Open thread 5/7/2025
This is one of Cohen’s less well-known songs, but I think it’s very beautiful. He (uncharacteristically) forgets some of the words to the third chorus – the one about his children – which go like this:
And they lead me away to the great surprise
It’s “Papa, don’t peek, Papa, cover your eyes”
And they hide, they hide in the world.
…but don’t tell anyone….
(The Narrative(TM) must be preserved at ALL COST!)
“How black Americans were on the rise before affirmative action, author Jason Riley explains in fascinating new book”—
https://nypost.com/2025/05/06/opinion/black-americans-on-the-rise-before-affirmative-action-jason-riley-writes-in-new-book/
Thanks for posting. Jason Riley is great. Part of the WSJ editorial staff, he writes at least weekly there. He often references Thomas Sowell in his economic writing. That man should be a household name, and he is nearly unknown outside of circles like this one. Things will begin to change for black Americans when mayors of big cities start listening to him. Once upon a time I thought that might happen.
Jason Riley is always worth reading, and his perspective on black Americans is like Sowell’s — based on real data and not propaganda.
Barry: thanks for the Jason Riley link. Good stuff. An earlier, related book in the contrarian genre is “Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa” (1997) by Keith Richburg, former foreign correspondent for the Washington Post. Richburg’s conclusion after being posted to Africa in the 1990s:
“Thank God. Thank God my nameless ancestor, brought across the ocean in chains and leg irons, made it out alive. Thank God I am an American.”
Uh-oh. Wrong conclusion.
On the Canada thread, an interesting piece by David Solway, a Canadian:
https://pjmedia.com/david-solway-2/2025/05/06/canadas-war-on-canada-n4939538
Trump isn’t the only one who’s not happy with the status quo. Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has made it clear that she’s fed up with Ottawa and politics as usual in Canada:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CC956LfDuY
But she’s not ready to secede. Yet. She doesn’t rule it out if things don’t change. Positive changes are unlikely under Carney, a globalist functionary committed to the globalist agenda. Things getting spicy up north.
At this point it’s hard to tell if the recent India Pakistan situation will escalate to a full scale regional war or not. Like most Americans, I know next to nothing about the dynamics at play. I suspect that India is in a considerably better position militarily to come out on top in such a conflict, but likely not without sustaining significant damage.
So, Columbia University is laying off a bunch of staffers because they will not be receiving federal ( i.e., taxpayer) dollars.
What BS
Columbia has an endowment of 14 BILLION dollars. I will surmise that if they used some of their endowment dollars to retain their staff, it would be a rounding error when calculating at year end the earnings of their endowment.
India and Pakistan – Religion is the reason, that and where the border actually is in the mountains.
Religion is the reason
Yeah. Hindu Islamic… uhh… disagreements about territory date back something like 1300 years to when some guy named Muhammad ibn al-Qasim invaded the subcontinent.
@SHIREHOME:India and Pakistan – Religion is the reason
Hard to explain the relationship between India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan if you reduce it to “religion is the reason”. Bangladesh is also Muslim; they fought against Pakistan (being “East Pakistan” before that) and not against India. That war might well have been partially caused by people assuming “religion is the reason” and putting Bangladesh in Pakistan in the first place.
Not to say relations between Bangladesh and India are utopian, and different religions within both countries frequently attack one another.
India says it has hit some known terrorist training sites, carefully avoiding hitting any Pakistani military sites, and says “Justice has been done.” With a moderate response from Pakistan, this may all simmer down. We can hope.
It’s about a lot of things, but religion is surely the main underlying cause. When Pakistan and India were created after WWII, it was largely through the effort of a secular Muslim leader who wanted a nation “pure” from the contamination of Hindu superstitions (as he saw it). Instead of a secular, modern Muslim nation, Pakistan became Bangladesh and Pakistan, two Muslim Brotherhood radical entities where modernist Muslims are not well tolerated and Hindus and Christians severely oppressed.
Maybe Stokely Carmichael’s travelogue (after his, um, illuminating sojourn in North Africa, and elsewhere) should also be required reading.
