The bots and the Republicans: Epstein, Israel, and more
Ever since I underwent my political change, I’ve noticed that the right has a tendency to sabotage itself for little or no reason, or for reasons I think are trivial or misguided or the result of unrealistic perfectionism, or as a reaction to manipulative propaganda from the left. That’s not an inclusive list, and some of these things can co-exist.
I see elements of this shaping up again.
There’s Musk’s third party effort, which can only help the left. There’s people who think Trump is covering up important information about Epstein’s supposed clients or his death. There’s the anger of the Tucker Carlson wing, who hate the fact that Trump aided Israel and is about to aid Ukraine. I’m probably leaving out other things, too, but those are the biggest ones I see at the moment. It’s the old circular firing squad routine into which people on the right fall so very easily. It’s depressing, because things are going rather well at the moment, and turning the House (or Congress as a whole) over to the left would be disastrous. And yet many people on the right seem determined to do that, in order to punish Trump or others who have disappointed them by not doing exactly what they want or everything they want.
In that last sentence, what do I mean by “many people” on the right? Ay, there’s the rub: I don’t know. It’s possibly a large group that could make a big difference. But it’s possibly a much smaller group that merely seems larger because it’s so vocal and active online. My gut feeling is that its numbers are magnified by bots and leftist trolls, and this article seems to be in agreement:
Hostile foreign actors are increasingly using social media to drive a wedge into Donald Trump’s political coalition. Using open-source intelligence and analyses of online activity, we explore this phenomenon, which we call “fake MAGA,” in a recent report for the Network Contagion Research Institute (NCRI).
Our report defines fake MAGA influencers as those who use “Make America Great Again” or “America First” branding to target these audiences but are in fact linked to large-scale bot farms—as evidenced by the creation of massive numbers of such accounts at opportune moments on X. That is, our analysis reveals coordinated account-creation spikes (for instance, during Elon Musk’s Twitter acquisition), followed by synchronized amplification of identical narratives by those same accounts during a crisis.
Typically, fake MAGA operations occur within 48 hours of a high-profile news event and use a consistent strategy. Accounts that appear to mimic MAGA sentiment and claim to put “America First” instead advance agendas aligned with hostile foreign states. For example, these networks have amplified Iranian state propaganda, claiming nuclear inspectors operate under Israeli control, and attacked Trump with accusations of pedophilia and ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
It’s not just on X, although that may be where these investigators focused their energies. And of course, Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens aren’t fake and aren’t bots. But their messages, and the dissension they spawn, are almost certainly carried around the blogosphere by bots and/or trolls, and I’ve noticed it myself. Or at least, I’ve noticed something that appears that way. After so many years of blogging, I have a gut sense about what’s real and what’s manufactured, and I believe at least some of this is manufactured.
I have noticed it for years in the Instapundit comments, for example – comments that are placed through Disqus, which seems to be a big conduit for this sort of thing. For example, see how the comments on this thread devolve quite quickly into “Epstein is indeed a Mossad agent; Carlson is right about that”.
Some of this is heavily anti-Israel and anti-Jewish, and it has been going on for years. Now with Epstein it’s a twofer – they get to air all sorts of anti-Jew, anti-Israel garbage, and they get to hurt Trump as well. They also claim that they represent his base (or former base). But who appointed this group his base?
Here’s how Tucker Carlson rolls on this, and how the Epstein controversy and antisemitism feed into each other:
Within days of Attorney General Pam Bondi admitting that no evidence in the FBI’s files would allow the Justice Department to continue the investigation, former Fox News host Tucker Carlson doubled down on the idea of a government cover-up while speaking at the Turning Point USA conference in Tampa, Fla.
Not only was he willing to hurl such an accusation at an administration made up of his presumable political allies. He went further by claiming to an audience cheering his supposed courage in making such charges that Epstein was an agent of the government of Israel, whose vile actions were somehow part of an effort to blackmail politicians and celebrities. Unsatisfied with such slander, he also invoked the notion that the entire financial industry is some sort of scam—and attacked pro-Israel billionaire Bill Ackman for good measure.
Nor was Carlson alone in trying to make this about Israel and the Jews. Podcaster and former Fox News and NBC journalist Megyn Kelly, who is generally far more responsible than Carlson when it comes to flinging around conspiracy theories, echoed the allegation, also voicing the belief that Epstein was probably a Mossad agent.
I’m shocked at Kelly, if in fact that’s a fair representation of what she said.
For podcasters and social-media “influencers” who thrive only to the extent that they can feed their audiences’ hunger not just for simple answers to complex problems but the kind of conspiratorial thinking that confirms their desire to view every bad thing as a diabolical plot, the Epstein case is a gift that never stops giving. To attach Israel to this sort of topic is a guarantee not only of millions of clicks on videos and podcasts, but also gives those saying such things an instant mass audience that is always willing to believe anything awful that can be said about the Jewish state or the Jews.
