Why don’t they just stone Chauvin to death and get it over with?
I’m sure they would find plenty of eager participants.
What am I talking about? This:
The DOJ is now planning to indict [Chauvin] and the three other cops involved in Floyd’s death on civil rights charges, a source told the Tribune.
The federal investigation into Floyd’s death is separate to the state’s case which led to Chauvin’s trial and conviction last week.
[The federal case] has been running in parallel with federal authorities presenting evidence before a grand jury of 23 citizens who will decide if there is probable cause to bring charges against the disgraced officers.
The three other cops – J. Alexander Kueng, Thomas Lane and Tou Thao – face trial together on August 23 on state charges of aiding and abetting second-degree murder and manslaughter. They deny those allegations, and were fired from their jobs at Minneapolis PD in the wake of Floyd’s death.
The Minnesota AG’s Office wants to also add a charge of aiding and abetting third-degree murder to each of their cases.
Now, the DOJ wants to indict Chauvin on federal civil rights violations over both Floyd’s death and a 2017 incident where he knelt on a black 14-year-old boy’s neck for nearly 17 minutes.
Kueng, Lane and Thao would only be indicted over Floyd’s death.
A knee on the neck of a 14-year-old for 17 minutes. What a vicious, racist brute – right? Lost is the fact that the Minneapolis police listed that hold in its recommended ways to subdue resistant offenders (it has since been removed from the manual, post-Floyd). Lost also are these other facts, which I would consider salient [emphasis mine]:
Prosecutors detail the Sept. 4, 2017, arrest in the court filing, saying Chauvin and another officer named Wells responded to a domestic assault call in which the mom said she’d been assaulted by her son and daughter.
After 33 seconds of talking to the boy, telling him he was being arrested, both officers grabbed him and when he resisted, Chauvin hit him with a flashlight twice, at which point the boy called out for his mom and said they were hurting him, prosecutors say.
Chauvin then asked the other officer to Taser the boy, but he didn’t have one, so Chauvin applied a neck restraint that caused the boy to lose consciousness and go to the ground, prosecutors said. The officers handcuffed him behind his back while Chauvin knelt on him for about 17 minutes until after paramedics arrived and they put him in an ambulance.
During the time Chauvin’s knee was on his back, the boy – whose ear was bleeding – repeatedly told officers he couldn’t breathe and asked to be placed on his back, which didn’t happen, prosecutors said.
Another thing that didn’t happen was that being in that position for 17 minutes didn’t seem to physically harm the 14-year-old at all, much less kill him.
More, this time about what happened in some of the early stages of Chauvin’s recently-concluded trial, when the prosecution tried to introduce that incident with the 14-year-old, as well as other incidents in which Chauvin had used neck restraints, into evidence (the judge refused to allow the evidence) [emphasis mine]:
Chauvin’s attorney Eric Nelson responded to the state’s motion [to introduce video of the incident with the 14-year-old], arguing the video shouldn’t be admissible because the force Chauvin used in the 2017 arrest was in line with the department’s policy on dealing with uncooperative suspects, adding that Chauvin’s use of force was “reported to supervisors and cleared.”
“The state makes a point of noting that the suspect was rolled onto his stomach and cuffed while Mr. Chauvin used his knee and body weight to pin the suspect to the floor. As noted previously, this is how MPD officers are trained to handcuff individuals — particularly suspects who are resisting,” Nelson wrote, adding that there is “no marked similarity” between this incident and the Floyd incident.
The Minneapolis Police Department has since changed its use of force policy. In June, after Floyd’s death, it banned chokeholds and neck restraints.
I also looked at the court document filed by Nelson in Chauvin’s trial. It turns out there were eight incidents in which Chauvin used some form of neck restraint to subdue suspects, and it makes for very interesting reading if you want to learn the sort of thing police officers often encounter in the course of their jobs. In the document, the arrest of the 14-year-old is labeled “Incident 6”:
In each of the above incidents, as shown supra, Mr. Chauvin used takedown and restraint techniques taught and approved by the MPD. His “modus operandi” was simply that of a Minneapolis Police officer performing his duties and reacting as the circumstances, in which he was present and where the State’s attorneys were not, dictated. The State’s attempt to characterize these incidents as evidence of some kind of ill intent or common scheme of violence that is somehow unique to Chauvin is specious, at best. Finally, in each of the above incidents, the State attempts to characterize Mr. Chauvin’s use of force as “unreasonable” or “beyond what was needed.” Mr. Chauvin reported his use of force to the department in each of the above incidents,and in every single one, it was determined by a supervisor that Mr. Chauvin’s use of force was reasonable in the circumstances and authorized by law and MPD Policy. In essence, to the extent that his use of force was at all questioned — of which the State has offered no evidence — Mr. Chauvin was “acquitted” by MPD supervisors of applying force in a manner that was either unreasonable or unauthorized.