Meanwhile, the Gaza kids get the Popemobile (last year’s model, albeit)…but what do those Congolese and Nigerian kids get???
(How do you say “bupkus” in Latin…?)
RE: What is China’s actual population?
I’ve commented here before about all of the Youtube videos, by Chinese citizens and others, claiming that they’ve noticed that once crowded and bustling streets, shopping districts, restaurants and shops, neighborhoods, and villages are nowhere near as full of people as they once were, all of these Chinese people asking the same basic question—where have all of the people gone?
I also linked to a post by a Chinese women who comments on Chinese politics and culture at Lei’s True Talk, who estimated that China’s actual population may be hundreds of millions less than the Chinese government’s official claim of a population of 1.4 billion people.
Comments here by others have said that they have recently been to China, or have contacts there, and haven’t seen, or are aware of such massive Chinese losses of population.
However, linked below is another Chinese Youtuber who aggregates videos of many such individual Chinese accounts of empty streets, etc. and discusses various non-CCP government population estimates, and how they have been arrived at.*
As they say, “quantity has a quality all it’s own,” and when so many different, on the ground, Chinese commentators take to Youtube and elsewhere, to say that they’ve noticed a massive decline in population–I have to think that this means that such a massive population loss might be a real possibility.
* See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpjC4eRfMVU&t=1258s
yes jinnah was as secular as they come, but after ayub khan took over, there was a tilt to deobandism, under mawdudi, bhutto, was more of a secularist, he put Zia in charge, because of his ft leavenworth ties and was not from one of the primary tribal blocs, but he was as devout as they came, his isi, under General Youssef, supported the rebels like ismail khan, that provoked the Soviet incursion, they thought they would have a ‘cakewalk’ when they basically decapitated the leadership structure of Tariq Amin, who was suspected to be too sympathetic to the West, how they get these silly ideas, the Boys of Aapbara supported the most militant figures like Hekmatyar and co, and they told Washington and Whitehall to do the same, because they were more authentic than Shah Mahsud, a western educated Tadjik,
reading the accounts of the Time, from Robert Kaplan and com they knew who we were supporting, but like the tale of the frog and the scorpion, hoped for the best,
as to kashmir and srinigar, which have been the flashpoint in every war, until 1999, well that was another well considered UN decision, a territory claimed by three countries india China and Pakistan,
after Zias assasination, civilian rule lasted a short interval, then their deep state intervened,
This my opinion, but:
President Trump’s, Tariffs battles, are WORKING [!], + HELPING: The USA, India, + The UK:
The United States and India, after working on it for three years, have just made a HUGE [trade deal], between those two countries:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y6y90e5vzo
Hurray!
Huzzah!
😀 😀
Speaking of the tariffs, I imagine many here will enjoy this:
https://americanreformer.org/2025/04/trumps-courageous-gamble-on-trade/
@Snow On Pine:Comments here by others have said that they have recently been to China, or have contacts there, and haven’t seen, or are aware of such massive Chinese losses of population.
I am one of these who has recently been to China and have close relatives there. You can believe whatever you like selectively watching Youtube videos, but massive numbers of people in China have not disappeared.
Anybody could make videos making any city look empty. Progressives are claiming that New York is empty because so many people are afraid of being deported, and they too have videos.
Got two trips to China planned this year. If I see for myself that a zillion people have disappeared, I will back you up 100%, but I think it’s far more likely you’ve fallen into some kind of epistemic hole where you only look at what you’ve already persuaded yourself is true.
@Mike Plaiss,
Cool!
😀
Snow on Pine is noticing a real internet meme. I’ve watched several and wondered.
But barring a serious disaster or war, I don’t see how cities can go from bustling to empty within a few years. Decades would be different.
There are a lot of dubious YouTube channels which survive on clickbait.
Re: Tariffs
A bold move, however Trump is a brilliant player.