Two main points need to be acknowledged in discussing this topic.
One is that neither Carlson nor Kelly—nor anyone else talking about this publicly—has any tangible, concrete evidence of Israeli government involvement in Epstein’s sex crimes. And they freely admit as much.
All they have got are circumstantial allegations that they claim that “everyone” believes. That consists of the fact that the criminal was Jewish, involved in Jewish philanthropy and knew prominent Israelis. …
There was never a chance that even the Trump administration’s admission that the case is closed was going to satisfy those who are up to their necks in wild theories. Telling them that there is no “there” there was, no matter the truth of the matter, never going to silence the doubters or stop scoundrels from seeking to link it to hatred for Israel.
As I said, I don’t know how big this group actually is. But it certainly isn’t non-existent. Carlson has long had a large following, and although there may have been a falloff it’s still large. Same for Candace Owens. These movements are very destructive, and I am convinced the left is very happy to use them to further their own ends – which include antisemitism and GOP losses in the midterms.
In your fourth paragraph, “this article” has no link. I’d like to read it; I’ve been wondering how much of the furor on X is real.
Honestly at this point I couldn’t care less if Epstein turned out to be some kind of a CIA or Mossad (or whomever) asset. It seems to me if he indeed was, he was a total embarrassment to any intellignece agency as his affairs were far too public, depraved, shameful, and salacious. In short, he’d be just a horrible asset. I’d like to believe that any intelligence agency of a first world power would know enough to stay away from attempting to recruit such an individual.
But at any rate, it’s not particularly germaine to all the issues we’re facing now. I get why certain people are obsessed with such a figure with all the unanswered questions that inevitably lead people to believe whatever they want. I just wish people could prioritize better.
Most people who vote Republican do not do so because they want more Republicans. They want Republicans to do something. They don’t always agree on what that thing is, and don’t appreciate being told to shut up when they express dissatisfaction with what their elected officials accomplish and that the alternative is rule by Democrats. Not only is that false (because of the primary process), it’s the “plantation” that Dems have operated for their voters for 80 years and I don’t think we want to be on it.
Most people who vote Democrat do want Democrats in charge, do not particularly care which Democrats, and will endorse whatever those Democrats do. (There are Republicans who are like this, of course.)
Republicans, and this includes Trump, are going to be judged by their voters on what they do, not on having an R instead of a D. The sooner they figure this out, the less likely they go back to minority status. Trump convinced a lot of people his heart was in the right place, and he gained a lot of grace and trust from his voters, but he’s been burning that credibility recently. If he turns it into solid accomplishments meaningful to his voters then it will all turn out okay. If it turns into tax cuts and foreign wars and more deficit spending and illegal immigration / H1Bs for the GOPe, it won’t.
Panic whores on the right always need a fresh hook to generate eyeballs and clicks.
Qui bono?
It is all about them and their rice bowl.
The border, the deportations, the judicial insurrection, defunding alphabet federal agencies, Ukraine and Russia are important. Panic whores are pathetic and sad, so don’t be one of their usefull idiots.
OMG, no one expects Foreign Wars!
I think most Republican voters are in favor of tax cuts. Unfortunately deficit spending is par for the course without some very extreme measures. Deeply cutting military spending, education spending, entitlement spending (Social Security, Medicare) ect. may not be very popular.
Kate:
Fixed the link.
@Nonapod:Unfortunately deficit spending is par for the course without some very extreme measures. Deeply cutting military spending, education spending, entitlement spending (Social Security, Medicare) ect. may not be very popular.
Math doesn’t care. Things will get cut, either with or without the approval of the voters, either with or without elected officials behaving responsibly. The Gods of the Copybook Headings will see to it if we don’t.
According to Speaker Mike Johnson if the GOP doesn’t rein spending in they “don’t deserve to hold power. The national debt is a grave threat to America’s economic and national security…” He said that after he was reelected Speaker so no one extracted the words from him under duress.
Whether those words were truth or a lie, he is accountable for them.
The answer is not to elect Democrats, obviously, though that possibility is a convenient straw man for GOP apologists: it’s to carefully and selectively refine who in the GOP gets to hold office. After a few examples the others will come to Jesus.
The NRA was very successful with this; alas it devolved into another grift once most of the battles had been won. Elon Musk could be as well, if he learns the right lesson from what third parties can and cannot achieve. Very simple for him to say this Republican has the America Party’s endorsement and that one doesn’t. There are long-existent third parties that do this.
Does Musk understand you don’t get the deciding vote if the issue never makes it out of committee?
I want things to move fast, in miniseries time, but that is not realistic. So I am staying in “standby to be amazed” mode.
