Good Grief! While I approve, for the most part, President Trumps position picks, this choice for US Ambassador is going to make my case very difficult here in Greece to defend President Trump. I do hope he reconsiders.
I haven’t watched this yet but this is Candace Owens interviewing a veteran who was on the USS Liberty when it was attacked by Israel during the Six Day War in 1967. Some say it was an accident but apparently the interview of this elderly gentleman does not make either Israel or the US government and LBJ look very good. What do y’all think?
Probably it was a deliberate attack. Probably executed because Liberty was conducting sigint espionage, sharing information with the Egyptians on IDF military operations and intentions.
The reason why is whole ‘nother story. Broadly speaking, though, it was all about the fact that Israel was fighting an existential war for its survival — as always. The fact that the IDF smashed the Arab armies in just six days does not change the existential peril it was facing.
I say this and I’m extremely pro-Israel, every step of the way.
Ditto Kate. After listening to Owens a few times on Tucker I muted the sound when she would appear. I sensed an insincerity coupled with perhaps hidden admiration for Malcolm X. Can’t stand her.
Well, as IO49 pointed out, the ship was probably attacked intentionally. It was apparently doing something which threatened the IDF operations in the middle of a war.
This was decades ago. We have been allies all this time. It’s Owens’ motivation in bringing this up now, on top of numerous other blatantly anti-Jewish posts, which is questionable.
I noted the other day that CNN was sourcing some of its narrative detail on the United Healthcare murder to a deleted, anonymous user account on Reddit that they couldn’t say actually was Luigi Mangione, but could have been him.
And I’m wondering, how did they get that information, and in just five days? Did somebody at Reddit or in the government package it up for them? And why would they know to do that? If so, somebody had for some reason been watching him for some time.
Otherwise, it would mean CNN has bought access to reddit’s data and can search reddit as they like, for anything anyone might have posted.
As for USS Liberty, this is not Candace Owens’ idea and it is not discredited just because you’re hearing about it from her.
In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy’s inquiry to “conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”
Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy’s original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he’s a military man, and “when orders come … I follow them.”
He said he felt compelled to “share the truth” following the publication of a recent book, “The Liberty Incident,” which concluded the attack was unintentional.
Believe it, or don’t believe it, but this is not something Candace Owens made up. She would have been 14 when that article came out and I doubt was paying attention.
The French attacked our ships deliberately in WWII. We were, of course, violating their neutrality at the time. War is more complicated than we like to think it is. Doesn’t mean we have to be still mad at the French, and if Israel did attack USS Liberty on purpose, we have to remember that nations have interests, not friendships, and that a lot of things happen in war that don’t look good later, even in wars fought by “good guys”.
as I recall LBJ’s administration was strongly pro Arab, so maybe they had been tasked to inform the kingdom of jordan and egypt, about Israel’s movements,
Candace Owens has lost her marbles.
Some (much?) of what she says / claims is really crazy.
There is no way that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was an accident; it was intentional and purposeful. Just a routine fly over by Israeli aircraft (and there were several) would have immediately ID’d the ship as a US Naval Vessel.
Why Israel attacked the USS Liberty baffles me (when you think about it, it was an act of war) and I am also puzzled why the US govt. bent over backwards to label it an unfortunate “mistake.”
When Trump takes office he should release all info on the Liberty disaster, as well as the JFK shooting, the Epstein files and all FBI info as to how many of their agents participated in the Jan 6 events at the Capitol.
Of course, it’s a slam dunk that FBI personnel are presently scrubbing clean their computer files and destroying any paper trails that would implicate them in any sort of nefarious / illegal activities.
To return to the original subject, the take doesn’t seem long. I suspect that this is because we are staring at Ingrid Bergman one of the most beautiful and talented actresses of the golden cinema era and she keeps it interesting (as the video creator suggests), Also noted in the video is that she did not blink in the whole 25 seconds. This while being lit with lights that make you want to squint as even in the early 40’s you’re still using very slow film. And as the video creator notes the long take (and Ms Bergman’s acting within it) is critical to the setup of Rick’s (Humphrey Bogart’s ) reaction. Casablanca is full of top talent and excellent direction and writing. There is good reason for it to be Number 2 in the AFI 100 years 100 movies list I prefer it (by far) to AFI’s #1 Citizen Kane but that is my own taste.
