Seems like the love affair between Trump and Musk is over
Really really over.
It seems to feature a huge (yuge?) disagreement about the budget bill, including but hardly limited to a detail about subsidies for EVs:
[Trump] repeatedly emphasized that Musk only began voicing concerns after the bill’s EV cuts, insinuating that Musk’s discontent was less about principle and more about profit. “He never had a problem until right after he left,” Trump said. “He knew everything about it… better than almost anybody.” …
Trump reminded the press that he had stood by Musk for years—politically and personally. “I’m very disappointed in Elon. I’ve helped Elon a lot,” Trump said. “He hasn’t said bad about me personally… but I’m sure that’ll be next.” …
“The easiest way to save money in our Budget, Billions and Billions of Dollars, is to terminate Elon’s Governmental Subsidies and Contracts,” Trump wrote. “I was always surprised that Biden didn’t do it!”
I consider that last statement to be an inflammatory escalation, which is Trump’s habit.
And then – as Trump predicted – came a personal attack on Trump from Musk:
Time to drop the really big bomb:@realDonaldTrump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public.
Have a nice day, DJT!
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 5, 2025
Childish of Musk. Of course Trump is in the “Epstein files.” We’ve known for ages that Trump had some dealings with Epstein years ago, as have so many people in public life. The so-called “Epstein files” are – as I wrote in this February post – merely a list of contacts. People have blown them up in their minds to be some sort of smoking gun, which they are not.
This whole thing is remarkably stupid and juvenile, perhaps even destructive. But we have two very powerful men at loggerheads, who don’t like to lose and are accustomed to winning, both of whom have quick tempers.
Those squirrels won’t chase themselves…. we can follow this and let the GOPe and the Democrats continue looting the taxpayer…
As for the Epstein files, of course DJT is in them. How could he not be, he knew Epstein for thirty years. His name is going to be in the files, especially if Biden’s FBI is in charge of them. Probably the name of anyone in DC you’ve ever heard of is in those files.
Two alpha males with oversized egos to go with their posturing status. What could possibly go wrong?
Don’t misunderstand me Bauxite, I’m happy with that alpha male with an oversized ego in the Oval Office.
Distressing.
==
Congress, as always, can accomplish nothing salutary.
The buzz on conservative Internet is that this is a head fake. The Democrats ran against Musk in Wisconsin to great effect. Bernie released a lot of carbon dioxide flying around the country fighting oligarchy. Leftists pivoted overnight from wanting a Tesla to burning them. Will be interesting to see what the Democrats do.
Chip roy who ostensibly was a musk ally floated this argument
We’ll see how this goes
The point of going after him in front of metz who is not one would should air dirty laundry
I am dismayed.
The problems I have had with Trump are on full display. I have subordinated them in my perception because I agree so wholeheartedly with his policies. Still, I continue to cringe as he gratuitously insults people–often people that he has to deal with whether he likes it or not.
I am somewhat surprised, and disappointed in Musk. He is obviously different, and if he has highly developed social skills he has managed to hide th em. On the other hand, I assumed that a person of his stature would be above this kind of public dog fight (as a cat lover, I refuse to use the more common description). I am really surprised if he is fighting because of the EV subsidies, which should never have come in to existence and are long past their usefulness.
They are playing into the opposition’s hands for sure. Trump just validated one of the Left’s complaints about Musk being inside the tent while he enjoys huge government contracts.
People continue to assert that Trump is playing a more sophisticated game than we understand. I am becoming skeptical.
oh oldflyer, please–do not be bothered with this kabuki theater.
None of this means a thing.
Bread and circuses.
For Musk the upside is that there will be a sudden surge in Tesla sales to all the lefties out there.
Elon Musk is on the spectrum, i.e. he has Asperger’s. He’s not crippled by it, but watching him speak, it’s not hard to detect that he is strange.
____________________________
To anyone who I’ve offended [with my Twitter posts], I just want to say I reinvented electric cars, and I’m sending people to Mars in a rocket ship. Did you think I was also going to be a chill, normal dude?
–“Elon Musk opens up on how Asperger’s has impacted his life”
https://www.axios.com/2022/04/15/elon-musk-aspergers-syndrome
____________________________
Musk is not normal and he is not good at social interaction.