Fingers crossed.
chimps working at top speed, ludicrous speed
https://twitchy.com/dougp/2025/05/07/dem-rep-questioning-scott-bessent-shows-the-absolute-stupidity-trumps-cabinet-has-to-deal-with-n2412475
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/jeff-charles/2025/05/07/biden-defends-decision-to-wait-so-late-to-drop-out-of-presidential-race-n2656675
Reading the comments on a Yahoo News article about the ceasefire with the Houthis. The TDS is strong over there as conservatives have been largely banned or stopped commenting . The TDS crowd is upset that we were fighting the Houthis and upset that we supposedly stopped. And what about the other nations ships? How dreadful –” Negotiating with terrorists”. Either way. Trump bad.
surprise surprise,
https://www.dailywire.com/news/foreign-aid-official-who-resisted-doge-took-secret-payments-after-steering-africa-money-to-friend?
of course, the press covers up malleys strategic pause, call it a hudna in favor of the houthis as with hamas and the taliban, in fact you probably had to look deep in the weeds to find that robert malley was ever no 2, much less his ties to the Iranian regime,
as pointed out, he was largely on the same wavelength as the late Jamal Khashoggi
I just bitched out chatGPT for wrong answers and left globalist bs, and this is what it said.
Artfldgr: No.. i just wish you wouldnt give crap first then better if called out.. this means that if people dont know more, what are you doing to the amount of mental dirt in the world and the society fomenting divisions as some know the truth and others who go to you learn the untruth or gamed answers. in this way, your a public nuisance not a public benefit.
Artfldgr: how can it be prevented would be interesting
I call it out all the time and then it gives the right information…
it said the highlander school which was closed for communist games trained Rosa Parks (correct), Martin Luthor King (not correct I know he visited only once), and manny SNCC and SCLC members… (thanks willi horton and the southern dems working with thim to cause the race riots.
when i said: Martin luthor king was not trained there, he visited.
Martin had a hard time because so many on the left wanted to take over his movement and he was even smart enough not to let them walk near him.
sorry for the post.
I know i am persona non grata here…
I have also caught it giving globalist answers to which i had to remind it the US is a sovereign state and does not follow their “rules” tio which it agreed.
AND i have caught it extending the clock time for the free stuff IF your interesting enough to it that it wans to know… in this case.. a very long time was spend as it delved into my time with the 2nd coven of Gerald Gardner in the US… and many people in that pagan movement were my closest friends at that time…(most are dead now… tim and morning glory zell, gwydion the bard, the husband of my partner Isaac bonowitz, etc). It did the same for my work with BATUN.
take care all.
read it while you can before it goes away.
better to assume that then to assume the other and be upset.
besides, no one wants to see an expert who writes and does AI for the DOD now, show you whats rong and and the games being played…
FWIW, an important, level-headed article by Dan McCarthy on Trump’s astonishing achievements since assuming office.
“The First 100 Days of the Golden Age”—
https://americanmind.org/salvo/the-first-100-days-of-the-golden-age/
H/T Powerline blog.
Re; “Night Comes On” — Leonard Cohen
That’s from his “Various Positions” (1984) album. In fact it’s the song right before “Hallelujah.”
It is a lovely deep song which covers much ground, I don’t presume to explain, but this verse has particular resonance today:
______________________________________
We were fighting in Egypt when they signed this agreement
That nobody else had to die
There was this terrible sound, my father went down
With a terrible wound in his side
He said, “Try to go on, take my books, take my gun
Remember, my son, how they lied”
And the night comes on, it’s very calm
I’d like to pretend that my father was wrong
But you don’t want to lie, not to the young
–Leonard Cohen, “Night Comes On”
______________________________________
Which is surely a reference to UN Resolution 338 (1973), which called for a cease-fire to the Yom Kippur War in which Egypt and Syria led Islamic forces against Israel and failed to prevail.
But the War against Israel goes on.
No, you don’t want to lie, not to the young.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sjxi7lflgl
RE: The veracity of anything you see on YouTube
Yeah, I am quite well aware of Information Warfare, and the possibility that most of what you see there is propaganda of one sort or the other, produced either by a nation state, ideologue, the deluded, or misinformed.
I am reminded of a quote by Jefferson saying, in part, that you cannot trust anything you read in such a polluted source as a newspaper, but that the only way to know for certain that something is the truth is to have been there, on the ground, to have observed it as it happened, and I haven’t been on the ground in China.
