↓
 
Home » The civilians: if Gaza is an “open-air prison” …

The civilians: if Gaza is an “open-air prison” …

The New Neo Posted on by

… (a popular descriptive phrase on the left, uttered without any indication of what it might mean or why Gazans might be blocked by other Muslim countries such as Egypt), Hamas members are presently the wardens and guards. And Egypt has a role there, too, in keeping its own borders closed.

See this:

Since Friday the [Israeli] army has been urging Palestinians in the northern Gaza Strip to evacuate, indicating it is planning to significantly intensify operations there. On Saturday it said Hamas was actively preventing travel south with roadblocks on major roads. …

Al-Sheikh, secretary-general of the Executive Committee of the Palestinian Authority’s Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), said the Palestinian leadership “rejects by all means the Israeli attempts to displace the citizens of Gaza Strip, considers this a war crime added to the series of Israeli war crimes and calls on the international community to intervene to stop this genocidal war in the Gaza Strip.” …

“If you care about yourself and your loved ones, go south as instructed,” the IDF’s Arabic-language spokesman, Lt. Col. Avichay Adraee said in a post on X, formerly Twitter.

“Rest assured that Hamas leaders have taken care of themselves and are taking cover from strikes in the region,” he added.

In response to the IDF’s call for civilians to move south, Hamas told residents to stay in their homes: “Do not follow the propaganda evacuation instructions.” The terror group is known to try and force residents to ignore such notices given by the military.

Hamas would like to maximize the Palestinian civilian casualties, and they are hoping that “the international community” will put the brakes on Israel in some magical manner. It’s happened before that Israel has backed off because of pleas from that community and/or pressure from the US. It may happen again, but that’s not what I predict will occur. Israel is fighting for its life, and the opinion of diplomats is not going to stop it from doing what it feels it needs to do. The Israelis themselves don’t want to kill civilians – I think they’ve made that clear for many decades, if people have eyes to see it. But they will not desist from a much more large-scale attack this time.

I think this is what Hamas wanted, thinking that Israeli retaliation and dead Palestinian children to show the press and the UN would be good for propaganda. It always has been that way in the past. I believe Hamas also thought their own terrorist brutality against Israelis would inspire and rally other Arab states and many Arab immigrants in Western countries, and it has. But I don’t think anyone except perhaps Hezbollah is eager to jump into the fray right now with boots on the ground. I could be wrong about this, but I don’t even think the diplomat crowd and their calls for “proportionate response” will matter this time, and even their voices sound somehwat more hollow than usual to me. And I think all of this is somewhat of a surprise to both Hamas and Iran.

In summary, please ponder this:

[Gaza’s] Al-Shifa Hospital is receiving hundreds of wounded every hour and had used up 95% of its medical supplies, hospital director Mohammed Abu Selmia said. Water is scarce and the fuel powering its generators is dwindling.

“The situation inside the hospital is miserable in every sense of the word,” he said. “The operating rooms don’t stop.”

Selmia estimated that 40,000 displaced civilians were sitting under the trees in the empty grounds surrounding the hospital, as well as inside the building’s lobby and corridors, hoping they would be protected there from the fighting.

The hospital is widely reported to be sitting atop a major Hamas headquarters, with the terror group using the facility as a shield.

Comments

The civilians: if Gaza is an “open-air prison” … — 65 Comments

  1. From the river
    to the sea
    Hamasites
    and Gazamites
    are ….

    FAFO

    My give a F’s are gone for them.

  2. Fanatic Islamists consider their own people as cannon fodder for the jihad, nothing more. A lot of these people are going to die. If their leaders had encouraged them to evacuate, they had a chance to live. Hamas doesn’t care.

  3. I also posted this comment on an earlier thread.

    Muslim leaders have shaped the Palestinians to be a useful tool, a reservoir of anger and hatred, a tumultuous and feral people, and a dagger for use against the Jews.

    But these feral people are so dangerous and disruptive that these Muslim leaders make sure that these Palestinians have no place in their own countries; they keep them bottled up in Gaza, and in the refugee camps, ready for release against the Jews.