So the house reduced noaa cutback from 27% to 6% heres an example maybe they were panicked over events at camp mystic (despite there was no causality) in the senate it took vance breaking the tie on those doge cuts
Megyn is still resting on this supposed comment by acosta to vicky ward who is very dubious as a outlet
First of all, let me state that my views on the Epstein case largely echo those of our hostess as she expressed them just a few days ago. However, I’m not a member of Trump’s base. I’m a national security conservative, and Trump’s base is trying to drum me and others like me out of the Republican Party. That said…
”But who appointed this group his base?”
They appointed themselves Trump’s base by their enthusiastic support of him the very day he came down that escalator in 2015. They are the ones that flooded the internet with support in the following days. They are the ones who attended his rallies by the millions. They are the ones who stood in line for hours to vote for him in the early primaries of 2016 when he was still considered by the mainstream to be a fringe candidate. They are the ones who stood by him after the stolen election of 2020, the so-called insurrection, the false charges of rape, bank fraud, and felonious campaign management, and the multiple assassination attempts.
For them, the world is run by a Deep State conspiracy involving child rape on an industrial scale. They believe that Hillary Clinton personally ran a pedophile ring out of a DC pizza parlor. They believe that Bill Gates had a dungeon under his ranch in Wyoming which held captive children for his guests to rape and murder. They believe that Anthony Fauci and Hunter Biden personally built two dozen biowarfare labs in Ukraine under which were catacombs containing 10,000 children each upon which American doctors conducted medical experiments. They believe 2/3 of the Congress and most international businessmen personally rape, torture, and murder children on a regular basis.
I have met quite a few of them, both online and in real life. Many of them consider Trump (and Putin) to be a modern-day messiah out to destroy this deep-state evil.
One of the most astounding things about Trump up until now has been his political savvy. He has been able to generate a following and to rally support to issues unlike any American politician of the last 200 years. On this issue, however, he’s really stepped on a rake.
This is *the* most important issue to his base. If you believe millions of children are being raped everyday (and they do), how could it be otherwise? If Trump doesn’t reverse course fast, American politics is going to head in a whole different direction. As critical as I’ve been to Trump on a few issues, I’m not relishing that. Not at all.
For all his teasing and trolling, Donald Trump knows he can’t serve another term. This is it for him. And so he is moving fast and breaking things. He plotted with Stephen Miller for four years about how to go about getting done what he wanted to get done, what the resistance would look like, and how to get around it.
And now, six months in, everybody’s worried that some MAGA influencers no longer “like” the President because of Jeffrey Epstein? Think about how little Donald Trump cares about being liked, by them or even by average voters.
If he gets a lot done, like he has in just half a year, none of this matters. JD Vance says, “I wouldn’t have done anything differently,” and gets elected.
If this turns out to be the end and nothing else happens (which I doubt), JD Vance says, “I would’ve done better with the Epstein Files and get elected.
People are acting like it’s politics as usual. Can you not see how different things are? Can you not see the STARK difference between the parties? Don’t miss the circus for the sideshow.
mkent:
I’m aware that that’s the assumption – that the people turning on him now because of Epstein are those who supported him originally and through thick and thin. I’d like to see some sort of evidence of that and of their numbers. I’m not convinced it’s the case that there are so many of them who have deserted him and that will stay home in 2026 and I’m not sure who they are and at what point they started supporting Trump.
For example, did this group ever vote for GOP members of Congress (which is the issue in 2026), or did they only vote for Trump in 2024 and not vote for the down-ticket GOP candidates? I’ve seen no data on that, but those are the type of questions I have. Sounds to me like it’s the QAnon group.
As Davy Crockett said”Y’all can go to hell, I’m going to Texas”
This is a very complicated story and many people want slogans, not complicated answers to complicated stories.
I think the whole Mossad/owned by intelligence is a red herring. It would be interesting to know based on the Acosta statement (which Vicky Ward stands by) and the very lenient sentence he received in 2008, but it is just a sidebar.
The key here, IMO, is why the drumbeat of releasing unredacted documents now. The left and those who take pleasure/profit in undermining the President (or any president in general) had four years to have had the documents released. There was no interest during the Biden years and if Donald Trump could have been implicated through release then (whether legally or leaking) it would have been done in the 2024 election.
I was listening to Charlie Kirk this morning and I think he has a good explanation why President Trump has reacted so strongly on Truth Social. It’s very likely some implicating document has been added (or an existing document doctored) to the thousands of pages of documents accumulated in the SDNY files– an investigation that ended in 2019 or at the latest in 2021 with the conviction of Ghislaine Maxwell.
That would explain why Trump has said he wants “credible” documents to be released– it’s possible there may be phony documents in the mix. Documents that could be disproven– but the innuendo would do the damage Democrats seek.