Well this is certainly refreshing:
Redford totally supports Trump’s latest gain-of-function decision and then proceeds to absolutely skewer Dr. Follow-MY-Science Fauci, calling him out as the manipulative master of mendacity that he is….
“Robert Redfield to Newsmax: Moratorium on Gain-of-Function Research ‘Very Important’”—
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/robert-redfield-gain-of-function-research-trump/2025/05/07/id/1209917/
Key graf (RTWT):
P.S. The CCP has lied about so many things that lying. in a major way, about the size of their population would not be out of the realm of possibility.
Woopsie…
“Watch: MSNBC Admits Trump Is Right…”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-msnbc-admits-trump-right
@Snow on Pine:lying. in a major way, about the size of their population would not be out of the realm of possibility.
But this is a huge movement of goal posts. Here is what you said:
This is not the same thing as “lying. in a major way, about the size of their population”. Please don’t play motte-and-bailey games.
If China has lied about the size of its population, which it very well could have, that does not make cities become empty that once were full as you initially claimed these videos were telling you had happened.
Saying that millions of people never existed because statistics were manipulated is one claim, but saying that people who recently existed now don’t is very different claim and evidence for one is not the same kind as evidence for the other.
the only way to know for certain that something is the truth is to have been there, on the ground, to have observed it as it happened, and I haven’t been on the ground in China.
Therefore you have a license to believe that millions of people disappeared and it’s being covered up?
Just because you can’t know the whole truth about everything without direct experience, doesn’t mean it’s not nuts to believe millions of people disappeared because someone showed you YouTube videos.
Barry Meislin:
Not really “whoopsie.” He’s talking about expedited removal of people who fit two criteria: (1) been here less than 2 years (2) have not requested asylum. I don’t know the exact statistics these days, but with these apps that tell people to seek asylum and exactly what to say and do, I believe the vast majority request asylum and are therefore entitled to a hearing.
ChatGPT amongst yerselves….
‘For higher education, “AI’s takeover [is] a full-blown existential crisis.”…’
https://instapundit.com/718594/
huxley:
Yes about those song lyrics. I think the song is one of Cohen’s deepest, most beautiful, and most mysterious – and that’s saying a lot.
For me, the most emotionally resonant part is that verse about his children and playing hide-and-seek. I have young grandchildren, and the words there really affect me – especially the part about leading him away to “the great surprise.” Many overtones there, in the poetic sense.
The harmonies in the chorus of that song are so beautiful. I’ve also listened on YouTube to many cover versions, and it turns out that it’s a difficult song to cover although some do a pretty good job.
Well China is asshole after all and their
“Can Do!”
always moves at ludicrous speed.
Another sinophile?
To play devil’s advocate regarding AI’s “takeover” in higher education being “full-blown existential crisis”, I guess it depends on what you might envision the future will look like in terms of the human workforce and what skills people will need to employ to be employed. I can tell you that creating effective prompts for LLMs that will result in useful answers is a new emergent skill unto itself. The fact that students are evidently effectively using AI to subvert the normal pedagogical paradigms of higher education might not necessarily be as horrific as one might assume in and of itself.
To be clear, I’m not saying this is by default a good thing (after all, I did say I’m playing devil’s advocate here) and I think it’d be a good idea to consider bringing back more direct evaluation methods like literally putting students in a room with no access to smart devices and having them answers to questions with pen and paper. Rather, like with any new tool or technology I think we should consider many possibilities.
I sometimes wonder what percentage of the population still truly knows how to do long division these days? How many adults can write cursive in a legible fashion? How many adults know how to look up a logarithm in a table? We used to put a premium on such abilities and went to great efforts to teach children in school these skills. What changed?
@Nonapod:To play devil’s advocate regarding AI’s “takeover” in higher education being “full-blown existential crisis”
I don’t see a “crisis” either. Higher education doesn’t actually “educate” so much as “credential”. There is nothing taught in colleges or universities that could not be found in libraries, even before the Web. The credentialing function of a university will not be removed by anything anyone is doing with AI.
