No wonder I always hated English classes!? Read recently that verbal communication isn’t even in the top ways of communicating, but can’t find that link now. Dated a foreign brain scientist some years back, and she said when world scientists gather that they have some kind of ‘Science English‘ (something like that) that they speak…I dunno. She didn’t have a resume – basically the same thing as a resume, IMHO, but scientists or doctors called them something else.
Very interesting. Word origins are fascinating. However, I think Neo put up a video a while back about the change in how pronunciations to create our Modern English. This happen, if I remember correctly, after Chaucer.
A side note: Many years ago while visiting London we took a walking tour (took lots over the years), don’t remember what the tour title was, but we ended up at the Coaching Inn where the Chaucer’s Pilgrims started from. It is still there.
Other side note: Our guide, a stand in for his Wife, was Edward Petherbridge, and Actor that started in a series call “Lord Peter Wimsey”. We had watched him on TV, and on the stage in London, so knew who he was. Great Fun.
But isn’t badly pronounced French just badly pronounced Latin, by the same argument?
I watched the “Great Courses” lectures on 1066 once upon a time. In the last lecture they talk quite a bit about the fusion of the languages and the unusual consequence that English often has two words for essentially the same thing. Thus, we simply have more words in our vocabulary to choose from. They speculate that this is why more poetry gets written in English than in any other language. I’ve never looked into whether that is true, but it sounds reasonable.
“Indeed, if we were to blindly register nonvoters and get them on the rolls, we would be distinctly aiding Trump’s quest,” Aaron Strauss wrote in the January memo…
“ “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
–James D. Nicoll”
Ciriculum vitae and it’s in all of higher ed these days.
I went to Canada for a job and ended up marrying, having kids, and staying for 20 years!
Now that I’m “back”, I realize one of the other benefits was mastering what I call “cereal-box French”… the roughly serviceable ability to read French, after reading the French-English equivalence of everything in the description of all commercial products and instruction manuals!
Although native English-speakers, my children went to French immersion schools, and read and speak fluent French (but with little chance to use it). From growing up with the metric system, they also have to rely heavily on Alexa to translate between ounces and millimeters, etc.
I am familiar with french in written form portuguese seems similar to spanish but not really
Noting this concern fully bloomed after the VP pick.
RFK Jr is a true Kennedy in the JFK/RFK mold. Rory and others in the clan (looking at you, Caroline) are KINOs.
MTG has the right idea about the traitor Mike Gallagher who is arranging his retirement date so his Republican district is not represented until the next Congress: expel the bastard early.
The only possible explanation for his quit date is that the Democrats got to Gallagher and paid him off
Gallagher gets backlash from GOP for leaving Congress April 19
WASHINGTON — Rep. Mike Gallagher, R-Green Bay, is facing criticism by fellow Republicans for the timing of his decision to leave Congress.
His planned departure on April 19 would be too late in the year to hold a special election to replace him, meaning a reliably-Republican seat will remain vacant the rest of the year.
One small point about the English (not us) and French. French was at least something that you could assume an English TV audience could understand. I get this from Benny Hill. While with other languages this wasn’t so. Whenever Hill did a sketch of, say, Germans or Swedes or Spanish, the language they spoke was a fake version of German, etc (“nine outten ten frauleins can nicht tell ze difference”), he actually had some sketches in very simple French. Simple enough that even I could (mostly) follow it.
Interesting sociological exercise: I’m a women’s BB fan (UConn) and have reffed youth soccer for 18 years. A FB article came up about Kim Mulkey, coach of LSU, and her known temper. Many BB coaches have short fuses, bur she’s the worse. I commented that if she acted that way on the soccer field, even at pro level, she would be ejected. I wondered why BB tolerates such behavior. That’s all I asked.
Well, the LSU fans jumped all over me. It got nasty with many calling me a pussy, wimp, sissie, etc. So, I started to look at the FB pages of the name callers. Every one of them is conservative and a Trump supporter with their FB page loudly declaring such. I’ve yet to find one who wasn’t.
Make of that what you will.
The post admittedly was working on a hit piece and refused to make it fair this has been known for a week
She may be the female bobby knight but they dont want the bezos to nudge them there
physicsguy:
Make of that what you will.
Sometimes it makes me want to drop the NPA and register as a Democrat. 🙂 🙂 🙂
However, am not on FB, but had steadily visited some serious Left-wing sites in the past — like Daily Kos for one — and they had WOKE mobs before WOKE became woke. Most were probably the quickest at banning humble me.
Will stick to NPA…
English is not a Romance language. French has been deeply corrupted through assimilated speakers.
Miguel, what makes the Warnock statement especially sad is that he’s a Christian pastor.
watched the “Great Courses” lectures on 1066 once upon a time. In the last lecture they talk quite a bit about the fusion of the languages and the unusual consequence that English often has two words for essentially the same thing. Thus, we simply have more words in our vocabulary to choose from.
I have seen this as well: The standard example is “aid and abet,” aid coming from French and abet coming from Middle English (though it turns out it came to English from Old Low Franconian and ultimately Latin). The story I heard was that in legal proceedings they would use two words for the same concept so that people with different backgrounds would understand the meaning.
I’ve also seen claims that Spanish has more words than English, but I think that is only because they conjugate their verbs much more than English does. Counting the number of words in a language is a pretty subjective exercise.
This video is right up my alley — juste dans mon allée.
I see English and French as kissin’ cousins. 1066 and all that. It sure makes my current job of learning French easier, leaving aside the challenges of French pronunciation.
No, English is not badly pronounced French. But we sure absorbed a lot of French, on top of the Latin also assimilated. It’s a beautiful thing.
It’s true that French was and still is a prestigious language. However, I wondered at the claim that H-dropping was an upper-class marker. The Cockney accent is well-known for H-dropping. Chat tells me:
________________________________________
The phenomenon of h-dropping in English can be traced back to the Middle English period (roughly 1150-1500), and it has been a feature of many regional dialects, not just Cockney. It’s more likely that the similarity between Cockney h-dropping and the silent “h” in French is a coincidence rather than a result of direct influence.