What appears to be happening here – and this is really not news – is that more or less normal and approved police behavior has been criminalized in light of changing political winds, and that criminalization will be applied ex post facto. The police are being continually stripped of the right to defend either themselves or others – and that includes the “others” who call them for help against violent attackers.
But we also can assume that, had the police not intervened and another attack occurred, that would probably be considered actionable as well.
Oh, and one more thing – that unnamed 14-year-old? He is described as having been 6’2″ and having weighed 240 at the time of his arrest by Chauvin. That’s more or less the size of George Floyd, who is reported to have been 6’6″ in life and 6’4″ at autopsy, weighing 223 pounds; and Michael Brown, who at 18 (when he was shot by Officer Wilson) is reported to have been 6’4″ and to have weighed 292 pounds.
The fact that the arrestee in “Incident 6” was 14 years old makes him sound like a small child, which he most definitely was not. In contrast, Derek Chauvin is 5’9″ and weighs 140. Having an officer of relatively diminutive stature (or a female officer who might not only be of small stature but of weaker upper body musculature) is obviously a potential problem in each encounter with a resistant suspect.
Not having seen the video of Chauvin’s encounter with the 14-year-old juvenile, I can’t even offer an opinion about whether his use of force was appropriate or not, except to note that it was cleared by his department – and to add that, had he not restrained this assailant and had the mother or anyone else been assaulted while Chauvin was there, I have little doubt there would be a hue and cry about that.
The issue of size is very important. Several years ago, leftists made much of the age (12) of Tamir Rice, who was shot and killed by police in Cleveland after a call was received concerning an individual brandishing, in public, what might or might not have been a deadly firearm. The responding officers, unaware of the fact that the gun was not real, confronted a person who was, as it turned out, in the sixth grade, but was also rather tall and weighing nearly 200 pounds.
Well, they can only stone Chauvin to death once, which would hardly satisfy the mob.
There is one thing I disagree with neo, where you say, “… had he not restrained this assailant and had the mother or anyone else been assaulted while Chauvin was there, I have little doubt there would be a hue and cry about that.”
No, there would have been no hue and cry, just as there would have been no “hue and cry” if the policeman in Columbus had let the knife assault take place. And that is exactly the point. Black lives do not “matter” to BLM and the rest of the left unless they can be used to advance their political agenda. I have no doubt there are black people who would be angry but their voices are not accorded the same stature as, say, Al Sharpton.
While they’re at it, they should blame Chauvin for the Chicago Fire & the San Francisco earthquakes & global warming.
He is now the designated white scapegoat. All our sins will be attributed to him, until the next white scapegoat appears.
The folks running this shitshow have ho idea where the last domino is going to fall & then the pile falls on them…then there’ll be no more scapegoating just a lot of bodies to bury.
FOAF:
I think you misunderstand my point.
The hue and cry I’m talking about – that I think would have occurred in both cases – is not about the activist crowd caring about black lives. It is about blaming the cop no matter what happens. An officer is faced with a set of choices in which he or she is destined to be blamed, whatever the officer chooses, if something goes wrong with the arrest. That “something” that goes wrong can either be an accusation of brutality by the person being arrested (or that person’s injury or death, even from a drug overdose). Or it can be allowing the perp to hurt someone else and not stopping them effectively from doing so. Or probably any number of other things, such as the person killing him or herself.
Really, anything that isn’t a perfect outcome.
tcrosse:
But they can then tie his body to a chariot and drag it around the city three times. That might do.
Worked for Achilles?
I feel more awful for those other three cops. Chauvin is getting screwed but at least an argument can be made he is guilty of something but those other three guys wow that is an outrage.
A 14-year-old may be legally a child, emotionally and intellectually a child, but many of them have adult bodies and are biological adults. They have size and strength of adults, and can bear or sire children like adults, but without the judgement and experience of adults.
It’s only on TV where parents are taller than teenagers (who are typically played by adults in their 20s and can’t be physically distinguished unless they are unusually short).
No I would not like to have to physically restrain a 6′ 4″ 240-lb 14 year old…
“The fact that the arrestee in “Incident 6” was 14 years old makes him sound like a small child, which he most definitely was not.”