And why didn’t federal prosecutors pursue charges of statutory rape against Epstein’s clients? Some of the reason might be this:
“Many of Epstein’s victims pursued civil lawsuits rather than criminal cases, resulting in settlements with Epstein’s estate or associated individuals. For example, Epstein’s estate paid $155 million in restitution to over 125 victims, and JPMorgan reached a settlement with victims for its role in handling Epstein’s accounts. These financial resolutions may have reduced pressure for criminal prosecutions, as victims sought closure through compensation rather than lengthy trials against elusive clients.”
If this is true, there may be no cases to prosecute, since it would be very difficult to get a conviction without the victim’s testimony.
In 2008 the agreement included a non prosecution agreement against other involved. A judge in 2019 ruled that agreement wasn’t binding to the federal case in New York, but it could give defendant’s additional reasons and make convictions harder.
It would be nice to know, though, the names of those who sought sexual encounters with underage girls so they could be, at minimum, publicly shamed.
Well this wouldnt have come up if Bondi had not hung a lantern on this.
Thos strategy of denial doesnt seem too swift specially with at least a portion of the podcast knowledge who dont accept official statements at face value calling them idiots for asking questions look like its own goal
I dont know thd truth of alephantis the significant other of david brock of media matters thats who owned the pizzeria but stranger things have happened with cults of well connected persons
I think there is more than heat than light on both sides of the picture but a little clarity would be appreciated
As I said last week, I don’t know the details on Epstein and I’m not sure what I think on the issue. I don’t think Trump et al responses have been convincing and have actually added to the fire.
I still think this can bring him down, and Trump, AND those accusing of a cover up had better think long and hard if they want this administration to continue. The left has grabbed to this and won’t let go, and the Stupid Party is helping them.as they usually do.
Brian E:
You ask, “And why didn’t federal prosecutors pursue charges of statutory rape against Epstein’s clients?”
I believe it was because of poor evidence, basically nothing other than the word of 2 women many many years after the supposed fact. In a criminal case the standard of proof is high, but in a civil case it’s much lower. And in a civil case, the goal is getting money, which can be obtained through a settlement.
It’s interesting how some people on the right are now into “believe all women.”
In addition to the $155 million Epstein’s estate paid to victims, it’s reported:
“JPMorgan Chase: In June 2023, JPMorgan Chase reached a $290 million settlement with Epstein’s victims in a class-action lawsuit alleging the bank facilitated Epstein’s sex trafficking by ignoring warnings about his financial activities. The settlement resolved claims that the bank profited from its relationship with Epstein while he abused underage girls.
Deutsche Bank: Deutsche Bank settled with Epstein’s victims for $75 million in a separate lawsuit, also related to claims that the bank enabled Epstein’s trafficking by handling his accounts despite red flags. This settlement was noted in posts on X and news reports in 2023.”
These settlements totaling more than $520 million might make it impossible to find a victim to pursue charges.
What doesn’t help is that there is no reliable way of knowing how important an issue is to “the public”. Polls were compromised long ago and never that great to begin with.
All we know is who makes the most noise online. Democrats got to where they are today by thinking that what was important to 2% of the population was important to everyone–for example when every Dem in the 2019 debate raised their hand when asked if they would provide health coverage for illegal immigrants, or Kamala Harris’s past efforts to provide sexual reassignment surgery in California prisons and her intention to do the same for Federal prisons.
”The key here, IMO, is why the drumbeat of releasing unredacted documents now.”
It’s because a few months ago Pam Bondi said on national TV that the Epstein list was “on her desk” undergoing final review and would be released shortly. Then a few days ago she publicly stated that there was no list and, in fact, there was no case at all. “Nothing to see here. Move along.” as the old saying goes.
Neo explained a few days ago how that could happen, but it should have been obvious to everyone in the administration that this wasn’t going to be believed by the people who believe in daily Deep State child rapes. And so the brouhaha erupted, and the Democrats, sensing an opportunity, piled on, as they always do.
But the underlying issue and its importance to the base were there long before the pile-on, and Trump’s latest gamble of “I don’t want your support” is going to be costly.
mkent, it’s worse than that. This is more than just Bondi making some sloppy comments. This is a self-inflicted wound by Pam Bondi that begins months ago.
In January of this year non-credentialed “journalists”/influencers/podcasters were invited to the White House and end up receiving binders that were Phase 1 and the SDNY office held thousands of pages of documents that would be released in Phase 2.
This prompted a few of those people to make unverified/overstate claims of what was going to be coming. To make matters worse some of these people taunted the credential press with the binders who hadn’t been invited into the White House.
I posted an interview by Megan Kelly with Liz Wheeler, one of the podcasters at that meeting with Bondi, a couple of days ago– and it’s worth watching to understand the magnitude of this botched PR stunt. These videos were recorded a week ago.