________________________________________
Nice ring to it. Parts of the terminal will need to be gold-plated, of course.
I hadn’t heard that rhyming in English poetry was due to French influence. Maybe. I’ll check into it.
Going back to my favorite French surrealist poems, which I only knew in English translation, I notice how much the alliteration sang in the French but was absent in English:
_________________________________________
Sous un second soleil de serins sauvages
[Beneath a second sun of wild canaries]
–André Breton, “They tell me that over there the beaches are black”
_________________________________________
Posted on instapundit, and Glen Reynolds follows up with, “But, of course, some people are unhappy about that.” He is entirely right.
I once took a beekeeping class simply because I knew nothing about it, and I didn’t like that – I never said I was normal. Anyway, the instructor was talking about the collapse of the bee population. A couple taking the class (who looked exactly as you’d expect) essentially said, “Because of global warming? It’s because of global warming isn’t it?”
To the instructor’s credit, he said, “We really don’t know. The problem is mites. They overwhelmed the bees within the last decade or so, and it’s a real problem.” Several members of the class began almost hectoring him about this. “Yes, but the mites must have come about because of global warming.” That sort of thing.
They really just wouldn’t let it go.
Any dispassionate observer could clearly see they wanted it to be global warming. They were obviously disappointed that the instructor wouldn’t budge.
Mike Plaiss:
I have a friend who keeps bees. He kindly gave me a jar of his honey. Quite delicious! A delicate flavor.
Turns out commercial honey is pasteurized. It’s sweet but has a hot harsh taste in comparison.
A potential shift in strategy by the Biden administration to keep in mind about the efforts in Ukraine.
“With U.S. and European aid to Ukraine now in serious jeopardy, the Biden administration and European officials are quietly shifting their focus from supporting Ukraine’s goal of total victory over Russia to improving its position in an eventual negotiation to end the war, according to a Biden administration official and a European diplomat based in Washington. Such a negotiation would likely mean giving up parts of Ukraine to Russia.”
Then during a congressional hearing Sen. Tommy Tuberville asks a couple of military officers, “Can Ukraine beat Russia?” “Would restoring Ukraine territory include Crimea”- the Admiral equivocates to ‘I’ll leave that to General Cavoli and the policy side.’ General Cavoli is NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe.
Fast forward to minute 3:40 for the back and forth.
The reality is it’s unlikely Ukraine will get all of it’s territory back– especially Crimea.
Ukraine has shifted some of it’s efforts to building defensive lines that can be defended against a potential Russian spring offensive. They’ve avoided this up to now because that’s not the tactic you use when you’re goal is pushing Russia out of Ukrainian territory.
portuguese seems similar to spanish but not really
Miguel cervantes:
You keep saying that. But really?
Portuguese is obviously much closer to Spanish than English.
Spanish and Portuguese are two separate languages, so sure they aren’t perfectly interchangeable. But I bet two such speakers could understand each other. Chat tells me:
_______________________________________
Spanish and Portuguese are closely related languages, both part of the Romance language family, which evolved from Latin. They share a significant amount of vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation features, which makes them relatively similar compared to languages from different families.
In terms of mutual intelligibility, speakers of Spanish and Portuguese can often understand each other to a certain extent, especially when it comes to written text, as the written forms of the two languages are quite similar. However, spoken communication can be more challenging due to differences in pronunciation and some vocabulary.
Portuguese speakers generally find it easier to understand Spanish than vice versa, possibly because Portuguese has more phonetic complexity and some additional sounds that are not present in Spanish. Nonetheless, with some effort and exposure, speakers of one language can usually learn to understand the other quite well, especially if they are familiar with the differences and similarities between the two languages.
_______________________________________
Different languages, but it’s not like a Spanish speaker and a French speaker, though both are close as Romance languages.
I’m thoroughly monolingual, yet I taught English as a Second Language (ESL) for a few years. All of my Spanish speakers said the closest thing to their own language was Italian, which they said they could kind-of-sort-of understand. When I asked, not Portuguese? They simply said, “no”. I’ll obviously defer to any native Spanish speakers here.
Brain E:
Not news that the Brandon junta isn’t serious about Ukrainian survival, or Taiwan, or Israel for that matter.
Regarding your strategic assessment of the need for fortifications; consider how long Bakhmut and Avdivhka held and the 450k + casualties Ukraine has inflicted on your man Vladdy.
Time will tell, the Ukrainians had fortifications and such resisting the Russians in Donbas and Lukansk since 2014. You remember, that little aggression before Vlad’s 2022 excellent adventure?
Isolationists are always ready to feed someone else to the crocodile.
It has been reported that the Ukraine/Taiwan/Israel funding is comming to a vote in the House next week. It is reported that part of the money will come from Russian frozen assets. I’m sure that you will be opposed and outraged by that?
I’ll obviously defer to any native Spanish speakers here.
Mike Plaiss:
Me too, though to a point.
I’m learning French and I’ve also become interested in general language issues. There are so many dimensions to language. I notice that when differences between languages are squashed to a one-dimensional metric, much is lost.
It may be, as Chat tells me, that the big difference between Spanish and Portuguese is auditory, however, much less so in the written form. How does one rate that?
I had no idea how vast a range of domains and skill levels were present in languages. Nothing is ever an apples to apples comparison.
This language evolution happens elsewhere. I always thought Indians spoke Hindi.
Actually, that’s the Sanskrit descendant language spoken around Delhi. There are numerous others — Bengali, Marathi, Gujarati, and so on. They’re related but not interchangeable and not always mutually comprehensible.
…not always mutually comprehensible.
Kate:
Though not mutually incomprehensible either.
There is an interesting three-cornered hat between Swedish, Danish and Norwegian. They sorta can get each other, but some pairs are more equal than others.
Yes, huxley, probably a similar situation.
In one of my books about the history of the English language is a story about WWII soldiers from northern England, where words and phrases brought by the Danes were still in use, being posted to Iceland, where Old Norse is still spoken. The English men were able to communicate to some extent immediately, and in just a few weeks were speaking fluently.
Seems to me that English and German have more cognates–if that’s the word for the same word for the same thing or close than, French and English.
