A few more thoughts about DeSantis’ candidacy, withdrawal, and endorsement
It doesn’t surprise me that DeSantis endorsed Trump, because his policies were mostly in line with Trump’s – and better in some ways, such as COVID lockdowns. But when DeSantis challenged Trump as a younger, although less humorous and roguish version, he was lied about by Trump and Trump forces in order to make sure people didn’t notice the similarities.
This effort was immediately successful, something I noticed online. Almost instantaneously, enormous numbers of commenters would come here and elsewhere all around the right side of the blogosphere and on right media outlets spreading the anti-DeSantis word. It was spearheaded by various pro-Trump blogs, and I played whack-a-mole for a while against it: no, DeSantis hadn’t said this or that they were alleging he’d said. Yes, he really had made a strong statement about this or that they were alleging he hadn’t spoken about. And so on and so forth in that vein.
But very early in the game it became apparent that the combination of three things were coming together to make sure the DeSantis campaign would never get off the ground: (1) this aforementioned campaign of lies against him (2) the extreme loyalty of many Trump voters to Trump and no one else, which guaranteed close to 50% for Trump in all primaries; and (3) DeSantis’ own personality, which came across – especially with a brief look – as plodding rather than exciting or dynamic. He wasn’t “low energy Jeb,” not by a longshot – and certainly his record in Florida was very high-energy – but he personally came across as at least somewhat low-key.
And this just wasn’t going to do the trick when the very exciting Trump was around.
Trump was indeed “around,” but he never was around DeSantis, because Trump wisely never entered the debates. He didn’t need to, and he knew it. This meant that no one ever got a chance to match them up head-to-head, although it’s traditional.
And so DeSantis is out. I hope he tries again in 2028, because I think he’s excellent, and he’s young. But the question now is whether Trump can win the general. It depends on what happens between now and November – and that could be any number of things, including a black swan event that dictates that he be replaced (by his designated VP? By Haley? By DeSantis?). Trump is polling better right now than he was earlier in the campaign season, but the “rigging” of the election has barely begun, and the left will stop at nothing in order to stop him from holding office ever again. However, they also would have tried to destroy any replacement, including DeSantis. Would they have been successful? Perhaps – and DeSantis certainly wouldn’t have commanded the kind of loyalty of the base voters on the right that Trump has cemented.
In the end, I want the person nominated by the GOP to be someone who can win and who can fight. Both Trump and DeSantis would and will fight. I just don’t know whether either of them could have – or in Trump’s case, can – win in 2024.
The whole thing is uncertain. A major and obvious cognitive failure in public for Biden is possible, and the evidence of his corruption is becoming public. Despite Trump’s much better physical condition, a health problem is possible at his age and weight. The open border makes a significant Islamist terrorist event possible to likely. And then there are internal terrorists who might take a run at Trump.
Here are a couple articles on the multitude of mistakes and unforced errors the DeSantus campaign made:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/7-reasons-ron-desantis-campaign-was-dead-on-arrival
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/19/the-desantis-team-ran-the-worst-campaign-in-history-00136527
The Politico article is a bit caustic, I grant you. But it makes a lot of very valid points.
If DeSantis runs in 2028 (which I think is fairly likely), I really hope he learns from his mistakes
DeSantis was my favorite from the start and I’m disappointed that he didn’t do better. I’m convinced that he would have made the best president. I suppose though, that with Trump in the arena he never had a chance.
I think that DeSantis showed a lot of class getting out now that it’s become obvious that he has no path to the nomination. It won’t be the same with Haley I predict. She’s having too much fun basking in the adulation from all of the NeverTrumpers. I can even see her winning in New Hampshire from all of the democrat crossover voters.
I agree with all that you said, Neo.
I would note, however, that in certain settings, such as one on one interviews, DeSantis’ personality is refreshing. I thought his media savvy wife would have coached up his stage persona by now. But she had her own health issues to confront. They have four years to work on it.
In addition to all that you noted, I believe that some of the money coming to Haley from suspect sources was intended to divide the anti-Trump vote. I suspect that that the Dem power base really wants to run against Trump. Alternatively, they may hope to create chaos by keeping Trump favored until the eve of the general campaign, or even ’til election eve, while hoping to then disqualify him late, so that the GOP is left holding an empty bag.
They don’t confide in me.
One of the intriguing questions is, ” who will they put up?”.
Any predictions about what happens in November are obviously loaded with caveats. We’ve never had a presidential candidate who was a former president and is also under multiple indictments. But based on the data that are available now, Trump is in a much stronger position than he was in 2016 or 2020. Unlike in 2016 0r 2020, not only is he ahead in the average of national polls, he is ahead by a greater margin (sometimes outside of the margin of error) in the key swing states of Georgia, Arizona and Michigan. Wins in these states would almost guarantee a Trump victory.