Did Pam Bondi Lie About the Epstein Files and Embarrass Trump and MAGA? With Liz Wheeler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq69hY_stQE
In this second video Liz Wheeler describes the meeting, the binders and how it all blew up.
Liz Wheeler Details What Happened Behind-the-Scenes When She Received “Epstein Files” at White House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_lVGxYPAM
I’m pretty sure I prefer it when the voters let their leaders know they’re dissatisfied, as opposed to voters that obediently do what they’re told, and are so loyal to the party line that winning office is everything, and anything less is disaster, morality be damned.
We’ve had plenty of the latter over the past few years, and it hasn’t done much for the health of the republic as far as I can tell.
Regardless of what ‘there’ is ultimately there in the Epstein case, transparency is one thing that Trump got elected on, and what he’s been pretty good about delivering, so far – but that’s not what is being offered right now. Instead, it’s the Wizard at the door, telling Dorothy to ‘go away and come back tomorrow’.
“…They believe 2/3 of the Congress and most international businessmen personally rape, torture, and murder children on a regular basis…”
Is that actually what these folks believe?
(Are there folks actually folks?)
I think thats an exaggeration but look at the congress has suppressed a whole host of ethics reports and settlements with various parties
Transparency is something that seems to be sadly lacking and this breeds suspicion among those who dont want to accept the conventional view
And this course of action, just exacerbates this attitude
Aggie, the cost of letting Democrats take back Congress in the midterm would be HUGE.
We are winning on so many fronts, we shouldn’t give that up.
I think the Trump administration has handled the Epstein case about as poorly as it could have been handled and his poll numbers show a slight decrease in the past week or so. But if the economy is doing well next year and the average person feels like they are better off, I don’t think this will be that costly to Republicans in the midterms. A lot can and will happen between now and November 2026.
I think Pam Bondi is in over her head and was a poor choice for AG. I think she should resign or be fired for her careless handling of a case that at the very least has damaged Trump in the eyes of many of his staunchest supporters. But after the Sessions fiasco in his first term, I think Trump values loyalty in his AG above all else. And I think he views Bondi as loyal.
I think Alan Dershowitz is telling the truth about the evidence that exists about Epstein. There is no “client list” per se, only affidavits of accusers that may not be completely accurate. As he says, most of these names have been out in the public for years. As has been already noted, the payouts as the result of civil lawsuits make it unlikely that there will now be any further criminal charges.
I don’t think Epstein was the leader of a massive international ring of pedophiles. He was someone who helped facilitate under-the-table financial deals between wealthy people and governments who wanted things done that could not be traced back to them. To help in making deals, Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell recruited women and in some cases underage girls to come to parties and sometimes have sex with Epstein’s clients. This is very sleazy behavior but it is not the same as operating a pedophile ring. I don’t think Epstein was in the habit of blackmailing his clients. That would be bad for business.
The MAGA influencers who believe in the pedophile blackmail version of this case do so because it fits their view of a world that is controlled by a club of rich depraved men. This conspiratorial worldview has been bolstered by all the lies that have been revealed in the past few years about our elections, the fitness of Biden, the Covid pandemic etc. etc.
Many people have lost all trust in our government and our institutions and therefore will believe in almost anything if it confirms their worldview.
I knew someone who actually believed the pizza parlor pedophile ring story, and of course there was the guy from NC who drove up and went, armed, into the pizza parlor to rescue the children who weren’t there. I have no idea how many people still believe this stuff. It may be many; just think of polls showing 60% of Dems still believe in the Russian collusion hoax.
“a few months ago Pam Bondi said on national TV that the Epstein list was “on her desk” undergoing final review and would be released shortly. Then a few days ago she publicly stated that there was no list…” mkent
Which begs the question; was she lying then or is she lying now?
If then, what did she expect to gain by a lie that would inevitably be exposed?
If lying now, a cover-up is a virtually certain conclusion.
Worse yet, Trump’s support for Bondi makes him complicit in the lie and if the latter, now part of the cover-up…
Trump’s support rests upon his doing his best to deliver on his promises and his, up till now… transparency.
By definition, lying is an attempt to avoid transparency…
Apparently, Trump forgot that “the buck stops on his desk’.
Here’s an interesting (if unsurprising) one:
RENT-A-DEMO!!
“…Rent-A-Protester CEO Rejects $20 Million Contract To Stage Anti-Trump Protests”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-rent-protester-ceo-rejects-20-million-contract-stage-anti-trump-protests
(The reasoning behind the decision is also pretty, um, interesting….)
“It would be nice to know, though, the names of those who sought sexual encounters with underage girls so they could be, at minimum, publicly shamed.” = Brian E.
That’s the crux of most of the complaints I see/read/hear. Many, many people believe there are other pedophiles besides Epstein who deserve to be punished. It’s a matter of justice being served for them. And, since the government has done so much gaslighting through the years, they’re convince this has got to be another massive cover up.