From time to time, there’ll be a report about something in England and they’re talking with people out in the country or up in the North. The report footage has the locals’ side in subtitles.
Year or so back, a dozen soldiers were found in the field of the Battle of Camden, maybe. Most were colonists, one was a Brit. During the interment ceremony, there was a detail from the Brit’s regiment (after some amalgamations, obviously) which was Fraser’s Highland Regiment. One was interviewed. I wondered if there is a school for being barely intelligible in English.
I had a rudimentary Spanish class in 4th grade; learned how to count in Spanish. Then I took French from 5th through 12th grade. Much later in life, when I worked with a lot of Mexicans, I was struck by the similarity of Spanish to French. Many words are quite similar, but the accents of the words are completely different.
At another job I worked with a Russian woman. I complimented her on her English, which was almost accentless. She said it was like music: all about hearing the sounds precisely.
Somewhere (maybe here?) I heard that Russians and Ukrainians can understand each others’ languages, but not speak them.
At another job maybe ten years ago I was working with a Pole, and he started talking to a “Russian” who was actually Ukrainian. The Pole said he didn’t know either of those languages, but they managed to jabber at each other enough to hold a conversation.
“the Brandon junta isn’t serious about Ukrainian survival -om
It’s just the opposite. Those who understand this has to end with a cease fire are most interested in Ukraine’s survival.
As to the purported death/wounded figure of 415,000 (it’s up to 500,000 according to Zelensky) is likely exaggerated.
The Dept. of Defense puts the figure of Russian soldiers killed or wounded at 315,000, and an analysis reported by REFL, puts the killed estimate at more than 45,000. That would put the wounded figure around 270,000. Tragic figures.
Ukraine said recently they have lost 31,000 killed.
I am familiar with french in written form portuguese seems similar to spanish but not really
I had a Brazilian TA for a computer science course. We could more or less (ma’ o meno’) understand each other with his speaking Portuguese and my speaking Spanish. But I would not make the same claim regarding understanding Portuguese from Portugal. I can understand about every fifth word of an Amalia Rodrigues fado.
But Gallego/Galician, perhaps halfway between Spanish and Portuguese, I can pretty much to somewhat follow either written or spoken, but better spoken. (Julio Iglesias: Canto a Galicia .)
I get the impression that in comprehending written French, my knowing English helps me more than knowing Spanish. Which reminds me of seeing a video that said that of the Romance languages, French has the least in common with Latin.
I get the impression that native German speakers have an easier time of sounding fluent in English than other ESLs, which means the two languages have more similar ways of making sounds.
I once attended a concert of Handel songs in German. The program guide had both the German and English translations. For about five minutes I could follow both the singer and the German and English translations, until, exhausted, I gave up.
Ray+Van+Dune on April 1, 2024 at 12:57 pm
“they also have to rely heavily on Alexa to translate between ounces and millimeters, etc.” I suspect that Alexa is going to have a hard time doing that translation, … but we know what you meant [in English]. 🙂
Richard+Aubrey: “I wondered if there is a school for being barely intelligible in English.” I thought that school was called Post Modernism? Cognate to Wokism.
Seems to me that English and German have more cognates–if that’s the word for the same word for the same thing or close than, French and English.
Richard Aubrey:
Sure, English has its Germanic roots, so there are plenty of Germanic cognates, especially for common everyday words like bread, but French still wins, particularly for more modern words. According to the video neo links, it’s 29% French vs 26% Germanic roots for English:
It’s more lopsided when one considers the 29% of Latin roots for English, which are mostly common to French as well.
While learning French I am astonished and relieved how easy it is to see the French/Latin cognates in English (I had four years of Latin in parochial school), which I would argue are indeed twice as common as the Germanic.
The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine
I don’t think so, they have always been ambivalent and have worked to keep Ukraine from attacking Russia itself. Remember, they offered to help Zelensky out of the country when the Russians attacked. My sense is that they counted on a quick Russian victory that would end the matter, the Ukrainian resistance was an embarrassment. Now they are stuck in the middle of an ongoing war that will probably run a few more years. The Biden policy has been muddled ever since the early failure of the SMO and has no clear aim. I think they would happily toss Ukraine under the bus if it helped elect Biden, Ukraine is a distraction.
We often forget that France was the major power and French the major language of Europe off and on for centuries.
As the video notes, Richard the Lionheart (King of England 1189–99) spoke French and barely a word of English.
Vive la France!
@ Eeyore > two commenters at the RobWords video made the same remark; it’s rather obvious but still funny.
@ rbj1 > the epigram you quote was cited by a commenter who encountered it in a Terry Pratchett novel; thank you for the correct attribution.
@ huxley > also in the video comments was the observation that, if you did not know the French word for something, just say the English word with a French accent and you will often be correct.
I recommend Rob’s video about how English and French dropped different letters to get two versions of an originally-French word.
In re the dropped haitches — upper or lower class?
Perhaps, at the time of French influence, the areas Rob notes were indeed upper class, but time and tide happeneth to all men, and also to all urbs, so that the same areas are now lower class, but the Hs are still dropped out of cultural habit.
CHAPTERS:
00:01:07 Introduction – what’s happened since the last conversation
00:01:55 What we’re still getting wrong about Vladimir Putin
00:03:39 Russia crimes – using Ecocide and Energy as Weapons if war
00:06:14 The grey fleet breaking oil sanctions and threatening disaster
00:11:29 Ukraine’s revolution in military tactics in the air and at sea
00:14:17 Has siege of Crimea begun, and will it become untenable for Russia
00:16:25 The failing Western strategy of extreme ‘escalation manangement’
00:22:29 How has Ukraine still held the line, depite ammunition famine
00:29:42 Why was Jake Sullivan in Kyiv, and does it involve appeasement?
00:30:32 We are giving Putin signals thate he can act with total impunity
00:36:15 What are immediate requirements of Ukraine and how can we meet them?
00:40:41 Is the strategy of ‘risk management’ built on incorrect assumptions?
00:43:51 Western strategy increases global risk of conflict and chaos
@ Eeyore > ” French was at least something that you could assume an English TV audience could understand”
I read a lot of books by English authors back in the 1960s (Christie and Sayers especially), and they often dropped in French words or entire paragraphs with the obvious expectation that their audience would have no trouble understanding them.
