Pursuing vengeance: on prosecuting Trump
I have been disturbed for quite some time by the attempts by Trump’s enemies to get him convicted of something. Almost anything will do.
First it was the effort to impeach him, which took many forms but never resulted in conviction. Concurrent with that were various attempts to get him on sexual grounds – Avenatti and Stormy Daniels, for example. Now that Trump’s out of office, there has been a predictable focus on a conviction for some crime or other. This centers on New York state, controlled by Democrats and a place in which Trump once lived and did a lot of business.
In case you’re wondering why Trump didn’t issue himself a pardon while in office that would cover future prosecutions, I’ll add that a president can only issue pardons for federal crimes and this is a state crime that New York is intent on pursuing.
Here’s an editorial by Missouri’s AG on the subject of the legal pursuit of Trump:
Now…New York Attorney General Letitia James is pursuing a contemptible criminal probe of President Donald J. Trump. Without any knowledge or facts, James campaigned for attorney general in 2018 on a promise to target President Trump, his family and his businesses. In her campaign, James claimed, without evidence, that the president conspired with foreign governments, obstructed justice, and committed money laundering. Promising to criminally prosecute political opponents with no evidence of wrongdoing is about as dangerous to the Republic and rule of law as you can find in the United States.
As recently highlighted by Donald Trump Jr. on Tucker Carlson’s show, AG James is now making good on her campaign promise to not only prosecute President Trump but also members of his family. This is an affront to justice. As the state’s chief law enforcement official, she is keeping her promise in an unprecedented political prosecution in search of a crime, with taxpayers footing the bill even as New York deals with a violent crime crisis…
…Trump Derangement Syndrome does not provide legal cover. The public rightfully expects prosecutors to carry out our responsibilities without political prejudice. Threatening political enemies with indictments, criminal investigations and incarceration to settle political scores shows a deep contempt for the rule of law.
I wish that most Democrats saw it that way. I haven’t discussed this issue with any of my Democratic friends, but I believe I’m on safe ground in assuming that the majority of them would have no problem with it. After all, they already know that Trump is guilty, so why not serve “justice” and prove it?
You can do some things legally that you shouldn’t do. Many tyrannies use the letter of the law to wreak tyranny. But people often wish vengeance on those they perceive as their enemies, and can justify things they would be against if the tables were turned.
The latest on the egregious Avenatti, once considered by the so-called “reliable sources” on CNN as presidential material. is that the prosecutors are hoping for significant prison time in the case of his brazen attempt to extort money from Nike (not that anyone should have any sympathy for that grotesquely “woke” corporation). The sentencing is scheduled for next week in NYC; concerning NY’s odious AG, the less said, the better.
Even the USSR, after Stalin, and the CCP, after Mao, decided that those who had been at the highest levels, but had fallen out of favor of those in power, would only be “put out to pasture” not run through the “criminal” system like people in the lesser positions.
The law is an ass but the people behind it are worse.
Just a continuation of the James Comey Clown Show from July 2016. A bunch of educated but amoral pigs.
Presumably James has hired her an Andrew Weissmann to do the actual work. Between the time she completed law school and the time she was admitted to the bar, the New York State bar exam was administered three or four times. NB, the percentage of lawyers admitted who require more than two passes at the examination is in the single digits. She spent ten years working as a public defender and legal aid lawyer. She hasn’t practiced at all in > 20 years. It wouldn’t surprise me if she actually fancied it was normal practice to initiate investigations of someone just because you felt like this. She’ll need some agile legal talent to dream up the sophistries to provide cover for judges who want to collaborate in this foul enterprise.
More about Letitia James: in the primary she defeated a law professor (who is the rare Democrat who tells the truth now and again) and then in the general election the managing partner of a BigLaw firm (also black) for whom the attorney-general’s office would have been a (big) step down. In more than four decades as a state resident, I’ve never encountered anyone who had much respect for the state government (and wasn’t drawing a salary from it). Well, you can see with what New York voters, quite gratuitously, have saddled themselves.
You all like Heinlein: “Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death. There is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.”
It isn’t vengeance, by the way. Trump hasn’t done any injury to these people. This is just vicious aggression.
Art Deco:
Vengeance for imagined wrongs.
If he makes it through the gauntlet, he will be stronger than any of them realize… they would have certified him… its going to blow up in their faces for this reason… I said long ago i have met him, and know several people who have that much cash in their wallets and most of them are honest as a defense against the dishonest with pull…
the other thing is that political winds are never consistent… those siding with this today, may easily find themselves on the other side of this later… if they could do that to a billionaire, what could they do to lesser peoples who are lesser only in defense? and this WILL happen given the things they are backing are asking for their eventual extermination openly… they just dont realize they are the subjects
Once upon a time, cooler heads would have reminded James, and all the other New York prosecutors of various pedigree that wheels do turn, and those who use the state prosecutorial powers for ill, will have their turn, and those powers used on them.
But there ain’t no cooler heads, these days.
