Home » Open thread 7/8/24

Comments

Open thread 7/8/24 — 61 Comments

  1. The talk about Biden’s replacement, be it as Prez or in the Campaign, hasn’t really touched much on another problem for the Dems. Who will the VP? Spec about Obama, Hillary or Newsom is not really addressing the problem they have. The Far Left will be pushing for someone like them. A ticket with two Women of Color really doesn’t sound like a winning move.

  2. Great video that summarizes the issue very well, as Hoffstader often does. Thanks for posting. But it’s easy to watch this and conclude the answer is obviously MOND – it is not that simple. The MOND that she describes, transitioning from one over r squared to simply one over r at some distance is simply “fitting the curve”. Fine, that has its place in science, but it is something that any first class mathematician could do. Applying that same MOND formula does not solve other “dark matter” problems that are seen on larger, intergalactic scales. For what it’s worth, MOND formulas have been developed that have solved those problems, but when you apply them to galactic rotation curves, they don’t work at all. This is a great mystery.

  3. Dark matter is still a theoretical construct we have encountered any of it correct

  4. It might be time to recognize the flood of leaks re: Biden’s obvious incapacity are not to push him out but to let the kool-aid drinkers and bedwetters get the angst out of their system in order to focus on defeating the democracy destroying felonious MAGA man. The people behind Biden who have been calling the shots will never find anyone else so amenable to letting them call the shots in exchange for playing the part of POTUS. The real campaign always starts after Labor Day. Biden’s incapacity will still be there but the democrats will have moved the narrative on to the greater evils of the other team.

  5. Biden has even lost the support of Meathead.

    Miguel cervantes said: Dark matter is still a theoretical construct we have encountered any of it correct

    Yeah, it’s basically a placeholder for something we don’t understand. We can observe its effects in terms of the motion of objects, like the rate at which material orbits galatic centers not really matching what you’d expect to see given the observable matter. So “dark matter” could either be some sort of particle that only “weakly” interacts with normal particles, or we have the wrong idea about how gravity works at great distances.

    Edit: It could also be large numbers of black holes floating around galatic halos, although I think that idea seems unlikley at this point.

  6. A huge flaw in our nation’s ratification of the Constitution was not including something regarding the sanctity of “money” and financial transactions between individuals into the Bill of Rights. Something akin to the 1st or 2nd Amendments.

    The reason it’s not there is almost certainly because the authors never imagined the Federal government would ever do something like outlaw gold or silver as currency. They may have envisioned an income tax, but that was already unconstitutional (until the dreaded 16th Amendment).

    Individuals freely negotiating on work and compensation for work is as inalienable as the right to hold opinions and speak them, or the right to self defense. Not specifically stating that in the Bill of Rights has led to the Federal government grossly usurping the citizenries’ rights regarding their labor, compensation and retaining their personal property. Just as James Madison warned.

  7. crasey,

    The people behind Biden who have been calling the shots will never find anyone else so amenable to letting them call the shots in exchange for playing the part of POTUS.

    They already have and she’s been in place for 3 years; Kamala. This was the plan.

  8. RufusT. Firefly said: They already have and she’s been in place for 3 years; Kamala. This was the plan.

    That assumes that Kamala would want to keep them on, she may have her own ideas. The Venn diagram of Biden’s lickspittles and Kamala’s lickspittles need not intersect. At any rate, Dr. Jill and Hunter would have no part in a Harris administration. Katherine Jean Pierre might be able to get a job as a hostess at Olive Garden perhaps.

  9. Art Deco: I’m here, got a late start this morning, slept in late…retiree privilege.

    Mike Plaiss has the right of it, changing from 1/r^2 to 1/r says nothing about any underlying physics. Dark matter/energy are just constructs with no evidence to explain the rotation curves and universe redshifts. I don’t have an answer, but as I’ve said before I’m a fan of the Italian theorists proposal of spacetime having a “fluid” nature as opposed the current GR model of a malleable, yet static spacetime. I would add that the “flow” results from the universe moving from a low entropy condition to a high entropy condition, which also solves the time arrow problem. Galactic rotation curves are a result of the viscous nature of the flow; just watch the spiral “galaxies” that form in the eddies of a stream. Oh, it also gives an explanation of why 1/SQRT(epsilon0*mu0) predicts the speed of light…just like compressibility and density give the speed of sound in a fluid.