Not having the internet back then, I had to make do with dictionaries and mostly just skipped over the long sections, but I enjoyed the feeling of being “cultured.”
In re the dropped haitches — upper or lower class?
Perhaps, at the time of French influence, the areas Rob notes were indeed upper class, but time and tide happeneth to all men, and also to all urbs, so that the same areas are now lower class, but the Hs are still dropped out of cultural habit.
AesopFan:
I can buy that.
I also wonder, humans being as aspirational as we are, whether thems lower-class types weren’t putting on a bit o’ class to impress the ladies.
I think of “bogus” and “excellent,” fancy words, adopted by 90s American teens as their superlatives of choice.
I read a lot of books by English authors back in the 1960s (Christie and Sayers especially), and they often dropped in French words or entire paragraphs with the obvious expectation that their audience would have no trouble understanding them.
Maybe locking Bobby out of the primaries and denying him Secret Service protection wasn’t a good idea after all.
@ huxley – you live in Albuquerque IIRC – looks like your PD is not as woke as some others. Sounds like they have to advertise to the alleged perp that he is not being chased just for the fun of it. (One of many reports on the web today.)
“The incident occurred “outside a Walgreens on Coors and Central,” KRQE reported. An officer had just gotten his horse out of its trailer when someone alerted them to an alleged shoplifter and the chase was on.
KATV noted that the alleged shoplifter refused the officer’s orders to stop and ran out onto the busy roadway, at which point two other mounted officers joined in the attempted apprehension”
That made me wonder if NM had something akin to the Texas Rangers, and they do, or did — not really a surprise, given the similarities in environment and history.
Founded today in 1905 (did they do April Fool’s back then?)
https://socorro-history.org/HISTORY/PH_History/201105_nm_rangers.pdf
“Finally, on April 1, the formation of the police
force was announced in area newspapers,
including the Socorro Chieftain. And it was
exciting news indeed, especially for Socorro. New
Mexico’s first ranger police unit, officially called
the New Mexico Mounted Police, or NMMP,
would be headquartered in Socorro.
John Fullerton, former county assessor, was
appointed by the governor to be the captain.
…
Apparently, the men didn’t much care for being
called mounted policemen. They were rangers and
wanted to be called rangers. It wasn’t long before
the unit became known throughout New Mexico
as “Fullerton’s Rangers.”
Each ranger provided his own horse, sixshooter weapon, and other items required on the trail. The Territory provided each man with a
Winchester rifle. Horses killed in the line of duty
were replaced by the Territory. When an arrest
was made, the Mounted Police would turn their
prisoners over to the nearest sheriff or deputy.
The Fullerton Rangers did not have uniforms.
They did, however, don a badge — a five-point
brass star embossed with a galloping horse and
the words “New Mexico Mounted Police.” This
badge was used until 1912 statehood, when the
star was changed to a shield design.”
@ the AI Discussion Subgroup aka huxley’s rangers: I think you will enjoy this post by Glenn Reynolds. He delves into Vinge’s views on future tech, and also Clarke’s.
https://instapundit.substack.com/p/rip-vernor-vinge
“Vernor Vinge has died, but even in his absence, the rest of us are living in his world. In particular, we’re living in a world that looks increasingly like the 2025 of his 2007 novel Rainbows End. For better or for worse.”
Move over Age of Reason.
Take a hike, Age of Ideology.
Get off my lawn, Age of Faith.
Ladies and gentlemen—now THAT’s a subversive opening, ain’t it!—we proudly present…the…Age of Rationalization!
Hmmm, London coppers no doubt vying for the presidency of some of America’s most prestigious universities. (Must have heard there are some openings….)
…Or maybe it’s just that we’re living in the Age of Context…
Barry Meislin, swastikas need to be taken in context when they’re on Hindu-owned vehicles on every Indian road. It’s a good luck sign, nothing to do with Nazis, and the drivers are crazy enough that luck is needed. Not, however, in London.
A number of years ago I spent some time translating “Das Mantidae” by Prof Giglio-Tos. It was an in depth book about identifying mantids. Written in French by an Italian professor, published by a German firm.
Got to where I could read technical French fairly well. Not a thing in conversational and I certainly never learned to speak any.
Speaking-wise – German and a little Spanish. Both atrophied.
As for English being mostly French? I give ne’ fig, ne’ fart.
Re: Vernor Vinge / New Mexico police
AesopFan:
All hail Vernor Vinge for seeing the singularity and to Ray Kurzweil for doing his phenomenal recon!
Albuquerque has a serious homeless/drug/crime problem, but it hasn’t given up. I see a lot more fences and security happening, so its not Portland … yet.
I kinda think it won’t that go far here because there’s not enough money for voters and lawmakers to afford going Full Blue Delusional.
Leave a Reply
HTML tags allowed in your
comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
No wonder I always hated English classes!? Read recently that verbal communication isn’t even in the top ways of communicating, but can’t find that link now. Dated a foreign brain scientist some years back, and she said when world scientists gather that they have some kind of ‘Science English‘ (something like that) that they speak…I dunno. She didn’t have a resume – basically the same thing as a resume, IMHO, but scientists or doctors called them something else.
Very interesting. Word origins are fascinating. However, I think Neo put up a video a while back about the change in how pronunciations to create our Modern English. This happen, if I remember correctly, after Chaucer.
A side note: Many years ago while visiting London we took a walking tour (took lots over the years), don’t remember what the tour title was, but we ended up at the Coaching Inn where the Chaucer’s Pilgrims started from. It is still there.
Other side note: Our guide, a stand in for his Wife, was Edward Petherbridge, and Actor that started in a series call “Lord Peter Wimsey”. We had watched him on TV, and on the stage in London, so knew who he was. Great Fun.
But isn’t badly pronounced French just badly pronounced Latin, by the same argument?
I watched the “Great Courses” lectures on 1066 once upon a time. In the last lecture they talk quite a bit about the fusion of the languages and the unusual consequence that English often has two words for essentially the same thing. Thus, we simply have more words in our vocabulary to choose from. They speculate that this is why more poetry gets written in English than in any other language. I’ve never looked into whether that is true, but it sounds reasonable.