The betting markets have also swung strongly in Trump’s favor recently. If there are still people who think Trump is so toxic that he simply can’t win, they can make a fortune by betting on this proposition. I’m not betting my life savings that Trump will win but I wouldn’t bet against him either.
…the left will stop at nothing in order to stop him (Trump) from holding office ever again.
Such horrible awful people, led by a regime that is beyond contemptable. It’s the stark comparison, you see, which Nancy Mace references in her Trump endorsement.
neo,
Well stated. That is how I saw it play out also.
However, I think Trump and his supporters involvement make it too difficult to assess DeSantis’ campaigning abilities. It could be true that he ran a lackluster campaign, but Trump steamrolled through one of the most impressive GOP primary rosters ever assembled in 2016 and he did it again this time. As they say, “Trump sucks the air out of the room.” So it could also be true that DeSantis ran an otherwise effective campaign, but against Trump he never stood a chance.
As diverse a field as Chris Christie, Ramaswamy, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, John Kasich, Ben Carson, Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio, Mike Pence and Carly Fiorina were unable to break any ground against Trump. That is a very talented field (over 2 election cycles) with a diverse array of skills. Huckabee was a television personality and governor. Mike Pence was a radio personality and governor. Ted Cruz is a brilliant debater, Constitutional scholar and communicator. Vivek Ramaswamy has super high energy, is extremely quick on his feet and a great communicator. And on and on…
One can’t say Ted Cruz is lousy at communicating a political message. Or Mike Huckabee. Or Chris Christie. Or Ron Paul. Or Vivek Ramaswamy. Yet they all did as poorly as DeSantis and could not get their message to primary voters. It may be true that DeSantis is a weak communicator, but using his performance vs. Trump is not a valid data point. Even proven great communicators get no traction when facing DJT.
The biggest mistake DeSantis made was accepting big donor money from the GOPe. It established him as Jeb 2 and certainly someone who was willing to entertain the Bushes and anti-Trump as allies. I was all-in on Ron. That turned me off. It wasn’t a “mistake”. It was a choice. A really bad choice.
Can Trump win the general election? Not a chance. All the rules that enabled Dems to steal the election for Biden in 2020 are still in place. Unless those are eliminated Trump will not win.
So tired of hearing that DeSantis is “GOPe.” What worries me is that some of the garbage thrown at him by Trump-only loyalists will stick in 2028. Nastiness doesn’t always go away when the campaign ends. Trump has recanted from it; I hope to see his followers do so as well.
I will assume that the state (OK) will still have an election in March. DeSantis’ name is still on the ballot so, I’ll vote for him just to tell the party that he still has support. Filing was 12/4-12/6 and I don’t think they take names off the ballots.
The state made some changes in absentee ballots process during covid, but I’m not sure if they have changed all the routines back. I might just ask for an absentee ballot for the February election (school bonds).
Gregory Harper, Grover Cleveland won a second term after being out of office 4 yrs.
Kate:
I think most are aware that the charge was garbage. They went along for tactical reasons. For some, however, I agree that it will stick.
Such as, for instance, Jack Wayne above.
Rufus T. Firefly:
Agreed. No one could compete. There are many reasons for that. One is incumbency. Another is that the people who love Trump REALLY love him, and it’s about half the GOP. Nothing and nobody would have changed that. Another is that Trump is like a strong drug – a strong high. People become accustomed to his excitement, humor, and flamboyancy. Another is that anger at the lawfare against him increased his support on the right.
DeSantis locked down beaches and schools, and in some cases did by weasel methods – i.e. not doing it himself but letting local authorities do it. He only came against covid tyranny after Trump did.
https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/coronavirus-florida-gov-ron-desantis-closes-all-broward-palm-beach-beaches-movie-theaters-gyms/
“TALLAHASSEE (CBSMiami) – To stem the spread of coronavirus, Governor Ron DeSantis has issued several Executive Orders Friday that shuts down beaches and businesses in Broward and Palm Beach Counties, ends on-site dining and suspends non-essential medical procedures.
Under Executive Order 20-70, all movie theatres, concert houses, auditoriums, playhouses, bowling alleys, arcades, gymnasiums, fitness studios and beaches to close. These closures will remain in effect until March 31st but may be renewed by a written request of the County Administrator.
“The Broward County and Palm Beach County Administrators will also have the ability to enforce, relax, modify or remove these closures as they see fit,” according to a statement from the governor’s office.