    Of course, I’m not sure how QM fits in… back to my coffee.

  10. Thinking this could be like one of my favorite movies, The Caine Mutiny.
    A few officers, well Cabinet members charge Joe to be a sick man and then a trial for them Joe gets on the stand and starts on one of his wild stories showing he is living in his own mind.

  11. The progress of Alzheimers/Parkinsons/Dementia while steadily downward, are apparently idiosyncratic and progress at different rates for different people, thus, it’s possible that if things go really badly, a month or two down the line Joe could be unable to walk or perhaps communicate.

    Since Biden stubbornly refuses to give up his office, saying that he would only obey a direct order to vacate from God himself–thus taking the Democrat Party and down ballot candidates with him–perhaps Democrat heavy weights, who want him to go, should send him, “Dr.” Jill, Hunter, and others in Biden’s inner circle a letter somewhat modeled on Cromwell’s 1653 speech disbanding the Rump parliament i.e.

    (…“It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonoured by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice. Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government […]

    Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not process? […]

    So! Take away that shining bauble there (the ceremonial Mace of Power), and lock up the doors.)

    In the name of God, go!”

  12. A huge flaw in our nation’s ratification of the Constitution was not including something regarding the sanctity of “money” and financial transactions between individuals into the Bill of Rights. — Rufus

    My thought is similar, though a bit different. I think there should have been a blanket ban (that includes state governments) on taxes on wealth or property.

    These days, idiots like Liz Warren or Bernie want a new federal tax on wealth.

    The following book is fascinating and describes many events in the named time period, including how we got property taxes in the states. The author is something of a lefty, but a good enough historian that the reader can make their own conclusions.

    America’s First Great Depression: Economic Crisis and Political Disorder after the Panic of 1837
    Alasdair Roberts

  13. TommyJay,

    Consumption taxes are the only moral and ethical tax in a nation that recognizes that humans are free. Based on that I can allow some version of property taxes based on landowners “consuming” resources.

    But the government overreach goes way beyond taxation. In a free society there is no place for the government to get involved with any financial agreement mutually agreed to among sentient adults.

  14. While interesting to laymen who have no way of judging, leading theoretical physicists will almost certainly take issue with Hossenfelder’s claim about the non-existence dark matter. I’d be willing to bet real money if anyone is interested.

  15. what are the practical applications of dark matter, outside of theory

  16. Rufus T Firefly

    In theory we’re in agreement but either the reality of Harris is enough to keep the wolves at bay or the thought of having ones own secrets and weaknesses revealed is enough to keep the Bidens in place for now. They couldn’t keep Biden’s incapacity under wraps any longer so they put it out for all to see.

    It reminds me of the feeding frenzy over Monica’s blue dress that spelled Clinton’s doom only for the democrats to survive the scandal by leaning into it and making it so sordid the Senate didn’t want to hear the evidence. Biden is no Clinton but his survival strategy appears similar. We’ll see what voters think in November but that’s four months away. They’ll get the narrative changed by then and turn his incapacity into a virtue. You know, democracy and all…

  17. A huge flaw in our nation’s ratification of the Constitution was not including something regarding the sanctity of “money” and financial transactions between individuals into the Bill of Rights. Something akin to the 1st or 2nd Amendments.
    The reason it’s not there is almost certainly because the authors never imagined the Federal government would ever do something like outlaw gold or silver as currency. They may have envisioned an income tax, but that was already unconstitutional (until the dreaded 16th Amendment). Individuals freely negotiating on work and compensation for work is as inalienable as the right to hold opinions and speak them, or the right to self defense. Not specifically stating that in the Bill of Rights has led to the Federal government grossly usurping the citizenries’ rights regarding their labor, compensation and retaining their personal property. Just as James Madison warned.

    ==
    Money is a medium of exchange, a unit of account, and a store of value. It’s nothing sacred. You’ve conflated the mode of the currency with freedom of contract.

  18. Consumption taxes are the only moral and ethical tax in a nation that recognizes that humans are free.
    ==
    Thanks for the ex cathedra. We’re all enlightened.

