Home » Open thread 10/21/2024

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Open thread 10/21/2024 — 67 Comments

  1. AI is here ‘n moving forward rapidly, and MS Windows is right there with the other big dogs. I have this Windows 11 24H2 – and Recall post up – posted after one of My Computers updated to the new 24H2. Except for the Dell lappy all my PCs are home built, and the oldest still active build was my first to update. I use 3 desktops – a main, a test PC, and one for my TV & media library. ‘Rose’ the test PC was first to update. Some quick notes on my test & experience.

    • It’s not “Windows 12” – and there is a lot of FUD, many ‘Click Bait’ articles/videos, and most seem to be looking for hits. Info can very from site to site.

    • There are Windows 11 PCs – and then there are Windows 11 AI Copilot+ PCs. My ‘Rose’ test computer is a plain ol’ Windows 11 Pro PC. The ACTUAL Recall gets installed on the AI Copilot+ PCs.

    24H2 is a full OS swap – it takes time to install, depending on the PC and your internet connection. I didn’t time it, but noticed it was taking longer to download ‘n install the update. Estimate for the process is probably less than 45-minutes, on the ‘Rose’ test PC. Others are noting an hour or longer.

    • From what I have read, 24H2 will eventually be on all Windows 11 PCs, but for now just the AI Copilot+ PCs.

    • Run a search for the Recall app in apps or Settings, and it is not there on the normal Win11 PC. Here’s where it gets confusing – run the command “Dism /Online /Get-Featureinfo /Featurename:Recall” in an Administrator command prompt and it will show that Recall is Enabled.

    • Run a search of Local Disk (C:) and it will show two – Type of file: Security Catalog (.cat). There are some Recall packages installed on a normal Win11 PC. From what I have read, and have guessed, they are probably some of the code for File Explorer to maintain compatibility between normal Winn11 PCs and the AI Copilot+ PCs. I am no expert, but MS isn’t going to have two different versions of File Explorer and such, IMHO.

    I did run a command to disable Recall on ‘Rose’ but believe there is really nothing to disable in reality. It’s there for compatibility—for now, and for the future. That’s my best guess and am sticking wid it! 😉

    Ignore the writers and YouTubers FUD – they are only wanting hits to their articles and/or videos.

    NOTE: Win11 now has “32%” of worldwide Windows users. Win10 is #1 – has like 900,000,000 worldwide users, and its end of life (EOL) date is 10/14/2025. People are still using Windows XP!?

  2. Genesis being pretty much plagiarized from much older texts is probably why translations could be off and/or difficult to translate.

    The ‘Epic of Creation’ is the Sumerian Creation version and is much older than the Genesis version.

    Enuma Elish

    Then you have the Babylonian influence later.

    Exodus was another heavily plagiarized book of the Bible: Papyrus Ipuwer

  3. Karmi,

    Thanks for sharing the Win 11 information. I foresee moving all the machines except for one laptop to Linux over the next year. And that laptop will move if I can get Quicken to run in a Windows VM under Linux. I started the transition a year ago with one desktop and one laptop. So far it has gone fine. I’m using ‘out of the box’ Ubuntu on both of them and so far I’ve only had to go to the command line for fun and exploration, not to fix or change anything. I was already using LibreOffice on Windows so office software was not an issue.

  4. Plagiarized? Sounds more like independent corroboration of historical events from different sources.

    As to this guy’s translation of Genesis I:1-3, that’s well known. The foremost Jewish interpreter of the Hebrew Bible, Rashi, from the 12th century, wrote that

    …to explain it in its plain sense, explain it thus: At the beginning of the Creation of heaven and earth, when the earth was without form and void and there was darkness, God said, “Let there be light.”

  5. They’ve been shoehorning Copilot AI onto Win10 systems as well as 11. I haven’t messed around with it yet, but the icon has appeared on all my Win10 systems since at least the last few updates. I wasn’t overly impressed with what Dave’s Garage showed about it over a year ago now.

  6. Why is Donald Trump trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

    Every day, I involuntarily listen to NPR as the wake-up alarm, and hear another Trump sound bite customized to strike FUD in the heart of any liberal thinking of maybe voting for him!

    Today it’s calling out the military on his enemies. Yesterday it was using playground profanity to describe his opponent. Has he peaked too early and is flirting with making the race closer, out of boredom?

