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Purposeful misunderstanding: the slogan “Free Palestine” — 31 Comments

1. Back in my ESL days I had several students from the Middle East, but only one from Jordan specifically. Like all of my middle eastern students he had notions about politics and the world that would, I think, be difficult for any westerner to wrap their head around. But he used to love to talk to me about this stuff because I was one of the few Americans who knew anything at all about his country. One day we’re talking about the period right after the war in ‘48, and I’m asking about the Palestinian refugees who wound up in Jordan. After about the fourth time I said “Palestinians”, he said, “You know, there are no Palestinians. They’re Arabs who used to live in Israel.” He clearly didn’t like the term, or frankly to think much of them. When I asked for a bit of clarification he said, “We (I assume he meant native Jordanians) never call them that. They call themselves that sometimes.”

2. Typo: Samaria, not Sumeria.

3. bof:

   Oops, thanks.

   Sumeria is a whole nother ballgame.

4. Were they Sumerians or Sumerites?

5. Re: Free Palestine

   Where can I get me some? The price is right. 🙂

6. I was puzzled why the Boulder fire bomber yelled “Free Palestine,” when he was an Egyptian who spent many years in Kuwait. Occam’s razor suggested that he was just another Islamist with a special hatred for people who control an area once controlled by Muslims. And add an extra helping of hatred if those people are Jews.

7. There has never been a country named Palestine. It is an imaginary country like wakanda and Palestinians are the imaginary citizens of this imaginary country.

8. part of three vilayets under the ottomans, gaza since 2006 and the PA since 1994, has had an opportunity to do what Israel did since 47, to show it is a decent state, but it can’t do that, because their leadership and many of their people are not

   from Haj Amin to his nephew, Said Sabri al Banna, et al, is it a coincidence that the former has been in support of every terrorists, under their mouthpiece, CAIR,
   which was rooted in Hamas, they support terrorists as far away as Indonesia and the Phillipines,

9. The historical ignorance/revisionism of those who mindlessly chant “Free Palestine” is appalling. The land about which they chant was, for over three thousand years, known as “Israel. In the Late Bronze Age (c. 13th century BCE), “Israel” appears in the Merneptah Stele. By then, early Israelite settlements are proven by archaeology to have dotted the central hill country. By the 10th century BC, the kingdoms of Israel (northern) and Judah (southern) emerge and are known as such even through the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities and deportations. Jews lived in the land throughout all that time in reduced numbers, but their numbers increased with the first return from Babylonian-Persian captivity under Nehemiah/Ezra when Cyrus issued his famous Edict, following which a significant jewish presence was never lacking, and during which period the Second Temple was built and subsequently expanded under Herod. The earlier inhabitants of the land, the Amorites, Moabites, Canaanites, Philistines, et al., who were displaced in the Jewish conquest under Joshua have been lost to both history and the human gene pool. It was not until 132-135 AD, following the bar-Kochba revolt that Hadrian undertook to banish the Jews from their homeland, destroyed their capital city of Jerusalem and renamed it Aelia Capitolina, as well as renaming the Jewish homeland “Syria Palestina,” in his desire to obliterate even the memory of the Jews. Those now referred to as “Palestinians” are merely Arabs who found their way into that land from their native homelands when the islamic ummah expanded by virtue of military conquests by the followers of mohammad. Yasser Arafat, the leader of the PLO, is credited with using and popularizing the term “Palestinian” to refer to the Arab population living in the region that is now Israel and Palestine. Prior to Arafat’s leadership, while the term “Palestine” existed, it was not widely used by Arabs in the region to define themselves as a collective. Arafat and the PLO strategically used the term “Palestinian” to create a sense of national identity and claim for the region, particularly after the Six-Day War in 1967. But none of this is known to (or perhaps rather admitted by) the idiot chanters of “Free Palestine.” They are despicable.

10. and their goal is al hijra, invasion by mass immigration, why is the camp of the saints so controversial, because it spells out the goal, the progs think they can prevail against islamists, but when have you actually seen that happen, the Open Society archipelago and the Green CAIR umbrella, may not have exactly the same goal

11. The now 50+ year old novel has actually proven largely visionary. We control our own destiny and controlling immigration and whom we accept as contributors to our wellbeing is essential to our survival as a nation based on law. I am more than happy with my three doctors of Indian and Chinese ancestry and we need more of them.