I am also puzzled why the US govt. bent over backwards to label it an unfortunate “mistake.”
Labeling it for what it was would have opened a real can of worms. The U.S. would have had to explain what Liberty was doing to prompt the Israeli attack. And if the U.S. lied about it, e.g. saying that Liberty was merely monitoring the situation, the Israelis would have released information about Liberty’s true activities. The Israelis might even have gone so far as to accuse the U.S. of committing an act of war: assisting their enemies by feeding them with vital information while operating in a war zone while the conflict was raging.
Imagine the political firestorm that would have ensued.
FWIW, a couple of years ago I visited the IDF Navy museum in Haifa. There was a memorial there to the U.S. soldiers killed in the attack on the USS Liberty.
Agreed, Neo. If I had been asked last week what was the longest take in Casablanca, I probably wouldn’t have been able to say—I certainly wouldn’t have guessed this moment. Unlike Scorsese’s night club entrance and the opening to Altman’s The Player, this take doesn’t shout out to the viewer, “look at this long take I’m making!” It’s just part of the narrative, neither shorter nor longer than it should be.
(This was in my YT feed since Saturday and I finally watched it yesterday. I wonder how it got in my feed?)
but context, the scenes in those two films, as well as say touch of evil, are about action, you drop right into the story, you see everyone speaking moving, Ilsa’s a deeply introspective look at what she remembers the last time the song played in that Paris cafe, how she felt about Rick, then, but that snippet conveys everything about her,
Niketas Choniates, I didn’t say, and I don’t think others here said, that Candace Owens made it up. The question with respect to Owens is why she is posting about something which happened 57 years ago.
@Kate:The question with respect to Owens is why she is posting about something which happened 57 years ago.
Lots of people post about things that happened longer ago than that, all the time, both pro- and anti-Israel. The expulsion of Jews from the Middle East in general happened about as long ago as that (1947 – 1970-something) and is surely still relevant to understanding Israel today, is it not?
Her motives don’t affect the truth or falsity of whether USS Liberty was deliberately attacked or not–I personally don’t have an opinion on this–and that’s all I am saying. I get that you think she is “overboard on Jew-hatred” and so can’t possibly have a legitimate reason for bringing it up.
Regarding the video – the shot doesn’t seem to be that long at all. As opposed, I think, to a much different scene, different situation – the closing closeup shot of Bob Hoskins in The Long Good Friday. That shot seems to go on far longer than it does, befitting the situation.
If you watch closely, aren’t tears slowly developing in Ingrid Bergman’s eyes?
Pretty interesting video, though I agree that the shot doesn’t seem that long. Possibly because it works so well. And the narrator’s point about the music and lyrics carrying the more explicit part of the message is good.
Brian DePalma has discussed how important it is to give big breaks in the dialog, in order to provide space for the music composer to do his or her job.
I have been meaning to re-watch The Graduate, and got part way into it a couple months ago, but didn’t finish. It’s still on my list. But from memory a long time ago, I can remember that closing shot of Hoffman and Ross in the back of the bus. That WAS a long long shot. And the narrator is correct about it, IMHO.
Re: Casablanca scene
It is about 25 seconds long and it does go by quickly, carried by Sam’s iconic singing of the iconic song, “As Time Goes By.”
It’s at the 32:51 mark in “Casablanca” for those as obsessive as I am.
I’m reminded of “Yellow Submarine” when the Beatles are passing through the Sea of Time and sing “When I’m 64” while an animated visual display counts up the seconds to a minute and four seconds:
________________________________
sixty-four years is 33,661440 minutes and one minute is a long time ……….
let us dem0nstrate
________________________________
It takes forever to reach 64 seconds.
Of course, most of the audience was wacked one way or another. I know I was. 🙂
That’s at 29:45 in “Yellow Submarine.”
–Critical Stoner
As it happens, I’m now reading Tom Wolfe’s “The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test” in French.
Given Wolfe’s complex, experimental prose, his vast writing vocabulary, and the unusual culture, i.e. the hippies, Wolfe describes, this is the hardest book in French I’ve read.
Hoo boy! The translator does not understand that era. I’m not even sure if he understands American English all that well.
I know perfect translation is an impossible task, but some are better than others. I’m only 18 pages in and the translator makes a bone-headed mistake every other page.