    Can someone please tell him that making nasty comments in front of 70,000 people who are already voting for him may be fun (hear the roar!) but it is also just feeding ideas to the NPR newsroom?! And the NYT, and the WAPO, and my local librag!!

    You’re not supposed to be indulging in fun, Donald. Save that for after you win… you have convinced me that you are here to save America, now concentrate on that!

  7. well listening to NPR is your first mistake, there is plenty of joy in these ralllies,

    so we don’t follow Babylonian or Assyrian faiths, thats not our bag,
    You may not believe in anything as Chesterton was want to say

    Cities were burning for days and Milli Vanilli was fine with it, much like Tienamen Tim’s crazy wife Gwen,

    and she paid off the terrorists, Kamala not Gwen, fwiw,

  8. Can someone please tell him that making nasty comments in front of 70,000 people who are already voting for him may be fun (hear the roar!) but it is also just feeding ideas to the NPR newsroom?! And the NYT, and the WAPO, and my local librag!!

    I’m not sure that regular readers/listeners to NPR, NYT, and WaPo are particularly persuadable towards Trump at this point (I mean… if ever) whether Trump gives them ammunition or not. It’s not like this any of this is new and different. Trump says something provactive at a rally or in an interview or whatever, the leftwing media puts on a show losing their minds over it (or takes a piece of it out-of-context and makes it appear far worse than it is). It’s the same old song and dance we’ve been going through for almost a decade now.

  9. interestingly the latest fellow in puff daddy’s net is apparently mark cuban, hence the reaction he has exhibited which is more irrational then most, the latter contracted him to design his uniforms for the Dallas Mavericks,

    The Duranty Times in their aspirations toward stand up comedy, pushes pharmacy deserts, hmm wonder how that happened,

    they had some other ridiculous notion they put forward, but I don’t recall what it was,

  10. A very interesting short discussion from the late Dr. Heiser. His translation is consistent with what I’ve read from other scholars of Hebrew, as Jimmy points out above.

  11. I believe in simple principles of communication when trying to get a message through a hostile press: simplicity and exclusivity.

    Get the main idea across, elaborate it, but don’t obfuscate or clobber it. As I was told many years ago:
    1. Tell ’em what you’re gonna tell ’em.
    2. Tell ’em.
    3. Tell ’em what you told ’em.

    Nowhere in that is:
    4. Tell ’em funny and/or ribald anecdotes that your detractors can substitute for your important message.

    Look at it this way: if you don’t say anything but your critical message, they can’t “report” anything else! Hamstring them into telling your truth!

  12. @Ray+Van+Dune: Trump would have to say nothing, in order for outlets like NPR not to get their knickers in a twist over distortions of what Trump “said”. That would suit them to a T wouldn’t it? And of course they would then demand that he say this or that and express concern that he wasn’t, using the journalistic verb-without-a-subject and the ever-popular “some say”.

    It’s far easier to do the same with Kamala Harris’s comments, but they never do, they always make sure to “clarify” what she “really meant” quoting anonymous campaign spokesmen.

  13. How many times have they made things out of whole cloth, like the phantom they created about Project 2025, or stripped out any actual context like ‘blood bath’ or ‘both sides’ they stripped out as much inanity as they could do with the 60 minute interviews, we see how they treated the Bret Baier interview,

  14. I can’t remember where I first saw the pointers to these sites, or I’d give credit where credit is due.

    One of my political obsessions has been the Democrats’ expansion of election rules for early voting and mail-in voting. Also, in many states, ballot harvesting is legal. In others, it’s effectively legal for Democrats, even if the law says otherwise.

    These two sites display lots of data on early voting and mail-in voting. In fact, there’s so much data, it’s hard to digest it all. So far, I’ve just looked at the usual swing state suspects.

    Anyway, for anybody else who’s interested, here are the links:

    L2’s Early Return Dashboard
    https://www.l2-data.com/earlyreturn/

    NBC News early voting data
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/early-vote

  15. The bible is not a science text.

    Clause 2 is still problematic. Without form and void but God is hovering above the waters…

  16. Ray+Van+Dune

    Get the main idea across, elaborate it, but don’t obfuscate or clobber it. As I was told many years ago:
    1. Tell ’em what you’re gonna tell ’em.
    2. Tell ’em.
    3. Tell ’em what you told ’em.

    I have heard this approach from 1) a master teacher advising student teachers on how to structure a lesson and 2) Toastmasters’ advice on how to structure a speech.