  19. Luke Lea,

    As an experimental physicist I’ll take that bet. Our standards are a bit more realistic than the theorists; excluding Feynman of course, who as a theorist definitely thought more like an experimentalist…. see the Challenger hearings.

  20. was that it, or they painted ken starr as a dirty ole man, for investigating the matter, the same people who would put a halo on pat fitzgerald, and robert Mueller

    fitzgerald involved in the coverups pre september 11th, ht peter lance and mueller the post september 11th, like the bayoumi/al midhar tape,

  21. I’d add Fermi to that short list, but they are nevertheless a rare breed.

  22. Snow, ” he would only obey a direct order to vacate from God himself.” Is he talking about Schumer? Obama?

  23. crasey,

    I think Kamala is a member of Team Obama and in 2020 Team Obama assumed getting her in the V.P. slot made it likely she’d either ascend to the Presidency during Joe’s term(s), or she’d be elected after he served.

  24. miguel cervantes on July 8, 2024 at 1:22 pm said:
    what are the practical applications of dark matter, outside of theory

    That would obviously depend on what the hell “Dark Matter” turns out to be. If it’s a weakly interacting particle, specifically if it’s a so called “neatralino”, there was an idea that it could be used as an energy source. From this article

    One possibility, raised in a 2009 paper by New York University-trained physicist Jia Liu, might be using dark matter as an energy source to power spacecraft on extremely long missions.

  25. if true, you would have to create a contra terrene scoop so it doesn’t destroy the space craft

  26. Theoretical speculation on both dark matter and Kamala Harris juxtaposed in the same post.
    I didn’t know that was permitted….

  27. crossing the streams, I would like to know the basis for this construct

    kamala is denser that the densest dark matter,

  28. It is certainly possible that dark matter will not be any more real than phlogiston or ether, but it could also be as real as neutrinos and positrons, both of which were postulated to make the math come out right, as was germanium, gallium, and scandium in the 19th century. There’s nothing illegitimate about the approach. Sometimes someone finds a way to confirm the existence of the postulated entities and sometimes a new theory comes along that makes them unnecessary. For dark matter it’s taking an awfully long time.

    But the more people explore the consequences of dark matter being real, the higher the chance becomes that an experiment or an observation or a new theory settles the question one way or the other. Very little in physics is isolated from anything else, and the more connections are made the more likely some evidence turns up.

  29. what could cause dark matter, is it the first plasma ejected from a star, traveling a long distance,

  30. Rufus T Firefly

    Totally agree that was the plan and yet it isn’t happening.This was supposed to be her shot and yet it isn’t. So either Biden must be more powerful than Obama or Obama must be planning to ride B-H to victory or content to block/torment Trump as before with vengeful bureaucrats and never-ending investigation/prosecution.

  31. Niketas,

    As you note, dark matter is running up against a time problem like SETI. Instead of “where are they?”, it’s “where/what is it?”.

  32. @physicsguy:As you note, dark matter is running up against a time problem like SETI.

    Sure, and like SETI, the amount of effort spent looking puts some brackets on where and how it can possibly be. It’s probably the least satisfying way of learning something, crossing out a few of the infinite number of things that it COULD be but isn’t, but sometimes it’s all you have.

    But you never know what solutions are out there waiting for their problems. That’s certainly happened before, that something was found or thought of long before anyone knew what problem it solved.

    At any rate, as you know, but probably some of the other folks here don’t, you hear primarily about dark matter because science popularizers like to talk about it and their audiences like to read about it. It’s not the most significant component of the time and money generally being spent in physics. I mean, take a White Whale like p-type zinc oxide, I can’t think of anything in the popular press about it, despite the bazillions of papers and thousands of people working on it. Yet we hear about any random brainwave on dark matter probably weekly.

  33. Rufus T Firefly, I watched Sabine’s ” Embarrassed” video. I thought it slightly odd. It seems more that she is disappointed in the way Germany is going environmentally, and that is the source of her embarrassment.

    I quite like her videos.

  34. Hi, Rufus. You inquired:

    Anyone watched Sabine’s video on why she’s embarrassed to be German?

