant now. Just before texting became mainstream (2000?) I had thought far too many people seemed to have their cellphones to their ears all the time—driving, walking, shopping, working, etc., but then many started doing thumb actions on their phones…later I realized it was called “texting.”
Social media age? I was way behind on that too—MySpace 2003, Facebook 2004, YouTube 2005, Twitter 2006 and then a little break until WhatsApp in 2009, Instagram 2010, Snapchat in 2011 and another break until TikTok in 2016.
A lot of human interaction over the internet and phones for the past 24+++ years. Is that causing more “Ghosting and cutoff”? I dunno…
Neo, a number of years ago you had a posting and thread about losing friends, not exactly being cut off or being ghosted. It was more about drifting apart and losing touch and the question of where did she/he go and what happened. The underlying question was – what is friendship? Sometimes people become so dissimilar that they have little in common. And with family the ONLY connection is blood. Maybe some of this cutting off is just a speed up for simply wanting to go your own way. In other words, they finally found an excuse.
I think ghosting is more prevalent now with texting and social media. I agree it’s cowardly if done to a friend or to someone in a relationship. Not a big deal if it’s with a more casual acquaintance (first date, say). It was harder to ghost before the age of texting and email, and especially before caller ID. Remember the time when you actually picked up the phone if it rang, with no idea of who was calling?
Karmi:
Which version of ChatGPT are using? No criticism intended.
I have found perceptible differences going from 3.5 to 4 and now 4.o.
huxley
I asked after you said you were using 4.o. It said it was 4…it’s free.
Must update automatically – ChatGPT-4
Karmi:
Does your 4.0 include DALL-E, the image generator?
After I used 3.5 for a while, I upgraded to 4 for $20/month, so I could make requests like:
Render a McDonald’s in Southern California in the style of Rembrandt.
It’s fun, but not necessarily worth $20/month. However, I think ChatGPT 4.o is worth it for the more advanced AI.
The Other Chuck:
That’s not what happened in these cases ar all. These were very close friends. For example, talked at least once a week or more for 40 years. And not about trivia, either.
Jimmy:
I know someone who was ghosted by someone she was engaged to and building a house with.
huxley
Just opened chatGPT on new tablet and it shows chatGPT 4o mini. It has create image…not sure what it says when logged in on main desktop.
Yeah, I pay a yearly subscription to X – less than $8 a month, but no others. Musk made the liberals mad so I help the $400-billion man… 🙂
I used to talk on the phone to an old high school best friend several times a week. Our conversations were largely one-sided. He didn’t seem that interested in what I had to say. Still I was happy to keep the connection up.
However, when annoyed, he got into the habit of hanging up on me. I would call him back the next day to restore the relationship. However, after the third time I chose not to call him back.
I heard from him three or four months later. He had had a minor stroke, which I understood. Nonetheless, when I reminded him that he had hung up on me, he told me that I had been screaming at him.
I had not. Actually I was irritated at another of his put-downs and responded in a tone of voice he often used on me.
Seems he didn’t like it any more than I did.
I would have liked to have restored the relationship, but it was one of those threshold moments when I just wasn’t going to take it anymore.
I couldn’t figure out a way to communicate with getting very angry. So I let it go.
Three years later my little sister died, whom he knew, so I sent him a somewhat abrupt email about her death, my side of the story and my wish for his wellness and that we might communicate.
That was a year ago. I haven’t heard back. I check for his obituary online, but find nothing.
When you ‘ghost’ someone, I see it as a form of a betrayal. When you’ve been friends with somebody, or a relative, there’s a certain intimacy that is part of a relationship. ‘Ghosting’ not only violates this, it violates the notion of the shared human experience. The ultimate ‘ghosting’ experience of course, is when the other person dies. For relationships of emotional value, that triggers grieving. ‘Ghosting’ is intended to do the same thing, except without the closure of death. I could have no other reaction than to take my time to process this, and be grateful for the relationship in its day, and sorry that I didn’t see the treachery coming.
huxley @ 7:39 pm
Both mine (signed in and other not) have a Create image option…I ran it thru my signed in desktop and it rendered one and wrote:
Tried the same on Bing & Grok / X.