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Hate blinds to counterproductive actions. Turning Trump into a martyr for those on the right would strengthen spines and focus minds. It would remove doubt for the many who still wish for “can’t we all just get along?”
“those who use the state prosecutorial powers for ill, will have their turn, and those powers used on them.” Gordon Scott
That would be so if they weren’t ideological fanatics. Remember the dialectic of the left; “When I am the weaker, I ask you for mercy because that is your principle. But when I am the stronger, I show you no mercy because that is my principle“.
@geoffb:
“ Even the USSR, after Stalin, and the CCP, after Mao, decided that those who had been at the highest levels, but had fallen out of favor of those in power, would only be “put out to pasture” not run through the “criminal” system like people in the lesser positions.”
Yes, but this is a lesson has to be learned through hard experience after piling up the bodies.
South Korean presidential politics is rather a blood sport and not too many of them enjoying happy retirements, so it’s not unheard of even in supposedly advanced countries.
Trump has more utility as a wake up call to Normies at this stage than as an actual President, so while I feel a bit sorry for him, bring it on.
GB, “Remember the dialectic of the left; “When I am the weaker, I ask you for mercy because that is your principle. But when I am the stronger, I show you no mercy because that is my principle“.”
I had heard of a similar thing said in Islam, but then the Left is also a merger of religious fanaticism and political power lust.
Your democrat friends are fascists.
I think the Democratic Party started this mess by nominating Hillary in 2016. The woman really should have, at a minimum, had to plead out and agree not to hold public office again. Her conduct was egregious. It takes a whopping combination of intelligence and delusion to convince one’s self that there is a meaningful difference between “gross negligence” and “extreme carelessness. ” Expecting the political opposition to recognize such a distinction (or to tolerate having it shoved down their throat) was madness.
Trump didn’t help any with his “lock her up” nonsense. Regardless of the situation with Hillary, he really was traversing a norm about criminalizing politics. Its difficult to feel sympathy for him personally. To an extent, he’s been hoist with his own petard, and continues to be.
You really need two things to have a healthy political culture that doesn’t criminalize opposition: a (somewhat) virtuous elite; and a modicum of restraint. We have neither and we are all worse off for it.
“Find me the man, I’ll find you the crime” – Lavrenti Beria
Trump didn’t help any with his “lock her up” nonsense.
Trump did no injury to anyone saying “lock her up”, which is only ‘nonsense’ in the breezy space between your ears. She’d committed a crime for which she was being allowed to skate. We have a passably good idea of why she did it, and when she was discovered her minions engaged in spoilation of evidence.
So what will she be known for best?
Peddler of influence internationally (to the point of compromising the office of Secretary of State)?
Coiner of the golden phrase for grifters everywhere—“What difference does it make?” (which would appear to encapsulate her political outlook entirely)?
Coiner of the platinum phrase for the ages—“Basket of deplorables”—whose spare eloquence beats even the Gettysburg Address for brevity and impact”
The person whose “It takes a village” segued seamlessly into the heartfelt sentiment that all whites (including kids) are born racist?
The computer illiterate who seemed to have a penchant for collecting servers for personal and professional use?
The criminal who believed it was her manifest destiny to be POTUS…and almost succeeded?
The battle-hardened politico who, in refusing to believe that she lost an election (though it stands to reason that she garnered a lot of fraudulent votes in the process…alas, not enough, not enough), unleashed a Civil War in the country she purportedly loves?
Connoisseur of hot peppers and single-malt whiskey?
Hotshot lawyer?
Friend (or rather former friend) of the accident prone?
Adoring wife, parent and grandparent?
File under: A woman for all seasons….
BrooklynBoy on June 23, 2021 at 9:00 am said:
“Find me the man, I’ll find you the crime” – Lavrenti Beria. That was supposedly said to Stalin and the entire Soviet justice system was based on that for political issues (crimes). This is totally unAmerican but our civil liberties organizations are generally silent. That disgusts me.
This is not the Soviet Union, so if they charge Trump they are poking 75,000,000 Americans in the eye who will rally, and knowing the Democrats, they will send in their ANTIFA Black Shirts; If the police ignore the safety of the legal demonstrations being attacked by the Dem’s Black Shirts, as with the Proud Boys outside of Portland, violence will ensue.
The Dem’s Black Shirts have been attacking attendees of a conservative convention in Denver and again no police protection as happened last year in a support the police rally. How can anyone support the police when they violate their duty because of politicians orders; where are their associations. I applaud what the special unit did in Portland by resigning their membership in the SWAT type unit.
I am not violence prone unless one violates my rights; then I am a total threat to their life and limbs. I have zero tolerance for the Dem’s Black Shirts actions against normal people. I put up with the verbal and some physical attacks in the past 55 years when supporting Goldwater, other GOP candidates and as a county director of our TEA Party, but NO MORE for this 76 yo.
It’s not just vengence, it’s also an element of fear that motivates these nasty little creatures. Obviously they are terrified of Trump getting back into power. They’ll dig and dig and dig until they find something… anything remotely prosecutable. But they’ll have to do better than some circumstantial notion that Trump may have had some crooked government functionairies or union leaders paid off to get something built in New York City at some point (which is pretty much par for the course there anyway if you want to get any construction done I imagine).