We’ll see if theres fire or just smoke,
Dems have taken the bit, they are such easy marks
Yes, Elon has issues, and underestimated the practical realities of politics. But Trump is showing his worst side, as he has with other people he has fallen out with.
While I applaud most of Trump’s agenda, his narcissistic needs to be the only center of attention, everyone around him must suck up with over the top praise and groveling is disgusting at a personal level. In a constitutional republic, it is caustic, and reinforces the prejudices of the Never Trump crowd, to the detriment of his stated agenda and the interests of those avid supporters.
He is also weak and chaotic in abrupt trade and tariff changes, and too eager for claiming credit for historic deals that he is unable to complete. Xi, Putin, and the mullahs can see that he weakens his own hand by over-threatening and failing to follow through.
So expect Iran to get a bomb while Trump tries to place the blame on Bibi and Israel, while Russia and China deepen their ties and threaten our interests even more. They have his number. I am beyond disappointed at the pattern that is emerging, 4-D chess with no results, while the country is heading for a serious financial crisis like we have never seen.
I hope I’m wrong, but let’s start seeing some results other than owning the libs.
Not so much
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/06/05/musks-xai-chatbot-grok-pushes-back-on-musk-claim-trump-in-epstein-files-no-indication-of-wrongdoing/
There’s at least a chance that this was all a hoax. Musk has been taking a lot of (undeserved) heat for 4+ months and maybe this was a ruse to give him a respite from all the craziness. I’m not betting on it but with these two larger-than-life characters, who knows for sure. If that’s what it is, we’ll know in 2-3 months by my guess.
Very childish of Musk – and dangerous – to say something like this unless he actually has obtained incriminating documents and intends to disclose them.
If he had proof that Trump had done something truly wrong, he would just post it online right now.
I’m annoyed by the drama, generally. I don’t get why they couldn’t just reassure people that Musk was stepping out because he had finished his term as a special government employee. Even if he was glad to be done and wanted to get back to running his companies, the exit could have been done neatly and politely.
Elon and the DOGE structure he was instrumental in building has gone a long ways (some way?) towards gutting the conduit from federal spending to NGO’s to Democrat coffers. He had to have known that this would make him public enemy #1 to Democrat leaders and thus place him in the cross hairs of the Dem smear machine. He probably did want to gut that conduit, but nobody wants to be at the center of a media smear machine.
The cynic in me wants to believe that Elon & Trump planned something like this from the beginning. Trump gets a DOGE system, which not only saves money but may throttle the Dem election fraud & GOTV system. (Not saying that GOTV is the same as fraud. Two different things.) Not that Trump is running again, but he would like to see Vance or some GOP candidate take over from him.
And Elon gets to try to rehabilitate his image with the nonsense described in neo’s post. Almost everything that Dems do these days strike me as theatrics. Should we not expect some theatrics from Trump’s team? Possibly dishonest, but of the useful sort? I’m not a fan of such things at all, but this is the type of environment we live in.
Hat tip to Bob Wilson, chazzand, lee, and jmod46.
My favorite comment on this:
But most people who vote Republican didn’t lose hundreds of millions of dollars trying to help them, and then watch them do nothing with that help. I’m guessing that big price tag is the explanation for the speed at which Musk learned that the GOP is the broken reed staff that pierces the hands of any that lean on it, and any genuine anger he’s feeling.
Imagine if any of us gave up, say, 30% of our home equity or 401k, and had that happen. You think the donors who wasted their money on Kamala Harris are mad?
If Epstein put in his diary “Met with DJT, he wasn’t interested”, then Trump would indeed be in the Epstein files.
Yeah, I’m in the “Are you not entertained” camp until proven otherwise. This thing went from zero to eleven tout suite.
”I consider that last statement to be an inflammatory escalation, which is Trump’s habit…And then – as Trump predicted – came a personal attack on Trump from Musk”
So when Musk insults Trump it’s a personal attack, but when Trump insults Musk it’s just Trump being Trump?
Bob Wilson wrote: ”The buzz on conservative Internet is that this is a head fake.” Similar thoughts by Miguel, lee, chazzand, TommyJay, and ChasesEagles.
Wow! That is some Russian-level copium, but the 3-D chess argument always is. Then there’s Dathan blaming it all on the GOP, as always. I guess that’s better than blaming it all on Boeing, which seems to be the preferred narrative at Instapundit and other places at the moment.
