RIP Vaclav Havel
A brave man, dead at 75 after a long, fruitful, and eventful life that had many twistings and turnings, Havel went from prison as a dissident to a long tenure as president during a time of transition from the Communism he fought so long.
RIP.
No. Vaclav was a spoiled rich kid who was manipulated by Communists and his name is not appreciated by true Czecks.
Curtis – You should learn to spell “Czechs” before belittling one of them.
As a fellow Czech, I consider Havel to have been a patriot, leader, hero and a man of courage.
He was the Czech equivalent of the young man in China who was willing to stand in front of a tank.
Farewell, Vaclav.
Seems Vaclav may have been a bit confused sometimes. He despised communism but supported the Czech Green Party. Anything green is from communist ideology.
D.J., yes, I should larn how ow s]ell.
But, sometimes, the message survives.
I’m saying what many Czhecks are saying:
for instance,
In 2003, he was awarded the International Gandhi Peace Prize, named after Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi by the government of India for his outstanding contribution towards world peace and upholding human rights in most difficult situations through Gandhian means.
Looks really like an attempt to create a narrative.
But you are right in that I should not say “true,” because every Czcheck is due his own opinion whether or not I agree with it. They are great people and make one hell of a grate Krismas party.
Vaclav, however, if you ask the people of his own country, was tainted. Before we began the process of lionizing him, we should look at some of the facts.
It is a country of extraordinary people who were betrayed by Neville Chamberlian’s obesiance. 48 mountain divisions! Fighting men that were surrendered. Mountain divisions!
Perhaps Sergay can corroborate. But the whole history of WWII would not have happened except for the loss of those divisions.
What would the world look like today if those mountain divisons had been allowed to fight?
What do Neville Chamberlain, Munich, and the 48 CZECH mountain divisions have to do with Vaclav Havel? He was 2 or 3 years old in 1938? Lost me there.
I am Czech. I HAVE asked the people of his own country and, while there might be some disagreement with particular policies, none have called him “tainted.”
Was he “manipulated” by the communists while he was in their prisons?
You make little to no sense. However, everyone is entitled to an opinion – but, to paraphrase Animal Farm, some opinions are more equal than others, i.e. informed
There are many WWII “what ifs”, but the question is what would Havel have done about Chamberlain selling out Czechoslovakia — he was about 3 at the time.
Recommend this appreciation of Vaclav Havel from the NY Sun:
http://www.nysun.com/editorials/vaclav-havel/87615
Curtis has established himself as a fruitcake. Engage brain first next time,
Havel, like 99.9%, of us was a mere human being. Did he have flaws? Was he at times compromised? Yes and yes. But in the totality of his brief moment of sunlight on the everlasting grass he was a great human being. RIP.
Vaclav was a smart puppet and i am part of that area as i am part of latvia
Why not tick off the international reorg of leaders in key places these past few years to move the chess pieces
From a plane crash removing all mil leaders and the assasination of a citizen who filmed the wreckage w gun shots to bhutto to a bunch others
The dark horse is on the move and things are never more than surface imagry for consumption
Pride goeth before the fall
It is such foolish pride that put Obama in and such has most saying everyone but my guy is tainted!
If Remained so long in a sattelite as leader then he was a puppet
Take a look at mccain
U would think that being tortured w turn one off to all socialiam and such control, no?
don carlos, i dont particularly care for name calling when the one doing the calling also knows less.
time for a bit of dodger history
havel came to power during the velvet revolution (i am borrowing a laptop)
have you read or do you know about petr cibulka? (did i spell that right cause we all know that content is not important stimage is, right?)
petr is and got in a lot of trouble for thinking that the revolution ended communism there. he went so far as to publish a STB (Czech KGB equivalent) list of 160,000 communists still working in the Czech government.
rather than use that list to removethem as petr called for, vaclav havel and his civic forum instead went after him.
the coupe was not what it seemd to be
it was a privatization coupe. that is, much like east germany when the wall felll state owned things had to then be owned and run by someone, and so they were put in the hands of communbists.
it was they that became rulers and owners.
havels family was very wealthy and worked closely with the gestapo (like soros in a way).
as petr says how come there are no anticommunist heroes in the republic now?
the media in that country as inthe us is notfree they do news much like liberal press does and you have to dig externally to find things
do some looking into bill clinton (his soviet exchange student status under fukbright) lubor kohout and the kopold family. a high family in the communist history
also follow the line of history from operation vampire.. to operation paperclip and try to understand that global factions are at play and all of them intend to enslave and own the world. none of them are on the side of any kind of freedom you might think of.
all of this flows back to moscow, and always does. all you have to do is study and read and not forget on day 2 what you read on day 10
kgb gru and stb all know that who controls the information and its presentation controls peoples reality and opinions.
you basically have three large factions…
the bigger problem is that most people dont care
doyou know this stuff and more don carlos?
at least curtis hunch would get him reading what would yours do? put you and all believers asleep?
if havel was such a anti communist hero, why let 160,000 remain?
would you let a force larger than an invasion army run your country connected to external masters?