    It’s good advice.

    Some beginning Toastmasters believe that you need to memorize your entire 5 minute speech. No, you just need to memorize the main points, and structure your speech as above.

  17. for thousands of years, people understood what this meant, the Works of the Creator cannot be perfectly rendered, the World has come to confuse the Creation for the Creator,

    yes the Turtle was an unindicted co conspirator in this rolling sham show, which continues to this day, he plays his cards close to the chest, starving out worthy candidates like Sheehy, he went all out with Murkowski last time, depriving a load of good men and women,

  18. John Fisher

    I have used Linux since 1996 as a secondary OS – and hobby. Use Fedora Cinnamon SPIN as my favorite now—since I can remove the Linux Nanny from it. Porteus Cinnamon is second favorite – lightweight, small, and powerful—it also has the option to remove the Linux Nanny ‘n her demands for a password all the time. Puppy used to be a favorite…

  19. Nonapod

    Copilot on Windows 10 is not the same as a Windows 11 AI Copilot+ PC…

    I use Firefox’s Bing Copilot as an AI sometimes also…

  20. I don’t know how “traditional” the “traditional understanding” is. There have long been interpretations of Genesis that don’t read it as it’s assumed in the video. The idea that creation must be a sustained act is very old. Augustine died in 430, and it surely predates him.

    I dislike these commentaries which are directed against the crudest understanding. Of course the audience for them never reflect that their notions of what people believe are caricatures, drawn from the least sophisticated believers.

  21. @Ray+Van+Dune.

    Sure, Trump could follow your advice. But

    1. Very few people would hear him. What Trump has done is break through the automatic filter normal people use when others talk politics.

    2. As others have pointed out, the MFM would lie about it. How sure are you that the NPR reports are accurate? I’ve reached the point where I start from a presumption of their falsity, and let them show me that’s not the case.

  22. an anecdote in arnold palmer’s hometown, perhaps a little blue, also where Tom Akin, a much maligned candidate in 2012, came from

  23. Karmi, I’ll take your word for it. I only have one Win 11 box at the moment anyway, and I have little interest in anything Copilot might offer at the moment anyway. While it might be fun to say something like “Prepare a form letter to person X” or something and have it open up Word and select a template for me to dictate, I don’t really care to have to compromise any more of my personal information to Microsoft than they likely already have anyway.

  24. Ray+Van+Dune wrote at the top

    “Why is Donald Trump trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?”

    Great points, Ray (also your post at 11:43 am)! I think that at this point Trump supporters should do likewise: say nothing that will deter an undecided voter from voting for Trump!

    Nonapod wrote:
    I’m not sure that regular readers/listeners to NPR, NYT, and WaPo are particularly persuadable towards Trump at this point

    But they could be involuntary listeners like Ray. (Sounds like his wife sets their clock radio alarm?)

    Eeyore wrote “@Ray+Van+Dune.
    Sure, Trump could follow your advice. But…

    Point taken, but Trump will be Trump. Still, I think it’s good advice for him, and especially his supporters.

  25. Ray+Van+Dune (11:43 am) concluded:

    “Look at it this way: if you don’t say anything but your critical message, they can’t ‘report’ anything else! Hamstring them into telling your truth!”

    RVD, I do concur with the gist and tenor of your initial (11:14 am) comment [“playground profanity” and siccing the military on enemies and such], but I do fear that you are also *severely* underestimating the opposition’s creativity, mendacity, and viciousness. Try that one again, whaddaya say? [wink]

    miguel cervantes (11:50 am) is very much on target, citing “blood bath” and “both sides”.

  26. Nonapod

    My above comment was really on Recall that is something new going into AI focused Copilot+ PCs with the 24H2 update. Recall can apparently be turned on or off, so I saw no privacy issues there.

    Yeah, I’m not going to talk to my computers either 🙂

  27. …but Trump will be Trump…

    –Dax

    I often wince when reading or listening to Trump. I’m reminded of the saying, or one of its variants:
    _____________________________________________

    If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a motorcar.

  28. So after Trump’s McDonalds foray, there’s a big brouhaha over Kamala’s claim to have worked at McDonalds in her youth. McDonalds themselves has claimed that they have no record of her ever working for them, but in fairness that doesn’t necessarily close the matter since most McDonalds restuarants are franchisees so it’s at least concievable that individual employment roles with employee names from possibly over 40 years ago may be less than accurate or even exist at all.