The truth of the matter is that while this squabble was started by a petty bureaucrat nixing Musk’s choice to be nominated for the position of NASA administrator — a choice met with broad acclaim throughout NASA and the aerospace industry — the squabble highlights some serious defects with Trump’s agenda. Namely that Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill explodes the budget deficit and adds another $5 trillion to our national debt.
Many people believe we are at the tipping point of a debt spiral — and there’s evidence for that — that we can’t add another $5 trillion to the national debt and stay solvent, and that we can’t wait another four years to solve this problem.
But instead of solving this problem we should just blindly pass Trump’s bill because he thinks it’s beautiful. And plays chess. Or something. Ugh.
https://babylonbee.com/news/judge-determines-trump-will-get-the-nation-on-weekdays-while-musk-gets-every-other-weekend-and-holidays
I’ll take Occam’s Razor on this one.
The two most powerful men on the planet, arguably, both with serious egos and abrasive personal styles, come to a strong disagreement and it gets heated.
Am I missing something?
She loves me, she loves me not, she…
“Détente? Musk Hints At Path Forward On BBB, Will Not Decommission Dragon Spacecraft”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/im-very-disappointed-elon-trump-responds-musk-opposition-big-beautiful-bill
As F. Scott F. observed 100 years ago, the rich are diifferent from you and me. I do not indulge in idle speculation about their motives. I merely observe.
This better be some freaking big brain, “4D chess move” that I’m just too dumb or too simple or too poor to see. If it’s literally just this…middle school drama, I’m out. I’m moving off grid, becoming a sovereign citizen, and knitting my own undies from now on. I’ll comment here via smoke signal.
And yet, this is still all preferable to a Kamala presidency.
Musk doesn’t seem to want to accept the usual ways that budget bills are written. This bill does not have a lot of the recommended DOGE cuts. According to Speaker Mike Johnson, there are spending issues that can’t be touched because then the Senate will require more than a simple majority to pass the bill. I assume the Speaker knows what he’s talking about. It’s the way the sausage is made.
The explanation I have seen from Larry Kudlow, who follows this stuff pretty closely, is that the bill will accelerate the economy toa 3-4% growth rate, which will automatically bring in more revenues than forecast by the CBO. Also, much of the appropriated spending can be held up by the various agencies that get it. They don’t have to spend the money if they don’t need it, and DOGE has shown the way on that.
So, I’m assuming this is a serious misunderstanding between Musk and Trump, or maybe they are feinting a spat to give Musk more breathing room back in the private sector. Either scenario seems possible. Only time will tell. In the meantime, the MSM will do all they can to throw gasoline on the issue.
Related (as suspected a bit higher up)…
“I’M NOT SO SURE THE FEUD ISN’T ENTIRELY FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION”—
https://instapundit.com/724095/
“Very childish of Musk – and dangerous – to say something like this unless he actually has obtained incriminating documents and intends to disclose” — Shadow
But he has form on doing stuff like this. A few years ago he got into an on-line spat with a rescue diver, the ‘pedo guy’ incident.
“I’ll take Occam’s Razor on this one.
The two most powerful men on the planet, arguably, both with serious egos and abrasive personal styles, come to a strong disagreement and it gets heated.
Am I missing something?” — Huxley
I’m mostly with you. It’s _possible_ that this whole thing is a headfake. I woudn’t absolutely rule it out. But Occam’s Razor is sharp.
We should remember, Musk and MAGA have conflicting agendas. There is overlap where the two can work together, but it’s also true (for ex) Musk loves H1B visas, MAGA wants to zero out that program. Musk is used to being a CEO where he can plow through resistance, you simply _can’t_ do it that way in government. Even FDR at the height of his personal power still had to bargain with other power players, nobody today commands a ghost of that influence.
As for what Huxley is missing: just as with the Dems, right wingers get emotional investments in their own side. A lot of GOPers and right-wingers don’t _want_ this to be two huge egos crashing into each other and rocking the right-wing boat. But that’s the most likely interpretation.
Musk was a disliked lefty to most right-wingers until last year. RFK went from being a dangerous kook to a champion of American health to a lot of right-wingers when he joined up with Trump. It’s human nature, my noble upright tribe against those evil people in the Other Tribe.
(My own view of RFK is unchanged, a kook who is right about several important things, dangerously wrong about some other things, and currently doing more good than harm, but that could change if he started riding some of his kookier hobby horses.)