Excellent point, Eeyore. 🙂
Karimi, maybe they called it a “CV”?
Iranian military leader is ‘killed’ alongside five others as building next to embassy in Damascus is destroyed in missile attack – as state media accuses Israel of being behind airstrike — another Great shot!!!
Dem Memo Says New Voter Push Could Help Trump
J.K. Rowling Dares Scottish Police to Arrest Her over Transgender Criticism as Hate Crime Law Takes Effect – Begone Mother Nature! It should be a Capital Crime for humans to make Laws…
SHIREHOME: it was longer than “CV” – but maybe something like C___ V___?
OK – Curriculum Vitae – from SHIREHOME’s “CV” tip…
“ “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
–James D. Nicoll”
Ciriculum vitae and it’s in all of higher ed these days.
I went to Canada for a job and ended up marrying, having kids, and staying for 20 years!
Now that I’m “back”, I realize one of the other benefits was mastering what I call “cereal-box French”… the roughly serviceable ability to read French, after reading the French-English equivalence of everything in the description of all commercial products and instruction manuals!
Although native English-speakers, my children went to French immersion schools, and read and speak fluent French (but with little chance to use it). From growing up with the metric system, they also have to rely heavily on Alexa to translate between ounces and millimeters, etc.
I am familiar with french in written form portuguese seems similar to spanish but not really
Rory Kennedy ‘concerned’ her brother’s candidacy could hand Trump 2024 victory
Noting this concern fully bloomed after the VP pick.
RFK Jr is a true Kennedy in the JFK/RFK mold. Rory and others in the clan (looking at you, Caroline) are KINOs.
MTG has the right idea about the traitor Mike Gallagher who is arranging his retirement date so his Republican district is not represented until the next Congress: expel the bastard early.
The only possible explanation for his quit date is that the Democrats got to Gallagher and paid him off
https://spectrumnews1.com/wi/milwaukee/news/2024/03/25/gallagher-exit-gop-backlash
Gallagher gets backlash from GOP for leaving Congress April 19
WASHINGTON — Rep. Mike Gallagher, R-Green Bay, is facing criticism by fellow Republicans for the timing of his decision to leave Congress.
His planned departure on April 19 would be too late in the year to hold a special election to replace him, meaning a reliably-Republican seat will remain vacant the rest of the year.
One small point about the English (not us) and French. French was at least something that you could assume an English TV audience could understand. I get this from Benny Hill. While with other languages this wasn’t so. Whenever Hill did a sketch of, say, Germans or Swedes or Spanish, the language they spoke was a fake version of German, etc (“nine outten ten frauleins can nicht tell ze difference”), he actually had some sketches in very simple French. Simple enough that even I could (mostly) follow it.
One of the wurst
https://www.theblaze.com/news/warnock-criticizes-johnson-easter-trans-day-visibility
Interesting sociological exercise: I’m a women’s BB fan (UConn) and have reffed youth soccer for 18 years. A FB article came up about Kim Mulkey, coach of LSU, and her known temper. Many BB coaches have short fuses, bur she’s the worse. I commented that if she acted that way on the soccer field, even at pro level, she would be ejected. I wondered why BB tolerates such behavior. That’s all I asked.
Well, the LSU fans jumped all over me. It got nasty with many calling me a pussy, wimp, sissie, etc. So, I started to look at the FB pages of the name callers. Every one of them is conservative and a Trump supporter with their FB page loudly declaring such. I’ve yet to find one who wasn’t.
Make of that what you will.
The post admittedly was working on a hit piece and refused to make it fair this has been known for a week
She may be the female bobby knight but they dont want the bezos to nudge them there
physicsguy:
Sometimes it makes me want to drop the NPA and register as a Democrat. 🙂 🙂 🙂
However, am not on FB, but had steadily visited some serious Left-wing sites in the past — like Daily Kos for one — and they had WOKE mobs before WOKE became woke. Most were probably the quickest at banning humble me.
Will stick to NPA…
English is not a Romance language. French has been deeply corrupted through assimilated speakers.
Miguel, what makes the Warnock statement especially sad is that he’s a Christian pastor.
Ah now i see
https://twitter.com/amrenewcitizen/status/1774806979367641474
No hes not hes a slumlord and commie radical
watched the “Great Courses” lectures on 1066 once upon a time. In the last lecture they talk quite a bit about the fusion of the languages and the unusual consequence that English often has two words for essentially the same thing. Thus, we simply have more words in our vocabulary to choose from.
I have seen this as well: The standard example is “aid and abet,” aid coming from French and abet coming from Middle English (though it turns out it came to English from Old Low Franconian and ultimately Latin). The story I heard was that in legal proceedings they would use two words for the same concept so that people with different backgrounds would understand the meaning.
I’ve also seen claims that Spanish has more words than English, but I think that is only because they conjugate their verbs much more than English does. Counting the number of words in a language is a pretty subjective exercise.
This video is right up my alley — juste dans mon allée.
I see English and French as kissin’ cousins. 1066 and all that. It sure makes my current job of learning French easier, leaving aside the challenges of French pronunciation.
No, English is not badly pronounced French. But we sure absorbed a lot of French, on top of the Latin also assimilated. It’s a beautiful thing.
It’s true that French was and still is a prestigious language. However, I wondered at the claim that H-dropping was an upper-class marker. The Cockney accent is well-known for H-dropping. Chat tells me:
________________________________________
The phenomenon of h-dropping in English can be traced back to the Middle English period (roughly 1150-1500), and it has been a feature of many regional dialects, not just Cockney. It’s more likely that the similarity between Cockney h-dropping and the silent “h” in French is a coincidence rather than a result of direct influence.
________________________________________
I’m not so sure, but it’s fun to speculate.
A brilliant idea whose time has come:
Dulles International -> DJT International
Nice ring to it. Parts of the terminal will need to be gold-plated, of course.
I hadn’t heard that rhyming in English poetry was due to French influence. Maybe. I’ll check into it.