  29. it’s at least concievable that individual employment roles with employee names from possibly over 40 years ago may be less than accurate or even exist at all.

    Nonapod:

    I appreciate your fairness, but after Trump’s master troll on Harris at McDonald’s — I can’t recall a better political stunt in my lifetime — Harris has said nothing in her own defense.

    As far as I’m concerned, Trump serving fries in a drive-thru window to a Typical American sealed the election for Trump.

    But then, I’m an excitable boy.

  30. The failing Joe Biden, his term in office still having several months to run, and selected by 14 million voters, via a primary, to run as the Democrat nominee for a second term, was just shunted aside, effectively removed from office/power, and his VP, Kamala Harris, was installed in his place as the Democrat nominee.

    Biden’s removal was not via the Constitutionality required procedures of the 25th Amendment, the Democratic leadership just shoved him aside.

    As I understand it, there are no Constitutional processes, other than Impeachment or the 25th Amendment, for removing a sitting President from office.

    How come no one is concerned about, or investigating what was obviously a coup, and totally outside of the law, which was carried out by the leadership of the Democrat Party?

  31. Snow on Pine:

    Biden has not been removed from office; he is still POTUS.

    There is no Constitutional law about how a political party handles the voluntary resignation of a presidential nominee from position on the party ballot.

    Sure, it stinks six ways from Sunday. But what’s to investigate?

  32. As I understand it, there are no Constitutional processes, other than Impeachment or the 25th Amendment, for removing a sitting President from office.

    How come no one is concerned about, or investigating what was obviously a coup, and totally outside of the law, which was carried out by the leadership of the Democrat Party?

    Strictly speaking, Biden wasn’t removed from office. He voluntarily stepped aside (or rather he was forced to step aside) as the Democrat’s presidential candidate, but he was allowed to remain president until the end of his term as a sort of panacea for his ego despite his cognitive ability clearly being in severe decline and the dangers of having a mentally compromised person as President of the United States.

  33. MJR, thanks for the support. Re: “…but I do fear that you are also *severely* underestimating the opposition’s creativity, mendacity, and viciousness. Try that one again, whaddaya say? [wink]”

    Oh yes, I am understating it – my simple advice is not going to cure it. I just don’t want to make it as easy for them as we sometimes do!

  34. Better relax or you’ll never make it past 30…

    Karmi:

    Too late!

    I’m 72.

    I just go where the guitar takes me,

  35. any recommendations on a good travel guitar?

    Nonapod:

    Funny, you should ask.

    I was considering travel to the South, but the incidence of recent hurricanes has rendered those plans less desirable.

    Nonetheless, in a fit of optimism, I just ordered a small body Yamaha acoustic guitar, which should arrive in a few days. $349 — not too expensive. Small body — less trouble to lug around.

    –“Yamaha FS830 Small Body Solid Top Acoustic Guitar, Dusk Sun Red”
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CFOAW92

    Hmm… Maybe I should’ve gotten the Tobacco Sunburst.

  36. @ Nonapod > “… in fairness that doesn’t necessarily close the matter since most McDonalds restuarants are franchisees so it’s at least concievable that individual employment roles with employee names from possibly over 40 years ago may be less than accurate or even exist at all”

    A couple of points, not necessarily an argument, against Kamala’s claim to McD fame, but first one note in her favor: Her fry-cook nostalgia was brought up “late in the game” but that’s okay; the importance of youthful employment degrades quickly over a long career and is rightly jettisoned from most resumes. However, bringing it back into her persona’s picture at this point smacks of inauthenticity, if not duplicity.

    1) Even if the franchise’s official business records are incomplete, which they may be after this long, I have records of my employment back to High School (no, the IRS doesn’t require that; I’m a compulsive hoarder).

    2) I even have old photos of some of the places I worked, despite not having digital cell phones back then.

    3) The Democrats have found plenty of people to swear to allegations of rape against Republicans, ranging from almost certainly false to obvious fictions. Why can’t they find someone willing to swear they worked with Kamala?
    (OK, one source says “and a friend” but I haven’t seen any other established media reports confirming it; anyone know different?)
    https://x.com/marcthiessen/status/1848171607035969884

    4) Her team didn’t hop onto the value of a PR photo-op where “Kamala reprises her star role” — but she’s done weirder stunts.

