Is Israel “winning the war but losing the world”?
From commenter “Mike Plaiss”:
Another thing that has been on my mind lately, and this one has really been bugging me.
Israel Is Winning the War but Losing the World
https://archive.md/mmikK“The war for hearts and minds is lost,” Howard Wolfson, a veteran Democratic strategist, said recently on a podcast. “The reality here is that public opinion is shifting very quickly and very dramatically away from Israel.”
And later in the article:
More Americans now say they sympathize with Palestinians than with Israel in the conflict (37% to 36%), for the first time since the question began to be asked in 2001. And half of Republican or Republican-leaning voters under age 50 now say they have negative views of Israel.
Across Europe, Israel now registers record-low approval ratings. Nearly half of British adults say Israel is treating the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews in the Holocaust, and antisemitic attitudes in the U.K. have doubled in the past five years. The ongoing conflict is leading to a surge in antisemitism across the globe …
Someone I respect immensely, Daniel Pipes, who has been highly enthusiastic about the prospect of completely destroying Hamas, thinks it’s time to change course.
https://www.danielpipes.org/22646/how-israel-became-a-leper-state-and-how-it-can
My opinion? Israel became “a pariah state” a long time ago. I’ve written on the topic before and won’t go into depth here, but it started in the 1960s when the USSR turned its back on Israel and began an intense campaign to make the world hate Israel – which the world was only too happy to do (see this). The heinous 1972 Munich Olympics attack only served, ultimately, to enhance Arafat’s status and demand for a Palestinian state. By the year 2001 the international hatred of Israel had reached epic proportions with the notorious Durban conference.
All of this was accomplished though propaganda/lies from not just the Palestinians but the Russians and China, and the amplification and spread of those lies by the Western MSM, the internet and especially social media such as TikTok, the international courts, NGOs, and of course academia.
The existence of anti-Semitism – otherwise known as Jew-hatred – is a huge element in the propensity to believe the Jewish state of Israel to be uniquely evil. I submit that there was no way whatsoever that Israel could have defended itself post-10/7 that would have changed that. For example, the huge and widespread demonstrations against Israel began on 10/8 before Israel had done a thing. And the “Gazans are starving and its Israel’s fault” message started almost immediately, too.
Europe has never been fond of its Jews and for many centuries persecuted them, and many European countries were only too happy to cooperate with Hitler’s plans to make them Judenfrei. As many Western European countries turned more to the left – and had to placate their swelling numbers of pro-Palestinian Jew-hating Islamic immigrants (who far outnumber those countries’ Jews) – the antipathy to Israel grew and took on a practical political aspect as well.
In the US, the growing leftism among the young and the anti-Israel nature of academia tells much of the tale. As for anti-Israel sentiment on the Tucker/Owens/Fuentes fringe of the right, they are using their internet and media power to spread an anti-Israel message that has been latent on the right for decades (perhaps forever) and which mainly lands with the young. One of the first things I noticed when I went online around 1996 was the vast amount of anti-Jew and anti-Israel propaganda being pushed by a plethora of sites. Some of the sites have changed but the message is the same, or worse.
So when Pipes writes, “If Israel’s post-Oct. 7 campaign in Gaza began with the goal of eradicating Hamas, it has become a mission to salvage its own reputation,” I respond, “what reputation?”, as well as “what choice did Israel have?” Pipes’ recommendation in that article that Israel should never have tried to free the hostages but should have just gone full speed ahead with the war is profoundly unrealistic, and that’s putting it kindly. It ignores the fact that not trying to free the hostages would have shattered Israeli society and any unity the government needed to fight the war, it ignores the fact that until late January of 2025 it was President Biden throwing huge roadblocks in Israel’s way and that the cooperation of the US was sorely needed, and it ignores the fact that lies spread with the cooperation of most of the world are tremendously difficult (probably impossible) to counter.
I find hating Jews to be completely incomprehensible. But Palestinians work 24/7 on being more and more hateful , yet they get away with it. How?
Some American Jews are using their influence against Israel as well. That may weigh more with the public than non-Jews. I presume their motive isn’t anti-Semitism, but I’m not sure it’s simple to ascribe a single motive to them. I wouldn’t know how to quantify the extra damage they are doing to Israel, if any.