Going back to my favorite French surrealist poems, which I only knew in English translation, I notice how much the alliteration sang in the French but was absent in English:
_________________________________________
Sous un second soleil de serins sauvages
[Beneath a second sun of wild canaries]
–André Breton, “They tell me that over there the beaches are black”
_________________________________________
Maybe you had to be there…
Ok, believe it or not I have a story about this:
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2024/03/bees-are-back.html?m=1
Posted on instapundit, and Glen Reynolds follows up with, “But, of course, some people are unhappy about that.” He is entirely right.
I once took a beekeeping class simply because I knew nothing about it, and I didn’t like that – I never said I was normal. Anyway, the instructor was talking about the collapse of the bee population. A couple taking the class (who looked exactly as you’d expect) essentially said, “Because of global warming? It’s because of global warming isn’t it?”
To the instructor’s credit, he said, “We really don’t know. The problem is mites. They overwhelmed the bees within the last decade or so, and it’s a real problem.” Several members of the class began almost hectoring him about this. “Yes, but the mites must have come about because of global warming.” That sort of thing.
They really just wouldn’t let it go.
Any dispassionate observer could clearly see they wanted it to be global warming. They were obviously disappointed that the instructor wouldn’t budge.
Mike Plaiss:
I have a friend who keeps bees. He kindly gave me a jar of his honey. Quite delicious! A delicate flavor.
Turns out commercial honey is pasteurized. It’s sweet but has a hot harsh taste in comparison.
A potential shift in strategy by the Biden administration to keep in mind about the efforts in Ukraine.
The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/27/biden-endgame-ukraine-00133211
Then during a congressional hearing Sen. Tommy Tuberville asks a couple of military officers, “Can Ukraine beat Russia?” “Would restoring Ukraine territory include Crimea”- the Admiral equivocates to ‘I’ll leave that to General Cavoli and the policy side.’ General Cavoli is NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe.
Fast forward to minute 3:40 for the back and forth.
Tommy Tuberville Asks Top US Admiral Point Blank: ‘Can Ukraine Beat Russia?’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iiIamw-j3M
The reality is it’s unlikely Ukraine will get all of it’s territory back– especially Crimea.
Ukraine has shifted some of it’s efforts to building defensive lines that can be defended against a potential Russian spring offensive. They’ve avoided this up to now because that’s not the tactic you use when you’re goal is pushing Russia out of Ukrainian territory.
portuguese seems similar to spanish but not really
Miguel cervantes:
You keep saying that. But really?
Portuguese is obviously much closer to Spanish than English.
Spanish and Portuguese are two separate languages, so sure they aren’t perfectly interchangeable. But I bet two such speakers could understand each other. Chat tells me:
_______________________________________
Spanish and Portuguese are closely related languages, both part of the Romance language family, which evolved from Latin. They share a significant amount of vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation features, which makes them relatively similar compared to languages from different families.
In terms of mutual intelligibility, speakers of Spanish and Portuguese can often understand each other to a certain extent, especially when it comes to written text, as the written forms of the two languages are quite similar. However, spoken communication can be more challenging due to differences in pronunciation and some vocabulary.
Portuguese speakers generally find it easier to understand Spanish than vice versa, possibly because Portuguese has more phonetic complexity and some additional sounds that are not present in Spanish. Nonetheless, with some effort and exposure, speakers of one language can usually learn to understand the other quite well, especially if they are familiar with the differences and similarities between the two languages.
_______________________________________
Different languages, but it’s not like a Spanish speaker and a French speaker, though both are close as Romance languages.
I’m thoroughly monolingual, yet I taught English as a Second Language (ESL) for a few years. All of my Spanish speakers said the closest thing to their own language was Italian, which they said they could kind-of-sort-of understand. When I asked, not Portuguese? They simply said, “no”. I’ll obviously defer to any native Spanish speakers here.
Brain E:
Not news that the Brandon junta isn’t serious about Ukrainian survival, or Taiwan, or Israel for that matter.
Regarding your strategic assessment of the need for fortifications; consider how long Bakhmut and Avdivhka held and the 450k + casualties Ukraine has inflicted on your man Vladdy.
Time will tell, the Ukrainians had fortifications and such resisting the Russians in Donbas and Lukansk since 2014. You remember, that little aggression before Vlad’s 2022 excellent adventure?
Isolationists are always ready to feed someone else to the crocodile.
It has been reported that the Ukraine/Taiwan/Israel funding is comming to a vote in the House next week. It is reported that part of the money will come from Russian frozen assets. I’m sure that you will be opposed and outraged by that?
I’ll obviously defer to any native Spanish speakers here.
Mike Plaiss:
Me too, though to a point.
I’m learning French and I’ve also become interested in general language issues. There are so many dimensions to language. I notice that when differences between languages are squashed to a one-dimensional metric, much is lost.
It may be, as Chat tells me, that the big difference between Spanish and Portuguese is auditory, however, much less so in the written form. How does one rate that?
I had no idea how vast a range of domains and skill levels were present in languages. Nothing is ever an apples to apples comparison.
This language evolution happens elsewhere. I always thought Indians spoke Hindi.
Actually, that’s the Sanskrit descendant language spoken around Delhi. There are numerous others — Bengali, Marathi, Gujarati, and so on. They’re related but not interchangeable and not always mutually comprehensible.
…not always mutually comprehensible.
Kate:
Though not mutually incomprehensible either.
There is an interesting three-cornered hat between Swedish, Danish and Norwegian. They sorta can get each other, but some pairs are more equal than others.
Yes, huxley, probably a similar situation.
In one of my books about the history of the English language is a story about WWII soldiers from northern England, where words and phrases brought by the Danes were still in use, being posted to Iceland, where Old Norse is still spoken. The English men were able to communicate to some extent immediately, and in just a few weeks were speaking fluently.
Seems to me that English and German have more cognates–if that’s the word for the same word for the same thing or close than, French and English.
From time to time, there’ll be a report about something in England and they’re talking with people out in the country or up in the North. The report footage has the locals’ side in subtitles.