Example: Ron Bevirt was an ex-Army guy, who fell in with Kesey’s group, the Merry Pranksters, described in “Electric Kool-Aid.” He acquired the nickname, Hassler, because he was the guy who got the audio/visual equipment to work for the Acid Tests. Hassler was an affectionate nickname.
Yet the French translator called him L’Emmerdeur which means “troublemaker” or “pain in the ass.”
Clueless. I could go on.
–Critical Stoner
@huxley:L’Emmerdeur
Is that literally something like “the beshitter”? A guy who gets crap all over everything? But used in the same sense that we would use “troublemaker” or “pain in the ass”?
One of the characters in the Baroque Cycle acquires that sobriquet in France, which is where I first encountered it.
Is that literally something like “the beshitter”?
Niketas Choniates:
It’s hard to miss the merde in L’Emmerdeur. That would be my literal translation.
Or someone who figuratively puts others in the merde.
Ingrid Bergman was masterly at the long take. Her response to Albert Finney’s (as Poirot) questioning in ‘Murder on the Orient Express’ is considered film acting perfection. IIRC, she got a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for the role.
Is it time for a whole thread on ‘Casablanca’?
Crystal Mangum, who accused three Duke University lacrosse players of rape in 2006, has now admitted on a podcast that she fabricated the entire story. This admission comes over 18 years after the initial accusations, which led to a significant legal and social controversy. Mangum, who is currently serving a life sentence for a murder conviction, stated her false testimony was wrong and hopes for forgiveness from the accused.
This story is a summary of posts on X and may evolve over time. Grok can make mistakes, verify its outputs.
Doing time for second-degree murder since Nov. 2013 – sentenced to ‘serve a minimum of 14 years and two months and a maximum of 17 years and nine months in prison’ she is probably working for the minimum for a parole…
Israel believes Iran is more desperate than ever to build a nuclear bomb
The IDF is readying itself for the strikes after it wiped out 85 per cent of the remnants of Assad’s military – clearing the way for its aircraft and missiles.
Netanyahu’s government has now confirmed it will capitalise on the rare opportunity to strike Iran after the Islamic nation’s allies have been dropping like flies.
Molly Brown, I like that idea.
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Good Grief! While I approve, for the most part, President Trumps position picks, this choice for US Ambassador is going to make my case very difficult here in Greece to defend President Trump. I do hope he reconsiders.
https://www.ekathimerini.com/politics/foreign-policy/1256088/for-incoming-us-ambassador-to-athens-crisis-hit-greeks-were-freeloaders/
I haven’t watched this yet but this is Candace Owens interviewing a veteran who was on the USS Liberty when it was attacked by Israel during the Six Day War in 1967. Some say it was an accident but apparently the interview of this elderly gentleman does not make either Israel or the US government and LBJ look very good. What do y’all think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD5gtM1A990
I think Candace Owens is overboard on Jew-hatred.
Marisa:
Probably it was a deliberate attack. Probably executed because Liberty was conducting sigint espionage, sharing information with the Egyptians on IDF military operations and intentions.
The reason why is whole ‘nother story. Broadly speaking, though, it was all about the fact that Israel was fighting an existential war for its survival — as always. The fact that the IDF smashed the Arab armies in just six days does not change the existential peril it was facing.
I say this and I’m extremely pro-Israel, every step of the way.
An important read for a whole slough of reasons:
“Dec. 11: Can Trump Wrangle the Obama Machine?”—
https://thedailyscroll.substack.com/p/dec-11-can-trump-wrangle-the-obama
H/T Powerline blog.
Ditto Kate. After listening to Owens a few times on Tucker I muted the sound when she would appear. I sensed an insincerity coupled with perhaps hidden admiration for Malcolm X. Can’t stand her.
Well, as IO49 pointed out, the ship was probably attacked intentionally. It was apparently doing something which threatened the IDF operations in the middle of a war.
This was decades ago. We have been allies all this time. It’s Owens’ motivation in bringing this up now, on top of numerous other blatantly anti-Jewish posts, which is questionable.
I noted the other day that CNN was sourcing some of its narrative detail on the United Healthcare murder to a deleted, anonymous user account on Reddit that they couldn’t say actually was Luigi Mangione, but could have been him.
And I’m wondering, how did they get that information, and in just five days? Did somebody at Reddit or in the government package it up for them? And why would they know to do that? If so, somebody had for some reason been watching him for some time.