The attempted prosecution of Trump, as with the incarceration of the Jan. 6th people, and “cancel-culture” in general, is an example of “kill the chicken, let the monkey watch.” They are not so much to cause great harm to Trump or the Jan. 6th-ers, though if they do – that is seen as a good thing, as to set an example for all others out there of what will happen to them if they even think of doing something similar.
Art+Deco – You really struggle to deal with different points of view without resorting to personal insults. You should work on that.
Anyway, Hillary Clinton is a crooked miscreant who had no business being a major party nominee, let alone president and Trump was wrong to lead his supporters in chanting “lock her up.” Both of those things can be true at the same time. Acknowledging the latter in no way negates the former.
Art+Deco – You really struggle to deal with different points of view without resorting to personal insults. You should work on that.
I don’t struggle at all. Don’t make contrived complaints, and people won’t point out you’re being a tool.
. Acknowledging the latter
You’re not acknowledging anything at all. You’re just striking poses.
Trump’s superpower is the ability to make his enemies reveal their true nature.
“…they are terrified…”
And they are absolutely right to be.
Very rarely can such a crime-ridden organization get away with such massive, multi-dimensional lawlessness for such an extended period.
(Of course, it does help if one has the insatiably corrupt media and infotech in one’s corner to control the sacred narrative; if one has suborned the nation’s DOJ and espionage and LE agencies to do one’s dirty work sub-, and not so sub-, rosa; and if one can steal elections at will and cover them up—together with the rest of their malfeasance—under an awfully capacious carpet while exhorting far and wide that they are doing all of this “FOR THE PEOPLE” even as they demonize relentlessly anyone and everyone who just might object to their megalomanic malevolence, their profound perversity and their rampant—though, as we see above, for good reason—paranoia.)
Who was it who said that the evil get no rest?….
@ Yancy Ward:
That’s why I never had much of a problem with him, even less as time went on.
It is not just me, but what you said is probably exactly why so many people like him. He disrupted behavior that needs, and needed to be, disrupted.
Good luck with Washington politicians and bureaucrats on that.
People in Washington act like they are as pure as the wind-driven snow, and anyone who disagrees is a “conspiracy theorist.” However, there is a whole field of economics that explains, or tries to explain, much of their behavior (public choice), though not all necessarily (ethical, criminal, and possibly criminal aspects). What appears to many right now is a cover-up (or, more accurately, “cover-ups”), for good reason.
Trump is Jean Valjean and Letitia seems to be Javert.
“Trump’s superpower is the ability to make his enemies reveal their true nature.” – Yancey
It appears to be activated in the presence of supposed allies as well.
Here is an article on public choice theory at the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics (1st edition; a link to a revised article for the 2nd edition is also available at the top), a field in economics that I mentioned in my post above:
https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/PublicChoiceTheory.html
There is a lot, lot, lot more at the link, and it is well worth reading, but here is a small quote:
One of the characteristics of a banana republic is the criminalization of politics. It is the use of the criminal justice system to get rid of your opponents. It relies on power unchecked by ethics or elections. We have been sliding further into being a full blown banana republic. The LIVs don’t know what’s happening and the MSM carries the water for the politicians that they support. If Trump is taken down we will have become a full blown banana republic. All that will be lacking is a military junta governing the country. 🙁
“There is no direct reward for fighting powerful interest groups in order to confer benefits on a public that is not even aware of the benefits or of who conferred them. Thus, the incentives for good management in the public interest are weak.” – HumphreyP
This may be why conservatives get so little traction in Federal politics, and why “liberals” don’t start taking action until the “public choices” of the interest groups actually start mugging them up close and personal, as we are seeing in the majority-Democrat school districts where parents are starting to fight back against CRT.
As for creating “incentives for good management,” that is supposedly what elections are for. They seem to be working in Florida and Texas, and a few other states, but as ArmyMom’s example showed, cleaning CRT out of the schools across the state(s) will be a “house-to-house, hand-to-hand” battle even after the “big bombs” are dropped by the governors & legislatures.
“I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or it they try, they will shortly be out of office.” – Milton Friedman
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/738162-i-do-not-believe-that-the-solution-to-our-problem
Cross-posted my comment here, since the topics overlap:
https://www.thenewneo.com/2021/06/22/five-tenets-of-crt-and-what-they-mean/#comment-2561067
What’s even dumber is that James is pursuing him on the theory that he “over-valued his properties”. As if any of us have a say in what our properties are worth. Dear Tax Man: My house is worth zero dollars and zero cents, my tax bill is therefore zero.
Morons.
Governed by the Lower Left side of the Bell Curve
And yet . . . people are completely on board with all of this. Pro-crime Soros stooge prosecutors Kim Gardner in St. Louis and Larry Krasner in Philadelphia were both re-elected by huge margins, and Letitia James is a lock to do so next year in far left New York as well.
It will take more than votes to correct this.