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JFK was assassinated sixty-one years ago today — 53 Comments

  1. Mark Fuhrman (yes, that Mark Fuhrman) wrote a book on the JFK assassination, and he reached the conclusion that Oswald acted alone. This was after he’d written Murder in Brentwood and also Murder in Greenwich.

  2. Neo, I disagree. I too have studied the JFK assassination, and there is NO WAY that Oswald (or anyone else) could have used that particular alleged bolt-action rifle (with a rough action) to have hit a moving target with such speed and accuracy at that distance. It is just not probable. And what with Oswald getting so conveniently killed shortly after, it is definitely a conspiracy.

    My personal theory is that some folks wanted to escalate things in Vietnam even in 1963 (gotta test out new weapon systems, eh?), and that JFK didn’t want to escalate, so he was conveniently shot by *someone*. Then when LBJ took over, LBJ went along with escalating Vietnam because he did not want to also get assassinated.

  3. Rusty:

    You may think you have studied it, but I would wager you haven’t read the book, just like the other commenters I describe in my post. You have read incomplete histories that suggest theories that contradict the facts.

    Do yourself a favor. Read the Bugliosi book.

  4. Guess human nature hasn’t changed much since then. Was not even into politics when JFK was elected, but do remember claims that he and the Democrats had “cheated” even back then—even when I could care less about politics, so it must’ve been an outcry since it has stuck in my memory.

    People still trying to kill American presidents.

    Lived in SW Miami during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    Remember JFK sending my dad to California to learn some Vietnamese – and then over to Vietnam.

    Remember Thich Quang Duc setting himself on fire and burning to death. Remember writing about it for some kind of class assignment—maybe something like ‘write about recent news and what you would do about it in so many words’: OK…wrote something like this:

    Recent news: Lots of news about Thich Quang Duc’s self-immolation. What would I do about it: Give those Vietnamese monks free gas and matches.

    I thought it was a great originality report, but teacher gave me an F and told me I could do better than that.

    I thought JFK was OK…and also remember his assassination.

  5. I was home from school that day and saw it on TV (I don’t think I saw it happen live). Five years later, I saw the video of RFK being shot. Yes, the Trump shooting brought these memories to vivid life.

  6. I was 6 years old when JFK was assassinated, too young to have any real memories about the event. I do vaguely remember watching the funeral. I’m from a Boston Irish Catholic family, on both sides, and so there was a lot of attention paid to this, and the RFK assassination.

    That Oswald acted alone seems clear to me. I’ve read quite a bit, though not as much as you Neo, about the event. The fact that no one has come forward with direct, first hand knowledge and evidence of a plot involving the US government and/or foreign actors is relevant and important. Doesn’t prove there wasn’t some sort of plot but certainly argues against there being one.

    The attempt on Trump opened a pit in my stomach, just as the attempt on Reagan did. Interesting that your post is the first I’ve seen mentioning the anniversary.

  7. Oswald shot JFK. Al-Qaeda flew the planes into the buildings. Thomas Crooks shot at Trump. Man I’m tired of conspiracy weirdos.

  8. Our government is so skeevy at this point, they bring this on themselves. Why is anything to with this still classified? There must be something deeply embarrassing to dot gov.

  9. Couple of notes: Ex Infantry, fired numerous bolties as well as semi and full auto.
    Any grad of Basic could have made that shot–I visited the Depository.
    Oswald didn’t fire THREE rounds in that period of time. He fired two. The clock starts at the first.

    So far, so good. One lone nut case with more than sufficient nutcasery in his background to fill out the necessary.

    Then comes Ruby. Right place, right time, having been doing some banking nearby. So random takes a hit here. When random no longer satisfies, another pattern is sought. It’s human nature.

    As to hitting a target–head shot, whatever–that’s meaningless. Any shot is an attempt, no matter how wide it goes and any hit is either lethal or possibly lethal, no matter where on the body. You shoot at a moving target with the adrenalin pumping….you might hit but your placement could be anything. Center of mass…hit the head. Aim at the head, hit the head….or maybe the chest, or maybe the fire plug.

    Nee more random, though.

  10. “Thomas Crooks shot at Trump. Man I’m tired of conspiracy weirdos.” -sharksauce.

    I think Crooks shot President Trump– but was he a lone assassin or were more people involved in the assassination attempt. We may get answers now that Republicans will have access to more government records.

