39% of American Muslims are keeping their opinions on 10/7 intact by denying reality
Denial is a tried-and-true method of dealing with the pain and confusion of cognitive dissonance. I believe that’s what’s going on here:
When asked which statement “comes closest to your view,” more American Muslims selected “Hamas did not commit murder and rape in Israel on October 7” than “Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel on October 7.”
More than a third (39%) denied the Hamas murders and rapes, while only 31% admitted them. Another 30% said they “don’t know,” in the poll, provided first to The Daily Signal.
You can find much more on the poll here. For example:
Similarly, many American Muslims (43%) said, “Israel does not have a right to exist as a Jewish homeland,” while only 11% of the general public said so. One-third of American Muslims (33%) said “Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish homeland,” compared with two-thirds of overall Americans (66%). …
A majority of Muslims (58%) said Jews have “too much power” over the media, and about the same number (57%) said Jews have “too much power” over federal policy.
My contrast, far fewer among the general public say Jews have “too much power” over the media (22%) and policy (17%), while more Americans say they have “about a normal amount of power” over the media (41%) and policy (45%).
Older Muslims (67% of those older than 65) and college graduate Muslims (64%) proved more likely to say Jews have too much power over the media. …
Meanwhile, 34% of Muslim respondents selected the Israel conflict as their top issue [in the 2024 election], while only 25% chose the economy and 11% selected immigration. …
Almost half (47%) said Harris is “too pro-Israel,” while 29% said she “gets the balance about right,” and 7% called her “too pro-Palestine.”
College graduate Muslims (53%), and Muslims of Asian (62%) and Arab (66%) descent proved more likely to call Harris “too pro-Israel,” while Muslims of other races—black (37%), white (41%), and Hispanic (52%)—proved more likely to say she gets the issue right.
39% also support having sharia law in the US.
I emphasized the 10/7 denial in the title of this post, because that’s such a flagrant denial of reality, but all of these points of view are disturbing. The denial of the events of 10/7 is even more of a stretch than Holocaust denial, because whereas the Nazis tried to hide their crimes from the world, the Gazans proudly documented and broadcast theirs.
It’s not that the existence of “moderate Muslims” is a myth. They exist, and they live in the US. I know some of them. But there are way way too many Muslims in this country who have brought extremist views with them, clung to them, and taught them to their children – both anti-Semitism and other ideas such as the need for sharia law.
“By contrast, far fewer among the general public say Jews have “too much power” over the media (22%) and policy (17%)…”
You would think that those that truly thought this would avoid expressing that sentiment, worried that Jews were responsible for this survey and would use their answer against them.
I’m actually surprised it’s only 39% that are reality deniers.
People tend to believe or disbelieve what they want to believe or disbelieve, often even in the face of overwhelming evidence, but only for as long as there aren’t strong negative consequences for doing so. I think our modern society often doesn’t provide enough negative reinforcement to discourage irrational and nonempirical conclusions. And worse in fact we will often do the opposite of discouraging bad thinking and bad ideas, we will encourage, embolden, and even reward such thinking.
Perhaps more egregious denial, at the link:
The Hamas charter is quite open about its goal: the destruction of the state of Israel.
Perhaps a more accurate description is not denial, but Taqiyya.
Similar to Arafat telling Western audiences that he supported the two-state solution, while telling Arab audiences that the two-state solution was a step towards the destruction of the state of Israel.
Mohamed was only a scribe,PBUH, who wrote down the actual words of Allah dictated to him from above. The Koran is thus a transciption. Which demands that infidels convert or die.
Secretaries taking dictation are not “Prophets”.
Another case of “it didn’t happen, and it’s good that it did”.
No different from 9/11. Muslims didn’t do it, couldn’t possibly have done it, and America had it coming for all their crimes against Muslims.
One case that originally puzzled me was A. K. Dewdney, who was a published scientist, succeeded Douglas Hofstadter and Martin Gardner writing the recreational mathematics column for Scientific American as well as a book debunking bogus scientific claims, and then one day he’s a 9/11 truther. Turned out he was Muslim, so mystery solved.