It was lost from the backup this month, but the Hollywood petition to boycott Israel for “apartheid” and “genocide” had Jewish signatories, and at least one Jewish actress did so at the Emmys this week as well:
I’m quoting her words not because I agree with them or defend them. I quoting them because she’s speaking for herself about her motives. She may well be lying, or even an anti-Semite, but they are her own words and not somebody’s hostile paraphrase, and if you try to understand why people think something that doesn’t make sense to you, you have to start with what they say for themselves.
Golda Meir’s statement seems germane:
“If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”
We’re not the ones who have been fighting with our backs to the wall for almost 80 years. I don’t know why they would listen to our qualms.
Not as immediately germane, I suppose, but relevant, in my judgment:
“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.”
— Golda Meir
This is a different (and expanded) version of that quotation:
“When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
— Golda Meir
This is an excellent post, neo, and would be a great, quick primer for any young people unfamiliar with the history on this subject. I would add that there was plenty of anti-Israel hatred prior to the ’60s, going back to its founding. And, there was certainly even a lot of international opposition to its formation prior to 1948.
This, unfortunately, is all too true
Here are two additional things at play.
There are some Americans who are fairly strict pacifists and abhor killing no matter the reason. These Americans hate the murder, violence and torture done by Hamas on October 7th and they hate the deaths of non-combatants caught up in the subsequent war. A subset of these are folks who simply have tremendous empathy for suffering. My guess is many of the young women appearing at protests and vigils fit this category. They see awful scenes from Gaza and those Tik Tok video encompasses 90% of their information of the circumstances.
Also, I think a growing number of Americans are becoming isolationist; especially with America’s soldiers and dollars. There are people who hate what Russia is doing in Ukraine and hate what Hamas did on October 7th, but want American human and capital resources to be used within our borders. This feeling has been strong in impoverished communities for decades. “Why are we sending money to Israel (Ukraine, Mexico, South America, Africa, China…) when my son doesn’t have a job…” This attitude is especially prevalent in minority communities where many already view themselves as outsiders who don’t have a “seat at the table.”
Rufus.
Beg to differ. Never met a committed pacifist who cared in the slightest–except as a public relations matter–about the innocent victims of our enemies. At the least, if forced against a wall, it’s “both sides” or “they were forced into it.”
Mundane example. Found a picture of three women students, in KABUL for heaven’s sake, in knee-length skirts, blouses, heels, flowing hair, big smiles. That was 1972. Picture next to it, a small group of women wrapped from head to toe, this year.
Showed it to a liberal friend; “They’re probably happier now, don’t have to get all rigged up and compete with other women.”
There is nothing an enemy of the west or the US can do which is so horrible a liberal will turn a hair.
Israel, and the Jewish/Israeli people, have been abandoned by the world before: I cannot think that it (and they) would not rather “go it alone” than meekly accept the wishes of those who intend their total destruction/disappearance from the face of the earth. The Jews did that before and, as they are wont to declare, “Never again.”
https://freebeacon.com/…/elliott-abrams-on-why-there…/
It seems to me, that Israel has tried for nigh onto 80 years to reach an accommodation with the people of Palestine (and their leaders). To no avail.
Even the major Arab countries have obtained some kind or another of rational basis for a peaceful existence with their neighbor, …maybe due to some realization that continuing and overt animosity is useless and counterproductive to a thriving society.
But not the inhabitants of the area called Palestine.
Israel should not be expected to continue in perpetuity with an openly terrorist state on its border, whose stated and repeated intention, supported and demonstrated by continuing terrorist activities, is the utter destruction and disappearance of the Israeli state.
As for the assertions that Israel is committing genocide against the Gazans….
The Holocaust was genocide. Stalin’s intentional starvation and murder of the people of Ukraine was genocide. Certain African tribal activity may be an effort at the genocide of adversarial tribes.
I believe that self-defensive action to assure survival when the very real threat is the utter extinction of one’s nation, is not genocide.
What Neo said. All of it.
@ Rufus – I think our new generations of pacifists are radically different from those of WWI and WWII, most of whom, although they refused to take arms themselves, worked tirelessly in medical and support positions. And some served, and died, on the front lines.
But there have always been “pacifists” whose actual position is not “everybody needs to stop fighting” but rather “YOU don’t get to fight BACK.”