12. When I was in seminary and was part of a group that went to south India for three weeks we heard a leader of Indian Baptists say “words don’t have meanings, they have uses”. That became what I call a central doctrine of language. It’s why when people wrangle over dictionary definitions they are half correct but are also missing the point.

    How do people *use* the slogan? You address this very well.

    The slogan also represents motte-and-bailey thinking.

    The bailey (easier to defend) is “we just want Palestinians to be free of Israeli presence and control”. We can still easily debate that stance. The Gaza strip has been free of Israeli presence and control for twenty years. Hence easier to defend.

    The motte (more extreme and much more controversial) is “we want the region to be free of Israel and free of Jews”. And since October 7 it is painfully clear (and you address this) that they (and many of their allies in the West) want the world to be free of Jews.

    And thanks to the red-green alliance “free Palestine” for many people means “abolish capitalism”. They see Israel and even Jews in general as representatives thereof.

13. And thanks to the red-green alliance “free Palestine” for many people means “abolish capitalism”. They see Israel and even Jews in general as representatives thereof.

    I think that’s right. And America even more so. They hide behind the notion that their movement is anti-Zionist, but it’s really anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Western, and I’d even say anti-Enlightenment.

14. It’s kind of hard to calculate the number of truly “unaware”. College students seem to be considerably behind the advertising when it comes to education, but anybody can look at a map.
    Not too many years ago–but a brief search hasn’t succeeded–there were reports that kids graduating from college were more anti-American than when they matriculated. Wouldn’t kill me to find it was U-Mich.
    Is there such a thing as auto-dumbing down? I made that up, but there seems to be a phenomenon which requires the concept.
    Some time back, associated with a peace&justice group, I used to contemplate my lack of gold stars in the academic area, then mutter, “then I was a grunt and now I peddle insurance. If I know this stuff, how about all the smart people?”. Point being the peace&justice people didn’t, or professed not to.
    More to the point, they were defensive when one or another issue was pointed out.
    Hence my request for a term less awkward than “auto-dumbing down”.

    There is footage of protestors asked “Which river? Which sea?”. They don’t know, or profess not to know. Who is dumb enough not to ask, “What are you talking about?” before signing on? Or not look at a map. And most of the youngsters asked are on college campuses. Supposedly smart enough to come in out of the rain–let me think about that–and intellectually curious enough to know the difference between a red light and a green light. But they don’t bother to ask. They don’t know in advance?

    Given that they are H. Sap, I can’t believe they’re this dumb. It’s on purpose. But why?

15. Obviously to us, but not to Leftists who don’t think but act as required.

16. I used to work with a fellow from Jordan. I assumed at first that he was Muslim, but after getting to know him, found out he is a Christian. He hated the “Palestinians” with a passion. He said that Jordan used to have a large Christian community, but that Muslims made their life miserable. They essentially became non-citizens, with no rights. Eventually, almost all Christians left Jordan.

17. There has never been a country named Palestine. It is an imaginary country like wakanda and Palestinians are the imaginary citizens of this imaginary country.

    There’s never been a country named Kentucky, Albion, or Detroit, either, yet one can point out their locations on a map and find generations of people who’ve lived there. Just like Palestine.

    If your point is that the modern definition of ‘Palestinian’ is little more than a half-century old, how does that help? The dead from 7 Oct, from the intifada, from whatever, aren’t suddenly not dead because you’ve declared the people that killed them ‘imaginary.’

    And whether or not there has ever been a Palestinian nation-state (I’d generally agree that the orgs that’ve run Gaza and the West Bank haven’t ever risen to that level) there is, now, a Palestinian nation.

    And pretending it doesn’t exist because it’s been, to date, led by murderous thugs doesn’t help anybody.

18. Malice i think

    https://nypost.com/2025/06/07/us-news/boulder-official-dons-palestinian-colors-after-firebombing/

    Theres an attendant irony in her stance

19. All of the above is reasoned, logical, and an educated understanding of the issues.

    But the people screaming aren’t movitated by reason, logic, or an educated and nuanced understanding of the issues.

    They act for EMOTIONAL connections to their group, because they barely exist as an individual, and because they are incapable of change. There’s an old saying, “Who rides a tiger dare not dismount”.

    Those that they are entwined with will NOT let them leave without savaging them. Many are tied by family connections. Others will lose their closest friend connections should they question the cause.