    Since I’m a weirdo, explain to me why the Secret Service snipers that set up behind Trump to surveille that direction didn’t have a clear sight line to where Crooks took his shot? Why did the local LEO’s who were supposed to surveille that building’s roof leave their posts minutes before Crooks fired? Why did the SS not pick up the radios that would have allowed direct communication between them and the local LEO? That’s a few questions I would like answered. There’s more.

    How many coincidences does it take to become a conspiracy?

  11. Brian

    Coincidences….wait for it…coincide. Do they kind of line up like an arrow pointing in a given direction? Random, they point in all directions. was there any random thingy making the operation more difficult for Crooks?

  12. To the “weirdos”

    The answer to “how many”
    is:

    N+1.

    And to keep a conspiracy going the answer is:

    Whatever it takes.

  13. I was a very little 3yo kid then, but yet a few months later than Kennedy’s assassination, Douglas MacArthur died with a state funeral. My mother has told me that I asked if another President died, at least makes me think I shouldn’t have but must have got it was a bad event again.
    I think Oswald was alone but who knows if he was egged on by others?
    Would be nice to see all information released.

  14. “was there any random thingy making the operation more difficult for Crooks?” – Richard Aubrey

    no

  15. I was walking on the quad of the University of Illinois when he was shot. I had an immediate strong sense that LBJ had done it.

    As a former competitive shooter, University of Illinois Rifle Team and Fort Knox Rifle Team, owner of a Carcano, and someone with a lifelong familiarity with firearms, I say it is impossible for Oswald to have been the shooter.

    The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ by Roger Stone, is a great read.

    Maybe we will finally know when Trump 2 takes over.

  16. I was in sixth grade.

    We went out for after-lunch recess. When we came back, Mr. Reynolds, with a long face, summarized what had happened.

    Then he dismissed us for the day.

    Life changed.

  17. most likely,

    they had oswald on the radar since he defected to Russia, settled in Minsk where coincidentally two future high ranking Cuban regime officials were training married the daughter of a midlevel KGB officer, then settled in Dallas, the seat of the Russian emigres, too many flags to ignore,, his motivations were clearly against
    him as it would be with atta, nearly 40 years later, or mcveigh a decade prior,
    so mere incompetence one might entertain,

  18. I won’t argue that Oswald acted alone on that day.

    I will argue — yea, even with neo — that it might not be that simple. There are still unreleased JFK files. Why? Maybe for good or bad reasons.

    The CIA and FBI knew who Oswald was. He had defected to the USSR fergawdsake. They were tracking him. Perhaps they even created him. The CIA did conduct LSD research at Atsugi, Japan where Oswald was stationed.

    In those days there was the MKULTRA program (1953-1972) dedicated to mind control and creating mind-controlled assassins.

    The CIA destroyed all their MKULTRA files, so there’s no hard proof of anything. I don’t spend long winter nights pondering it.

    Trump says he will consider releasing the remaining JFK files.

    I look forward to it.

  19. Oswald did it, but his connections to US and foreign intelligence agencies haven’t fully come to light yet. The MLK and RFK assassinations could use even more investigation and disclosure. For example, I wondered for decades where James Earl Ray got the money and passports that were on him when he was arrested in London. Rumors of a second shooter seem better founded in the RFK shooting than in his brother’s earlier assassination.

  20. 18 y/o college freshman studying on the 3rd floor of the university library, between classes, suddenly a loud speaker blared in the quad below as we rushed to the window to look down “Kennedy was shot!” Everything shut down that weekend and the following Thanksgiving week. Less than a year later the lying, conniving, SOB Johnson was telling us not to worry, “Not a mother’s son will fight in Vietnam…” blah, blah, effing blah. Our world changed much for the worse that day.

  21. Oswald did it, but his connections to US and foreign intelligence agencies haven’t fully come to light yet. The MLK and RFK assassinations could use even more investigation and disclosure.

    Abraxas:

    Quite.

    How James Earl Ray, MLK’s assassin, who went from petty redneck crook to criminal mastermind eluding an international manhunt for months, continues to mystify me.

    Of course, maybe our vaunted law enforcement agencies are just incompetent, corrupt team players, as we have seen arrayed against Trump and his allies.

