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Religiosity and support for israel — 35 Comments

  1. OK.
    Now let’s do, “Religiosity and Support for the US” amongst American citizens….

  2. A smart evangelical I correspond with offered that “Christian nationalism” is a term that has gained currency on the left as a way for them to slam white evangelicals while avoiding insult to black evangelicals. It’s dishonest, as leftoid discourse is nowadays. You see it most often used among Vichy protestant publicists like the clown who runs the ‘Interfaith Alliance’.

  3. Art Deco,

    That’s my impression also. “Christian Nationalism” is a term being used more frequently by those who want to discredit a “MAGA” attitude and scare groups who view themselves as marginalized into thinking the “Handmaid’s Tale” is imminent.

  4. If one looks at U.S. support for Jerusalem and Israel with no regard for Torah or Biblical prophesy the next question is, what is best for America’s interests? If one looks at the region since 1948 there is no question its existence has been a positive for the U.S.

    So even non-religious Americans should have a strong argument for supporting Israel.

  5. The only groups which should credibly be called “Christian nationalists” are those, few in number, who call for specifically Christian sectarian rule in the U.S. General recognition of the existence of God and the importance of Judeo-Christian ethics are not the same thing.

    The thing which has always struck me over leftist antagonism to Israel and to Jews is that Jews have been the epitome of an oppressed group for 1800 years or so, culminating in modern times in the horrors of the Nazi extermination camps. More “oppressed” would be hard to find. And prominent among the oppressors, for the past 1400 years, has been Islam. Yet leftists typically pretend that Muslims are an “oppressed” people. Islamic supremacy and Islamic nationalism are integral to the religion.

    The mystery is why people who practice either Judaism or Christianity are more likely to see these historical facts. Secularists should have no trouble, if they look honestly at history, in finding that Jews have been treated badly almost everywhere and want their own country as a result.

  6. I’ve regarded the Left as a Christian heresy since I was a teenager. I think the shared ideals are one of the main attractions for young people and not so far from the mainline culture. Where the differences become apparent is in politics and the will to power, and it is there that the ideals become corrupted. Science and history do not impart ideals, even if good practice requires them, and attempting to find them there is a sterile endeavor.

  7. I’m more comfortable with being called a Christian nationalist perhaps because I use a wider & “softer” lens through which I see it. Far from the “sectarian” accusation I’ve had raised often “Whose Christianity do you want the nation built on? Catholic? Baptist? Methodist? etc…” And anyone who says “Handmaid’s Tale” is worth being laughed at.

    In a nutshell…Something has to lay a foundation for public life. Who sets the boundaries for mores, values, taboos…Who can marry whom & when? What sort of public behaviour is acceptable? Can women vote, drive, raise children on their own or go out in public unsupervised? You get the picture.

    The Founders chose to make Biblical faith that foundational well from which they drew approaches & answers to those kinds of questions. I’d much rather accept that Christianity made Western Civilisation possible & we need to go back to the roots of that tree for how we might recast a vision for the future to steer away from one that sometimes looks pretty apocalyptic, if you don’t mind me using a Biblical image.

  8. Opus Dei wore out. Need a New Thing with which to scare to scare the chumps.

  9. So even non-religious Americans should have a strong argument for supporting Israel.

    Yes, except for Barry Meislin’s point that non-religious Americans are less likely to support America.

  10. “It’s dishonest, as leftoid discourse is nowadays.”

    “Leftoid discourse” has been dishonest since at least 1917 if not 1848.

  11. “So even non-religious Americans should have a strong argument for supporting Israel.” – Rufus T.

    Yes, anyone who has looked at the history of Israel with an open mind, should recognize that Isarel is not a stolen or unlawful nation.

    The Jews began moving back to the area in the early 1900s. They bought the land from the Bedouins who lived there and settled in. It was a British protectorate at the time. However, the Balfour Declaration (“The Balfour Declaration was a statement issued by the British government in 1917, expressing support for the establishment of a “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine.”) gave recognition to the Zionist movement and their cause.

