Braver Angels: helping loved ones divided by politics
Braver Angels is a group dedicated to helping people from opposite sides of the political spectrum be able to talk rationally and calmly about politics. Good luck. I think it’s a laudable but very difficult goal.
I noticed that they have videos at YouTube that feature marriage and family therapist Bill Doherty doing sessions with some volunteers – not actors, but real people with political disagreements with loved ones that have been heated enough that they feel they need help. You might be interested in taking a look; here’s the playlist.
I have five kids. Two are conservative and two are lefties. One, a daughter, is a reasonable lefty. She and I have had conversations about politics. The other lefties just agree to disagree. Both are lawyers, of course. We don’t argue as we all know it would be uinseless. My moderate daughter has a child, now 5, and she says it has changed her life. Maybe she is saying what I want to hear, but I think it has had a huge effect on her.
In 1992, we were a family of four (our third child had not yet happened).
I favored Ross Perot**, my wife [now deceased] favored Bush The Elder, my son went with Andre Marrou (Libertarian), and my daughter wanted Bill Ciinton. Could we be more electorally diverse than that?
** as something of a primal scream. I viewed the national election that year as being among a liar, a dissembler, and a fraud (plus minor candidate Marrou).
(Of course this was at the tail end of the Age Of Civility, when people might disagree pointedly but still express civility and courtesy and we’re-all-in-this-together-ness, so there were no knock-down-drag-outs to worry about.)
Vivek Ramaswamy: “I miss the country where we can disagree like hell & still get together for dinner at the end of it.”
https://twitter.com/VivekGRamaswamy/status/1831406881367322902
MJR – “I viewed the national election that year [1992] as being among a liar, a dissembler, and a fraud”
Ok, that covers Clinton, what about Bush and Perot? Full disclosure: I was still a Democrat then and voted for BJ.
Kate – Vivek Ramaswamy: “I miss the country where we can disagree like hell & still get together for dinner at the end of it.”
It reminds me of growing up in Connecticut in the 50s-60s. At the time the state was not deep blue like now but truly purple. The Democrats were a little to the left of center, the Republicans a little to the right and supporting different parties was like rooting for different college football teams. My Jewish parents were Republicans though would probably be considered “RINOs” now lol, and were beloved by their mostly Democrat friends.
It reminds me of my husband’s immigrant family. Mostly Croatians, they had neighborhood friends who were Serbian, who after all spoke the same language and came from nearby areas. They would shout at each other over dinner about Yugoslav politics, and then gather for dessert and another drink as best of friends. My father-in-law would raise a toast, saying, “But thank God we’re all over here!”
I’ve pretty much given up trying to explain, defend, or change minds. When in mixed company, meaning lefties, I won’t really engage in politics. I’ve learned that nearly all of them are in a media bubble and never hear anything that doesn’t reinforce their views.
The only time I’ll engage is when someone is enthusiastic about wind turbine power generation. I have the incredibly simple facts on my side, which of course, are usually ignored.
It always amazes me how really smart people can be so ignorant because of cognitive bias.
FOAF (3:09 pm) said: “Ok, that covers Clinton, what about Bush and Perot?”
At no time when I made that pronouncement (“I viewed the national election that year [1992] as being among a liar, a dissembler, and a fraud”) did I ever bother to specify which might be which — and I never was challenged on it; congratulations, you are the first, 32 years later [smile].
I had real honesty issues with all of them, albeit in differing flavors. Mix-‘n’-match?
(It’s been quite a while, and I’m not up on many of the details / rationales any more.)
Judging by the bios on the leaders page, another “non-partisan” group that’s really dominated by the Left or soon will be. People from the State Department, DOD, CIA, Google, university professors, and an owner of a yoga studio in Berkeley.
What they’re doing now might be honest and even-handed but I don’t think you could count on that long. Personnel is policy.
The more of the Braver Angels website and communications I read, the more it looks like an alliance of the Democrats and NeverTrump Republicans a la “No Labels”.
Some of the things they recommend only make sense from that perspective. For example, they say that every voter should have to show ID to vote, but they also say every voter should be able to vote by mail, well those two things don’t go together. And most importantly they don’t want any candidate to question election results.