Year or so back, a dozen soldiers were found in the field of the Battle of Camden, maybe. Most were colonists, one was a Brit. During the interment ceremony, there was a detail from the Brit’s regiment (after some amalgamations, obviously) which was Fraser’s Highland Regiment. One was interviewed. I wondered if there is a school for being barely intelligible in English.
I had a rudimentary Spanish class in 4th grade; learned how to count in Spanish. Then I took French from 5th through 12th grade. Much later in life, when I worked with a lot of Mexicans, I was struck by the similarity of Spanish to French. Many words are quite similar, but the accents of the words are completely different.
At another job I worked with a Russian woman. I complimented her on her English, which was almost accentless. She said it was like music: all about hearing the sounds precisely.
Somewhere (maybe here?) I heard that Russians and Ukrainians can understand each others’ languages, but not speak them.
At another job maybe ten years ago I was working with a Pole, and he started talking to a “Russian” who was actually Ukrainian. The Pole said he didn’t know either of those languages, but they managed to jabber at each other enough to hold a conversation.
“the Brandon junta isn’t serious about Ukrainian survival -om
It’s just the opposite. Those who understand this has to end with a cease fire are most interested in Ukraine’s survival.
As to the purported death/wounded figure of 415,000 (it’s up to 500,000 according to Zelensky) is likely exaggerated.
The Dept. of Defense puts the figure of Russian soldiers killed or wounded at 315,000, and an analysis reported by REFL, puts the killed estimate at more than 45,000. That would put the wounded figure around 270,000. Tragic figures.
Ukraine said recently they have lost 31,000 killed.
More Than 45,000 Russian Soldiers Believed Killed Since Start Of Ukraine War
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-war-deaths-ukraine-45000/32828776.html
31,000 Ukraine troops killed in Russia’s invasion, Zelenskyy says
https://www.politico.eu/article/31000-ukraine-troops-killed-in-russias-invasion-zelenskyy-says/
Miguel cervantes
I had a Brazilian TA for a computer science course. We could more or less (ma’ o meno’) understand each other with his speaking Portuguese and my speaking Spanish. But I would not make the same claim regarding understanding Portuguese from Portugal. I can understand about every fifth word of an Amalia Rodrigues fado.
But Gallego/Galician, perhaps halfway between Spanish and Portuguese, I can pretty much to somewhat follow either written or spoken, but better spoken. (Julio Iglesias: Canto a Galicia .)
I get the impression that in comprehending written French, my knowing English helps me more than knowing Spanish. Which reminds me of seeing a video that said that of the Romance languages, French has the least in common with Latin.
I get the impression that native German speakers have an easier time of sounding fluent in English than other ESLs, which means the two languages have more similar ways of making sounds.
I once attended a concert of Handel songs in German. The program guide had both the German and English translations. For about five minutes I could follow both the singer and the German and English translations, until, exhausted, I gave up.
Ray+Van+Dune on April 1, 2024 at 12:57 pm
“they also have to rely heavily on Alexa to translate between ounces and millimeters, etc.” I suspect that Alexa is going to have a hard time doing that translation, … but we know what you meant [in English]. 🙂
Richard+Aubrey: “I wondered if there is a school for being barely intelligible in English.” I thought that school was called Post Modernism? Cognate to Wokism.
Seems to me that English and German have more cognates–if that’s the word for the same word for the same thing or close than, French and English.
Richard Aubrey:
Sure, English has its Germanic roots, so there are plenty of Germanic cognates, especially for common everyday words like bread, but French still wins, particularly for more modern words. According to the video neo links, it’s 29% French vs 26% Germanic roots for English:
–“Is English just badly pronounced French?” (10:15)
https://youtu.be/TUL29y0vJ8Q?t=615
It’s more lopsided when one considers the 29% of Latin roots for English, which are mostly common to French as well.
While learning French I am astonished and relieved how easy it is to see the French/Latin cognates in English (I had four years of Latin in parochial school), which I would argue are indeed twice as common as the Germanic.
The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine
I don’t think so, they have always been ambivalent and have worked to keep Ukraine from attacking Russia itself. Remember, they offered to help Zelensky out of the country when the Russians attacked. My sense is that they counted on a quick Russian victory that would end the matter, the Ukrainian resistance was an embarrassment. Now they are stuck in the middle of an ongoing war that will probably run a few more years. The Biden policy has been muddled ever since the early failure of the SMO and has no clear aim. I think they would happily toss Ukraine under the bus if it helped elect Biden, Ukraine is a distraction.
We often forget that France was the major power and French the major language of Europe off and on for centuries.
As the video notes, Richard the Lionheart (King of England 1189–99) spoke French and barely a word of English.
Vive la France!
@ Eeyore > two commenters at the RobWords video made the same remark; it’s rather obvious but still funny.
@ rbj1 > the epigram you quote was cited by a commenter who encountered it in a Terry Pratchett novel; thank you for the correct attribution.
@ huxley > also in the video comments was the observation that, if you did not know the French word for something, just say the English word with a French accent and you will often be correct.
I recommend Rob’s video about how English and French dropped different letters to get two versions of an originally-French word.
In re the dropped haitches — upper or lower class?
Perhaps, at the time of French influence, the areas Rob notes were indeed upper class, but time and tide happeneth to all men, and also to all urbs, so that the same areas are now lower class, but the Hs are still dropped out of cultural habit.
https://theconversation.com/haitch-or-aitch-how-a-humble-letter-was-held-hostage-by-historical-haughtiness-97184
Here is Ben Hodges making the case for Ukraine.
Ben Hodges – The Siege of Crimea has Begun as Ukraine Takes Control over the Black Sea and Coastline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34SP5GvCNdk
CHAPTERS:
00:01:07 Introduction – what’s happened since the last conversation
00:01:55 What we’re still getting wrong about Vladimir Putin
00:03:39 Russia crimes – using Ecocide and Energy as Weapons if war
00:06:14 The grey fleet breaking oil sanctions and threatening disaster
00:11:29 Ukraine’s revolution in military tactics in the air and at sea
00:14:17 Has siege of Crimea begun, and will it become untenable for Russia
00:16:25 The failing Western strategy of extreme ‘escalation manangement’
00:22:29 How has Ukraine still held the line, depite ammunition famine
00:29:42 Why was Jake Sullivan in Kyiv, and does it involve appeasement?