    5) The reaction of the Democrats dissing Trump for pandering to the bourgeois also call into question their sincerity in lauding Kamala for the same work.

    https://notthebee.com/article/the-media-meltdown-after-trumps-campaign-stop-at-mcdonalds-is-just-about-the-funniest-thing-youll-see-online-today

    The most disgraceful lefty attack came courtesy of the progressive rag, The Palmer Report:
    (see tweet)
    It’s “humiliating” to work at an iconic American brand where tens of millions of Americans have been employed? Come on, Compassionate Libs™, and tell us what kind of losers work at McDonald’s!

    Forward with GoldenArchesGate!

  37. Richard Grennell has kept his HaukTuah2024 McD’s query very simple: where was the store? And after weeks of asking? Still no answer.

  38. Is This the Video that Should End the Campaign?

    It features Brian Lozenski, whom Tim Walz’s Department of Education appointed to guide the development of “Ethnic Studies” curriculum that will revamp all K-12 public education in Minnesota.

    This is a direct quote from Tim Walz’s education appointee in Minnesota:

    “You can’t be a critical race theorist and be pro-US…CRT is an anti-state theory that says the U.S. needs to be deconstructed.”

  39. Trying to explain Judeo-Christian theology via science misses the point, in my opinion.

    However, I do find it intriguing how modern science seems to converge on theology.

    The Big Bang (creation)
    Evolution from apes to humans (The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil)
    God’s omniscience (The “raisin bread” analogy of space-time)

  40. A lot of people on this thread wanting the Trump in their head instead of the Trump that has existed since the 70’s. Lota Concerned Conservatives.

  41. Possible useful info: Kamala was born in 1964. Her mother (post-divorce) moved K and her sister to Montreal (from CA) with her where she had landed a job at McGill University. K was 12 at the time of the move (1976), too young to work at McD, anywhere. She attended school through HS in Montreal to 1981 graduation. She then attended a college in Canada for a year before enrolling at Howard Univ in 1982 (back in US at last).

    For the record, I can name every one of my employment adventures back to my paper route in 1956 ( I could probably score 80% on pointing out subscribers if I were to visit the neighborhood today). At every one of them I could name at least one fellow employee who would remember me, should they still be alive. I am no spring chicken.

  42. It features Brian Lozenski, whom Tim Walz’s Department of Education appointed to guide the development of “Ethnic Studies” curriculum that will revamp all K-12 public education in Minnesota.
    ==
    That Minnesota has a state-mandated ‘ethnic studies’ curriculum should make every Minnesota Democrat untouchable.

  43. @Richard Cook– Is there a candidate that better deserves our (the collective of Neo’s readers, varied as it is) than those on the ballot today? The time is long past wishing for the mystery candidate to suddenly appear. You fight today’s war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. —said someone famous not that long ago.

    Either of the Trump’s you mention far exceed the capabilities of Harris. For better or worse, those are the choices.

  44. I was looking at one of those weird electric [gutars] but they seem ungainly.

    Nonapod:

    Part of my spec for a travel guitar is not having to carry an amp and cable around with me.

    I also know I want an acoustic on general principles, but not a “dreadnought” — apparently the term for a full-size acoustic guitar. Ugh.

  45. I think that a thinking person would use context to understand what is meant by “the enemy within”, and, especially, understand that this is not a static group, but can refer to different groups–different in both degree and in kind. Different groups of enemies might require different responses:
    – Politicians (e.g., Schiff) would be contended with in the political arena.
    – Problems caused by Deep State bureaucrats subverting policy would need to be confronted using bureaucratic means.
    – Rioters (e.g., Antifa) would need to be confronted with force, which in cases where local law enforcement is overwhelmed, might include the National Guard (military).

    I think that, when listening to Trump, it has been fairly easy to understand what he is referring to by “the enemy within”, and to understand how it would be opposed.

    It should also be remembered that the current administration views Trump and conservatives/libertarians as “the enemy within”, and has not been hesitant to use lawfare as a weapon.

  46. Another Mike-

    TDS takes many forms. From Trump=Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin, to, “if he can change this one thing I don’t like”. I’m from Montclair, N.J. originally and have been following him since the 70’s. He has not changed. People still fail to see that.

  47. @ huxley
    If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a motorcar.
    I don’t get it, but it’s funny. 🙂

    There was a saying, “Let Reagan be Reagan.”

    With Trump, you have to take the good, the bad and the gross.

    Re Kamala and McDonalds, if the McDonalds was in the USA (not Canada), I would think Social Security would have a record of her earnings.