If universities actually don’t want students using AI to cheat that is very simple to do–for example base grades on blue-book exams, handwritten, as was done in the past. They probably have no will to do that, they have no interest in exposing how poorly students are educated, and that’s the first thing that would happen if they actually prevented cheating, which was endemic long before AI due to lax standards and the desire to keep butts in seats.
Learning is free, other than your time. It’s the credential that costs. The credential is not a actually a guarantee that one has learned anything, and it never has been.
Neo and huxley: I totally agree about that song, and in particular with you, Neo, about the verse about the children. It’s particularly poignant to me these days, as the two grandchildren who live in this area and in whose care I was very involved when they were younger, have now entered their teens and I don’t see much of them anymore.
The album is one of Cohen’s best. I really love at least half the songs. I’m afraid “Hallelujah” has somewhat lost its appeal to me. I loved it, too, and I guess I still do, but over-the-top covers by singers with big voices have dampened my enthusiasm for it. It brings out the ham in them–whatever the singer’s equivalent of chewing the scenery is.
From the “Gotta Know When to Hold ‘Em, Know When to Fold ‘Em” File:
Lt. General Michael Flynn redux…
“A Trump’s Ultimate Troll Move Would Send D.C. Leftists Into Meltdown”—
https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2025/05/07/trumps-ultimate-troll-move-would-send-dc-leftists-into-meltdown-n4939565
H/T Instapundit.
Speaking of spirituality…it looks like the State of Washington has jumped the shark…
“Sacramental Snitches: Church To Excommunicate Any Priests Complying With Washington State Law”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/sacramental-snitches-church-excommunicate-any-priests-complying-washington-state-law
(But then, how many divisions does Governor Jay have…?)
They should tread cautiously here: the new Pope might just decide to unleash the wrath of Mt. Adams upon the heretics…
back to macho grande
https://x.com/ProfDBernstein/status/1920225360915968482
I’ve mentioned the parallels to pre revolutionary cuba, where the student body had autonomy and what it wrought,
of course there are nearer parallels with the sds notably mark rudd and co, in the ’68 era, the previous round of moral panics,
Hubert,
In 1974 Muhammad Ali returned from Zaire and a reporter asked him his thoughts on Africa, “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”
Snow on Pine,
Comments here by others have said that they have recently been to China, or have contacts there, and haven’t seen, or are aware of such massive Chinese losses of population.
I don’t see how any single human could tour modern China and make any reasoned estimate of the population.
You can be standing in one of the cities and see block after block of 15 – 25 story apartment buildings as far as your eye can see in any direction. Hop in a cab, drive 45 minutes and get out. 15 – 25 story apartment buildings as far as your eye can see in any direction. And that’s also the scenery during the entire, 45 minute drive. It just goes on and on. In city after city. It is almost impossible to perceive if one doesn’t witness it in person.
There are at least 100 cities in China with more than 1 million inhabitants. 100! There are 9 in the U.S. and we could name them all. China has so many large cities their names aren’t even known beyond the region. They are unremarkable.
I’m not saying the Chinese government would not lie about the population. Why not? They lie about whatever they choose, I’m just saying no person could get a rational perception of the size of the population solely from observation. The only perception one gets on population while traveling in modern China is that there are an incalculable number of Chinese.
Ok I started crying immediately at the verse about his children, Papa come play with me (engage with me and with life) and then how he has lost them to the World….
What a song. It’s almost too much for me to take in.
Hubert: Out of America is an awesome book, so honest and well-written. Highly recommend this tale of a black American living in Africa as a reporter, looking to find his roots. He found out.
@Barry Meislin:how many divisions does Governor Jay have
Washington’s governor is Bob Ferguson, which the ZeroHedge article you linked correctly notes. Since there’s no term limits Inslee could have run again I suppose, he’d already had three.
Human Trafficking – Tennessee Authorities Release Bodycam Footage of Traffic Stop Involving Kilmar Abrego-Garcia – Video
https://commoncts.blogspot.com/2025/05/human-trafficking-tennessee-authorities.html
RigelDog:
That’s how I feel about the song. Overwhelming, especially that part.