What do Neville Chamberlain, Munich, and the 48 CZECH mountain divisions have to do with Vaclav Havel?
In 1945, after the
defeat of Nazi Germany, Havel’s family was not charged with collaborating
with the Nazis. Almost immediately, it is believed, they began cooperating
with Soviet military intelligence and also the KGB and therefore were
protected by the communists.
kind of silly to think that a persons family and friends of such have no bearing on a persons nature and loyalties… look at the obama clan and similar
they did a lot of work cleaning up the history.. but you can find all kinds of stuff now there is the internet
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0369726/bio
When the Germans occupied Czechoslovakia in 1939, they took over A-B’s Barrandov film studios, leaving it to the Protectorate’s Czech “government” to give Milos some compensation. It was also allowed that, sometimes, Lucernafilm (re-born in 1937) could use the studios. To do that, Milos had to deal with the Nazis but he remained a Czech patriot and was even prepared to take serious risks, e.g. when helping a German-speaking “Dr. Holm”, in fact an anti-Nazi agent Paul Thuemmel, who was later arrested by the Gestapo and executed.
milos brother, Vé¡clav Kopecky, was vaclavs father
and what was mr kopecky involved in?
how about “All-State Peace Conference”?
in January 1958 by the Central Committee of National Front and the CsVON; the main speaker. CSCP Politburo member Vaclav KOPECKY, delivered a speech on the “Peace Manifesto” approved by Communist and worker Parties in MOSCOW in November 1957.
what was the CSCP and whats its history with moscow?
its the czech communist party.. and it was under kruschev that the history connects to
remember if you buy the book use Neo 🙂
its by Oleh Nicholas Khoo
http://tinyurl.com/7jrema5
the link should go to some interesting history
especially the quotes towards how the whole of communism should respond
hey didnt both Havel and Obama also get peace prizes?
Stalin said that the definition of peace under communism was no more opposition to communism world wide…
interesting stuff…
but i seldom have anyone to talk to who even knows a smidgeon of what i do across knolwedge domains.
but dont the wiki says this?
“His father, Vé¡clav Maria Havel, was the owner of the suburb Barrandov which was located on the highest point of Prague and of Barrandov film studios.”
funny how the history of vaclav does gio to that studio and milos, but dont mention the name change which would then link to
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2499583
and that mentions kopecky as a founding member of the CSCP…
another interesting read…
Prague in black
Nazi rule and Czech nationalism
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/resources/educators/pdf/BRYPRA.pdf
however they removed the pages about kopecky who is still in the index…
are they two people or one?
its not so easy to tell and a lot more is in czech
Thanks, Artfldgr.
Don Janousek, I should have found a better way to bring up the subject, something more like Parker said. Vaclav reminds me of the “great” men of courage we are told to admire, like, Teddy Kennedy, in that he was an elitist, alcoholic, womanizer with suspect sympathies.
Artfldgr writes,”Almost immediately, it is believed, they began cooperating
with Soviet military intelligence and also the KGB and therefore were
protected by the communists.”
“It is believed”??? That is beneath you, Art, even in a citation.
BTW, 1958 was 53 years ago. The measure of a man at his death should be based on more than his going with the flow while in his 20s. Most of us are rudderless leaves floating in a massive river’s current at that age, and we only gradually develop our rudders over time. That we gradually steer in the better direction is what matters.
I am with Parker on Havel. I am not steeped in eastern European history a la Art, but I think I have developed a sense of proportion in evaluating a man’s total life history.
Then why leave 160000 termites in place unless u share the same master and cause?
There never was any form of removal as in de nazification and Russia got to Germany first and seized the records
in such a regime u are with them or your out
the very ability to stay long tells you what u need to know
b Clinton went as an exchange student to user under Fulbright. If he was not of like mind he would never have stayed. Their breaking in and moving things around would have been unsettling enough and it’s still a common tactic
doos blog with links to wretched anti-Havels:
http://www.chequerboard.org/2011/12/apologists-for-communist-totalitarianism-i-hate-those-guys/