    I agree that Trump’s stunt was a lark!

  48. Kamala lived in Montreal from the age of 12 through her first year of college. Formative and adaptive years. I have never heard any reference to her having achieved fluency in the French language. It appears she struggled in her first years at school with the language barrier – totally understandable – but then enrolled in an English language high school. The description of which sounds like a Waldorf type ‘hands on’ school. Meaning, ‘not academically demanding’.
    She is a complete mediocrity. I can’t believe anyone would entrust her with the fate of this nation.
    If she wins I think the country will ultimately break apart and will deserve too.
    Can we really be this dumb?

  49. Another+Mike wrote:
    “Either of the Trump’s you mention far exceed the capabilities of Harris. For better or worse, those are the choices.”
    Exactly.
    And, IMO, this ship America will not survive another term run by the democrat cabal, no matter who’s face they stick on front.
    It’s not just Harris’ faults I fear. It’s also the cabal’s goals!

  50. Indeed, Harris is just another vapid, if extremely dangerous, cipher.
    A puppet.
    A face on a stick.
    The face of the monstrous political party that the Democrats have become.

    The problem is that one can believe absolutely NOTHING anymore…which is EXACTLY how Big Brother wants it.

    (And now, in addition to everything elses, one has to pray for the safety of Elon Musk…. This is getting more than a bit out of control….)

  51. If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a motorcar.
    I don’t get it, but it’s funny.

    Dax:

    My comment was a bit cryptic. My point, and that of the saying, is one might wish a person to be more this or that, but then they would be someone else.

    I doubt much of individual human nature is all that changeable either.

    Stephen King, after he became well-known, was once asked why he wrote horror. King replied:

    What makes you think I have a choice?

    It would be nice if Trump were more like Lincoln or Reagan, but I doubt those choices are on his menu.
    ______________________

    PS. I got the grandmother/motorcar saying from Fritz Perls, a Jewish psychoanalyst who fled Nazi Germany, founded Gestalt Therapy and became a star in the 70s Human Potential Movement in California.

    My efforts to trace the saying go back to Yiddish.

  52. My PhD is in Hebrew Bible and Ancient Near East. I was interested in what he had to say. I’ve taught on Genesis (in secular and religious settings), have preached on it many times, know the book very well. At first I was concerned it was yet another amateur who didn’t know what he was talking about. Nope. Heiser had the academic chops and track record. Although I earned the degrees most of my career was in pastoral ministry. He was trained at University of Wisconsin – Madison which has a strong reputation (especially in languages).

    I won’t say he was wrong. But I’m not persuaded. Yes he talked of dependent clauses but did he truly prove that for Gen 1:1? Even if we adjust the vowel from b-reshit to ba-reshit we still might have a difficulty with the syntax. The verb bara “create” looks like a finite verb. We might need to adjust the vowels for that word (to make it an infinitive construct) as well so we end up with something like “In the beginning of God’s creating (the heavens and the earth)”. I could be wrong about that. Might be other examples of a dependent temporal clause with a finite verb.

    Brent Strawn published a brilliant article (2023) that appears to solve the apparent problems with (1) the syntax and (2) the words (especially b-reshit). Here’s the abstract:

    This essay argues that the vocalization of the very first word of Gen. 1.1 in the Masoretic Text (MT), b?r??š?t, which is often thought to be in error in some way, may instead be the result of exegetical activity. Specifically, in light of the well-attested tradition that links Wisdom with creation both within the Bible and without, it is possible that b?r??š?t in MT Gen. 1.1 participates in the line of interpretation that ciphers Wisdom as “Beginning” (r??š?t) in light of Prov. 8.22. If so, the MT of Gen. 1.1 is not a grammatical error to be corrected, but an exegetical cross-reference, referring readers to Wisdom’s role in creation as known, inter alia, in Proverbs 8.

    *****

    Since graduate school I’ve been interested in what apparently is known as the “Chaoskampf problem” in biblical studies. Because it sure looks like God creates by bringing order out of chaos (and not simply by creating “out of nothing”). I’m sure Heiser was aware of the conversations. One of my favorite teachers in seminary wrote his dissertation on Genesis 1-3 and I read the first chapter which focuses on the pre-history of that text.

    If all we had to do was adjust b-reshit to ba-reshit why did the Masoretes not do so? Why is it pointed that way? Such that Jewish and Christian interpreters have had to wrestle with what some (such as Heiser) regard as a syntax problem?