    Then, after the discovery of the Holocaust horrors by the Nazis during WWII, it became quite clear that the Jews deserved to return to their homeland as described in the Bible. Of course, the Muslims were opposed to this, but the Ottoman Empire was finished and the small area that Israel would occupy was a mere traction of the Muslim dominated lands in the Middle East. Ad most of the land was owned by the Jews.

    The UN declared Israel an independent nation in 1948. They have been under attack militarily, with terror, and with propaganda ever since. They have fought back courageously and brilliantly. Against all odds, they are still an independent nation today.

    Although knowledge and belief in the Bible lends itself to support for Israel, IMO, it only takes an open-minded observation of the history to be supporter.

  12. Art Deco on March 29, 2025 at 2:20 pm said:

    A smart evangelical I correspond with offered that “Christian nationalism” is a term that has gained currency on the left as a way for them to slam white evangelicals while avoiding insult to black evangelicals. It’s dishonest, as leftoid discourse is nowadays. You see it most often used among Vichy protestant publicists like the clown who runs the ‘Interfaith Alliance’.
    ____________________________________________________

    Here, I’m in agreement with Art Deco and his correspondent. My brothers and I have an informal agreement to avoid topics with even a hint of politics. Despite that, one of them recently started yammering about “Christian nationalism,” and I had to ask him to respect our ban.

    By the way, I’m going to steal the phase “Vichy protestant.”

  13. “Christian nationalism” is being used as a slur against any Christians who are traditional or conservative in their beliefs.

  14. I must be an anomaly as an atheist who strongly supports Israel.

    I obviously don’t see my view as influenced by religion. I see Israelis as a non-evangelical people who just want to practice their faith in private and be left in peace. But Palestnians are generally one of most hateful and destructive people in the planet.

    In other words, my views are influenced by their (Israelis and Palestinians) actions not my religious beliefs.

  15. I’m Eastern Orthodox and, based on interactions in person and online, I think a significant part of Orthodoxy is antisemitic.

  16. Well , Orthodox ought to remember what happened to Constantinople. That wasn’t the Jews. First it was the Western Crusaders and then the Muslims.

    And how long was Greece under the thumb of Islam?????

    I like pointing out to people that about 75 years ago there were still vast numbers of Hindus in what is now mostly Muslim Pakistan. Where are they now?
    A little over a century ago there were still millions of Christians in what is now mostly Muslim Turkey. Where are they now?
    We could probably do that for some other places.
    And who is driving non Muslims out of parts of North Africa right now – village by village…?

  17. It is probably no accident that modern Americans are generally not brought up learning about the Ottoman Empire.
    The Ottomans were arguably Western Civilization’s greatest, most dangerous foe for generations and responsible for the litteral enslavement of so many Europeans.

  18. I think that hardly anyone heard of the phrase “Christian Nationalism” before Rob Reiner’s documentary “God & Country” in 2024. This is clearly a far-left attempt to create fear of something that is so barely existent that it doesn’t even seem to have a significant presence in the far-left news media.

  19. The Jews began moving back to the area in the early 1900s. They bought the land from the Bedouins who lived there and settled in. It was a British protectorate at the time. However, the Balfour Declaration (“The Balfour Declaration was a statement issued by the British government in 1917, expressing support for the establishment of a “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine.”) gave recognition to the Zionist movement and their cause.
    ==
    There was a Jewish population in the eastern Mediterranean. Specifically Zionist settlement began around 1897. The area was under Ottoman rule at the time. The Bedouin were transhumant, so the Jews would not have been purchasing land from therm. Local sedentary populations and absentee landlords were the previous owners.
    ==
    The Ottoman Empire entered WWi in 1915 and British and French forces conquered the Fertile Crescent and points adjacent in 1918. In early 1920, the British government assembled three Ottoman subprefectures, made some adjustments in its exterior boundaries, and called the territory the Mandate of Palestine.

  20. Thanks to Art D. for pointing out all the specifics of my generalized comment. My intent was a quick summary of the history, not to write a learned treatise. Fortunately, I can count on you to set things right.