Bing did one that had what looks like Ronald McDonald & an artist (Rembrandt?) walking in front of a McDonald’s.
Grok did two – one of a McDonald’s during a sunset, and another in the style of da Vinci. Geez, Grok had even more options for the Rembrandt renderings, with palm trees, under a rainbow—all with 4 renderings, and options for more options. Also offered to do the same in the style of Monet.
I don’t use AI’s for such personally tho…
Karmi:
Thanks for the report!
I have my visual side — I used to do collages — and I was curious. I also purchased for my niece, who sells digital art on Etsy, a subscription so she could experiment.
My Rembrandt McDonald’s had a weird dark sperm-like thing flashing across the sky above the McDonald’s. I asked ChatGPT 4.o, which explained:
____________________________
…tools like DALL-E don’t truly “understand” objects in the way humans do. Instead, they generate images based on patterns learned from vast datasets of images and their associated descriptions.
I found this to be an interesting read about where some anti-Trump people are coming from and how they view people who voted for him:
https://open.substack.com/pub/leahrose/p/media-derangement-syndrome?r=p2ogp&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
I fear I am going to go through something with a long time acquaintance who has become unhinged by Trump’s election. They refer to him as abuser in chief and are absolutely out of their mind that half the country voted for such a horrible blank blank blank. It is hard for me to hold my tongue but I truly am hoping they will burn themselves out like a dog chasing its tail.
…but I truly am hoping they will burn themselves out like a dog chasing its tail.
DisGuested:
I think you are right.
Aggie:
You gave an excellent description of what I find so dreadful about ghosting when it involves a relationship of any actual depth.
Thanks Huxley. I hope it is sooner rather than later. God willing. I really do worry for this person. They are an important member of the community and many people count on them being sane. That is all I can say. Don’t want to risk it.
Huxley,
A friend has a workplace full of leftist women and they were unhinged the week after the election and she put it like they were crying toddlers and sometimes you just have to let them cry themselves out.
It is very much true as some have mentioned that for many, perhaps the great majority of left or liberals of whatever persuasion or degree, their identity as a Good Person ™ a Caring Person ™ and a Smart Person ™ is very much wrapped up in their political persuasion. It’s not just a mind that’s difficult to change, so is one’s identity.
Griffin and others ask:
Was ‘Ghosting’ a thing in the pre social media era?
———————————-
There was Miss Manners and her amazingly elegant Kafka Romance Dissolver – scroll down to the reader’s letter after the opening essay:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1981/09/20/the-call-of-the-wild/5131c43b-bbab-4fe0-845d-b5e7e5a7bbe6/
Marisa.
Very true. Hence the irrational resistance to contradictory facts.
As it happens, in various discussions, formal and informal, they are startingly ignorant of a whole lot of things you’d think ordinarily anybody would know. It’s as if they resist the stuff. And they’re proud of their college educations.
So, following the principle of parsimony, I figure there’s a Moral Outrage Alert Weekly Bulletin which tells them what to care about and what to dismiss and forget they ever knew. And that’s all they consult.
If there isn’t such a publication, whatever’s actually happening is pretty complicated.
What grinds me particularly, because I’m a veteran, is that in a group following the Oc 7 massacre, I noted that setting up to fight from among civilians is a war crime. They had no idea. We’ve been losing guys for sixty years trying to keep up our end of that law against those who do not. And not just in ones and twos. Fifty plus years ago, I ran into a guy who’d lost half his platoon due to restricted fire rules. Extortion One Seven cost thirty-six dead. The screw up at the Abbey Gate–Marine sniper had eyes on the suicide bomber’s vehicle and couldn’t get permission to fire–cost us thirteen dead and fifty-plus wounded.
THEY HAD NO FREAKING IDEA!
Except we and the IDF are the perennial bad guys.
Eesh. Think I’ll go do some pushups or something.
On the other hand, there are people who will insist to their graves they don’t know why this other person broke off contact, even when they admit at other times that they were explicitly told.
Welp, wrt my sisters and some longtime friends, I still communicate with them, but it’s by text or FB, and very terse.
We don’t like the same people, places or things. I love them, but have no mutual interests, which is a kind way to put it.