  5. This Time It’s Different Dept:
    ________________________________

    I think this is what Hamas wanted, thinking that Israeli retaliation and dead Palestinian children to show the press and the UN would be good for propaganda. It always has been that way in the past. I believe Hamas also thought their own terrorist brutality against Israelis would inspire and rally other Arab states and many Arab immigrants in Western countries, and it has. But I don’t think anyone except perhaps Hezbollah is eager to jump into the fray right now with boots on the ground. I could be wrong about this, but I don’t even think the diplomat crowd and their calls for “proportionate response” will matter this time, and even their voices sound somehwat more hollow than usual to me. And I think all of this is somewhat of a surprise to both Hamas and Iran.

    –neo

  6. remember the hub bub they made of jenin, and how goldstone, and richard falk,
    the latter made his reputation pushing that gentle dissident khomeini (i’m not making this up) tried to accuse Israel of war crimes,

  7. There has been a report of Iranian backed Iraqi shia militia (Hezzie-clones) on the move into Syria headed for the Golan. So, maybe we’ll see them show up, and maybe not. Meantime the IAF is hitting Aleppo airport again today.

  11. “…I don’t even think the diplomat crowd and their calls for “proportionate response” will matter this time, and even their voices sound somehwat more hollow than usual to me.”
    _______

    Agreed. Many of them do sound as if Hamas has gone too far for a change. If so, that’s a big change. You have to go back 50 years for a time when the press was pro-Israel; the last time I remember was the Yom Kippur War. By the end of the Carter years, that had changed.

  12. It sounds as if a logical thing to do would be for the Israeli forces to go after those roadblocks.

  14. I suspect the people calling for proportionate response don’t know that it doesn’t mean limit casualties to some fraction of friendly loss.

  15. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/iran-warns-of-far-reaching-consequences-if-israel-does-not-halt-gaza-campaign/

    Iran’s mission to the UN repeats its warning that the conflict between Israel and Hamas could widen if Israel continues striking Gaza, seen as a veiled threat to deploy its proxy terror group Hezbollah or take action itself.

    Accusing Israel of “war crimes and genocide,” the mission says “the situation could spiral out of control & ricochet far-reaching consequences,” placing the blame on the UN Security Council.

    On Thursday, Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian warned the “Axis of Resistance” could respond to Israeli “crimes,” after a meeting in Lebanon with Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah and others.

  16. I haven’t wanted to do a deep dive into all of the awful images of the results of Hamas barbarity, but I just happened to notice a new detail in one color image I had seen in passing before, in which a young women captive was dragged out of one jeep-like vehicle and shoved into another.

    This time I noticed that the back of her brown khaki pants were stained with a large splotch of fresh blood, and my guess is that she was probably very recently raped.

  17. I saw a report on that woman Snow, yesterday or possibly the day before, which said she was shot to death inside that car shortly after the scene you saw, or most everyone has seen by now. The report was based on further video evidence, it said, evidence which I have not seen apart from a single still picture/video capture which did indeed appear to depict a deceased young woman dressed as before.

  18. There have already been pics of injured Palis children. Press is trying to paint Isarel as mass murders. Some stupid Dem pol wants the US to take in a million of the “refugees” from Gaza. DeSantis said no way, they are virulent antisemites and violent. Glad to see some pushback on the University idjts. My Best Friend sent me videos of Maher calling out the Palis apologist.
    USS Eisenhower headed to the Med, might join up with the Ford. When I was in (was on a Carrier there) we had 2 Carrier Battle Groups in the Med at all times.

  20. As a partial mitigation of the displacement/damage from bombing Gaza buildings, could IDF drill down to the Hamas bunkers, HQ, ammo dumps etc —and flood them with some of the water that usually supplies Gaza? Poetic justice there, and little trauma (except for the drowned terrorists).

    Probably not a fast process, nor a comprehensive one: not all bunkers would be known, and some would be immune to flooding. But maybe as an initial move? Or a supplement? Remember that this war is being fought not only with physical assets and real violence, but also psychologically. The world would conjure images of the flooding and shudder. Which is a good thing.

  21. Owen:

    You have to establish security on the ground for the drilling operation, you have to find where the underground targets are, and you have to deal with rubble on the surface. A sapper (military engineering) problem.