Interesting that the 10/7 deniers and those desirous of sharia law both number exactly 39%.
Wanting sharia law is entirely antithetical to being a US citizen. How did we let this happen? A rhetorical question.
It may not be entirely taqiyya. Many Muslims we knew in Egypt were entirely uninformed about the history of their religion’s spread and its violent nature.
At some point we may yet figure out that when they say, “Death to America,” they mean it.
I wonder, if asked, how many of that 31% who admitted the murder and rape would have expressed approval.
Perhaps more shocking is this:
I’m not sure which is more surprising: That nearly half of Muslims agreed, or that only nearly half of the general public agreed. I suppose it depends on what they thought the meaning of “target” is.
It’s pretty hard to be accepting of a belief system that dwells in falsehood and denial, and is rooted in violent aggression and conquest.
I strongly recommend the late Lawrence Auster’s speech-become-essay “A Real Islam Policy for a Real America”: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/012935.html
I heard the speech as delivered at the Preserving Western Civilization Conference in Baltimore in early 2009.
Larry’s bottom line was expressed in a 2006 blog entry at his still-extant View From the Right site:
“We must confine Muslims to the Muslim world, where they cannot threaten us. This means stopping all Muslim immigration into the West, and initiating a set of policies leading to the steady departure, whether forcible or voluntary, of Muslims from the West. A cordon sanitaire must then be placed around the Muslim world to prevent it from having any power to endanger non-Muslim countries.”
Those who think it didn’t happen may resent being blamed for it. Then what?
“39% also support having sharia law in the US.”
Pew Research states the as of 2023 there were 2.15 million Muslim adults in the US.
2.15M x .39% = 838,500 Muslim adults in the US “support having sharia law in the US”. As TommyJay correctly states, “sharia law is entirely antithetical to being a US citizen.”
It doesn’t take a seer to see where this will lead. In fact, Western Europe is already providing a preview… of where admission of peoples with antithetical ideologies leads.
Allah demands violence against any non-Muslim who refuses to convert and death for those non-Muslims who refuse to submit. A submission that demands the acceptance of henceforth having no rights whatsoever, not even a right to life.
It’s true that there are moderate Muslims (i.e. ‘Cafeteria Catholics’) but the fundamentalists hold the theological high ground because they are simply acting as Allah has commanded them to do, unambiguously written down over a hundred times in the ‘sacred’ Qur’an. And since Muhammad, the “last Prophet” and the “Perfect Man” repeatedly and consistently declared the Qur’an to be a direct transcription of Allah’s very words, not even one comma can be changed within it. For to do so would be to implicitly declare that Muhammad was either a liar or deluded. In either case, Islam’s theological foundations would collapse and that is why moderate Muslims will never steer Islam away from the abyss.
In 2012 a poll of Muslims was conducted by The Polling Company for the Center for Security Policy (CSP)…
“Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country.
https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/
Experience in the UK has shown that the second generation is more radicalized than the first immigrant generation and an even higher percentage of the third… but living in the land of the ‘Great Satan’… how could it be otherwise?
Re: Moderate Muslims
I question their numbers and I make no mistake in assuming such Muslims will moderate their co-religionists when it comes to forcing the rest of us to convert or be killed.
Moderate Muslims are moderate only in the sense that they won’t pull the triggers. And maybe they will feel bad if we are killed.
I recall an attempt by a moderate Muslim after 9-11 to stage a pro-America demo in some NYC square. Almost no Muslims showed up.
@ noctus > “You would think that those that truly thought this would avoid expressing that sentiment, worried that Jews were responsible for this survey and would use their answer against them.”
Oddly, a lot of people never think about who is asking them these questions or why, and what happens to their answers. The promise of anonymity is worth about as much as a promise by Facebook to keep your private information private.