  22. Rumors of a second shooter seem better founded in the RFK shooting than in his brother’s earlier assassination.

    Abraxas:

    I agree.

    Fortunately. the physical evidence was destroyed by law enforcement not long after.

    The coroner’s claim, that RFK must have have been shot within 1-3 inches, while Sirhan Sirhan’s gun was never closer than a foot, was ignored.

  23. Notice that we don’t know anything more about Thomas Matthew Crooks, attempted Trump assassin, than we did a few weeks after.

    Notice that we still don’t know how Trump’s Secret Service / LEO protection was so incompetent that day in Butler, PA.

    Notice the media has effectively blacked out that assassination attempt. Compare that to the hysteria over J6.

    Nah. It’ll be fine.

  24. I am old enough, but not too old, to remember the day. I was in San Diego and the news broke as I was shaving before leaving for work. This may sound crass, but my first concern was to find a black arm band to wear on my uniform..
    Some might find it odd that although I had experienced the untimely passing of a number of friends, squadron mates, and so forth; protocol did not require a uniform adjustment to demonstrate mourning. That is aside from the time when, as a Naval Aviation Cadet, I represented the USN at the funeral of a flight member. A task I was singuarly unprepared to undertake.

    Such foolish thoughts aside, it was a shocking experience.

    I was never great admirer of JFK, and sadly he bequeathed us LBJ, and that was an unmitigated disaster.

  25. Abraxas:

    You write, “Oswald did it, but his connections to US and foreign intelligence agencies haven’t fully come to light yet.” The Bugliosi book goes into that aspect in great depth. If you’ve never read it, and the topic interests you, I strongly suggest you read it. And as I said, the book is searchable online. Follow the link I gave, for example, and do a search there for something like “KGB” or “FBI”. A ton of references in the book will come up.

  26. Mike Plaiss:

    No, but – one of the more ridiculous interludes of Trump’s during his 2016 campaign was when he tried to pin it (sort of) on Ted Cruz’s father. Not Trump’s finest hour.

  27. … one of the more ridiculous interludes of Trump’s during his 2016 campaign was when he tried to pin it (sort of) on Ted Cruz’s father. Not Trump’s finest hour.

    –neo

    I hated that bit of Trump.

    Art Deco, in his usual omniscient fashion, assures us that Cruz wasn’t bothered, but I suspect otherwise and wouldn’t blame Ted Cruz a jot for taking it personally.

    I grant that Ted Cruz is also a wise, pragmatic fellow who understands how politics works.

  28. What if … I say, what if .. Oswald were an assassin impelled into action just as Crooks might have been.

    Not as an A->B certainty, but as a maybe, throw it at the wall and see if it sticks, possibility .

    Kinda like most military battles. Pearl Harbor might have worked, might have failed. D-Day might have worked, might have failed.

    Roll the dice. Why not?

    Statistics.

  29. Oldflyer, I was getting ready to man my A-1 to fly out for carquals from NAS North Island when one of our mechs came running out of the line shack with the news that JFK had been shot. Didn’t know until I came back to NORIS that he was dead.

    I was shocked. Even today, I can tell you where I was and what I was doing on Pearl Harbor Day, VJ Day, JFK’s assassination, the day Reagan was shot, and 9/11. All big events.

    I agree that it was terrible luck that LBJ was VP. Most of what he did is now what Musk and Ramaswamy are going to try to undo.

  30. I would argue that it wasn’t terrible luck that LBJ was VP. LBJ was a terribly corrupt politician who assumed he ought to be POTUS.

    Fortunately, that didn’t happen.

    Wait a minute … 🙂

  31. huxley:

    I can’t remember whether you said you had ever read the Bugliosi book, but if you have any interest at all in the subject it is a must-read. I deals very deeply with every aspect and leaves no stone unturned.

  32. 1. How can you prove a negative–that there was no conspiracy–? I looked at page 1444 and the arguments seem flimsy. One argument is that no one has spilled the beans. Most of the participants are dead, and many reportedly died “conveniently.”

    2. Why have all the documents still not been released?

    3. As I think I commented on one of Neo’s earlier posts on the topic, I read some of the book and was not impressed. It seemed like a People magazine type work with pages of irrelevant personal details.