    Drill into the underground facilities add fuel air explosive and light them off, after retreating a prudent evacuation distance. The Hamasites may have considerable ordnance underground, blowing it up in situ could crater a lot of Gazaland. Sad.

  22. om-
    I’ve been thinking similarly.
    Gaza is said to be undermined with extensive tunnelling, which is done not for mass transit or storage, but for military/terrorist purposes.
    Bombing dual use building from the air creates problematic video.
    Blowing it up from below, targeting only military assets, is 100% legit and even the lefties can’t whine about it. The tunnels are connected to the building basements where the Hamas HQ and ammo dumps are hidden. Too bad if the hospital and elementary school that is built overhead is collapsed as collateral damage. The Israelis can create 3D maps of the tunnel complexes to show the world, including their connections to the hospitals and schools, once they secure the north sector of Gaza.

  23. An unfortunate, unexpected consequence for the Gazamites, destruction of the millitary/terrorist tunnel infrastructure may also wreck the buried civilian infrastructure; potable water, sewers, electric power distribution, etc. Do barbarians need those things?

  24. neo writes, “I could be wrong about this, but I don’t even think the diplomat crowd and their calls for ‘proportionate response’ will matter this time, and even their voices sound somewhat more hollow than usual to me.”

    “Proportionate response”, eh? . . .

    Presidential candidate Obama promises (in June 2008), “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

  25. Proportionate means not unreasonable collateral damage for military purpose of the attack. Wipe out a city block to get a sniper? Not proportionate. Destroy Hamas HQ under hospital, destroying hospital in process? Proportionate.

  27. @ West TX > “Blowing it up from below, targeting only military assets, is 100% legit and even the lefties can’t whine about it.”

    Similar tactic used successfully in the past, so this suggestion may already have been considered. However, it takes a lot of preparation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9578141/Israel-steps-attacks-Gaza-heavy-bombing-overnight.html
    “Israel’s deadly deception: IDF TRICKED Hamas into believing a ground invasion was underway… then obliterated tunnel network knowing militants would be hiding underground waiting to ambush tanks” – May 2021

  28. In Viet Man, tunnels were dealt with by using massive fans to blow gasoline vapors into and through the tunnel system. That worked. An explosive shock front in a tunnel is reversed by two succeeding ninety degree turns. Getting the vapor through the system is far more effective and then lighting it off is more efficient.

  29. As a partial mitigation of the displacement/damage from bombing Gaza buildings, could IDF drill down to the Hamas bunkers, HQ, ammo dumps etc —and flood them with some of the water that usually supplies Gaza? Poetic justice there, and little trauma (except for the drowned terrorists).

    I have wondered for some time about connecting those tunnels to sewage and Med waters.

  30. Well, contaminating the shallow aquifers below Gazaland with sea water and human pathogens would be another unforeseen consequence for the Hamasites/Gazamites. How sad for them. FAFO

  31. Hamas and other terrorist groups are exempt from criticism when they violate
    “the rules of war.”
    Only Israel is expected to behave.

    Israel needs, once and for all, to remove Gaza from the face of the earth. If they once again allow it to re-populate with Palestinians, Israel will once again have a terrorist state directly on their border.

    Further , if they re-occupy Gaza populated by Palestinians, it will be 10000 times worse than the British mess in Northern Ireland during the “troubles.”

    Israel has no choice but expel all the the Palestinians; let the other Arab nations take them in.

    Within 5 years after WWII ended, the about 10 million refugees were re-settled.

  32. their enablers the qataris own half of dc, they have the high rent Al Jazeera platform, and the lower rent Middle East Eye, I only heard of them with the Khashoggi matter,

  33. I have wondered about the feasibility of putting flammables in the tunnel system and blowing it up, once they go into Gaza. I think they have a fair idea of the locations.

    The other thought circulating today is that the delay, which is being blamed on weather, is really because they’ve got a line on hostage location and may try a rescue. They should proceed with eliminating Hamas even after a rescue.

  34. This Time It’s Different Dept:
    ________________________________

    MSNBC is paying a serious price for leading the field in dishonest journalism that draws a false equivalence between the terrorist brutalities of Hamas and the legitimate self-defense of Israel.