    I watched the first half. She seemed to be spending an awful lot of time (relative to the video’s length) complaining about the trains. I therefore moved on to something else about halfway through. However, I don’t deny the validity of her points insofar as the condition of the German rail system seems to me to be a reasonable proxy for a lot of things in German society. I haven’t been there in decades, to be sure, but yes, I remember when the timetables were extremely reliable, and it grieves me to hear about some of the things people have to go through seemingly on a routine basis now when taking the train there.

    One commenter on another site, in connection with a different article about the DB, said something I found sad but funny, to the effect that if [embarrassing train-travel screw-up X] had happened in Japan, the responsible parties in management would have thrown themselves off a skyscraper within five minutes of the news getting out, but apparently in Germany these days, no one in the government or elsewhere felt the need to take responsibility at all. I have a hard time crediting that things can have been so run down in the DB operations in so short a time, but would like to go there (well, maybe ‘like’ is not really the right word) and judge it for myself.

    Anyway, that was the extent of my interaction with that video. Did the good Frau Dr. touch upon other subjects?

  35. I think this is an important insight to the Democrat strategy regarding AI. The Mike Mansfield center in MT is supposed to represent the ideals of a former Senator. Mike was liberal, but he was also old fashioned in his understanding of ethics and fair play. This “meeting” will show you how far the Dems in MT have come in preparing for the response to the illegal voting that will come in November. The state has put all ballots into a computerized system–supposedly well balance by the AI technology. Read this and weep: https://umontana.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_pyTwJSE0SFOoKIMVgO9sJA#/registration

  36. Sabine’s rant:

    I never thought I would say this, but I’m embarrassed to be German. Things are going seriously wrong here, in Germany. And I want to talk about this because I think from the outside it’s not all that obvious. Yet. I’ve had many people from overseas asking me “what happened to your country, it didn’t used to be that way.” And that’s right.

    Germany is not the well-functioning, environmentally super-conscious, high-tech nation it used to be. You go to a train station, half the trains are cancelled, the other half is delayed, the escalators are broken, the announcements are barely audible, and in the unlikely event that you can connect to the wifi it’s so slow that by the time the news is streaming it’s become a historical documentary. Or maybe it’s quantum wifi, collapses the moment you touch it.

    Ok, I’m exaggerating. It’s not always and everywhere that bad. But it gives you an impression. Something is wrong. And it’s not just the railway. The German government has made a long sequence of bad decisions about our infrastructure and technological development. As a consequence, this country is slowly but inevitably falling behind technologically, and because of this, also economically. The world just isn’t appropriately afraid of us anymore. For example, I have a British friend who lives in a tiny village with like 10 inhabitants somewhere in the English countryside. They don’t even have a gas station. I mean, petrol. But. They’ve got fibre optic cable. I meanwhile, live in one of the most industrialized regions of Germany, and I’ve been trying to get fibre optics for years, unsuccessfully. I still sit on 1 Megabit per second copper cables. They have faster internet on the international space station. And I consider myself lucky, because if you go a few kilometres down the street they have 5 MBs, on a good day. Yes that’s right. 5 MegaBits per second internet. In central Germany. Germany has the second lowest fibre optic cable coverage in the European Union. Only place that’s worse is Belgium, a country which half of the time doesn’t even have a government.

    The state of the German internet is pathetic. We’ve also been slow to switch to electric vehicles or heat pumps. The German reputation for being particularly environmentally friendly has been buried, in a biodegradable coffin, because we like to pretend. At the moment it’s something that we joke about inside the country, how crap things have become. Like a recent commentary in a major German newspaper about the malfunctioning German railway that was a disaster during the European Football Championship. The author concluded with saying, well, the most environmentally friendly train is one that doesn’t drive. Or the guy who bought an electric vehicle and couldn’t find a charging place that actually worked, who concluded that if you buy an electric vehicle in Germany also buy a dog so that you don’t have to walk home alone.

    Yes, it’s funny. But, you see, humour, especially sarcasm, is a way to cope with problems that we can’t solve, because why face reality if you can mock it instead. Which is why looking at the jokes people make is a good way to find out how healthy their country is. What do the Brits joke about? Well, he wants net migration to be at zero. Well, I want a bigger dick. That’s not much of a policy, is it? See, that’s how a healthy country looks like.