    This isn’t a hill I would die or even debate on. But (before reading Strawn’s article) I preferred to read Gen 1:1 as an introductory summary of everything that followed. Similar to the opening line of Enuma Elish (which we read in Akkadian). Almost like the title of an television episode.

    “In (the??? therein lies a problem) beginning God created the heavens and the earth”.

    And then we learn how he did it. Starting with Gen 1:2. A dark ball of angry water. Order and harmony out of chaos. See Jon Levenson, Creation and the Persistence of Evil: The Jewish Drama of Divine Omnipotence.

    Could I be wrong? Heck yeah.

    Last month I was reading The Bride of the Lamb by the Orthodox Christian theologian Sergius Bulgakov. He denies that Genesis 1 describes a sequence of events in history. It’s not “what happened”. It’s about ontology. Genesis 1 describes a hierarchy of being. Which (unfortunately?) requires a sequence of words which can be misunderstood as “history”. He argues the first creation narrative is meta-history.

    I’m at the point where I am trying to find a “grand unified interpretation” which includes the insights of Levenson, Bulgakov, now Strawn, et al.

  53. @ Rick67 – thanks for the very informative comment. I appreciate your laying out the context and controversies, even if in just a very brief format.
    FWIW, the Latter-day Saint cosmology agrees with the “creation out of chaos” not “out of nothing.”

    Even Wikipedia gets it right, although without citations and out of date with the style book: “According to Mormon Latter-day Saint scripture, the Earth’s creation was not ex nihilo, but organized from existing matter.”

    The Encyclopedia of Mormonism is a more scholarly source.
    https://eom.byu.edu/

    Latter-day Saints have, in addition to the biblical Genesis, two modern restorations of ancient scriptural accounts of the Creation in the Book of Moses and the book of Abraham. Related authoritative information also appears in the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the LDS temple ceremony. Drawing on this wealth of creation literature, Latter-day Saints understand that Jesus Christ, acting under the direction of God the Father, created this and other worlds to make possible the immortality and eternal life of human beings who already existed as spirit children of the Father. This understanding differs from both scientific and traditional Christian accounts in that it affirms God’s purpose and role, while recognizing creation as organization of preexisting materials, and not as an ex nihilo event (creation from nothing). Furthermore, these accounts describe an active role for God’s spirit children in the Creation and include a more detailed version of the origins of evil.

    More details with citations follow.

    IMO, though, Isaac Asimov probably has the problem nailed in this short story
    (found several places on the internet, but only published in 1979, so still in copyright, thus only excerpted here).

    How it Happened by Isaac Asimov

    My brother began to dictate in his best oratorical style, the one which has the tribes hanging on his words.
    “In the beginning,” he said, “exactly fifteen point two billion years ago, there was a big bang and the Universe–”
    But I had stopped writing. “Fifteen billion years ago?” I said incredulously.
    “Absolutely,” he said. “I’m inspired.”

    I said, “Suppose you describe one million years of events to each roll of papyrus. That means you’ll have to fill fifteen thousand rolls. You’ll have to talk long enough to fill them and you know that you begin to stammer after a while. I’ll have to write enough to fill them and my fingers will fall off.

    My brother thought awhile. He said, “You think I ought to cut it down?”
    “Way down,” I said, “if you expect to reach the public.”
    “How about a hundred years?” he said.
    “How about six days?” I said.
    He said horrified, “You can’t squeeze Creation into six days.”
    I said, “This is all the papyrus I have. What do you think?”

    “Oh, well,” he said, and began to dictate again, “In the beginning– Does it have to be six days, Aaron?”
    I said, firmly, “Six days, Moses.”

    http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/;-)/Asimov_HowItHappened.html

  54. That is fascinating about the linguistic roots

    My pastor has focused on the words in greek and latin and hebrew and how they were translated into say the king james version

  55. Rick67:

    A Jewish take on it from medieval times:

    1:1 When at the beginning God created (Or: When God began to create) the heaven and the earth (Or: The universe) – 1:2 the earth being formless and void, with darkness over the deep, and a divine wind sweeping over the waters – 1:3 God said, ‘let there be light’… .”

  56. Thanks neo for the link. I need to do some digging to learn how/why Jewish exegetes interpret Gen 1:1 as a dependent clause.

    And thanks to AesopFan for the reply.

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