  21. Constantinople was an outpost of Western Christendom against the onslaught of islamic invaders for seven hundred years. It fell and moslem armies advanced into Europe all the way to Vienna. Had not Sobieski and his Winged Hussars not been victorious, Europe might have been subsumed into the islamic ummah. Point being, the Christian West has been under assault by islam since islam’s earliest days and now, somewhat ironically, the Christian West finds itself allied with the contemporary Jewish national state in a mutually supportive defense pact. Israel is our contemporary Constantinople and its defense is crucial to the effort to restrain islam in its hegemonic tendencies. Thus, anyone currently living in Western civilization ought, rationally to support Israel, regardless of one’s individual feelings about Jews. It is more logical for a Western anti-Semite to support Israel than to belong to the abjectly stupid “gays for palestine” crowd. I personally find many reasons to support Israel, but then, I am an ardent supporter of Western Christendom, so that should come as no surprise.

  22. and no one saw that Reiner documentary,

    this was the dog whistle let loose after January 6th,

    there are so many ridiculous premises, proferred by foolish people, ut doesn’t appear to me that Reform school of Judaism, seems theologically sound, much like Mainline Christianity, that is weak in the World,

    J street that is still around, sigh, we know these people by their works, who does Miss Call work for now, I imagine Qatar,

    she broke with AIPAC (which I find has had a relatively mild status, in terms of standing with Israel

    she uses the word Nakbah which is the way they minimize the Holocaust, the term was around in 1948 but not wildly used

  23. I am a Christian and I guess a nationalist, i.e. I support America First. So I am a Christian Nationalist, without apology!
    PS – So were most of our Founding Fathers!

  24. Back in the 80s there really were fire-breathing, anti-semitic, white-supremacist, KKK, Christian Nationalists. Here’s one.

    –Glenn Miller, leader of the White Patriot Party
    https://www.gq.com/story/the-herald-of-the-far-right

    To the left of Miller you can see Steve Miller in dark glasses, his second-in-command and chaplain of the White Patriot Party. Steve was also my surfer buddy when we were in high school.

    Note the crosses on their berets. They were both in Special Forces.

    Anyway, the government busted up the WPP severely and new laws were written on the WPP’s account.

    My friend went to prison for ten years. Apparently he really was trying to buy a rocket launcher to use on the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Glenn Miller became a stoolie but also kept his hand in white supremacy. He served some time. Then became a trucker.

    In 2014 he decided to go out in a blaze of glory by shooting up a Jewish Community Center. He killed three Christians. He died in prison before his execution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Overland_Park_shootings

    That whole KKK world was sued and prosecuted into oblivion. Today’s Democrats wish us to believe there is some vital racist Christian Nationalist movement like the WPP bubbling away.

    But there isn’t.

  25. huxley,
    “To the left of Miller you can see Steve Miller in dark glasses…”
    Your link only shows Glen Miller.
    Two musical names. Were they brothers?
    PS – Archie Bunker was right about Meathead!

  26. The KKK was NOT white nationalist: they hated plenty of white people, especially Jews and Catholics. “White Protestant Nationalist” would be more accurate, except it is still probably too inclusive.

  27. Capt. Obvious here again, but the (probably overwhelming) majority of Christians reject racism and antisemitism.

  28. “To the left of Miller you can see Steve Miller in dark glasses…”
    Your link only shows Glen Miller.

    Dax:

    To the left of Glenn Miller in the photograph is a guy with dark glasses. That’s Steve.

    https://www.gq.com/story/the-herald-of-the-far-right

    Yes, it is weird that they both had musical names. It made it hard to google them. I went deep into neo-nazi sites like “Stormfront” to put together a picture of my old surfer buddy.

    From what I could tell, Steve was something of a legend in those circles in those days. On condition of getting out of prison Steve had to forego all the bad associations from his past. By report he now lives quietly on a farm in Georgia.

  29. interesting one of glenn miller’s bandmates for a time, was miles copeland referrred above, who would become famous or infamous as the story goes in the CIA’s middle east section, playing court to the coup in Syria, in 1949, that upset the apple cart, as well as aiding Nasser and all the downstream events that sprung from there, including the alliance and subsequent banning of the Brotherhood, which would lead to Al Queda in a round about way,

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