It seems to be in the air: more mass shootings over the weekend
If it sometimes seems as though these things are contagious, it’s because they probably are. Not literally contagious, of course. But susceptible minds read about a mass shooting or see a video, and a few of them think, “What a good idea!” – and carry out that idea in their own idiosyncratic way.
Assassination attempts are similar. The two failed Trump attempts occurred close together, and back in 1975 two women in California decided, within three weeks of one another, that it would be a nifty idea to assassinate the relatively innocuous and seemingly non-divisive President Ford (one of these women, Sara Jane Moore, died the other day at the age of 95 and I might write a post about her in the not-too-distant future).
This horrific Southport, North Carolina, shooting seems to have been perpetrated by 40-year-old Nigel Edge Max, a bona fide crazy person – a brain-injured schizophrenic who had a previous history as a Marine sniper in Iraq. The shooter decided that it would be a nifty idea to use his unfortunately not-rusty-enough skills to fire from a boat on patrons enjoying themselves at a waterfront restaurant.
It might strike you – as it struck me – that the suspect’s name seemed like something out of a fantasy, and in fact he had changed it in from the original. He had one of those “troubled” histories which should surprise no one:
The suspect, formerly known as Sean DeBevoise before he changed his name in 2023, reportedly has a complicated and troubled past, and law enforcement sources indicated that he engaged with numerous Q-Anon conspiracy theories. He also once escorted former “American Idol” contestant Kelly Pickler to the CMT Music Awards, but later sued her, claiming she had tried to kill him by poisoning his drink.
He also filed several other lawsuits accusing organizations of plotting to murder him, and he wrote a book called “Headshot: Betrayal of a Nation,” where he described his injuries and theorized that it constituted an additional plot to murder him.
Extremely paranoid. He doesn’t seem to be on the left, and I guess if he was indeed a Q-Anon follower we can safely say he was in some sort of fringe group category that could roughly be described as being on the far far right (perhaps the anarchist right? – anarchy can be on right or left). But I doubt the murders in North Carolina had much if anything to do with politics.
RIP to the three people who were murdered. The suspect was caught because the police had a good description of his boat. From the authorities:
“Chief Morris already said that he was a resident of Oak Island, and was well-known to law enforcement, but he wasn’t quite as well known in the criminal court system,” District Attorney Davis said Sunday. “There were some minor contacts over the years but nothing significant in his past, which would give us any indication that he was capable of such horrors.”
Well, the combination of being an ex-sniper and a brain-injured paranoid schizophrenic might be an indication.
Then there was a mass shooting at a Mormon church in Michigan, plus a fire, that killed four people – with a fifth being the perp, who was shot by police. Strangely, this man was also an ex-Marine of about the same age, who had served in Iraq, but unlike the NC perp he had not been in combat nor had he been wounded at all, much less in the head:
The lone attacker, authorities said, plowed his pickup into the church at 10:25 a.m. Sept. 28, and then began shooting at people, before he, too, was shot and killed by police, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints building went up in flames.
By late evening, news outlets were reporting the possibility that more bodies could be found, the latest in a string of violent incidents in Michigan in churches, hospitals, a Walmart, and even a suburban park where children were playing.
I’m not aware of those other violent incidents in Michigan, but they point to the “contagion” effect as well. I doubt the Michigan perp was aware of the NC boat perp, although who knows? The NC murders had occurred Saturday night and the Michigan ones occurred Sunday.
For Sanford, the motive seems to have been hatred of Mormons rather than anything political. He seems to have also had a history of drug use:
Burton City Council candidate Kris Johns said he spoke to Sanford about a week ago.
According to Johns, Sanford was at home and went on a tirade against the church and described Mormons — an informal name for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — as “the antichrist.”
Johns described Sanford as “extremely friendly,” and said their conversation didn’t delve into national party politics or current events — “there was no mention of anything right or left, blue or red” — but Johns did say he spotted a Trump 2024 sign on the suspect’s fence.
Johns also said they talked about their children. Johns said his daughter has special needs; he said Sanford told him his child has a health condition. Sanford asked Johns what he thought about guns.
The city councilmember-hopeful responded that he supports the Second Amendment. Then, Sanford talked about his life story, and the conversation lasted no more than 20 minutes.