The executive order also orders all restaurants, bars, pubs, night clubs, banquet halls, cabarets, breweries, cafeterias, and any other alcohol and/or food service business establishment with seating for more than ten people within the incorporated and unincorporated areas of Broward County and Palm Beach County to close on-premises service of customers. Take-out and delivery are still acceptable.
The governor also issued Executive Order 20-71, which directs all restaurants and food establishments in the state to stop serving food and drinks in their dining rooms. Preparing food for take-out or delivery is okay.”
DeSantis would make a very good president–in normal times. These are not normal times. I maintain my belief that we are at war.
I find it amazing that we are talking about the 2024 election as if the violence of 2020 never happened. Anyone who does not acknowledge that 2020 was rigged/stolen, etc in broad daylight is in serious thumb-sucking denial. It seems that there is a lot of pretending going on here.
There is no logic to nominating anyone but Trump. Anything else would be acquiescence to the Big Lie. If Americans are not allowed to choose their own president, then what does it matter?
LordAzrael @7:33pm,
Your comment is one of the most unexamined attacks I have ever read on the Internet. Do you read any sources other than the Trump campaign? Aside from Kristi Noem, Ron DeSantis was the U.S. chief Executive most open and free, regarding COVID lockdowns and the vaccine. And, while President Trump chastised DeSantis for opening Florida.
It’s OK to not like Ron DeSantis, or to think Trump was better on COVID than DeSantis, but if you were against lockdowns and against the vaccine you can’t promote Trump’s policies over DeSantis’. Well, I guess you can, but if you do it’s a lie.
And yet Ron DID accept hundreds of millions from GOPe donors. I don’t see how you can wave that away. Regardless of his personal politics, it was a very bad look. I personally think W was a really bad President and anyone related in any way to him is suspicious. And to accuse me of being MAGA is just projection on your part.
JackWayne:
Are none pure as snow?
And what does your assessment of George W. Bush have to do with Ron DeSantis? Is it a personal problem or just an obsession? One can never be too suspicious! I’ve heard that President Trump lived in the same house as W.( 😉 )
DeSantis would be a good president–in normal times. Clearly these are not normal times.
I still maintain that we are at war. If Americans are not allowed to choose their own president, then what’s the point.
Trump is the only logical choice. Any other choice would be accepting the big lie.
Both Trump and DeSantis would and will fight. I just don’t know whether either of them could have – or in Trump’s case, can – win in 2024.
Given that “the “rigging” of the election has barely begun” and if the democrat nominee ‘wins’ again, upon what basis might we imagine that any republican candidate will have even a slim chance of winning the 2028 election?
What chance that between the 2024 and 2028 elections
they won’t deepen and spread their efforts at electoral fraud? That our borders won’t permanently remain open?
So, what chance will there be of ever again having fairly conducted Presidential elections?
The Left is paying for keeps, for all the marbles and they will do whatever is needed to prevail. No matter how many they have to kill or how many millions of lives they have to ruin. To fail to acknowledge the inherent nature of these people is to whistle past the graveyard with eyes tightly shut.
I am convinced that many of the anti-DeSantis commenters that slithered out from under a rock are leftists masquerading as conservatives. The left really really wants to face Trump as the Republican candidate. This was coordinated with the lawfare from regime. Spectacularly successful, and the country will pay the price.
Bob Wilson:
I also am convinced that some were indeed from the left, playing the right like a fiddle. But absolutely not all. Trump was involved. And Conservative Treehouse was very heavily involved, something I noticed at the outset. For them, it was Trump or Nothing.
You might be interested in one of the earliest posts I wrote about DeSantis’ candidacy. Looking back at it now, I think I saw it pretty clearly back then, in May of 2023. One of the things I wrote was this:
I’m still not sure the country will pay the price, though. There is at least a possibility that Trump could pull it off. There’s also a possibility that none of the other candidates could have pulled it off. So many unknowns.
Davemay:
Statements such as yours – and I’ve been reading them for as long as DeSantis was campaigning for the presidency – puzzle me. DeSantis gave every indication of being fully aware of what we’re facing, and of having plans for dealing with it. Plus, he had a proven track record of being unafraid to challenge the status quo, and hard.
I sometimes wonder whether most people even paid attention to his actual record and instead relied on what his opponents said about him. I had been studying him for a long time, and I was and remain very impressed and think that, if he became president, he’d be more effective than Trump.
Jack Wayne:
Who “accused” you of “being MAGA”? I certainly didn’t. For one thing, I don’t consider “being MAGA” a bad thing. To me, it just means supporting Trump. I supported him during his presidency and in some ways I still do in 2024, but I wouldn’t have voted for him in the primary if DeSantis was also in the race; I prefer DeSantis.