“The explanation I have seen from Larry Kudlow, who follows this stuff pretty closely, is that the bill will accelerate the economy toa 3-4% growth rate, which will automatically bring in more revenues than forecast by the CBO. Also, much of the appropriated spending can be held up by the various agencies that get it. They don’t have to spend the money if they don’t need it, and DOGE has shown the way on that.” — J. J.
Yeah, we’ll make up the spending now with more revenue later. Why does that sound familiar? Maybe because we’ve heard variations on it over and over for decades? It has yet to work out that way.
Sometimes an action in Washington has boosted revenue, such as the Reagan tax cuts. Then there was the dot.com boom, which was not a government result but did boost revenues hugely.
In each case, the political system reflexively boosted spending to use the new revenues. ALL the systemic incentives pointed toward ever greater spending.
So even if Kudlow is right, revenues above CBO projections won’t help unless there is sufficient political discipline to restrain spending at the same time. Otherwise, the new money just flows out the door after the old.
The truth is that it’s 100% politically _impossible_ to entirely solve the deficit problem right now. The necessary entitlement spending cuts would bring political Armageddon on whichever party imposed them. The best that can be done, for the nonce, is to reduce the rate of increase.
DOGE has done yeoman work in showing where huge amounts of money is being wasted. It’s been a cliche for years that we’ll balance the budget by cutting ‘waste fraud and abuse’, or WFA, and it’s a laugh line because there simply isn’t enough money there to do it, even with 100% elimination of WFA.
That said, Musk and Co. have demonstrated that there really was vastly more money being poured down a useless, or sometimes worse than useless, rat hole than even most right-wingers ever imagined. Even a partial reduction there is worthy and not insignificant.
mkent:
You are completely misinterpreting what I wrote. “I consider that last statement to be an inflammatory escalation, which is Trump’s habit” is no sort of excuse. Inflammatory escalations are indeed Trump’s habit. This was an unnecessary one as well. What I wrote is a criticism.
I value both sides im not going to take this story at face value i was concerned but not alarmed there are more severe things to be concerned about
Nothing that has been done that cant be taken back the more excitable cohorts will out
Yep, just what the dumbpublicans and Trump need now; a major blowup betwixt them and Musk.
Just terrific.
As if Trump didn’t have enough difficulties getting his agenda thru the democrat dominated federal bureaucracy, a democrat dominated federal judiciary, assorted republican “allies,” a democrat MSM beating the drums every second about Trump’s Nazi dictatorship, and of course the Dems themselves who would enthusiastically welcome a massive Great Depression II / Wiemar Republic debacle if they knew it would be the end of Trump and the dumbpublicans.
Oh yea, let’s not forget about all those prognostications emanating from the demonkrat controlled CBO; an agency that has been wrong as consistently as Paul Ehrlich, but not quite as long (51 years vs Ehrlich’s 55 years).
This whole budget mess demonstrates yet again that the majority of federal programs should be handed over to the states and the federal agencies should be limited to Treasury, Defense, State, Federal Reserve and perhaps just a few others.
All social welfare and Medicare / medicaid programs should be the domain of individual states, not the federal govt.
And Social Security needs to be run in the same manner as pension funds are managed as opposed to the Ponzi scheme it now is.
Actually the cbo has scored the tariffs as a positive exercise, social security has been looted more than that depository in the fourth die hard film
AesopFan at 10:44 p.m. beat me to it! I had planned to post that this was seriously depressing, even embarrassing, and just one of several large Trump failures related to his overheated ego that are happening right now . . . but the Babylon Bee headline that AesopFan posted made me laugh and feel a little better. The BB is a blessing to us all.
I’m actually surprised that Musk lasted this long.
Oh now im absolutely sold on the break up (sarc)
Now lets focus on more serious matters shall we like the fate of the republic stopping world war 3
The gist of it seems to be that Musk felt he was blindsided by all of this and reacted accordingly.
Musk: I’ve been busting my chops for the past five months trying to save the country from DPOTUS pathologies and non-stop sabotage…and now YOU try to pass THIS POS bill??? Without even telling me???
Trump: Without this bill we won’t be able to continue to save the country.
And there you have it (more or less).
Both of these high-powered alphas feel betrayed by his partner in their critical efforts to—there’s no other term for it—save the country within a very limited time frame.