    I was watching PBS showing a Peter, Paul, and Mary tribute last night (my husband is a fan). It’s a quasi religious experience of the Saved, who sing along to their Cause’s well known hymns. They bring their children and grandchildren, who are brought up to follow the Leftist dogma. I doubt many attend any other church; the Old Left Church has replaced it.

    And, now, when two of the members of the group are dead, the lone survivor is grooming his kids to carry on the Holy Traditions.

20. @Steve (retired/recovering lawyer):Those now referred to as “Palestinians” are merely Arabs who found their way into that land from their native homelands when the islamic ummah expanded by virtue of military conquests by the followers of mohammad.

    Not what the genetic evidence says. There were never enough Arabs to replace all those people they conquered: similarly to how the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and Persians never replaced all those people THEY conquered. In the ancient world it was pretty common for tiny numbers of foreigners to take over a whole country: the mass of people don’t change, they just pay taxes to someone else and if they are upwardly mobile they adopt the ways of the new elite.

    Instead, many people conquered by Arabs adopted Arabic language, culture, and religion. Today’s Palestinians are undoubtedly descended in part from Arabs from Arabia, but mostly from the peoples who have always lived in that part of the world, including Jews but also including Phoenicians, Philistines, Moabites, etc.

    Incidentally we might not want to make arguments about Palestinians that cut even better against the right of European-descended people to live in North America.

21. Mccarry predicted this dynamic of westerners embracing islamist or at beat arab nationalist tropes in the better angels as members of the eye of gaza that was nearly 50 years ago he had seen the red army and brigatte rossi adopting these viès

    Jean peters suggests a large albanian origin contingent but as with saudis they can often be or turkish or armenian extraction arafats predecessors were circassian who are turkish

22. Shes what you expect the niece of derrick bell and ward churchill

    https://bouldercolorado.gov/person/taishya-adams

    https://www.kharon.com/brief/boulder-attack-hamas-mohamed-sabry-soliman

    The slouching beast rises toward a city near you

23. @Linda S Fox: And, now, when two of the members of [Peter, Paul and Mary] are dead, the lone survivor is grooming his kids to carry on the Holy Traditions.

    There was a real Christian presence in the Civil Rights movement, especially via black churches, and you can hear that in PP&M, particularly through Paul Stookey, the lone survivor.

    Stookey was the tall one with a nice smile. He wrote “Early in the Morning,” clearly influenced by gospel music, and “Hymn” which was openly about attending Christian church. Later he wrote “Wedding Song” which has become a standard at weddings.

    IMO Stookey always had Christian leanings, but it wasn’t until he was in his 30s that he had a full conversion experience to Christianity. He went on to help start the Jesus Music movement.

    Stookey has played with liberal and conservative Christians. His music is more personal than preachy. He has led a good life.

    There is still a Christian vibe to the progressive movement, although quite watered down, and many progressive Christian churches and members.
    ______________________________

    Sunday morning, very bright, I read Your book by colored light
    That came in through the pretty window picture.

    I visited some houses where they said that You were living
    And they talked a lot about You
    And they spoke about Your giving.
    They passed a basket with some envelopes;
    I just had time to write a note
    And all it said was “I believe in You.”

    –Noel Paul Stookey, “Hymn (Sunday Morning)” (1968)
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ceumx

24. @ Bobah said “There’s never been a country named Kentucky, Albion, or Detroit, either”
    Kentucky is the name of a state, Albion is an alternate name for Great Britian and Detroit is the name of a city. They are not imaginary. What’s your point?

25. Boobah:

    Kentucky and Detroit aren’t claiming to be nations. Nor are they attacking their neighbor states, cities, or nations.

    As far as Palestinian statehood goes, until the 1960s/1970s the Palestinians identified as Arabs who were part of the Arab world and were content with being part of Egypt or Jordan. What they wanted – and what they still want – is Israel, not a state of their own. The Gazans basically had a state and what they did with it was to spend their money on preparing to attack Israel (tunnels dug, armaments gathered, fighters trained) and then attacking Israel during a ceasefire. They don’t want a functioning state or conventional economy and if they did they would have had one ages ago, including as far back as 1947-1948. Instead, they want Israel gone and Jews gone, and they tried to take over every Arab state that had the misfortune to welcome them; therefor they were thrown out. They have a culture, all right – one of death and destruction.