    The network’s lost 33% of its primetime viewers since Hamas struck Israel even as Fox — which accurately reports on the situation — has seen a massive 42% jump in total viewership.

    It’s not hard to see why.

    Americans know what terrorism looks like: the rape and murder of civilians, including toddlers.

    https://nypost.com/2023/10/14/msnbcs-punishment-for-pro-hamas-propaganda-ratings-death/

  37. JohnTyler induces in me (or introduces here) a number of questions, some of those extremely difficult, if not even impossible to see obvious answers to. Why so? Simply due to paradox. Or dilemma.

    “Israel needs”, and “Israel has no choice” are key phrases here.

    I step back a moment: what, on the other hand, does Israel *want* regarding Gaza? Does Israel *want* (desire) to possess Gaza? Well, no, it doesn’t. Gaza is not and so far as I can see, never has been incuded in the well know expression “the Land of Israel”, in stark contradistinction to the so-called “West Bank” or Judea and Samaria.

    Hence, if you take my intention, the paradox. Or is the term dilemma more apt? If so, let that be the expression then.

    So. On the one hand, Hamas together with any other threatening enemy — Islamic Jihad, or others — Israel must, as of necessity (“needs”) eliminate now from Gaza and never allow to arise hereafter. On the other hand, Israel has no desire to *occupy* and govern Gaza, nor will Israel obliterate every soul who lives there, nor even, I go so far as to presume, will Israel *expel* every Arab from the place.

    What then to do? Anyone may ponder that question.

    First, however, conquer the place *Gaza*. This, despite the great cost in lives and treasure which will be incurred. Throw down and crush whatever is taken for *government* there. Eliminate all and every identifiable enemy in the place, reduce and destroy every weapon or facility of threat. Pacify the place, albeit by force of arms.

    Now what to do beyond a period of necessary yet undesired occupation? Don’t wish to claim sovereignty over it? Fine. Don’t.

    So be it. Find some nation [absolutely not an international body of any sort] which — acceptable to the Israeli people, of course — can claim sovereignty, which can govern the place (and at a profit, by god), which has the people and resources to colonize the place, control such inhabitants as remain, build decent lives for all and make the place do good.

    Or — and this is really nuts, as if the forgoing weren’t already nuts enough! — hand the thing over to Elon Musk to be his kingdom and rocketbase. I gotta stop.

  38. The Romans sold Jewish slaves in Gaza. Details of the Roman holocaust are similarly gruesome to Hamas’s butchery, albeit more about business and crushing disobedience.

  39. You’ve got that right, Banned Lizard. I started reading Simon Montefiore’s Jerusalem: A Biography and could barely stomach reading the early chapters about the Roman conquest of the city and slaughter of the Jews.

  42. The year is not over

    Going into gaza reminds me of the colonial marines incursion.

  43. All this destruction makes me think about what the Gazans COULD have had.

    Before its civil war Beirut was known as “The Paris of the Middle East.” It had a thriving tourist industry. Tourists from all over the Middle East and Europe came to the water-front hotels with their beaches. They visited the nightclubs in a town that was free and open to all. The less-religious-strictness of Lebanon meant that those Arabs from more conservative societies such as Saudi Arabia could come to “let their hair down” and they did; they loved to go to the Beirut nightclubs to watch belly dancing, All while spending their oil money to add to Lebanon’s economy!

    Gaza City could have had the same; with a less religious strict society (when compared to the Saudis anyway) they could have had those Saudis come to spend their oil money. With water-front property they could have had international investors build nice hotels, put in place a lot of water recreation on the beaches (parasailing on the Mediterranean anyone?) and boats on the water. Just think of how much fun a boat cruise from Gaza City to Tel Aviv might be (I think it is about 50 miles by sea)! Oh, the possibilities are limited only by imagination and a lack of peace.

    No, instead of all these great possibilities, the “authorities” would prefer to have the civilians live in poverty living off international handouts. International handouts would be easier to skim money off of to squirrel away to Swiss bank accounts. Money that locals earned themselves by working in the hotels, nightclubs, and the tourism industry might lead to an angry population when they discovered the “authorities” would steal some.