00:30:32 We are giving Putin signals thate he can act with total impunity
00:36:15 What are immediate requirements of Ukraine and how can we meet them?
00:40:41 Is the strategy of ‘risk management’ built on incorrect assumptions?
00:43:51 Western strategy increases global risk of conflict and chaos
@ Eeyore > ” French was at least something that you could assume an English TV audience could understand”
I read a lot of books by English authors back in the 1960s (Christie and Sayers especially), and they often dropped in French words or entire paragraphs with the obvious expectation that their audience would have no trouble understanding them.
Not having the internet back then, I had to make do with dictionaries and mostly just skipped over the long sections, but I enjoyed the feeling of being “cultured.”
In re the dropped haitches — upper or lower class?
Perhaps, at the time of French influence, the areas Rob notes were indeed upper class, but time and tide happeneth to all men, and also to all urbs, so that the same areas are now lower class, but the Hs are still dropped out of cultural habit.
AesopFan:
I can buy that.
I also wonder, humans being as aspirational as we are, whether thems lower-class types weren’t putting on a bit o’ class to impress the ladies.
I think of “bogus” and “excellent,” fancy words, adopted by 90s American teens as their superlatives of choice.
I read a lot of books by English authors back in the 1960s (Christie and Sayers especially), and they often dropped in French words or entire paragraphs with the obvious expectation that their audience would have no trouble understanding them.
AesopFan:
Tolstoy and Uncle Aldous ditto.
Or idem as I just learned today.
RFK Jr: Biden Is A Bigger Threat To Democracy Than Trump
Maybe locking Bobby out of the primaries and denying him Secret Service protection wasn’t a good idea after all.
@ huxley – you live in Albuquerque IIRC – looks like your PD is not as woke as some others. Sounds like they have to advertise to the alleged perp that he is not being chased just for the fun of it. (One of many reports on the web today.)
https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2024/04/01/watch-officers-horseback-chase-alleged-shoplifter/
“The incident occurred “outside a Walgreens on Coors and Central,” KRQE reported. An officer had just gotten his horse out of its trailer when someone alerted them to an alleged shoplifter and the chase was on.
KATV noted that the alleged shoplifter refused the officer’s orders to stop and ran out onto the busy roadway, at which point two other mounted officers joined in the attempted apprehension”
That made me wonder if NM had something akin to the Texas Rangers, and they do, or did — not really a surprise, given the similarities in environment and history.
Founded today in 1905 (did they do April Fool’s back then?)
https://socorro-history.org/HISTORY/PH_History/201105_nm_rangers.pdf
“Finally, on April 1, the formation of the police
force was announced in area newspapers,
including the Socorro Chieftain. And it was
exciting news indeed, especially for Socorro. New
Mexico’s first ranger police unit, officially called
the New Mexico Mounted Police, or NMMP,
would be headquartered in Socorro.
John Fullerton, former county assessor, was
appointed by the governor to be the captain.
…
Apparently, the men didn’t much care for being
called mounted policemen. They were rangers and
wanted to be called rangers. It wasn’t long before
the unit became known throughout New Mexico
as “Fullerton’s Rangers.”
Each ranger provided his own horse, sixshooter weapon, and other items required on the trail. The Territory provided each man with a
Winchester rifle. Horses killed in the line of duty
were replaced by the Territory. When an arrest
was made, the Mounted Police would turn their
prisoners over to the nearest sheriff or deputy.
The Fullerton Rangers did not have uniforms.
They did, however, don a badge — a five-point
brass star embossed with a galloping horse and
the words “New Mexico Mounted Police.” This
badge was used until 1912 statehood, when the
star was changed to a shield design.”
@ the AI Discussion Subgroup aka huxley’s rangers: I think you will enjoy this post by Glenn Reynolds. He delves into Vinge’s views on future tech, and also Clarke’s.
https://instapundit.substack.com/p/rip-vernor-vinge
“Vernor Vinge has died, but even in his absence, the rest of us are living in his world. In particular, we’re living in a world that looks increasingly like the 2025 of his 2007 novel Rainbows End. For better or for worse.”
Move over Age of Reason.
Take a hike, Age of Ideology.
Get off my lawn, Age of Faith.
Ladies and gentlemen—now THAT’s a subversive opening, ain’t it!—we proudly present…the…Age of Rationalization!
“London police officer claims ‘swastikas need to be taken in context’ “—
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/387773
Hmmm, London coppers no doubt vying for the presidency of some of America’s most prestigious universities. (Must have heard there are some openings….)
…Or maybe it’s just that we’re living in the Age of Context…
Barry Meislin, swastikas need to be taken in context when they’re on Hindu-owned vehicles on every Indian road. It’s a good luck sign, nothing to do with Nazis, and the drivers are crazy enough that luck is needed. Not, however, in London.
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/teaneck/2024/04/01/demonstrations-outside-teaneck-nj-synagogue-over-israel-gaza-war/73173689007/
==
https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1774952675517649023?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1774957820884275326%7Ctwgr%5E32b893ed7e7d845811a8597812ae64392520913d%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fblazingcatfur.ca%2F2024%2F04%2F02%2Fwtf-2126%2F
==
Diversity is our strength.
A number of years ago I spent some time translating “Das Mantidae” by Prof Giglio-Tos. It was an in depth book about identifying mantids. Written in French by an Italian professor, published by a German firm.
Got to where I could read technical French fairly well. Not a thing in conversational and I certainly never learned to speak any.
Speaking-wise – German and a little Spanish. Both atrophied.
As for English being mostly French? I give ne’ fig, ne’ fart.
Re: Vernor Vinge / New Mexico police
AesopFan:
All hail Vernor Vinge for seeing the singularity and to Ray Kurzweil for doing his phenomenal recon!
Albuquerque has a serious homeless/drug/crime problem, but it hasn’t given up. I see a lot more fences and security happening, so its not Portland … yet.
I kinda think it won’t that go far here because there’s not enough money for voters and lawmakers to afford going Full Blue Delusional.