    What went wrong in Germany? There are many factors that played a role, but I think one stands out. What happened with the German railway for example is that the government “privatized” it in 94. This so-called privatization converted the previously nationalized company into a stock company. The share of stocks owned by the state is 100 percent. That’s some privatization don’t you think. In the same spirit, I really encourage you to watch whatever YouTube channel you like, so long as it’s mine.

    But really this pseudo-privatization isn’t the main problem. The main problem is that the German railway is financed mainly by state subsidies and was grossly underfunded for almost two decades. A lot of necessary repairs and upgrades were not done. Our trains are now so advanced, they’ve mastered time travel. You board in 2024 and arrive in 1995!

    They’re now trying to fix this, which is why there are constructions going on in half the country. And that’s what causing the constant delays. I have arrived at the point where I’m glad if a train is delayed because that means at least it’s going. Though I got even more lucky last time I attempted to take a train, because the drivers went on strike, and I had to go 8 kilometres by car. I got two speeding tickets, thanks for asking.

    The internet problems have a similar cause, lack of investment at the time when it was necessary. Instead of switching to fibre optics long ago, the German government supported upgrading the existing copper cable connections. Big mistake. They’re now trying to fix it, but we’re far behind.

    Same problem with the switch to electric vehicles or renewables. The Germans were too slow to make decisions. And that’s the common theme here. The Germans are too slow. Germans are stereotypical thorough and pay attention to detail and do everything very, very precisely. Yes, it’s a stereotype but I think it’s mostly true. I mean, it’s why you’re subscribed to this channel, right, because I can’t stand it if I’m 5 pixels off the middle of the screen. German precision.

    This dedication to thoroughness and precision is why the German industry is renowned for high quality products. It’s also in the past saved us from a lot of follies. Like the dot com bubble, Supersonic flights, Segways, spray cheese, you name it. Those were all cases where “lets wait and see” saved Germany time and money. But the world is now changing so fast that “let’s wait and see” is no longer an intelligent strategy. A good illustration for how German thoroughness can get in the way is what they call “Technologieoffenheit” over here. In English that’d be “technology openness” and it basically means that the government throws tax money at any idiotic idea they can find. It’s basically: Let a thousand flowers bloom, except that most of them are psychedelic mushrooms. For example those electronic highways that I talked about a while ago, the one where the test-project cost 150 million Euro for 20 kilometres and was used by a total of 9 trucks, though most of them were usually out of service for repairs. The idea of the electric highways is that trucks can recharge electric batteries from overhead cables while driving. It’s a nice idea, in principle. In practice the problem is, you know, there are no power lines alongside highways. It’s cheaper and faster to swap batteries in gas station.

    That’s the fast answer anyway. But the Germans are thorough, so they test and evaluate. And I am sure that in as little as a decade or so they will come to agree with what I just told you. We should also consider bringing back the horse and buggy. You know, just to be thorough. And I haven’t even yet mentioned the biggest idiocy of this technology openness, which was to phase out nuclear power and bank on a non-existing hydrogen economy.

    You see, Germany has a lot of energy-intensive industry that’s very difficult to decarbonize. About 80 percent of the energy in Germany still comes from fossil fuels. The obvious way to get off fossil fuels is nuclear power. I say it’s obvious because the technology exists already, we know that it works, and it would get the job done. But is it really the *best* way to decarbonize? Maybe not. And this is where the German thoroughness gets in the way. Because the German government thinks that if there *was* a hydrogen economy, then it’d be better to use that, instead of nuclear power. Hey, if pigs could fly, maybe they’d be more carbon friendly than airplanes. The German government has this crazy idea that we’ll store energy from renewables in hydrogen, which can then later be used for energy generation. The problem is, as I explained in several previous videos, hydrogen is difficult to deal with and inefficient as storage. I think it’ll be much more expensive than projected and make no commercial sense. And that’s why I expect the hydrogen bubble to burst in the next 5 years because 90 percent of the planned projects will not come into existence.

    It’s also quite ironic if you know that the explosion you see in the footage from the Fukushima accident is, erm, a hydrogen explosion.

    Now you might say, Sabine doesn’t know anything, and the hydrogen economy might come along just fine. Fair enough. But do you really want to bank the future of an entire country on the possibility that a so-far non-existing part of the economy will come into being within years. Seriously? Even if *you are willing to take that risk, how many companies do you think are willing to take it. All those hydrogen powered plants can also be run on methane, aka natural gas. If this hydrogen business doesn’t work out, Germany will get stuck on fossil fuels, and that is becoming increasingly unappealing for investors.