Otherwise, it would mean CNN has bought access to reddit’s data and can search reddit as they like, for anything anyone might have posted.
As for USS Liberty, this is not Candace Owens’ idea and it is not discredited just because you’re hearing about it from her.
From an article in Fox News in 2003:
Believe it, or don’t believe it, but this is not something Candace Owens made up. She would have been 14 when that article came out and I doubt was paying attention.
The French attacked our ships deliberately in WWII. We were, of course, violating their neutrality at the time. War is more complicated than we like to think it is. Doesn’t mean we have to be still mad at the French, and if Israel did attack USS Liberty on purpose, we have to remember that nations have interests, not friendships, and that a lot of things happen in war that don’t look good later, even in wars fought by “good guys”.
as I recall LBJ’s administration was strongly pro Arab, so maybe they had been tasked to inform the kingdom of jordan and egypt, about Israel’s movements,
Candace Owens has lost her marbles.
Some (much?) of what she says / claims is really crazy.
There is no way that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was an accident; it was intentional and purposeful. Just a routine fly over by Israeli aircraft (and there were several) would have immediately ID’d the ship as a US Naval Vessel.
Why Israel attacked the USS Liberty baffles me (when you think about it, it was an act of war) and I am also puzzled why the US govt. bent over backwards to label it an unfortunate “mistake.”
When Trump takes office he should release all info on the Liberty disaster, as well as the JFK shooting, the Epstein files and all FBI info as to how many of their agents participated in the Jan 6 events at the Capitol.
Of course, it’s a slam dunk that FBI personnel are presently scrubbing clean their computer files and destroying any paper trails that would implicate them in any sort of nefarious / illegal activities.
To return to the original subject, the take doesn’t seem long. I suspect that this is because we are staring at Ingrid Bergman one of the most beautiful and talented actresses of the golden cinema era and she keeps it interesting (as the video creator suggests), Also noted in the video is that she did not blink in the whole 25 seconds. This while being lit with lights that make you want to squint as even in the early 40’s you’re still using very slow film. And as the video creator notes the long take (and Ms Bergman’s acting within it) is critical to the setup of Rick’s (Humphrey Bogart’s ) reaction. Casablanca is full of top talent and excellent direction and writing. There is good reason for it to be Number 2 in the AFI 100 years 100 movies list I prefer it (by far) to AFI’s #1 Citizen Kane but that is my own taste.
I am also puzzled why the US govt. bent over backwards to label it an unfortunate “mistake.”
Labeling it for what it was would have opened a real can of worms. The U.S. would have had to explain what Liberty was doing to prompt the Israeli attack. And if the U.S. lied about it, e.g. saying that Liberty was merely monitoring the situation, the Israelis would have released information about Liberty’s true activities. The Israelis might even have gone so far as to accuse the U.S. of committing an act of war: assisting their enemies by feeding them with vital information while operating in a war zone while the conflict was raging.
Imagine the political firestorm that would have ensued.
FWIW, a couple of years ago I visited the IDF Navy museum in Haifa. There was a memorial there to the U.S. soldiers killed in the attack on the USS Liberty.
Agreed, Neo. If I had been asked last week what was the longest take in Casablanca, I probably wouldn’t have been able to say—I certainly wouldn’t have guessed this moment. Unlike Scorsese’s night club entrance and the opening to Altman’s The Player, this take doesn’t shout out to the viewer, “look at this long take I’m making!” It’s just part of the narrative, neither shorter nor longer than it should be.
(This was in my YT feed since Saturday and I finally watched it yesterday. I wonder how it got in my feed?)
but context, the scenes in those two films, as well as say touch of evil, are about action, you drop right into the story, you see everyone speaking moving, Ilsa’s a deeply introspective look at what she remembers the last time the song played in that Paris cafe, how she felt about Rick, then, but that snippet conveys everything about her,
Niketas Choniates, I didn’t say, and I don’t think others here said, that Candace Owens made it up. The question with respect to Owens is why she is posting about something which happened 57 years ago.
@Kate:The question with respect to Owens is why she is posting about something which happened 57 years ago.
Lots of people post about things that happened longer ago than that, all the time, both pro- and anti-Israel. The expulsion of Jews from the Middle East in general happened about as long ago as that (1947 – 1970-something) and is surely still relevant to understanding Israel today, is it not?