As the post basically concedes, Israel’s global situation is becoming steadily worse, particularly in the most powerful, and historically the most friendly, country in the world. It doesn’t do any good to throw up your hands and proclaim the problem insoluble. What is neo’s strategy–or more relevantly, Netanyahu’s–for improving the situation?
If your plan–and this does seem to be Netanyahu’s–is to carry out search and destroy missions with amateur soldiers until the enemy insurgents are eliminated, then that reflects a really staggering historical ignorance.
Israel is more likely to earn the respect of the world (and of its enemies) by acting forcefully and with precision, than by shrinking back in hopes of approval (which as neo notes, it will never get in any case).
Richard,
I’ve met a lot of intelligent, compassionate people who “just don’t want people to die.” They will admit they don’t know about the politics, but they simply hate war*. There are also some who know a lot about the politics and current events but also state, “they want the killing to stop.” President Trump has said things to that affect about Ukraine.
There have been many pacifist religious sects who are very sincere.
*”You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.” The cruelty of war paralyses some in thought. The desire to stop slaughter is paramount and they struggle to think beyond that. Look how long it took Abraham Lincoln to accept the brutality necessary to end the Civil War.
Much of the anti-Semitism in the world stems from a toxic stew of jealousy, ‘need’ for a scapegoat and a craven attempt to appease the Islamic threat.
Israel, as a homeland for the Jews, presents a mortal threat to the delusional open borders crowd.
To put the animosity of fundamentalist Islamists toward the Jews in perspective some relevant dialog from the first Terminator movie comes to mind: “Listen! That Terminator is out there! It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop… ever… until you are dead!”
That ‘theological’ imperative is directly, repeatedly and unequivocally ordained within the Qur’an.
So strictly as a matter of mild curiosity, what is your strategy for improving the situation y81?
And to what historical evidence are you referring?
I completely disagree with your concerns. When war comes, make the retaliation wide and fast. Israel should have opened a road to the West Bank and told the Gazans to get out. Anyone left would be shot on sight. Completely eliminate Gaza as a Stronghold in 2 months. Modern Western leaders are weak and vaccillating. The consequence is poor public support. NO ONE likes a long war!! If you can’t pull the sword and make it extremely bloody, then don’t bother.
Ironically I feel that Israel’s only real chance to “win back the world” is actually to carry through to the bitter end in Gaza without too much damage, and to gather as much evidence as possible to rub it in the world. To prove the blood libels, the lies, the depths of inhumanity by Hamas and its allies (we ignore their allies/coalition members within the Balestinian territories itself but they are important, with Balestinian Islamic Jihad being even more radical and brutal than Hamas and the PFLB/P being a darling among leftists abroad). To reveal the depths of UN and NGO complicity and the fate of the remaining prisoners – both Israelis and foreigners kidnapped on Oct 7 and those held before. And then to shout it all to the world and refuse to let it go. To show “the world” how wrong it was in terms so damning and certain it will make most flinch.
Ironically I think this is also why I think Hamas and its allies should have – from their POV- eaten shit and conceded (even if not in that many words) a long time ago, handing back the hostages and remains of hostages and agreeing to cease the fighting, doing whatever was necessary to do it after it was clear their patrons could not provide the mortal blow to Israel in concert that Oct 7 was apparently meant to kick off. Because while humiliating and costly at least that could be spun as a victory and recovered from, and also it would limit the ability of the Israelis to dismantle the regime and orgs in Gaza and to gather evidence, allowing the blood libels and narratives to seep in over time and gain the veneer of truth.
Now that door is shut, God willing.
Jimmy (5:11 pm) said: “Israel is more likely to earn the respect of the world (and of its enemies) by acting forcefully and with precision, than by shrinking back in hopes of approval (which as neo notes, it will never get in any case).”
Compare: Milquetoast Republicans (not all Republicans) shrinking back and trying to win the hearts of the news and entertainment and academic industrial complexes.
Is history rhyming?