Johns said Sanford spoke quickly as he shared about his time in Iraq and his struggles with drug addiction when he returned home. Sanford moved to Utah at one point to plow snow and had a relationship with a woman there whose family was Mormon.
Johns said Sanford asked him if he believed in God. He responded, “yes.” Johns said he’s Christian and a member of Solid Rock Community Church in Burton. And the, from there, Johns said, the conversation took a “a very sharp turn.”
That sharp turn was, apparently, hatred of Mormons. Another hint – perhaps – involves the woman in Utah; perhaps her family disapproved of him? If so, they turn out to have been perceptive.
RIP to the dead in Michigan.
I’m LDS. Not anywhere close to Michigan, but this was a gut-punch. Why? We LDS are tight knit. This could have been my church meetinghouse. We have a bunch of kids there, because we tend to have big families. This anti-LDS bigotry is real; I’ve personally experienced various forms of it over the years.
Fortunately, most people realize that LDS folks turn out to be decent neighbors and friends.
Michael Towns:
I’ve known quite a few Mormons and every one of them has been extremely nice.
But there have been quite a few attacks on religious gatherings of many different kinds in recent years.
This is the Left’s reaction to the Charlie Kirk shooting.
I wouldn’t mess with those LDSers
Michael Towns, I have known and worked with Mormons over the years and couldn’t complain about them if I tried. The distrust of Mormons stems, I believe, from certain insular practices of the church. A very good friend of mine converted to marry a Mormon woman and I was invited to their wedding. I didn’t see the wedding, I got to stand outside the church with his brother and sister-in-law. As we weren’t Mormons we weren’t allowed to witness the wedding. Secret “practices” like that scream Cult! to a lot of people. He did end up isolating from his family and old friends. This behavior doesn’t yell cult to me as I’ve seen this in many couples religious or non religious.
Thought I would have liked to see Chris’s wedding.
It seems to me that both these killers had serious mental disorders. I think the “contagion” part is the atmosphere of violence in the nation. Neither of these awful events seems to be politically motivated.
I was pleased to hear that authorities in Michigan say everyone is accounted for from the fire scene, so no more bodies are to be found in the ruins.
I’m watching Jessica Tarlov, Fox News’s resident leftist, insist that the Michigan killer’s being a Trump supporter is an important fact. It would be, if this had been a political act, but even Tarlov probably cannot come up with evidence that Trump supporters in general hate Mormons. In fact, LDS voters probably lean Republican on average.
In conjunction with the LDS president’s death on Saturday, this has been a rough few days for LDS members. RIP to those lost, and prayers for healing for the survivors.
@ JFM > “As we weren’t Mormons we weren’t allowed to witness the wedding.”
Not all Mormons get to be witnesses either, if they aren’t current temple recommend holders, but it also holds true for close friends and even family who aren’t part of the immediate kin.
We like to think of ceremonies like this as “sacred, not secret” and it really isn’t any secret what the wedding rite entails; there are currently millions of people who have had temple sealings performed.
https://www.churchofjesuschristweddingplanning.com/blog/lds-temple-wedding-questions-answers
Three of our boys married into other long-time LDS families, but the father of one of the brides had to remain outside as he wasn’t currently a recommend holder, and that hasn’t affected anyone’s relationship.
Another one married a lovely young lady who joined the church first, as did I before wedding AesopSpouse. Her family and my sister waited with each other inside the visitor’s room appointed for guests, and then joined us for the pictures and the first reception for local friends — none of whom attended the sealing ceremony because the room was already filled with family.
They had their second reception in the bride’s hometown with her extended family and friends, and the rest of our family, after a lovely ring ceremony.
Two receptions are very typical for LDS weddings, since the couple often meets at college and the hometowns are widely separated.
This is probably more than most people wanted to know, but it’s kind of nice to think about happy times right now.
AesopFan, thank you very much for the explanation. Better more than less.
The initial reports of the Michigan shooting made it seem pretty straightforward.
There was a report that “100” FBI agents were coming to work the case. Another report had “elite investigators”. Seems like over-resourcing a straightforward case, if the reports are true. Is there other info leading someplace else? One report had a hate-Trump/Vance poster on or near his garage. Concerning social media directed at targets other than LDS?
Nigel Max Edge, not Nigel Edge Max, to be precise.