Do you happen to know who donated to every Republican you ever voted for? Do you require that none of their donors have ever donated to a Bush? Are you aware that Reagan’s running mate was none other than George H. W. Bush? Or perhaps you wouldn’t have voted for Reagan, either?
Purism in politics is a self-inflicted wound.
Rufus T. Firefly:
As I said, the criticisms of DeSantis by Trump admirers very often feature lies. I agree that it’s fine to prefer Trump to DeSantis, but lying about DeSantis gets my goat.
neo,
“… but lying about DeSantis gets my goat.”
Oh, us neophiles know that.
😉
I sometimes wonder how many of the more obnoxious “Only Trumpers” this time around voted for Bernie in the past?
@ Neo > “So many unknowns.”
We have blown way past the known unknowns and are out into the unknowable unknowns.
I’ve always wondered why Rumsfeld didn’t mention the unknown knowns in his taxonomy.
Those would be the things you know, perhaps subconsciously, but don’t connect with other important facts until too late.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_unknown_unknowns
Bonchie makes some good points about DeSantis and Haley in this post.
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2024/01/22/the-desantis-post-mortem-youve-been-waiting-for-n2169046
I guess you’re missing my point, Neo. 2020 was a crime. There has to be restitution. There has to be JUSTICE.
Pretending that there was no coup emboldens those that perpetuate the deceitful narrative. We are playing by the enemies’ rules if we’re only allowed to choose someone other than Trump. At this point, trump represents the Truth about who they, the enemies of truth, are–and they fear that more than anything. Our battle is not against flesh and blood…
One of the things that really turns me off about Trump is the way that he goes after other Republicans. Frankly, DeSantis is a more consistent conservative that Trump. DeSantis is also a more effective executive than Trump. On top of that, DeSantis actually won enough independent and swing voters in his FL reelection to take Democrats’ vote counting shenanigans completely off the table. Compare and contrast with Trump’s performance in 2020. DeSantis is superior to Trump in every conceivable way, with the exception of charisma and entertainment value.
And yet the Trump minions have gone after DeSantis with vicious lies and smears to the extent that, I think, Kate’s worry about some of that sticking to DeSantis in future elections is on point. So Trump has done potentially permanent damage to the most effective right-of-center executive in the country because he dared to stand in the way of Trump’s third consecutive Republican nomination?
It goes to my core thesis about Trump. Trump doesn’t give a flying rip about any movement, people, philosophy, or anything else. If you want to explain or predict him, you need to understand that everything he does is for the greater glory of Donald Trump. There’s really not a whole lot of substance beyond that.
Davemay – You are as bad as the prosecutors going after Trump. There is no crime without (i) a criminal act clearly defined by statute; and (ii) evidence establishing that the criminal act was committed.
There is no evidence establishing that Donald Trump was the rightful winner of the 2020 election. None. Therefore no crime, and no “retribution” is necessary. We should be voting based on what’s best for the country, not based on imaginary crimes.
Having an intuitive sense that something wrong happened does not a crime create. Jack Smith, Fani Willis, Alvin Bragg, and Letitia James are making exactly the same error as you, except that they are making up crimes that don’t exist instead of making up evidence that doesn’t exist.
@ Bauxite I really agree with your analysis and it adds to something I have thought about a lot over the last few days.
Do the Republicans and/or Trump actually want to win?
Or are they happier outside of Government not responsible for the big decisions but happy to criticise the “system”, the “swamp” or the “deep state”? The language used reminds me so much of the half arsed student lefty stuff you get over here. Everything is a plot, elections are all rigged, the judiciary, the police, the federal authorities, are all on the other side. And there are only two sides us, the angels and them, the demons. Life is invariably more complex than that.
Or maybe Trump wants to win but not so he can really achieve anything but just to be adored by those people who seem so willing to adore him.
But if Republicans want to actually win and have a President with a plan they would do better to choose Hayley. At 52 she is more likely to last four years in power and have the dynamism to achieve something. Hayley v Biden would be a hell
of a contrast.
I disagree, Bauxite. When he won the 2016 nomination, after insulting Jeb Bush and telling outrageous lies about Ted Cruz and his family, I was not thrilled, but I voted for him because I couldn’t stomach Hillary as president. He turned out to be one of the best presidents of the modern era, and that was in the face of vicious falsehoods and propaganda in the leftist press, and a Deep State conspiracy using the powers of the government against him.
I am not happy about his sliming of Ron DeSantis, but at this point I will vote for him in some confidence that he would be a much better president than anyone the Dems or Independents can come up with.
Neo says it above: “Purism in politics is a self-inflicted wound.”
@Kate Doesn’t the name calling make you question his judgement? It isn’t about purity as much as competence. He seems easy to anger yet oblivious to his impact on others. Are we in for WW3 because someone calls him Tiny?