As an addendum, I’d note that I feel we and Israel and some others need to turn this into a litmus test and our “But you are hanging Negros” clapback, referrign to the line the Soviets and other communist regimes used to deflect attention and criticism away. Play havoc, demand to be heard, show the evidence. And if they do not want to be shown, make things miserable. Par NGO funding and places like the UN to a bare minimum (albeit with some strong military presence to prevent them from being used as rallying points against it). Make a lot conditional upon acknowledgement of October 7th and the deep corruption in places like Gaza and the UN. Cut aid. Cut intel. Maybe even suspend the “Duty to Report” regarding possible impending terrorist attacks up to a certain point if a given country does not act. Of course, they will not like us for it. But they by and large already do not like us, at least this will be a way of forcing them to respect our power and leverage. Of course, I imagine there would have to be carve outs or some level of secret deals for the Gulf Arabs and so on because they cannot be seen too openly as endorsing or cooperating with Israel, but they can still get forced to dial things the right way. A reckoning needs to happen, and diplomatic and economic pressure be used in concert with the military.
Rufus
The closest thing to the folks you describe I’ve ever met or seen speaking/writing is…”you stop fighting and let yourself be slaughtered.” The enemy is a non-animate given which may not even be condemned.
Or, okay, they don’t like war. Give yourself a candy bar, buddy, for your moral insights. Now that we have one….we have to let ourselves be slaughtered. Funny how you didn’t stop it from happening in the first place.
In addition to which, your efforts to reduce the big meanie quotient in a free society’s efforts to prepare to defend itself convinces the bad guy it might be worth a shot.
The only actual pacifist position is to not resist, no matter what. And since the bad guys aren’t listening, they’re likely to make you face that choice.
Sincere pacifism is a call to suicide. But at least you’ll be the good guys.
To be clear, my concerns are practical in nature. I have stated here before that Israel is more justified in demanding the unconditional surrender of Hamas than we were of either Japan or Germany. But when we issued those demands we were by far the most powerful country in the world. Israel is a small county growing ever more isolated. For those who didn’t read the whole thing, this from Meloni!
Proportionally? Since when is that a “principle”?Even Meloni has gone wobbly. Arms embargo’s and even trade embargo’s may follow.
My puzzlement about the left’s gut-level hostility to Israel goes back to a day in 1967, a few weeks before the Six Day War. I hung out with a circle of hippies/leftists which had a sort of unofficial leader in the form of an older grad student. I was 18, as were most of the others. This older guy berated a Jewish girl in the group with “YOUR PEOPLE are trying to start a war.” I knew little about the conflict but couldn’t understand why he was so certain that one side was wrong, and they were Jews. It seemed to me that it was an integral part of his leftism. I still don’t really understand why that position should be sort of an automatic default for leftists. I suppose it has to do with Israel being a modern democratic state, and seen as a bastion of the evil West planted in the virtuous third world–an abomination.
I never absorbed it, I’m happy to say.
Palestine creates fake starving citizens video with professional filmmakers.
Zero content in your commen nik except “some Jews hate Israel”. I guess you find that satisfying.
Mac, I suspect at the time the guy you described was either a communist or communist-adjacent. As neo suggests by 1967 the USSR had gone all in on the Arab side and you know how their propaganda works.
I think the Israelis have long ago concluded that they’re never going to be liked, so there’s little use for letting it get in the way of surviving and eventually prospering.
I sometimes despair that (so-called) Western Civilization is so naively prone to propaganda, and not just Palestinian propaganda, which is raised to nearly an art form in its dedication, but any propaganda.
Given their history over the past 100 years or so, I wonder if the Israelis have a similar view. I look forward to the next round of expansion to the Abraham accords.
@FOAF:Zero content in your commen nik except “some Jews hate Israel”. I guess you find that satisfying.
I don’t appreciate you lying about me; kindly don’t do it again.
I didn’t create American Jews who oppose Israel, and I didn’t invite them to spread their views in venues like the Emmys which reach many thousands of people. They are at least as significant in drawing people after them in making things difficult for Israel as someone like Candace Owen, probably a lot more so more so, and it is no more wrong for me to note their existence as a problem for Israel than it is for someone to note Candace Owen’s existence as a problem for Israel.
But it is wrong for you to impute an invidious motive to me for mentioning them: merely mentioning them, mind you, explicitly not approving or defending them.
Except for the fact you are obsessed with the topic. I will point that out whether you like it or not.
@FOAF:Except for the fact you are obsessed with the topic. I will point that out whether you like it or not.