    No, they have found it better to let their civilians live in such dire conditions and blame Israel instead of building up a safe, civilized society that others would want to come visit. That is how strong their hatred for Jews is – better to spend one’s lifetime trying to kill Jews than to build a better life for fellow Muslims.

    And I think of the terror tunnels network under Gaza; just think of the resources put into those. Those resources could have been used to create civilian bomb shelters!

    It is only an “open-air prison” because the Palestinian authorities have chosen to make it so.

  44. RE: The problem of what to do with the “Palestinians”

    Let’s suppose that the Israeli army succeeds in breaking the back of Hamas–finding and killing all of it’s leaders, identifying and also killing all of those terrorists who invaded Israel and committed all of their horrendous atrocities, destroying it’s infrastructure and it’s weapon manufacturing capacity, it’s supplies of weapons, ammunition, and rockets.

    Killing because I’m assuming that the Israelis are smart enough not to want a situation similar to ours with Guantanamo—not killing, but imprisoning some of these terrorists for years while various legal maneuvers play out, with no actual trials or punishment in sight–and giving these terrorists, and those behind them–all sorts of opportunities to use their imprisonment for propaganda purposes.

    Say also that the Israeli army succeeds in finding and rescuing a majority, or even all of the hostages.

    Then what?

    Given the existing temper of the Muslim population of Gaza, what does, what can Israel do to make it very unlikely that any terrorist organization like Hamas rises again in the Gaza?

    What does, what can Israel do with these radicalized “Palestinians,” likely to be even more radicalized after this war comes to it’s end?

    I don’t imagine that Israel wants to just temporarily occupy Gaza again.

    Somehow get the surrounding Muslim countries to do what they have never wanted to do and, that is, to take these troublesome Palestinians in, and try to integrate them into their individual societies?

    Push the Palestinians out of the Gaza and have Israelis permanently occupy the Gaza, incorporating it into the state of Israel, making the Palestinians themselves homeless?

    I don’t think that that would fly.

    Obviously the prior arrangements didn’t work.

    What can Israel do which will yield a reasonable chance of leading to real, lasting, long-term security for Israel, when it has the Gaza and it’s Palestinians on Israel’s border?

  45. Gaza had few prospects of that sort it was a backwater under the brits and later the egyptians

  46. Ask the Carthaginians. They are dependent on the UN, Qatar, and Iran to keep their genocidal dream alive. That can change.

  47. Well, contaminating the shallow aquifers below Gazaland with sea water and human pathogens would be another unforeseen consequence for the Hamasites/Gazamites. How sad for them. FAFO

    om:

    The Gaza aquifer is already contaminated:
    ________________________________________

    Some two million Gazans suffer from a constant shortage of water, which gets worse in summer. The tap water is salty and polluted and is not fit for drinking. In the absence of other alternatives, residents are forced to use this water for bathing and washing, yet the supply is irregular and unpredictable. For drinking and cooking, they no choice to buy water privately – despite severe financial hardship – and even then it is usually substandard.

    The shortage of water in the Gaza Strip and the substandard quality of tap water have been known for years. The coastal aquifer, which Gaza relies on as its only water source, has been polluted by over-pumping and wastewater contamination. As a result, 96.2% of household water from the aquifer is non-potable. Moreover, about 40% of the domestic water supply is lost on the way to consumers because of Gaza’s outdated infrastructure.

    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/water-gaza-scarce-polluted-and-mostly-unfit-use
    ________________________________________

    It would be sad were it not their own fault for focusing on killing Jews instead taking care of their own people.

  48. On the TV show, 60 Minutes, Biden “has warned Israel NOT to occupy Gaza”.

    Here’s a link to that news article.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-joe-biden-2023-60-minutes-transcript/

    OK, Mr. Biden, [how] do you think that is possible?

    As I understand it:

    Israel’s government, + Gaza’s government, are in [a fight to the death] with each other, in the current, war in Israel.

    I think Biden wants a plan, immediately, for- Israel, Gaza, + Palestine, to [change their hearts], and to want peace, + to make a peaceful solution.