26. it was an ottoman province when Allenby rode into Jerusalem and Nablus, in 1917, they were considered Syrian territory then, Gaza was a particularly brutal affair, in the three battles it took to claim it, Lawrence had little to do with it,
    so for the purposes it might as well be Zanadu or Shangrila,
    Nablus which was where young master Mahdawi was from once called Neapolitan, which is false labeling since it’s far from the sea,

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-qaedas-yemen-chief-threatens-trump-musk-over-gaza-war-there-are-no-red-lines/

    well we can’t let the Houthis have all the fun

27. for those with a short memory, thats the guy from Vermont,

    everyone has to chip in, on these matters, like AQ franchise, with new management like colonel hillah, who previously had been part of the Yemeni security service who was released from Guantanamo not that long ago, along with a host of others who have ended up across the border in Oman,

    they pushed and prodded the notion that he was just some innocent official as with a host of others,

    how this happened was much like the maryland man narrative, where they fooled whoever was running the autopen,

28. “There is footage of protestors asked “Which river? Which sea?”. They don’t know, or profess not to know.”

    There’s a video called “Welcome to Gaza Graduation” where a guy walks around asking new graduates this question and others about Israel/Palestine. The video then shows the tuition at the school they just graduated from.

29. No longer just an academic argument

    https://x.com/Sam_Schulman/status/1931434673466458245

    The would be mayor of the countries largest city somewhat like sadik khan

    Of course the interviewers are quite clueless

30. I figure the left lines up with the Palestinians because those clowns oppose the West and are willing to massacre innocents in their hatred. What could be more yummy than that?
    But the left would find somebody else to partner with, absent the Palis.

    Not sure just how ignorant those crowds are. When you hear them screaming their arguments at a line of counter protestors, they don’t answer the challenges directly. They switch out the meaning by twenty or thirty degrees and yell about that. It’s useless to discuss anything with them since you will never settle on even a preposition should it be inconvenient to them. I don’t know if one can do this without conscious effort.

    It doesn’t matter who the Palis are, were, or where they came from, the nation-state status of wherever they live, they’re an entity useful to the left if it is pretended that they are all of the above; a people wit a history, a nation, an ethnic continuity, and a legal nation-state. Any attempt to address these will meet with slippery evasions and changes of the meaning of one or another word. Or appeals to how badly they have been, alleged to have been, treated, as if that justifies their actions. True or false is irrelevant.

    I keep thinking that Darwin would have suggested we have a little brain bulb which says;, If you keep thinking this illogically, a canis dirus and a smilodon will be arguing over your corpse. Those without or who ignored it have been Purina for a hundred thousand years.
    We have a pleasure center, right? Why not a logic critic? More useful.

    They must know there’s something wrong with their argument, but they NEED to make it anyway. These days, anyway, it’s somebody else who gets eaten up.

    And since they know they’re lying, in a sense, there’s no sense in discussing things with them as if they’re simply misinformed.

    The question, for me, is…how did they get this way? What’s in it for them?

31. Palestine as an Arab state could have existed in 1948.

    But in order to accept Palestine as an Arab state in 1948 meant that the Arabs would have had to accept Israel as a Jewish state.

    This they could not do.
    (In fact Arabs in British Mandatory Palestine never even referred to themselves as “Palestinians” until the mid-1960s when it was decided that they do so for strategic reasons: to more effectively undermine and eventually destroy the State of Israel.)

    Flash forward to Oslo: the “two-state solution” (AKA“two states for two peoples”) was, and is, a diplomatic deception meant to chip away at Israel‘s defensive capabilities, both military and especially diplomatic, so as to eventually enable Israel’s destruction.

    The mistake that was made—and continues to be made—was/is to believe that the I-P conflict is a territorial one when in fact it is an existential one, wherein Israel—always having been considered illegitimate by those attempting its destruction—must be erased.

    IOW the mistake was/is to believe that territorial compromise is at all possible.

    Hence “Palestine”…which continues to “exist” as long as Israel continues to exist; “Palestine”, which continues to “exist” as a tool to destroy the Jewish State.

    And should that goal—Israel’s destruction, AKA “regional peace”, AKA “global peace”—be achieved, “Palestine”, no longer needed as a useful tool, will disappear from whence it came…as the land “between the river and the sea” is beset by vicious internecine violence and/or swallowed up by its stronger neighbors such that the resulting carnage will be entirely ignored or rationalized entirely out of existence.

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