Bauxite, the evidence of a stolen election is the Russian collusion hoax itself. The same cast of characters that planted evidence against Trump, framing him with a crime he didn’t commit, are claiming that they would never never never steal an election. Scout’s honor.
If you believe Biden got 81 million votes you are delusional.
Neo says it above: “Purism in politics is a self-inflicted wound.”
==
More precisely, you’ve only got the choices you’ve got, not the choices you want.
DCL, in office he was not incompetent, and as many have pointed out, we’re a whole lot closer to WWIII with Biden and the stealth Obama gang in charge than we were when Trump was in office. Biden projects weakness to the world; bad actors pay attention.
Kate – I voted for Trump in 2020, so I’m already impure. I also voted for Romney, McCain, and Bush (twice), none of whom were my preferred candidates. My issue isn’t about purity, it’s prudential.
I do not begrude Trump credit for his acheivements, most notably the Supreme Court and Abraham Accords. I strongly disagree that Trump was one of the best presidents of the modern era, however. Every positive he provided was equaled or outweighed by negative, whether it was coursening public discource, legitmizing Democrats’ sleaze by doing the same things, plain incompetence in dealing with Congress and the administrative state (of which there were many examples), blowing the COVID response, or losing what should have been an easily winnable election in 2020.
If that were all, I would still be voting for Trump again this year. My problem is that Trump’s behavior since the 2020 election has convinced me that the man lacks the character and maturity to respect the basic sine qua non norms of the republic. Trump has shot his mouth off about how he wouldn’t accept electoral defeat since the 2016 Republican primaries. In every election he’s run, he has insisted that he could only lose if the election was rigged. We were told that was just hyperbole, and that we should take him seriously but not literally. And then when he lost an election for the first time in 2020, he did exactly what he had been telling us he would do since the beginning. He refused to accept the result. He ignored his reasonable advisors who told him that he had lost. He sought out and listened to snake oil salesmen like Guiliani and Eastman who helped him push a crackpot legal theory to try to reverse the election results. Then he suggested that his VP deserved to be hanged because he wouldn’t go along with it.
A man who behaves that way should not have power. The party or faction who puts a man like this in power will regret it. That’s my judgement. It’s not about purity.
I agree with Neo’s points in her post and comments.
Go Trump! but I think I will still vote for DeSantis in the primary, as he is my first choice. Also, in case Trump can’t run or serve, my preference will be registered.
Also agree about Trump’s appeal. Every quote from him makes me laugh, which is unheard of in politics.
And, I get it, but I don’t think voting for Trump out of sympathy is the best strategy.
Davemay – You’re running a bait and switch. I’m with you on the Russia hoax. It was, or should have been, the biggest political scandal of the past 100 years. The Russia scandal, however, has nothing whatsoever to do with whether Biden actually received 81 million votes.
Jordan Rivers, yup, I will vote for DeSantis in the primary.
An evil regime was imposed on us the proof is in the extraordinary penalties being imposed on those who challenged it some were killed some have been charged for nearly two decades ask your self why
People who murdered cops in the riots didnt get 22 years then they made up the lies about the 5 capitol police men omissions about pipe bombs
@DCL
I have generally disagreed with most of Bauxite’s analysis on this issue, often fiercely.
That question fits for much of the Republican Party (and particularly those that often get accused -rightfully or wrongly – of being “GOPE or “RINOs”) but not so much for Trump. To know the man and his massive ego is to know he likes winning, perhaps too much.
Which might not be so surprising given the Iron Law of Woke Projection and also the fact that Trump is a Blue State Limo Liberal who converted.
Kate and some others have provided a good slate of sources for those. Not all of them are accurate.
Agreed, but that does touch upon the lack of pluralism in the left and attempts to melt reality down into that on both sides, but with the left largely spearheading this. Anyone remember Zell Miller? Or the attempts to foist Marxist Dialectic and “Decolonization”?
For better AND for worse Trump and the others are a response to the Left, much like the Tea Party is. And in spite of broadly supporting both I do not have to be blind to their failures or not fearful of what might come after.
That’s probably closer to the truth but the blunt fact of the matter is that he could have been broadly adored outside of that. Adoration is something he likes but not one of his driving forces, as Neo pointed out with his longrunning Presidential ambitions on both sides. And for better and for worse one of the better ways to gain adoration and fame – especially without the headwinds of a pro-Leftist media – is achievements.
Can’t agree. I liked Hayley before at the UN but she has been a sore disappointment for these last several years, especially the apparent lack of conviction and reliance on Dem party support. The jihad against internet anonymity and some others made me more convinced on that.