What surprises me is how quickly some of them (Carlson and Kelly) are willing to quickly turn on Trump.
How long before we read, yet again, ‘Trump was right’: https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114863203348237352
@Don, I completely share that view. The historical odds say that it’s likely one or both houses might flip in the mid-terms. Either one would be bad, both would mean an constructive end to Trump’s administration. With that at stake, it’s hard to understand why the administration would play the Epstein case in this way. But I feel strongly that leaving it unresolved for the voters, as it presently is, will spell unnecessary trouble for the midterms. The longer it remains unresolved, the higher the imagined importance of what is unknown about Epstein.
Maybe maybe not why did the House flip in 2018 if the circumstances were positive
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1945616076328288430
Now if more retirements like mark green continue we will have dems by default
Can the situation be resolved with the above circumstances described
The left is pushing the Epstein narrative, and some very stupid Rep are eating it up. This is really a Nothing Burger. In the larger picture of what Trump is trying to do, it does not matter. But some just will not let it go.
Aggie:
Play it what way? There are no files of guilty clients. Did you read what Dershowitz said?
@Neo, yes I listened to what Dershowitz said, in the link you previously provided. I don’t know what evidence exists, and in addition to saying there’s no list and making reference to the New York judges, he stated that his awareness had its limits, too.
I’m not particularly interested in the Epstein saga, but I think the administration has made an unforced error in its treatment of it, by saying there is nothing to reveal, nothing to discuss, and then basically by going on the offensive to those still asking questions. I think leaving it unresolved this way creates unnecessary political damage that Republicans can ill afford in the midterms.
How to play it? If it’s a political problem that’s been created, then maybe a political solution is called for: Reaffirm the commitment to transparency and establish a blue-ribbon commission to deep dive into the matter, and put out a report on what is known about Epstein’s business, how he made his questionable fortune, what business he was plying, and what the government’s involvement was, including his investigation and arrest. That way it’s on the record and subject to scrutiny. That way it’s being ‘dealt with’ and the business of the administration can move on.
The main thing I don’t understand about this is why Trump is Streisanding. It’s not usual for him.
I think that to the extent that Not All Has Been Revealed, Epstein was probably an asset of somebody’s intelligence (I actually think ours), and there are still useful people and events in the collected files that would be rendered useless by public revelation. And I think Bondi and Patel and Bongino didn’t know that when they first started shooting off their mouths about releasing the files.
So here we are. If Trump would have kept it zipped, it probably wouldn’t have escalated to this point (though there are and have been for several years people agitating for action). But he didn’t.
So now, I want to hear an explanation – as transparent as possible without burning valuable assets – because the Streisand effect demands something. Or, if truly there is nothing but an address book of people Maxwell thought would be worth “cultivating,” say that. You won’t be believed by the people who won’t believe anything but the most elaborate secret and nefarious scheme, but you will at least come off as responsive and transparent to most people.
I hope it’s not too late for that.
The main thing I don’t understand about this is why Trump is Streisanding. It’s not usual for him.
@Jamie:
Because right now the Leftie talking heads on CNN are calling for the files to be released.
What if they get dropped Friday evening and there’s a nasty little paragraph in there about Bill Clinton or Barak Obama having a baby oil frolic with Ghislaine and four teenaged girls?
Well, you asked for it CNN. He’s angling for leverage to shut the media up.
I agree with you Neo the Left and Right, especially the Left have outsized voices, much of it due to mastery of technology.
I agree with the gist of neo’s post. There is a lot of potential reward with minimal cost and risk for North Korea, China, Russia, Iran… to use the Internet to foster anger, fear and dissension in the U.S.A. I think they are doing it on a large scale.
I don’t think the Right has decided to embrace “believe all women”.
The online Right has mostly long ago lost track of what was known when and how and what was said by whom. They are believing the takes of bloggers they trust, people they follow on X, and the games of telephone played in blog comments sections. The “pedophiles flown to the private island” narrative long ago became one of those things that “everybody knows” which isn’t questioned anymore. A few of us are starting to go back over it now.
I personally have learned more from what was published before 2008 than from anything that I’ve seen published since. That’s because the past keeps getting rewritten, people don’t remember what happened even three weeks ago.
Look what happened just this week when Dershowitz was incorrectly described as saying he had seen a “client list”. Hardly anyone clicked through to see what was actually said, or blogged about it, they just copied somebody else’s take from the headline.
It’s not a case of “believe all women” at all.
@Rufus:North Korea, China, Russia, Iran… to use the Internet to foster anger, fear and dissension in the U.S.A. I think they are doing it on a large scale.