    Mr. Biden…these two or more groups of people have been fighting each other, + apposing each other, for CENTURIES, and you thought your. “I’ll be friends with ALL the sides of this Middle East problem”, was going to [solve] the problem between these groups?

    I wonder if that was your plan. I really do.

    This is just my opinion: Mr. Biden, I believe that if you tell [any group] in this problem [what to do], then this situation will become a disaster.

    I think you have misread the complexities of this problem.

  49. Hes a moron i dont know who hes listening to this is an existential crisis for israel

  50. huxley:

    So the Hamasites are operating true to form; genocide takes priority over essential services, and the Gazamites put up with it. Saltwater and sh*t in the drinking water to be blamed on Israel?

  52. Looking at all of these pictures of what is happening on the ground in Gaza, I can’t help but notice that the vast majority–say, 98% or so–of the people pictured in the streets are males of military age.

  54. Neo, I have been trying to post a comment on Gaza water infrastructure, to point out that Hamas has dug up EU-donated water pipes to turn into rockets, but the comment got blocked

    Not Acceptable!
    An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod_Security.

    This is my fourth attempt to post. The second time I took out the links. The third time I greatly simplified the post. Still blocked. So, I took out my VPN and changed name and email.

    Formerly known as Gringo

  55. }}} On Saturday it said Hamas was actively preventing travel south with roadblocks on major roads.

    Wow. THAT one is EASY to fix. Israel just needs to make some very tight air-strikes. Problem solved.

    😀

  56. Gringo (Saber):

    That “Unacceptable” thing happens from time to time when I post comments. So I turn the VPN off and the coment is accepted and then I turn the VPN back on. The “Unacceptable” behavior stops for a while and accepts comemts with the VPN active.

    A puzzle.

  57. An important detail in the propaganda war touches on population density. An open-air prison sounds like a. there is no land at all and b. there is absolutely no place for anyone to move. But that is not true. How many of us have heard that Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth?

    In fact, according to the BBC, the average population density in the strip (140 sq miles) is 5k, with Gaza city rising to 9k people per square mile. If this is really horrible, then so are places like Hong Kong (6.7k/ sq mile), London (14.5/sq mile), and NYC (27k/ sq mile).

    As we are seeing clearly (and many knew this before) the choice of locating places of war near civilians is a choice made by Hamas, and not driven by lack of space.

  58. From the 60 Minutes transcript:

    Scott Pelley: Is Iran behind the Gaza war?

    President Biden: I don’t wanna get into classified information. But to be very blunt with you, there is no clear evidence of that.

    Scott Pelley: At this point, no evidence that Iran is behind any of this?

    President Biden: Correct. Now, Iran constantly supports Hamas and Hezbollah. I don’t mean that. But in terms of were they– w– did they have foreknowledge; did they help plan the attack– the– there’s– there’s no evidence of that at this point.

    https://www.memri.org/reports/iranian-regime-mouthpiece-kayhan-iran-mind-and-hands-behind-hamas-operation-al-aqsa-flood

    and

    https://www.memri.org/reports/qatar-enabling-hamas-war-against-israel

  61. The question to me is: how much of the Bide Crime Family is owned by Iran & Qatar et al., and how many cut-outs did they use to make the pay-offs?
    The Arabs at least seem to be smart enough not to use Hunter & Jim Biden, but they already had channels through Obama Inc which they may have repurposed.

    Or the support of Biden Inc for the anti-Israel coalitions maybe a freebie out of ideological comity.

  64. One of the Obama – Palestinian connections from Powerline.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/10/palestinian-terror-flashback.php
    Last year marked half a century since Palestinian terrorists abducted, tortured and murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. The 50th anniversary did not get the attention it deserved, and a key sequel escaped attention.

    The mastermind of the massacre was Muhammad Abu Yousef al-Najjar. His grandson, calling himself Ammar Campa-Najjar, worked on Obama’s 2012 campaign, served in the Obama White House and federal Labor Department, and ran for Congress in California in 2018 and 2020. How that all came about is a matter of some mystery.

  65. I suspect we’re about to witness the 2002 “Jenin Massacre” Part II. The IDF better act quick cuz world opinion is gonna turn on them lickety-split quick.
    We’ve seen this movie before.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

↑