Her motives don’t affect the truth or falsity of whether USS Liberty was deliberately attacked or not–I personally don’t have an opinion on this–and that’s all I am saying. I get that you think she is “overboard on Jew-hatred” and so can’t possibly have a legitimate reason for bringing it up.
Regarding the video – the shot doesn’t seem to be that long at all. As opposed, I think, to a much different scene, different situation – the closing closeup shot of Bob Hoskins in The Long Good Friday. That shot seems to go on far longer than it does, befitting the situation.
If you watch closely, aren’t tears slowly developing in Ingrid Bergman’s eyes?
Pretty interesting video, though I agree that the shot doesn’t seem that long. Possibly because it works so well. And the narrator’s point about the music and lyrics carrying the more explicit part of the message is good.
Brian DePalma has discussed how important it is to give big breaks in the dialog, in order to provide space for the music composer to do his or her job.
I have been meaning to re-watch The Graduate, and got part way into it a couple months ago, but didn’t finish. It’s still on my list. But from memory a long time ago, I can remember that closing shot of Hoffman and Ross in the back of the bus. That WAS a long long shot. And the narrator is correct about it, IMHO.
Re: Casablanca scene
It is about 25 seconds long and it does go by quickly, carried by Sam’s iconic singing of the iconic song, “As Time Goes By.”
It’s at the 32:51 mark in “Casablanca” for those as obsessive as I am.
I’m reminded of “Yellow Submarine” when the Beatles are passing through the Sea of Time and sing “When I’m 64” while an animated visual display counts up the seconds to a minute and four seconds:
________________________________
sixty-four years is 33,661440 minutes and one minute is a long time ……….
let us dem0nstrate
________________________________
It takes forever to reach 64 seconds.
Of course, most of the audience was wacked one way or another. I know I was. 🙂
That’s at 29:45 in “Yellow Submarine.”
–Critical Stoner
As it happens, I’m now reading Tom Wolfe’s “The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test” in French.
Given Wolfe’s complex, experimental prose, his vast writing vocabulary, and the unusual culture, i.e. the hippies, Wolfe describes, this is the hardest book in French I’ve read.
Hoo boy! The translator does not understand that era. I’m not even sure if he understands American English all that well.
I know perfect translation is an impossible task, but some are better than others. I’m only 18 pages in and the translator makes a bone-headed mistake every other page.
Example: Ron Bevirt was an ex-Army guy, who fell in with Kesey’s group, the Merry Pranksters, described in “Electric Kool-Aid.” He acquired the nickname, Hassler, because he was the guy who got the audio/visual equipment to work for the Acid Tests. Hassler was an affectionate nickname.
Yet the French translator called him L’Emmerdeur which means “troublemaker” or “pain in the ass.”
Clueless. I could go on.
–Critical Stoner
@huxley:L’Emmerdeur
Is that literally something like “the beshitter”? A guy who gets crap all over everything? But used in the same sense that we would use “troublemaker” or “pain in the ass”?
One of the characters in the Baroque Cycle acquires that sobriquet in France, which is where I first encountered it.
Is that literally something like “the beshitter”?
Niketas Choniates:
It’s hard to miss the merde in L’Emmerdeur. That would be my literal translation.
Or someone who figuratively puts others in the merde.
Ingrid Bergman was masterly at the long take. Her response to Albert Finney’s (as Poirot) questioning in ‘Murder on the Orient Express’ is considered film acting perfection. IIRC, she got a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for the role.
Is it time for a whole thread on ‘Casablanca’?
A great discussion of this from a well-known cinema thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ_Zwl6_nKY
“I am also puzzled why the US govt. bent over backwards to label it an unfortunate “mistake.””
Because doing otherwise would not only have opened a political can of worms but an intelligence can of worms as well.
Friday the 13th starts out as really bad day for Progressives…
• Musk Declares Recycling ‘Pointless’, Ignites Debate
The next one is especially for all the #MeToo’ers out there…
• Crystal Mangum Admits 2006 Duke Lacrosse Rape Claim Was Fabricated
Doing time for second-degree murder since Nov. 2013 – sentenced to ‘serve a minimum of 14 years and two months and a maximum of 17 years and nine months in prison’ she is probably working for the minimum for a parole…
Israel preparing blitz on ‘isolated & weak’ Iran’s nuke bases
Molly Brown, I like that idea.