Instapundit (along with others) has tried to step back and observe the larger picture.
I certainly hope they’re accurate…or prove to be.
“TRUMP VS. ELON:”
https://instapundit.com/724152/
“A USEFUL REMINDER:”
https://instapundit.com/724263/
So this morning Fox says the two will talk today and CNN says Trump refuses to talk to Musk. LOL.
Kurt Schlichter has a great, as usual, column up on the bro spat. For anyone growing up with normal preteen and adolescent boys, he points out some obvious facts. He also points out that Musk has an “engineer’s mindset” and I learned something about myself in the process. Not an engineer, but close enough. We of that mindset expect binary outcomes, but politics is poly with outcomes that depend more on the process than the result. It’s a cause for much anger in those of us with a “binary” mindset. I now see why I was so angry when dealing with the internal politics at my former college. Logic and facts be damned 90% of the time. Gave me some reflection on my past.
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2025/06/06/patriots-are-the-losers-in-the-trump-v-musk-fight-n2658289
“…let’s start seeing some results other than owning the libs.”
I like the crackdowns on illegal aliens and on boys in girls’ sports. Also DOGE, but as Musk wrote, if new spending is higher than DOGE savings, you’re not winning.
Trump’s been in office ~4.5 months.
I suspect the speculation that this is “theater” is wishful thinking on the part of the right. However since I don’t believe anything I read in the news I’m not going to speculate beyond that.
I’m inclined to FOAF’s position: everything we see on the news is filtered through the perception, bias, and agendas of the various news organs, right AND left. We don’t know what is really going on, and probably never will.
We can observe whatever results are made public and speculate.
Musk has positions and goals that are not always in line with Trump’s, and the president’s positions and goals are not always in line with mine, and mine are not always in line with yours (generic universal pronoun).
However, with that in mind, here is a post with something we need to remember about Musk’s position (and I say that will all possible respect and thanks for what he has done in liberating Twitter and managing DOGE).
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2025/06/06/7-reasons-not-to-trust-elon-musk-over-donald-trump/
The main points are followed by details, and even some of them aren’t necessarily as presented in the post.
Alex Berenson also addresses #7, from a POV of liking and admiring Musk, but very worried if he is indeed over using ketamine and other drugs.
This is from his Substack, which I get in an email feed, but requires a subscription otherwise.
@AesopFan: Musk and ketamine
Ketamine, first used as an animal tranquilizer, is a weirdly dangerous drug, which has taken down some bright people.
____________________________
Marcia Moore came to fame as a sixties yoga teacher. Jess Stearn wrote about her in “Yoga, Youth and Reincarnation” (1965). Later she married an anesthesiologist and began experimenting enthusiastically with ketamine. She wrote a book about her experiences, “Journeys into the Bright World” (1978). Then one winter she disappeared.
Later her remains were found in the woods near her home. It was suspected she had injected ketamine and died of hypothermia.
____________________________
Dr. John Lilly was a CalTech grad who got his medical degree. He was on the forefront of several fields — brain research, sensory deprivation, dolphin communication and LSD.
After he encountered ketamine it became his drug of choice for exploration. His usage became addictive and even his friendly suppliers didn’t want to sell him any more.
He kept taking more, combined with sensory deprivation, and got farther and farther out. At one point he made a panicked call to the White House to warn that silicon intelligence was going to take over the world. He ended up in a mental hospital for a while and he had to play nice to get out.
____________________________
At one point Marcia Moore visited Lilly to compare notes on ketamine. They both agreed on what they called the “Seduction of K.”
@ huxley – Scary. I’ve never heard of ketamine before this.
It would be a crying shame to lose Musk’s brilliance to something like that.
This could really be a serious rift.
https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-torches-tesla-dealership
Wouldn’t be surprised if Elon is eventually diagnosed as bipolar. The manic highs where you feel like every joke you say is hilarious, every idea you have is genius, and you can feel like you can fly to the moon, rewrite history and do brain surgery all at the same time. That certainly sounds like Elon.
Bipolars often deny their condition, and try to self medicate with alcohol or pills or cocaine or what have you. That sounds like him too.
The sad thing is that he would have a better chance of getting help if he was poor or middle class. He might have had actual family members or friends who are concerned about him and get him some help before he wrecks own life and theirs. Instead, he has a bunch of sycophants who keeping telling him he’s great so they can keep their paychecks coming.