    4. What was the role of Ted Cruz’s father? 🙂

    My private grade school gave the kids the afternoons off on Wednesdays. I went to the local record store and bought my first 45 rpm record. The proprietor, a middle aged woman, said to me “Kennedy’s been shot” with a happy smile. I thought she was nuts.

    I read a book which purported that RFK was killed by an Iranian with a “camera” that fired a .22 bullet.

    Thank you Neo for this post. Somehow these ancient events are a welcome distraction from the current turmoil.

  33. I have two very disparate but connected memories associated with the president’s assassination.

    Our sixth-grade class was listening over the radio as Kennedy’s entourage paraded through Dallas, which was an exciting real life social studies lesson and a very distinct change in our routine, so of course we heard the frantic announcement of the shooting live and unfiltered. Our teacher, Mr. Brown, just stared at the radio for a long time before turning it off. I still remember how he looked. To this day, when a book says that someone “turned white” or blanched with shock, I visualize his face.

    When I was a graduate student in 1975, in political science as it happens, I was one of the teaching assistants, which included leading “study sessions” to reinforce the most recent lectures of the professor we were assisting.

    I remember clearly the day one of the older TA’s came into our office, very depressed and looking very much like Mr. Brown had. She explained that, because of the subject matter of the lesson, she had asked the class to tell where each of them had been when JFK was assassinated. There was a long silence, until finally one of the students told her, “We were still in kindergarten.”

    The years get away from us, somehow.

  34. neo on November 22, 2024 at 9:35 pm

    And as I said, the book is searchable online. Follow the link I gave, for example, and do a search there for something like “KGB” or “FBI”. A ton of references in the book will come up.

    That’s in ref to the Bugliosi book that neo linked to.

    Before this post came out — a day or two before I had watched JFK movie. The “third” and/or the “magic” bullet section stood out.

    Not one to ever read the Bugliosi book (unless I land back in prison) I did a search there: the magic bullet. OK…there was no “magic” bullet, and from that brief search there was no “third” bullet. Stuff was just too detailed, but I gathered enough to see that the JFK movie was apparently wrong about that.

  35. For example, I wondered for decades where James Earl Ray got the money and passports that were on him when he was arrested in London. Rumors of a second shooter seem better founded in the RFK shooting than in his brother’s earlier assassination.
    ==
    You wondered, his lawyer did not. Percy Foreman said he grilled Ray for hours on his expenditures (“down to the last 25c for a shave and a haircut”). He said their was no occult financing; Ray had the money from his savings. Gerald Posner’s idea was that the ‘Raoul’ in Ray’s account was a composite of Ray’s brothers.
    ==
    Bugliosi’s discussion of the RFK assassination inclines toward the view that there was more than one gunman. NB, Sirhan Sirhan had troublesome brothers.

  36. and many reportedly died “conveniently.”
    ==
    The ‘convenient’ deaths were of 18 people in the Warren Commission index (out of 450 odd) who died between November 1963 and February 1967. People die every year.

  37. Art. The snark “conveniently” does have some application in certain circumstances.
    For example, I’m a couple of months away from eighty. In my life…my father knew a guy whose wife committed suicide.. And he knew a guy whose daughter was murdered. Closest I’ve gotten to either way of going. A family friend was killed in an auto accident. Ditto.
    But, I spent close to half a century in the life insurance business. Piling up files of people who’d call me if a loved one or business associate died. One suicide and one auto accident.

    But if you’re a nationally-known politician whose associates keep dying in accidents and by suicide, at a substantial multiple of Aubrey’s experience, maybe there’s room for the raised eyebrow.

    So it would depend on how those people died whether to justify the sneer, “conveniently”. Was two shots to the back of the head ‘suicide”? Or old age at old-age age and not in the prime of life?

  38. Karmi:

    And the JFK movie was a pack of lies, not just one. Lies upon lies upon lies. One especially pernicious one was about the relative sitting positions of JFK and Governor Connaly.

  39. John Tyler:

    As Trump – who has seen many of the secret files – said in his Rogan interview, it was to protect the privacy of living people who testified or whose relatives were involved as agents. “Involved” does NOT mean “implicated” or “credibly implicated”, although some people assume it does. It means informants or CIA agents involved in the investigation, and their methods. No smoking gun.