Conservatives learned the hard way not to give honest answers to every person with a phone or a clipboard. That’s why honest pollsters have to weight replies to account for the, to coin a phrase, silent cohort.
And some respondents may not really believe it, anymore than most politicians and pundits believe that Trump (Bush, Reagan,…) were Hitler.
As many people on the right consistently point out: If Trump was Hitler, you’d be dead or in jail. You aren’t, so he isn’t.
Wendy Laubach has a good description of the Democrats who listen to those politicians and pundits. “Everyone knows” what Trump is, because they never, ever hear anything to the contrary from their “trusted sources” and if they do, don’t believe it.
https://www.thenewneo.com/2024/10/10/boris-johnson-on-trumps-foreign-policy/#comment-2766071
As a commenter at Sarah Hoyt’s blog put it recently, “Tip: If you dare to complain about it being a dictatorship, it isn’t.”
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2024/10/09/from-afar/#comment-993553
It’s odd that the Democrats never notice who doesn’t get to complain about dictatorial tyranny, especially censorship, without severe consequences.
Because the censorship works.
@ Richard > “Those who think it didn’t happen may resent being blamed for it. Then what?”
Then they need to get informed about reality, because they are not “being blamed” for participating in 10/7, but for celebrating those who did.
I meant to add this to my comment.
Leil Leibovitz gets it.
https://nypost.com/2024/10/07/opinion/anti-israel-protesters-show-true-colors-by-celebrating-october-7-attacks/
These people are gangrene. Question: what could have been done to avoid importing them?
Aesop
In such public issues, “blame” gets spread pretty far, beyond the initial meaning. Denying it, even by claiming ignorance which is a ploy anyway, is almost as good as doing it. Or as bad. You’re right, they’re celebrating it but privately. Not that it’s invisible.
Just a reminder of what that 39% is advocating:
https://notthebee.com/article/iranian-couple-charged-threatening-public-health-keeping-cat
Kate on October 10, 2024 at 4:25 pm said:
“Many Muslims we knew in Egypt were entirely uninformed about the history of their religion’s spread and its violent nature.”
John+Guilfoyle on October 10, 2024 at 7:47 pm said:
“It’s pretty hard to be accepting of a belief system that dwells in falsehood and denial, and is rooted in violent aggression and conquest.”
Not to deny or down play anything being said here about Islam (esp. GB), but the history of Judaism and of Christianity has its violent elements, and many seem ignorant of them (or ignore them) as well. Now, they may have involved only 3 to 10% of their respective histories, vs. 85 to 95% for Islam [see for example Bill Warner: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0Uu4XnRS1hiz3JCpNFIuUg and maybe specifically this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZxScaEq2Ec [which also happens to have French subtitles; I couldn’t quickly find the YT for which I was looking totally in English. Enjoy this version, Huxley!!]
All three of them seem to have started with some political goals as well as religious ones. I was going to provide a few examples [which I may have mentioned previously] but I decided not to take this thread too far off of Islam.
Just how we “deMuslimize” or “de-Islamacize” ourselves or Europe is still a valid quandary.
Expanding knowledge of the ideas discussed herein is certainly part of it, but then we have to find the courage to separate the political aspects of the Islamic ideology from its [pretend? pretense of?] religious elements to avoid issues with the First Amendment. I don’t recall who was the first, but several have properly asserted that “the Constitution is not a suicide pact”. Political views and expressions that do not support the Constitution would seem to give us a way to remove such people.
Another avenue is to further promote the results of recent scholarship [from the last 30+ year’s?] showing that Islam and the Quran evolved out of Christian liturgical materials [as a fully man made book], that initially “Mecca” was probably Petrus, the Dome of the Rock was initially a Christian “temple”, etc. This will be resisted by most Muslims [and not a small number of Christians and Jews, I suspect] but is one path to undo the “voice and mind of Allah”, the historical existence of, or a different history about, Muhammad, etc.
And yet, as Neo has emphasized, a mind is a difficult thing to change.