We’re plenty able to do this ourselves, and almost certainly are. I doubt foreign actors are accomplishing any more of it than they did with Jesus-arm-wrestling-Satan memes in 2016.
The reason the Right does this self-destructive stuff is that the Right is actually a cluster of only semi-related groups with somewhat conflicting goals.
Why would Musk start a third party that can only help the Dems? Well, partly a big ego, I think, he shares that with Trump.
But mostly it’s because Musk is not MAGA. Yeah, he’s alienated from the Dems, but he still doesn’t agree with most of what MAGA wants. He’s fine with ending illegal immigration, because he has no profit stake in that. But H1-B? Hands Off!
Musk’s preferred policies would probably be corporate/libertarian, with some support for free speech and so forth.
So I suspect he might be trying to force the GOP toward his own preferred policies.
MAGA are basically Democrats, as Democrats were prior to 1968-72. Musk is not.
The same thing is true all over the GOP voting ranks. You have MAGA, and national security Republicans. There is about 50% overlap of policy there, both believe in a strong military and an assertive U.S. posture, but MAGA is far more reluctant to undertake world policing, rightly or wrongly.
You have MAGA and the business wing of the GOP. Nearly zero overlap. About all they agree on are tax cuts, and MAGA might well be on board for higher taxes on the very rich. Free trade, open borders immigration, ‘any willing worker’, erasing worker protections, basically MAGA hates everything the business wing likes, and vice versa.
And so on. The ‘Right’ is a coalition of groups united primarily by their opposition to the ruling Dems (and the business wing actually gets on pretty good with the Dems). So as soon as they come to power, the struggle for control immediately reignites, over and over. It happened in 1994, in 2000, in 2016, and now in 2025.
This is Guardian (a fair warning), but still is worth notice
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/16/the-base-terrorist-group-ukraine-assassination
Yep, when it comes to political suicide, conservatives and Republicans are world class experts.
Some time ago I commented on this site that Trump has about 6 months after taking office to get done what he wants before the dumbpublicans begin to self destruct.
Perhaps it’s even 9 months or one year.
But as sure as night follows day, Trumps putative allies will turn on him.
Unfortunately, Musk – Trump’s strongest ally for a while – bailed out on him.
Not a good sign for things to come.
The Dems do not need to get their act together. They just need to wait for the dumbpublicans to self destruct.
As Napoleon said, ” never interrupt the enemy when they are making a mistake.”
As John Hinderaker points out at Power Line, if the remaining files on Epstein are raw investigative files, those are never released publicly because of collateral damage to people who were not involved in any crime, or for whom insufficient evidence of criminal conduct was found.
JohnTyler @ 741am:
“Yep, when it comes to political suicide, conservatives and Republicans are world class experts.
Some time ago I commented on this site that Trump has about 6 months after taking office to get done what he wants before the dumbpublicans begin to self destruct.
Perhaps it’s even 9 months or one year.
But as sure as night follows day, Trumps putative allies will turn on him. ”
Exactly what I’ve been warning about since last week. Now this morning one finds numerous right wing under cutting of Trump based on Epstein:
1) even the babylonbee: https://babylonbee.com/news/man-who-vowed-to-release-epstein-files-berates-idiots-for-believing-there-are-epstein-files
2) whatfinger, the far right answer to Drudge has this morning has 3 glaring, in your face items: “Trump digs himself deeper with ridiculous comments on the coverup”; “Trump nukes his own base over Epstein”; “Solomon says Trump would appoint special prosecutor for Epstein…SURE!!”
When the far right whatfinger which has done nothing but laud every Trump win so far, turns so brutally on him, what happens now??? Between them, and their surprising allies over at MSNBC, this is not going away. Who would have thought the far right would join with the far left in such?
I’m certainly no political thinker like many here, so I have no idea of what the solution would be. But something has to be done, and soon, before all the gains in the last 7 months go to hell.
A fmr defense contractor that cosplays as a white nationalist very convenient atomwaffen is largely funded by the bureau
Of course the guardian is all in with hamas which might be blood brothers with some of these elements under the skin
The outrage industry on X feasts on contradictions. The AG’s unsigned Friday night memo set them on fire and for some reason POTUS keeps fanning the flames. I suspect as others have noted there’s is no one left to prosecute regarding the sex crimes which inflame internet and political passions and the curious silence from the IC lends credence to the belief that Epstein was “helpful” in hiding the source of money being used in support of numerous covert activities such as Iran-Contra which leaves much of what the USG “knows” about Epstein out of the AG’s and the FBI’s reach.
The factions will move on when the clicks are left unclicked. For now, it’s good for business and bad for everything else.
I cancelled my account on GAB quite a while ago. The place just got to be a sewer. Free speech is a good thing. But it’s also freedom to spout whatever crazy ass thing you want. In the case of GAB, everyone who wants to holler the dreaded “N-word” has a never ending field day shouting it. It gets tedious. Even so, I still click over to the site to check on the non-subscriber view.