Another lie, and I won’t be engaging you further. Stalk away. My other stalkers have been quiet lately.
When it comes to world opinion, Israel is damned if they do, damned if they don’t and damned for anything in-between.
That doesn’t mean they can’t seek to optimize their how damned they are. But that will always be a damned tricky call.
Personally, I’m glad that since 10/7 they’ve gone as hard as they have. But I would never Monday morning quarterback their decisions, as the WSJ and Pipes have done.
There are still two million Palestinians in Gaza City. Israel can’t level Gaza City as we leveled Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It’s a difficult problem.
I wrote something like this some time ago and wish I saved it, so here it goes again. I’ve spent a fair bit of time reading and occasionally commenting on so-called alt-right or dissident right websites, chiefly the late Z Man’s. There are Jew-haters who post on Steve Sailer’s site and most recently there are some obsessive ones on some Substacks I frequent.
These are their chief complaints:
1) The supposed inordinate influence of AIPAC.
2) Jews are seen to be big supporters of large-scale immigration, both legal and illegal, while at the same time wanting strong borders for Israel. Supposedly they favor multiculturalism because they would feel safer if the feared Christian majority is diluted.
3) Jews are highly overrepresented in the ranks of media, Hollywood, finance, academia, and have played a big role in pushing left wing and anti-white ideologies.
4) Some of the leading Jewish figures in foreign policy are said to have a historical animus towards Russia, and have ancestry in the Pale of Settlement. And then there’s the whole weird Khazarian thing.
5) They resent Jews for playing the victim when on the whole they are quite successful in America. While only a minority are outright Holocaust deniers they resent the emphasis on it in modern culture at the expense of other genocides.
6) They don’t consider Jews to be white.
7) The USS Liberty
There’s more I can’t think of at the moment.
Unfortunately Mitchell Strand’s comment is 100% true.
‘ Golda Meir’s statement seems germane:
“If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.” ‘
There is nothing the Israelis can do to ‘win the hearts and minds’ of the Jew haters.
It’s best that the Israelis concentrate on remaining alive.
Israel has always been required to accept that they’re not allowed to defeat their enemies. It’s always been a pariah state in that sense. I think the reaction against Israel now is from recognition that they’re fighting this war to win and they’re not going back to the previous state of affairs.
FOAF: “Mac, I suspect at the time the guy you described was either a communist or communist-adjacent.”
Nobody in those circles at that time was explicitly communist. CPUSA was Not Cool. But almost all were implicitly. This guy certainly was.
Niketas:
Jews are just people, and there’s an old saying: “Two Jews, three opinions.” In other words, they don’t march in lockstep.
Plenty of Jews are merely ethnic Jews. Most live in large blue cities which are overwhelmingly liberal. Most Jews are typical denizens of those cities, with the usual deep blue sentiments. Many have no allegiance to Israel and know next to nothing of its history or of Judaism. It’s not surprising that many follow the current left line and speak out against Israel.
It’s no more remarkable than US citizens of Polish heritage, for example, criticizing present-day Poland. Actually, it’s less remarkable, because so much of the world gives praise and attention to Jews who turn against the state of Israel.
“We love death!”
And:
“We will attack the Zionist Entity again and again and again and again until we rid the world of the Zionist cancer. No, we will never give up.”
Not sure what’s so difficult to understand here…
…except that the world, in its peculiar wisdom (and morality)—no longer so “peculiar”, actually—has decided to agree with ‘em.
(Or—perhaps more accurately—no longer can be bothered to disagree…)
Why might that be?
Because it’s—probably—“easier” for all those stalwart moralists, at this stage of the game. “Easier”, that is, in a kind of “no muss, no fuss” kind of way.
IOW, Israel is so wearisome. Let it, the f***, be destroyed, already. We have our own problems (and agendas; and fears; and needs).
(Oh, and there’s an alligator in there somewhere. More than one, in fact.
Many more…)
A bit off topic, but more like this please.
Japan won’t recognize a Palestinian state given US ties, Asahi reports
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-867695
Golda Meir or Menachem Begin quotes – attribution doesn’t matter.
“The Arabs can lose many wars, Israel can lose only one.”
“don’t look so sad, Senator, we have a secret weapon in our battle against the Arabs. Senator, we have no place else to go”.