There’s more to life than optics and while I am not opposed to a fresh faced relatively young conservative woman (and I am DEFINITELY not the kind of person who claims anybody opposed to or at least a rival of Trump is “GOPE” or “Uniparty”, as shown by my support of DeSantis and criticism of Trump) she seems to fit the bill more.
Of course it does, but only so much.
Agreed.
He is generally more astute on emotions than people give him credit for (which is one reason he ran towards the center in 2016 and worked hard to build bridges with establishment republicans – as shown by things like picking Pence and publicly being a good soldier-, which tends to be “conveniently” forgotten). But that is a problem.
God give me strength, I don’t know where to start with this “Have you stopped beating your wife?” chain of thought. One of the big issues I have with both anti-Trumpers and what I believe are more extreme pro-Trumpers is they tend to forget the last several years, at least when convenient (I’ve called Bauxite out for ignoring Trump’s attempts to play nice with the Republican establishment and more doctrinnaire conservatives, among other things).
The other and particularly the latter is that they seem to be dependent on the Left’s old press releases on Trump.
But no, I am not concerned about getting into WW3 because someone called Trump tiny.
This is for a few reasons.
First and foremost: we’ve been here before. Trump was President for 4 years and while he was undermined to a fair degree he still had responsibility (with both accomplishments and losses) and made his mark on foreign affairs. He dealt with ne’er do wells like Putin, Xi, the Kim Dynasty, Iran’s Mullahs, the House of Assad, and so on quite cagily and bravely. He and those under him generally showed strength but not provocatively so, with things such as the cratering of the Baathist/VVS used airfields in Syria in response to the chemical weapons attacks after a warning to show he meant business without risking more of a spiral.
And this generally worked, especially since the bad actors we face on the national stage are generally even weaker than we are, and because Trump was quick to play Good Cop/Bad Cop (sometimes to a cloyingly distasteful degree I admit). This helped keep the peace for four years and while there are legitimate points and questions to make about how much Trump personally contributed to that (for instance like if Putin would have escalated his invasion of Ukraine in 2022 if Trump did so; I personally think not but others like our Groucho-faced friend have questioned it and I can’t fault them for it).
But that he played a role isn’t.
Moreover he did this while being called every name under the sun, even those that were logically inconsistent. I remember when the left went from insisting he was Putin’s puppet to screaming how he was a war mad General Ripper who would bring us to nuclear apocalypse (Hmm, where have I heard that before? Eisenhower? Nixon? Reagan anyone?) Bueller?) by his cratering of the aforementioned Syrian airstrips.
And then when (surprising to them but not to me) that didn’t result they went right back to calling him a puppet of the petty bald mole rat he had just humiliated.
Secondly: If WW3 does come, I’m pretty damn sure it won’t be Trump’s fault, and that this is less likely to be the responsibility of even our own bad actors.
Let’s not forget that geopolitics is a multiplayer game and we are in a “lobby” with people WAY worse than even the left’s caricature of Trump. Putin is an egotistical, borderline psychopathic, corrupt Chekist dictator with a fondness for ethnic cleansing, state terrorism, and financing Islamist semi-states like Kadyrov’s Chechnya, and he’s arguably one of the BETTER of our major adversaries because while utterly self-interested and willing to sponsor even worse people he wants to rule as much of the world as possible and pad his own ego and paycheck, not blow the world up.
That would handily belong to our friends the Iranian Mullahcracy, who have practically been the occupying force of their own nation and imperialist tyrants of the Middle East and Beyond for decades. They are Twelver Shiite fanatics who believe that the Messiah shall come to complete Islam and elevate the world to purity and submission, and that before this happens great turmoil shall happen that will see holy sites bathed in fire. So logically in their own way, they have been hellbent to bring about those conditions by sponsoring terrorism of almost every stripe (including Osama) and acquire “peaceful nuclear power” (which one imagines means something very different to theocratic tyrants even before we factor in Taqiyya). While trying to upend civilization as we know it with things like sponsoring the Houthis.
These are what we call “Partners in Peace.”
As opposed to the “bad” mass murdering Islamist totalitarians such as IS, the remaining AQ franchise groups, Boko Haram, and so forth, who we pooh pooh and launch pinprick strikes while letting the grassroots rot intensify in our own cities.