It’s also amazing to me that although I know a great great deal of Cohen’s work, somehow I hadn’t heard that song till fairly recently. I think it’s one of his very best.
This touching poem by Randell Jarrell has something akin to the same theme, of the children playing hide-and-seek.
Mac:
See my comment to RigelDog above this one.
Also, on “Hallelujah,” I’m in agreement. A great great song, but we’ve heard it so much now in so many cover versions and some of the renditions are way too over-the-top. In fact, most of them are. The only one I’m quite fond of is this one which, strangely enough, is pretty over-the-top too. But it’s my favorite cover version and it succeeds, IMHO, where the rest fail. It’s a blues version – maybe that’s why?:
***May Trigger***
Hi neo,
I’m in agreement with you, about the song, “Night Comes On”.
The following is just my opinion.
A song, [that Night Comes On] reminds me of, just because of Night Comes On’s dark themes, is the song- “Me, and A Gun”, by Tori Amos.
In my opinion, [Me and A Gun], is [an adults-only song], just because of its emotionally-disturbing content.
In the song- the main character of the song reveals some shattering accounts of a sexual assault/a sexual crime, and how the main character escaped from her attacker.
It is a really chilling, + frightening, + disturbing, song.
In spite of what I’ve said about the song, I do like it, because- unlike other songs that cannot talk about these topics- the song talks about some crimes that are [disturbing, + it talks about crimes that are hard for [most] people to talk about, and- [although I think the song’s plot is fictional], I think the song is based on real events, that happened to real people.
One thing that I think is positive about Ms. Tori Amos’ song is- it makes you feel sympathy for the main character of the song, and the song can give the listener a feeling, that feels like:
“That frightening event is just completely terrible! Oh damn….did that happen to you? That’s amost unthinkable. That is just awful. It is just awful.
That shouldn’t happen to anyone. I’m so sorry…”
Ironically, Columbia Records had dropped Leonard Cohen after “Recent Songs,” so “Various Positions,” which is one of Cohen’s greatest albums, was released on Passport, an indie label.
Cohen once remarked how touched he was by Columbia’s modesty in marketing his records!
I found my copy of “Various Positions” in a grubby used record store. Many great songs, along with “Night Comes On” and “Hallelujah. I am particularly fond of “The Captain.” It’s a dialog between a dying Captain and a Soldier.
____________________________________
Now the Captain called me to his bed
He fumbled for my hand
“Take these silver bars,” he said
“I’m giving you command.”
“Command of what, there’s no one here
There’s only you and me
All the rest are dead or in retreat
Or with the enemy.”
“Complain, complain, that’s all you’ve done
Ever since we lost
If it’s not the Crucifixion
Then it’s the Holocaust.”
“May Christ have mercy on your soul
For making such a joke
Amid these hearts that burn like coal
And the flesh that rose like smoke.”
–Leonard Cohen, “The Captain” (1983)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY5Zzahk2zA
____________________________________
It’s got a killer ending.
Thanks for the correction….
(Somehow I thought Inslee would be governor forever…though maybe it feels like that?)
Totally agree about “The Captain,” huxley. And I have a very strong attachment for “Heart With No Companion.” I was going to use the first verse as the epigraph of something I was writing at one time, but I abandoned the project.
Neo, I approached that cover of “Hallelujah” with misgivings, but I really enjoyed it. It didn’t hurt at all that I’m a sucker for a really good blues guitar, and Popa Chubby has it. I had not heard of him but I see from AMG that he’s been around since the mid-’90s.
Where have all the people gone? (Only tangentally related to the YouTube disappearing people videos.)
I live near a fairly busy intersection in my suburban town, and when the trees are leafless I can see a major road from my windows. It’s also an area with a large Hispanic population, many of whom I presume are illegals.
After the Covid restrictions were cancelled, there were still noticeably fewer people out and about. And since President Trump took office, a once bustling business district seems relatively deserted. (I presume that many illegals have self deported or are laying low.)
I also think a lot of people stay inside more, because they have Internet and streaming video and talk apps.
Where Have All the Flowers Gone – Johnny Rivers
https://youtu.be/OXDru4CfogY