As a matter of policy, excluding close family from a wedding is simply, wrong. Even a young child will recoil at it. Theology that rationalizes to justify it is an example of what Jesus so often in his ministry rebuked.
I still remember in Navy boot camp (1969) being told that attending church services was mandatory. So I and a few others checked and learned that there was no rule on what service we must attend… so we visited all of them. During the Morman mandatory familiarization lecture, it was explained to us that there were racially determined levels in heaven with whites at the highest level. We left in disgust. If memory serves, that ‘teaching’ was later revised. A policy that excludes close family at weddings is a violation of common decency. Acting like a cult perpetuates the perception of being one..
AesopFan, thank you for the explanation. In my religion/culture not inviting someone to witness the wedding ceremony is a huge insult.
Can we just put any objections we have to past or present LDS theology, history, or practices on hold for just like, a week? I’m not saying we have to wait until the victims have all had their funerals or anything crazy like that, I’m just saying give it maybe a week?
I don’t recall comments objecting to religious tenets of recent Catholic, Jewish or Amish mass shooting victims, and maybe that’s my poor memory, but I do think a little compassionate silence on this is in order at the moment.
As is often the case, Not the Bee has a good summary of what we know, what we don’t, and how both sides run rampant with propaganda, through ignorance or malice.
https://notthebee.com/article/since-everyone-is-out-to-prove-an-agenda-heres-what-we-know-about-the-man-who-burned-down-a-church-yesterday
@ Niketas – Thank you.
WARNING: LONG REPLY to a comment above follows.
I apologize for another extensive discourse on a specialized subject, but I feel like the readers here are interested in finding out what we actually believe, and not what is bruited about on the internet. Misconceptions can lead to serious results, as we have just seen, and I would rather clarify those questions when they arise.
@ Geoffrey < " it was explained to us that there were racially determined levels in heaven with whites at the highest level."
What you remember that chaplain telling you was not, and has never been, an accepted doctrine of the LDS Church, and I hope he was disciplined for it at some point.
The "teaching" did not have to be "revised" because it was never official; however, Church historians have written extensively about what some members have at times erroneously believed by referring to historical contexts, and Church leaders have encouraged (too mild a word) members not to preach personal viewpoints from the pulpit.
There are no racially determined levels of anything in Heaven.
Anyone who didn't have the benefit of certain blessings on earth will not in the hereafter be denied what they are worthy of here but were unable to receive in mortality.
I suspect the chaplain was quite unnecessarily mangling the actual doctrines in the references below.
Essential background: The only doctrines binding on Church members as official beliefs are contained in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants (collectively "the Scriptures"). Official Declarations and Proclamations issued by the First Presidency are generally treated by members as doctrinal in effect, but have to be canonized in the D&C to be officially official.
The first reference to "levels in heaven" is too long a topic for this forum, but you can find out more here.
https://eom.byu.edu/index.php?title=Degrees_of_Glory
The second is the more pertinent topic.
https://eom.byu.edu/index.php?title=Race,_Racism
The vast majority Church members, including myself and literally (not figuratively for emphasis) everyone I knew, received this revelation with great thanksgiving, and proceeded with the usual ordinations of their ward’s Black members with all possible speed. We currently have a large number of stakes in Africa (some of which predate the Revelation), and have had Black General Authorities from Brazil, Zimbabwe, and Kenya.
This is a bio of a current African-American leader.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_M._Johnson
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify that matter. I am sorry you had a bad experience, but (as they say) even churches are full of imperfect people. As a convert myself, I have had to slough off some misguided remarks by some very fine people in my wards.
And by some also wonderful people in my former church.
I think I’ve finally brought my family around, but it’s been touch-and-go with some of them. 😉
That NottheBee link was excellent on how internet posts began immediately trying to classify the Michigan killer as “one of those,” either MAGA or left. It’s always best to wait until actual evidence of motivation appears, however demented or evil that motivation turns out to be.
AesopFan-what I said about the wedding is the ONLY bad experience I’ve had with the Mormon church. I wish I could saw the same about my Church.
The people who commit these spree shootings are insane and/or possessed by demons. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I am really, really tired of the news people trying to come up with a motive. Just accept that there is no motive and move on.
Just wanted to say: I appreciate the respectful discourse about my faith. It’s been a rough week, and many have not been kind. You guys here have been perfectly kind. Thank you.
No haters here Michael Towns.