Somewhere between those two poles are most of the other malcontents. Xi is doubtless a monstrously corrupt tyrant but what is worse is that he is apparently dedicated to becoming the Second Coming of Mao maybe mixed with Zhu Di the Yongle Emperor, and has been engaging in one of the largest military buildups in world history to try and contest the Pacific Island Chains while beating up and bullying his neighbors on the borders and brutally oppressing his own people. He provides one of the other two major members of the Beijing-Moscow Axis. The Kim Family should need no introduction, 1984 Fanclub God-King Tyrants ruling as serving boys of the PRC and United Russia in Korea with sidelines in international terrorism and global crime. Pakistan is one of the greatest mistakes of the Late British Empire had simultaneously bilked us for all we are worth while financing Jihadis like Osama, and are close allies of the PRC and one of the least secure or mature of nuclear powers. The “Bolivarian Alternative” in Hispanic America think Che Guevara and Fidel Castro had the right idea but that they just didn’t kill enough people, get enough foreign aid, or crush the economy hard enough, and while they are on the recession with Millei’s victory and Bolivia turfing out Morales they are still dangerous, especially with aid from the likes of Hezbollah and most of the rest of the aforementioned malcontents.
If you really think any of these people are less likely to start WW3 than Trump because he was called tiny, I envy your naivety.
One does not have to support Trump (as I do) in order to acknowledge these points. And by all means there is plenty of criticism to be levied against him, MUCH of it being justified. But the idea that he is so thin skinned he will cause the apocalypse is a blast from the past in the worst possible way since it was from one of the left’s least successful propaganda and scare offensives.
Look at the lies they told about cambridge analytica carol whatshername about cummings what they did to farage do you know whats going on in your own country
Why should england answer to a foreign master specially those as sketchy as frau von leyen
Well, you can lead a horse to water….
Reminds me of a cousin of mine, super-intelligent, who, when I explained that Jews who support Israel should have the inside track when it comes to being extremely skeptical about the Media and hence should automatically regard the Media’s treatment of Trump with the same extreme skepticism—responded that while the Media might be very problematic WRT Israel, it DOES NOT FOLLOW that they’re also lying about Trump…
Sigh…
So putin not someone i would want to have tea with specially at the millenium bar but compared to andropov that strobe talbott made excuses for because jazz seriously im sure hes ordered men killed but this is a nasty and brutish world
When a chechen terrorist a poet by training urged suicide bombings from doha he didnt wait for the international community yo do something about it he took steps
Meanwhile what did we do for all of the 90s leading up to september 11th nothing useful
The kim dynast had members of his own family killed the clintons lavished monies on them and guess what they broke the deal and got more nukes what do they say about scorpions the missiles that were launched against us came from ukrajne under the previous management
This is perhaps why rumsfeld was concerned about said prospect from other actors back in 97, but biden said naw it will be fine (parodying will drake) wrong for 40 years yet they still vouch for him amazing well when there is no stigma for being wrong sometimes catastrophically you should continue to make mistakes
Reagan was hated by the Establishment almost as much as Trump. He chose Schweiker as VP candidate in 1976 to try to placate them. That is why he put Bush in the mix in 1980. That was probably his worst mistake but it took years to see it. I did not like GW Bush in 2000 and even toyed with a vote for Gore.
Barry @9:43am,
I know you know the below, and I know your friend won’t read it, but it still bears repeating.
“Wet streets cause rain” applies to the vast majority of “research” in ethnic studies departments.
OK…
I’ll raise ye’ (with this Golden oldie)…though I can’t say for sure what kind of research this genius was doing… (though one can guess!):
“Washington councilman accuses Jews of controlling weather”—
https://www.timesofisrael.com/washington-councilman-accuses-jews-of-controlling-weather/
Republicans left politics as usual a while ago. Part of that is a desire to be entertained, but part is a distrust of conventional politicians. DeSantis lacked charisma, and couldn’t find another way to stand out from the pack of the usual politicians. It may or may not be true that he could have won the general election when Trump couldn’t, but unless Trump faltered terribly DeSantis was not going to get the nomination.
The cast for recent primary campaigns, whether it’s Republicans in 2012 and 2016 or Democrats in 2020, includes a lot of governors, senators, and mayors who might be quite competent, but who don’t manage to stand out and gather followers. Maybe DeSantis deserved to be taken more seriously than the others, but he didn’t manage to make the case.
Most Republicans loved — or at least had few problems with — the first three years of Trump’s presidency. Then COVID came along and everything went to hell. Trump didn’t know how to deal with it, no more than other leaders around the world did. DeSantis may have been right about COVID, but it wasn’t going to be a winning issue for him, in part because Trump had done so much else right, and in part because voters didn’t want to keep hearing about what DJT (and so many others) may have gotten wrong.
__________
All of the “God words” were pulled out in 2020 — honesty, integrity, decency, dignity, experience, competence, compassion — and to what end? To elect and keep in power one of the most incompetent and corrupt administrations in American history. Consequently, it’s natural that many voters don’t trust political rhetoric or politics as usual.