For progressive propaganda purposes, any member of a victim class whose victimization is being discussed and is under the age of 20 is a “child.” I quote a leftist acquaintance: “George Zimmerman murdered a child.”
By itself, murder is not a violation of Civil Rights Act. Murder because of the victim’s race, etc., is the violation.
No evidence was introduced at Chauvin’s trial that he acted with racial animus. The prosecution never tried to show that he did. Their theory of the case was that he violated “standards” regarding use of force to restrain persons resisting arrest. Floyd’s race had nothing to do with it.
The DOJ is earning a deserved reputation for “piling on”. A long time ago that would draw a penalty flag in a high school football game.
Our system of injustice now has a set of tactics that we see too often. One is to overcharge as Mn did in the Chauvin case in which one act, with one outcome, triggers multiple charges. Another is to layer Federal charges on top of state charges; sometimes–although not in this case–for the same offense. Even this one is justified by the Floyd case. Like the old song lyric, ” One fist of iron, the other of steel. If the right one don’t a-get you. Then the left one will.”. Then, of course, there is the General Flynn tactic that has become so popular; “keep your victim lawyered up and twisting in the wind, until their finances are sucked dry, and their lives ruined”. No conviction required, possibly not even a trial, to inflict satisfying punishment.
Makes me sick.
News of the day, that won’t matter much. Two Law Enforcement Officers killed in North Carolina; another beaten to death in Delaware. Cops of one race, Perps of another. One guess.
The usual federal overreaching. It used to be DOJ policy to bring civil rights charges in cases like this only if the defendant was acquitted of the underlying crime in state court. The Rodney King case is a famous example.
Double jeopardy in practice, if not in theory.
I agree with Buster. Overreach. Double jeopardy.
I quote a leftist acquaintance: “George Zimmerman murdered a child.”
The ‘child’ in question (who was 17 years old and 5’11” tall) quite gratuitously walked 75 yards down an alley to attack a man who was loitering about waiting for the police to arrive. At the time he was ‘murdered’, he was on top of the man he attacked, practicing his MMA moves. The autopsy report, the eyewitness who testified under oath (and had a clear field of vision from 30 feet away), the crime scene photographs who show where Zimmerman was attacked (i.e. where he dropped his key chain) and show the wounds on the back of his head are all consistent with this summary. What does your friend say about that?
If can’t do the time, don’t do the crime!
Have fun in prison, assholes!
I understood your point perfectly neo and you are wrong. The purpose of these outcries is not only to criticize the police but to undermine the whole notion of law enforcement, pursuant to a radical agenda. Criticizing the police for not doing *enough* hardly accomplishes that. Unless I misheard and they were really saying “Refund the police!” instead of defund.
I never say never but I have a hard time recalling many incidents where there was a massive outcry because the police failed to do enough though I’m sure they may have happened. In particular I do not recall any outbursts or demonstrations or rioting on the scale of those that attended police encounters with Rodney King, Michael Brown and George Floyd. Maybe I just wasn’t paying attention.
Whenever the left gets involved, it’s not about whether Chauvin or any other cop acted illegally. It’s not about what the cop’s motivation may have been… it’s not about whether Chauvin or any cop violated anyone’s civil rights.
Those are not the issue. The issue is the demonization of policing. It’s a tactic to advance The Revolution, which is always the issue for the Left.
Take away every tool a cop might use and all that’s left is either shooting the perp or letting them go. Since a cop shooting a non-white perp is now a guaranteed trip to prison, the cops who remain are going to let the criminal go free. Crime will explode.
BTW, a white person, who defends themselves with lethal force, against a non-white attacker and… prosecution of you will follow because that serves the narrative.
What the cops who remain will do is act as the State’s enforcers of political correctness. Here’s a preview of what’s coming; “Christian preacher arrested in North London (raw)…”
The Christian pastors crime? Quoting from the Bible, which in the police state that the UK has become is now “hate speech” and thus a “hate crime”. https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/christian-preacher-arrested-in-north-london-raw/
Incidentally, the Scottish Parliament recently passed a law that makes quoting certain passages from the Bible in your own home a “hate crime”…
As more and more physical techniques are prohibited, “Don Wanna”, will get a firearms response. As more “suspects” are released without bail, I’m pretty sure that there will be many “No Shows” who couldn’t be bothered to appear for a hearing. Those are the ones who are likely to resist when they are stopped and have their ID run.
The political “activists” are creating a situation where the impulsive non-compliant will be getting the ultimate judgement on the side of the road, but better that than in my livingroom.