After Gaza is solved in the next year or so, the World will move on to something else. That’s assuming the future plan for Gaza is well thought out.
Then Israel turns to Ayosh (Judea and Samaria) – The West Bank – the final piece to the puzzle. When that is taken care of, the Palestinian issue is moot.
JackWayne at 5:56pm had an excellent idea, one that even today Israel could implement.
From the northeast corner of Gaza to the closest point in the west bank is 23 miles.
Israel can tell every inhabitant of Gaza to head to that corner of Gaza, then march/truck them out of harm’s way. Anyone who remains in Gaza is fair game for capture or killing. The people being moved can be ID’d, checked for weapons. They will be fed. They will be out of the way.
A huge logistical undertaking, yes, but a small price to pay for eliminating the threat.
Cue the cries of ethnic cleansing, Trail of Tears II. Israel’s response? “We want to make sure that no genocide is going on, no famine.”
The IDF can then go through Gaza in relative safety, using robots, drones, remote devices instead of soldiers to go through the tunnels and caves. Once that is done, they can sell the beachfront property to Trump, reopen the greenhouses, and resettle the area with peaceful people.
The part about Trump was not totally serious, but the rest is.
Great post and comments. Israel has not lost me.
Pure B.S. The “friends that Israel lost were never their friends. The best response to them is to win a smashing victory.
There’s nothing Israel can do that would win the approval of the world, except to die. They’re going to be condemned in any case, win or lose – so they might as well win.
“stalk away”
Boohoo, someone responded to a comment you made
“I won’t be engaging you further”
My life is ruined lol
I would suggest that part of the problem is that Westerners have been deliberately dumbed down about the history of Islam vs the West. All most broadly know about is some vague idea of the ” crusades”. I don’t think they realize that Islam was the aggressor both BEFORE and After the Crusades….
There is also a problem stirring within Evangelical Christianity – which is strongly supportive of Israel. Think US Ambassador to Israel and Baptist minister Mike Huckabee for example. A very strong supporter of Israel who sees Jews as a Covenant people to whom the land of Israel belongs via Divine Right.
There are stirrings within Evangelical circles – I saw it today with something forwarded to me via text – to essentially erase that support. I fired off a response to a number of people in my circle.
Disturbing indeed.
Jon Baker, agree there is substantial ignorance about Islam. Not hard to understand this status before 911, with “interfaith” meeting among the Abrahamic leaderships, and with Bush’s “religion of peace” nonsense. Harder to believe greater understanding has not really seeped into our culture – or is hiding among a silent majority not yet willing to voice disapproval.
I am not as deeply invested in self education on that ideology as some here, but it seems to me a core element of addressing this problem of “strife on the borders of Muslim lands” is to find a way to move Allah (or at least his caliph designed doppelganger) out from under a designation as a religion covered by the 2nd Amendment.
A similar but probably less demanding (i.e., dangerous) situation is the current brouhaha in Texas about that Hindu god statue and related impacts on local culture and concerns over levels of assimilation to the American Creed and the culture originally provided by Northern European Protestants.
Re: Islam — How I became conservative
Jon baker, R2L:
Back in the nineties I was a leftist on a progressive bulletin board. I found myself debating an American turned Muslim, which led me to read a book on the history of Islam and a translation of the Qu’ran.
I was shocked. One doesn’t have to read much to get a lock on what an authoritarian, supremacist, intolerant, violent religion Islam is.
Fast forward to 9-11. The timing caught me by surprise but the motivation didn’t. Then I read leftists blaming America. “Why do they hate us?” From there my leftism unraveled.
I tell Americans to read the Qu’ran or even to browse it randomly.
Few do.
Israel desperately needs a vision for post-war Gaza that allows most Gazans to have most Human Rights, yet not be allowed to kill more Jews.
This is so difficult that most Israelis, as well as the world, don’t even talk about it.
So far I’ve read of no plan better than vague control without occupation. Which many folk, and I, doubt will stop the bloodlust to kill Jews.
Total occupation, with POW camps & work camps & school camps & more money based production orgs are a better idea. As is a 5 canton Swiss/Singapore development model.
Israel controls the North Gaza “canton” but is failing to set up reconstruction & occupation orgs. Better lives for Gazans will, slowly, reduce the world condemnation.