It occured to me the other day that even the “bad guys” in American history thought that they were fighting for “the Soul of America.” If they thought history had an arc, they assumed it would bend their way. “The Fight for the Soul of America” was misdirection, designed to make people think that it was still 1965 and that “white supremacy” was still the enemy. Whether one needed to be a fool to swallow that line four years ago, one definitely needs to be one to swallow it now.
Reagan was hated by the Establishment almost as much as Trump. He chose Schweiker as VP candidate in 1976 to try to placate them. That is why he put Bush in the mix in 1980. That was probably his worst mistake but it took years to see it. I did not like GW Bush in 2000 and even toyed with a vote for Gore
==
IIRC, the idea in choosing Schweicker was derived from old ticket-balancing logic. Schweicker was a liberal Republican who agreed with Reagan on some issues (e.g. abortion). At the time the selection was made, a member of Congress is supposed to have told a reporter for Time “Schweicker? He’s the dumbest guy in the Wednesday club [a small conclave of liberal Republicans in Congress]. He won’t get three votes out of Pennsylvania’.
==
The idea with Bush is that you placate a faction that had a lot of votes. The trouble you get with the Bushes is that while each indvidually has some important personal virtues, the culture of the family at large displays the vices of the patriciate of the northeast. Their belief in ‘public service’ is devoid of content and they tend to equate contention with wrongdoing. The only issue the elder Bush was willing to go to the mat for was…preferential tax rates on capital gains. He was a competitive man for whom issues were fungible. (Mitt Romney’s not much different). They eventually betrayed everyone who ever voted for them.
==
As far as I can recall, corporate types were satisfied with Reagan once he was in office.
Aside from Kristi Noem, Ron DeSantis was the U.S. chief Executive most open and free, regarding COVID lockdowns and the vaccine. And, while President Trump chastised DeSantis for opening Florida.
I agree with that, although Noem, DeSantis and Trump all faced different situations. Trump had the “medical” establishment that was compromised advising him. South Dakota is one of the best states to be leading in such a situation, Noem had an easier path than DeSantis or Trump.
Another betrayal courtesy George W Bush:
==
https://amgreatness.com/2024/01/22/three-former-presidents-start-ngo-to-import-illegal-aliens-into-the-u-s/
Don @ 12:53pm,
Trump is not shy about firing people. You may remember he hosted a TV show on the subject for many years.
Yes, Trump had lousy advisors on COVID, but they were the advisors Trump chose to listen to, just as Trump chose to ignore medical professionals and virologists who were disagreeing with his advisors.
I heard a representative from the WHO or CDC interviewed and asked about the various state Executives. This man was no fan of DeSantis or DeSantis’ actions but he said DeSantis was always amazingly prepared and knowledgeable in all of their meetings. He was astounded at how much research DeSantis had done on virology and pandemics.
Trump agreed with and/or trusted his advisors.
Related?
“U.S., Chinese Researchers Wanted to Engineer Virus Similar to Covid One Year before Pandemic Outbreak, Internal Docs Show”—
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/u-s-chinese-researchers-wanted-to-engineer-virus-similar-to-covid-one-year-before-pandemic-outbreak-internal-docs-show/
Bauxite, who told you there was no evidence of fraud? ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN,MSNBC,NPR PBS, The Washington Post, the NYT? Bill Barr? George Stephanopoulos? The people using Lawfare?
We can’t unsee what we’ve seen.
Ron’s problem was that he was tested and FAILED multiple times–
he failed to express outrage at the lawfare against Trump; he failed to support the political prisoners of J6; he failed on Ukraine, when he changed his position in less than 24 hours after his donors let him know what they wanted: and he failed to connect when he was on the trail.
He needs to decide exactly who he is, what his principles are, and whether he has the ability to be the authentic candidate that voters are now seeking.
People who don’t know who they are can’t connect with voters on the trail.
He may want to be president, but he’s failed to prove he’s up to the job.
A lot can happen between now and 2028.
Lee,
Are you seriously discounting DeSantis because you don’t think he states his opinions and sticks with them?
Is there any opinion Donald J. Trump hasn’t held both sides on in the past 40 years?!
It’s perfectly fine to not like DeSantis and support Trump but pick a reason that is consistent and not hypocritical.
Trump did listen to experts who dissented on COVID, but that was in the face of the overwhelming opposition of the medical establishment and the media. Look at Ivermectin and Hydroxycholoroquine and the lab leak theory. Trump didn’t help himself with his comments about coming up with an injectable disinfectant, but he was run over by the media whenever he suggested anything that Fauci didn’t approve of. Maybe DeSantis would have had the courage to go against the Establishment, but as governor, he had the advantage of seeing how things were going in the rest of the country and makind decisions accordingly. He wasn’t point man for a whole country when the pandemic began.