This is fascinating. We are privileged to be living witnesses to just how much folks will take from an irredeemably corrupt and oppressive government before there is a real insurrection. So much for the End of History.
2 of the cops charged in the Floyd persecution were in their first week on the job. They will most likely end up being convicted of something and sentenced with undue harshness. Their lives are in any event ruined.
Two of the cops are “Asian” which will do them no good-only victims count.
Makes me ill, all of it.
I keep thinking for some reason of Bruce Beresford’s classic “Breaker Morant.” Which was based on a book titled “Scapegoats of Empire.”
An ugly business.
We ask men to take on the harsh and dangerous business of policing criminals, and demand that nothing unpleasant happens.
Oldflyer, the shooter and all victims, two officers and two family members, in Boone, NC, were all evidently white.
This is a gross overreach. Chauvin has already been convicted of second degree murder, a charge which is not consistent with what happened. The DOJ has no business getting involved; as others have pointed out, there is no evidence of racial animus in the incident.
@BoatBuilder:
I sure hope you weren’t reminded of Breaker Morant by Frodi and Mark’s movie review the other day! 😛
You might find this memoir by a Boer Commando who began the war aged about 17 interesting:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017WD3U4K/
Not your average Boer: His father was President of the Orange Free State earlier and was State Secretary of the Transvaal Republic when the war began. Lived a very full and interesting life after the war too.
Compare and contrast with Hunter Biden!
FOAF:
Just saying you understand does not make it so.
As I said, it is about blaming the cop no matter what he or she does.
Now, WHY would people want to do that? I didn’t think I had to re-explain here, because it’s something I’ve written about before, in other posts, and because it’s obvious: they want to undermine the entire system of policing and have a radical agenda, which is to replace it with something the left controls.
I guess I missed the movie review, Zaphod.
I will read that book. Sounds like a good complement to Winston Churchill’s adventures.
Art Deco: yes, I know all that. Whether my acquaintance has encountered and rejected it, or never encountered it, I don’t know. But as I’ve mentioned before I’ve often encountered what I call the “these go to 11” reaction from progressives when confronted with facts of that sort: pause, blank look, resume recitation of party line. Or change subject.
Rule 303
@BoatBuilder:
Highly recommended. Deneys Reitz briefly met Churchill before his escape from Pretoria.
And bumped into him years later when Deputy Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa; Reitz followed Jan Smuts in the Afrikaner faction which decided to make the best of a bad lot after the Boer War and work cooperatively with the British. He died in 1944 so didn’t live to see it all fall apart.
…they want to undermine the entire system of policing and have a radical agenda, which is to replace it with something the left controls.
–neo
This agenda is known as the Prison Abolition Movement. Angela Davis is one of its leaders. It’s now mainstream enough that GQ covers it:
______________________________________________________
I say that abolition is a political vision with a goal of eliminating imprisonment, policing, and surveillance and creating lasting alternatives to punishment and imprisonment. That it’s not just about getting rid of building cages, it’s about actually undoing the society that continues to feed on and maintain the oppression of masses of people through punishment, violence, and control. Because the prison-industrial complex isn’t an isolated system, abolition is a broad strategy. And so we have to be building models today that develop and represent how we want to live in the future. It’s both a practical organizing tool and a long-term goal.
https://www.gq.com/story/what-is-prison-abolition
______________________________________________________
Sounds like a plan! I think it’s great that fashionistas are putting their shoulders and chiseled cheekbones to the wheel.
Mac; my experience as well. It’s as if facts are a pack of werewolves and the libs are brandishing a Crucifix.
It’s more like the Left are a bunch of Werewolves and the Crucifix has ceased to function as advertised. <– A rather more accurate analogy for the times we live in, methinks.
My point still stands, neo. There is no equivalence between the two situations, they are NOT treated the same. Not only are crime rates higher in black neighborhoods but they are victims of crime disproportionately. There must be a wealth of instances where police could be accused of failing to act. Where are the massive demonstrations, riots, looting, wall-to-wall national media coverage in response to these? Whether caused by genuine outrage, or cynical political manipulation as you posit?
If you were right, neo, the city of Baltimore would be engulfed in riots and flames. The murder rate has skyrocketed there since the Freddie Gray incident caused the police to stand down. Maybe they just don’t care. Or maybe it’s not worth anyone’s political while to make an issue of it.
I have added Chauvin and his family to my nightly prayer list. Whether one “likes” him or not, he is a political prisoner of “the politics of personal destruction.” Shame on the Left and its enablers!
“Just as every cop is a criminal, and all the sinners saints…”
–Sympathy for the Devil