    AI is helpful on what Bugliosi’s stance on the subject was:

    Bugliosi believes the primary reason for keeping some files classified is to protect the identities of intelligence sources and the methods used to gather information, not necessarily to cover up a conspiracy.

    He argues that the majority of the unreleased documents likely wouldn’t reveal any substantial new information regarding the assassination itself, as the evidence overwhelmingly points to Oswald as the lone shooter.

    Bugliosi is a strong critic of conspiracy theories surrounding the JFK assassination, and believes that the continued secrecy around some documents fuels speculation even when the information itself is not particularly damning.

    That’s certainly the case. Plus, I would add that even their release, and the non-revelations contained therein, would hardly silence the conspiracy believers. I don’t think anything would.

  40. one element here,
    https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2007/05/the_power_of_di.html

    the odds that sources and methods would be given up after 60 years seems unlikely we have seen how they hid the 28 pages, the January 6th tapes et al,

    why people are cynical, specially because of an apparat that arose after 9-11 that seems more vast than that that operated in the 60s, and certainly less competent,

    Even before Stone, the stories that were spun to say Bill Kurtis, about say the three corsican gunmen, which failed for a host of reasons, notably the fact at least one of the suspects, were in prison, and one was at sea,

  41. Gerald Posner’s “Case Closed” is another book that rigorously debunks JFK assassination conspiracy theories.

  42. IrishOtter:

    Agreed. That book was the definitive one but when Bugliosi’s came out I felt it was a great deal more comprehensive. Of course, Posner’s has the advantage of relative brevity.

  43. I just watched the CBS coverage of the first two hours. Man, has the technology changed. Walter is holding up wire telephotos of the motorcade. They were very definite that there were three shots. They switch to Dallas station KRLD which had cameras in the Trade Mart, where JFK was to speak. The crowd, sitting at the luncheon tables, knows something happened and that most likely JFK had been wounded.

    And there it is for all to see. Just below center screen is a woman eating vanilla pudding. Was she thinking “paid a lot for these tickets, gonna get my money’s worth?”

    NO! Clearly as she appears to savor her dessert, she is signaling to fellow conspirators that the deed is done, that Bell Helicopter’s future profits are secured.

  44. neo

    And the JFK movie was a pack of lies

    Looks that way – the Bugliosi book link you gave for searching also convinced me that the actual “sitting positions of JFK and Governor Connaly” explained a lot.

    Just bought the Parkland (film) blu-ray – if you’ve seen it, is it pretty close to the Bugliosi book? I have seen the movie a long time ago, but didn’t know about the book back then…

  45. Karmi:

    I don’t know anything about the Parkland film. But the book deals with just about everything – including a chapter on the Oliver Stone film.

  46. Nellie Connelly theories aside, one key fact stands out:

    There is no evidence that anyone other than Oswald shot at the car that day. None.

    There have been many speculations designed to sell books and lecture tours. Many of the authors and lecturers lied. Not made mistakes; they lied. One of the first and most obvious was, “nearly everyone in Dealy Plaza heard more than three shots.”

    No. Virtually everyone agreed on three. It doesn’t matter how many times Joe Rogan insists Woody Harrellson’s dad was a shooter.

  47. I was 19 years old and on the back of a Honda 300 motorcycle. My first husband and I were returning from the phone company’s teamster’s office. It was in Long Beach CA. I was carrying (trying to carry) a small frozen turkey gifted to us by the teamsters who had begun their strike just three weeks after we were married in late September. We were on the Coast highway. In those days it was all agriculture on the inland side and Pacific Ocean on the right. It was a clear blue day, but a little chilly. We were stopped at the only light on the highway for miles. A car came up next to us and the man rolled down his window–he was crying. Shouting against the wind that the president had been shot. The light changed and he took off down the highway. We were confused, not certain we had heard correctly. When we got home the family was in front of the tv trying to understand.

    BTW– I was not able to carry that dang turkey beyond that stop light! Hubby put it on the gas tank in front of him and kept it balanced until we got home! 🙂

    * Note: My high school sweetheart had just been discharged from the US Air Force. He had been stationed in Fukuoka Japan from 1961/2/3(?) for one year. While there he was frequently on “top secret duty” to Viet Nam. He was sent to Vietnam to repair airplanes that were being shot at by snipers. One repairman had been shot by a sniper while working on the wing of a plane. He brought the motorcycle when he came home in early 1963

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