The Trump/Epstein stuff is just ridiculous over there. The common thread is to scream some version of, “Pedophiles! Kill the pedophiles! It’s all Israel, It’s all the Jews!”
Of course, we cannot know what exactly was going on on Epstein’s island. I would speculate that “under age girls” may mean some teens, but that it doesn’t mean pre-pubescent children, satanic rituals, and child murder for adrenochrome harvesting.
Ace had an editorial yesterday that compared the Epstein hysteria to Watergate, back in 1974. I see a similarity. Nixon, for whatever faults he had, was a good president. The Watergate break in was unethical, but it was hardly high crimes. It was the media pile-on, the relentless calls for political blood pushing public opinion that led to Nixon resigning. They’re trying to do the same with Trump. Unfortunately, as many have observed, Trump could (shall we say…) do better with his end of it.
JWM
I would far sooner believe Epstein had connections at the CIA than I would the idea that he was a Mossad agent.
@jwm:Free speech is a good thing. But it’s also freedom to spout whatever crazy ass thing you want. In the case of GAB, everyone who wants to holler the dreaded “N-word” has a never ending field day shouting it. It gets tedious.
As Scott Alexander said
@Kate: I don’t think any intelligence connections are all that plausible, but Mossad is as likely as any other. Israel does spy on the US as does practically every other country, and intelligence services are not in general known for strict adherence to moral scruples and I don’t know why Mossad would be an exception.
Think of the kinds of people Mossad has to make use of in the Middle East, for example in Iran or Gaza. No matter how bad Epstein is, he doesn’t compare to those people.
Occams razor doesnt swing one way
https://asiatimes.com/2019/08/with-epstein-dead-saudi-links-become-a-black-hole/#
Which is ironic because then riyadh gov (now king) salman is venomously anti semitic and anti western
jwm:
I’m convinced that a lot of the Epstein furor is an outlet for antisemitism, the hatred that never sleeps.
Neo, I agree about the antisemitism.
But if Epstein was an intelligence asset, he could as likely been associated with the CIA. In fact, based on Acosta’s comment it’s more likely he was CIA than Mossad.
I think some/most of the speculation about Mossad was his relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell’s father who some claim worked for Mossad, based on his lavish funeral on the Mount of Olives.
Would the CIA have told the DOJ to back off if Epstein was working for Mossad, given the sometimes rocky relationship between US and Israeli intelligence, though?
Then there’s Epstein’s relationship to Adnan Khashoggi, an Saudi arms dealer.
Even if he worked for Mossad, the CIA would have known and approved of his work, which would make sense to blackmail prominent figures over underage sex.
Besides, everyone loves a juicy spy conspiracy theory or two.
I see a similarity. Nixon, for whatever faults he had, was a good president.
==
No he wasn’t.
Brian E:
I don’t think one needs to search for logic behind the Mossad allegation. It’s the universal boogyman for Jew-haters. If I recall correctly, the Mossad killed Kennedy, felled the World Trade Center, and a thousand other crimes.
@neo:It’s the universal boogyman for Jew-haters.
Mossad is unlike the boogeyman, or the Elders of Zion, in one important respect, in that Mossad actually exists and actually does have agents in the US, and it is not antisemitism in all cases to say that Mossad did thus-and-so.
The rumors of Epstein and Mossad have been reported for years, one source being a former Israeli intelligence officer who may not have been telling the truth and doesn’t seem to have been the most upright person, but doesn’t seem to be an anti-Semite either.
Whether Epstein was involved with Mossad or not is a factual question, and its truth or falsity does not depend on if antisemites want to believe it, but on evidence that the public hasn’t seen if it exists.
Let me add that I don’t think it is sinister or wrong for Mossad to spy on the United States. That’s the bare minimum of doing their job, which is to look out for Israel’s best interest. It is certainly a very serious wrong for Americans to betray American secrets to Mossad, but that’s on them, not on Mossad. Israelis shouldn’t be betraying Israeli secrets to the CIA either.
Like I said earlier I don’t think it’s all that likely Epstein’s trafficking in minors had anything to do with any intelligence service. But little is known and there are lots of rumors and I don’t think it’s necessarily blameworthy that someone else doesn’t see it that way, even if they do think Mossad might have been involved.
Epstein a Mossad asset, No.
This must be the answer!
(h/t commenter at Hoyt)
https://x.com/stephenkruiser/status/1945518874683924632
SFK @stephenkruiser
What if — just bear with me here — the Epstein list was written with Joe Biden’s autopen?
Sarah Hoyt counsels cautious patience and letting Trump keep working on the good things being accomplished, even if he is shooting himself in the foot.
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2025/07/17/a-decent-respect/