    I think the German government is making a big mistake. Banking on hydrogen is really delay game. It that tells us they believe climate change will magically go away. They’re slow, to realize that we can’t avoid decarbonization and the more we delay it, the more this country will go downhills.

    And that’s why I’m embarrassed to be German. Because the Germans are so slow. I said I never expected to say this. I said this not because I think so highly of Germany, but because I’ve never identified much with Germany in the first place. I’ve never been proud to be German. So why be embarrassed? Because I feel like I could have done more. Maybe I should have studied something more useful. Maybe I should have gone into politics. Maybe I should just have been a little bit louder. So here I am trying to be a little bit louder.

    Really I just want people to be afraid of my German accent again.

    That was a bit depressing wasn’t it?
    (ad)
    Thanks for watching, see you tomorrow.

  37. are german physicists this deluded, rhetorical, there is nothing wrong with fossil fuels, hydrogen might be a replacement for some small part of the energy system, eventually, climate change is driven by the big ball in the sky, first of all, I’m sure there are some imputs from emissions but they are small relatively speaking, and the academy

    you would think they would remember the Hindenberg when it comes to how hydrogen transport can go horribly wrong,

    how much have Klaus’s disciples infected the system, through the likes of larry fink, the seed pods are fully implanted, maybe it is aliens eh snow, the grays most likely

  38. this interesting offering shows some of the subjects we’ve discussed, the rise of nazi germany, the philosophy of jihad, in practice, among others, the essentials of nuclear weapons design

    ,https://www.amazon.com/My-Enemys-Enemy-Robert-Buettner/dp/1982124814

    this was written in 2019, but the way the Asp infiltrates into the country, is very similar to how a terror cell would do it,

    the aircraft in question, is much like the flying wing in the first avenger film

  39. Rufus T. Firefly:

    Thanks for formatting Sabine’s “rant” into text. I get so impatient with videos.

  40. Rufus, thanks for providing that. I see now that it wasn’t just about the trains.

    As for Germans being too slow, in the aggregate… hmm, I don’t know. Maybe. But I wonder if anyone at all is really fast enough these days to keep up.

  41. Phillip Sells,

    Regarding German slowness, I think what Sabine means is, “the perfect is the enemy of the good.”

    If Snow on Pine’s aliens are observing us humans they must be astounded that 70 years after connecting a nuclear reactor to a commercial power grid we still get less than 10% of our electricity from nuclear power.

  42. @Rufus:they must be astounded that… we still get less than 10% of our electricity from nuclear power.

    Only if they don’t know what coal is, and then they’ll be astounded by coal.

    In the OECD nations nuclear power has replaced oil generation but is not competitive with coal or hydro. The only one that went nuclear in a big way is France, which has little coal or hydro.

  43. Barry Meislin on July 8, 2024 at 2:34 pm said:
    Theoretical speculation on both dark matter and Kamala Harris juxtaposed in the same post.
    I didn’t know that was permitted….

    Doesn’t combining vacuum and vacuousness count?

  44. Philip, as a visitor to Germany several times per year, travelling exclusively by rail, I can report that the German rail system is not anywhere near as bad as Sabine reports. It is another case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Deutsche Bahn operates more than 40,000 train runs daily on its more than 33,300 kilometer-long, modern rail network. For the most part they are reliable, safe and comfortable. Repairs resulting in track closure usually take place on weekends and off peak hours in order to minimize disruption. Overall, I rate DB very high.

  45. Physics guy, Sabine is skeptical about all the buzz put into hydrogen as the future savior for our energy needs. Can you comment on the process summarized below? What are the chances of this process being developed on a commercial scale. As an investor would you make a stake in this company?

    https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/innovation/the-cheapest-and-safest-way-to-transport-hydrogen-silicon-based-liquid-carrier-requires-zero-energy-to-release-stored-h2/2-1-1396369

  46. Xylourgos, hello once more! That’s good about the trains. Do you think, if it’s a question of concentrated pessimism about the DB, that it could be certain lines or regions that make a worse impression than the rest? Maybe the complaints aren’t evenly distributed in that sense.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>