In NC, they do go together. The GOP-dominated legislature passed, over the Dem governor’s veto, a requirement that absentee ballots (which are by request only) must include a photocopy of the voter’s photo ID in the outside envelope. Local election boards will check each one against registration; only valid voters’ ballots will be counted.
Niketas:
The thing about Braver Angels is that they don’t focus that much on the content of the politics. Their positions regarding voting rules, etc., are amalgams of the different points of view of members. But that’s not their basic function at all. They spend far more time on helping people who are at loggerheads and can’t even talk politics with each other without screaming find ways to talk calmly about politics. It is especially helpful for families whose members have let politics get in the way of family harmony and communication.
FOAF:
You voted for me in 1992? Awww, I’m flattered! I would’ve been too young to serve, though. 😉
@neo:Their positions regarding voting rules, etc., are amalgams of the different points of view of members. But that’s not their basic function at all.
This may be true for now but considering the bios of their leadership, their funding sources and partnerships (for example with NPR), I think there’s good reason to be concerned that this group is not what it appears to be. It was formed right after Trump was elected in 2016 by a guy who identifies as a liberal Democrat.
You might check out their sympathetic interview with a Palestinian activist:
And that would just be crazy talk, right? It literally never occurred to this Palestinian growing up in Nablus that “from the river to the sea” might be interpreted as expelling or killing all the Jews in Israel. He found out about this JUST NOW when he went to college in Texas and started talking to Jews! He never heard any Palestinians, in Palestine, say so!
Sounds legit. At least his Braver Angels interviewer seems to think so.
Oklahoma goes one step further wrt to absentee ballots – your absentee ballot has to be notarized before mailing. But, the notary public cannot charge a fee for dealing with ballots. If you are in a nursing home or vet center, the county’s absentee ballot board will go to the center to verify your id. Ballot harvesting is against the law.
https://www.oklahoma.gov/elections/voters/absentee-voting.html
Re divided families – my sister is liberal so we don’t talk politics. But, she was very nervous to tell me that they started going to the Episcopal church because the local Catholic church was too conservative. My reaction was great – at least you are still going to a church.
Niketas:
I realize that the old rule – “any organization not explicitly on the right inevitably becomes leftist over time” – probably applies. But at the moment they seem basically fine.
@neo:But at the moment they seem basically fine.
I might have thought so too had I not seen that interview with the Palestinian activist, and then done some more digging. Take a look at their affiliations and leadership, if you have the time. The commenter going by “Anne” might recognize the Seattle-based people and organizations.
In the past couple of years or so I’ve cut ties with at least five formerly very close friends because of their leftist views and their compulsion to express them. I simply stopped communicating with them and they have made no effort to re-connect with me. It’s a sad situation and I feel bad about it but I can’t stand anymore to listen to their drivel. I’m the one at fault here. If I had simply nodded my head and said uh-huh uh-huh when they were talking we’d all still be friends. But I couldn’t do it. I don’t talk politics anymore even with those who share my views (or a close variant thereof). Mrs. Otter and I don’t talk politics because she had TDS and I love her and value my 43-year marriage. What a world, what a world.
IrishOtter: You are wiser than I am; still struggling with as sister who can’t get over the Billy Bush tape (which lets face it is true of gold digging climbers). I think TDS should now be referred to as PTDS, as these people have been struggling with it Post Trump and now it seems Pre, like PMS.
Maybe focusing on things that are agreed upon…
Video and full text transcript of RFK Jr.
https://www.malone.news/p/rfk-jr-full-speech-also-as-text
God speed.
PS: also perhaps this, but I have not read/listened yet https://www.malone.news/p/tucker-carlson-interviews-rfk-jr
I have a relation who believes the oldest, least credible, longest-debunked lies about Trump and republicans. Can’t be convinced otherwise.
She is, literally, stupid.
And, when pressed, up is down and Trump supporters don’t have college degrees.
Postal balloting should be permitted in the following situations:
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1. Civilian government employees posted abroad and spouses of same living in country with them.
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2. Servicemen and spouses living with them.
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3. Persons under the age of 25 who are enrolled at a residential campus.
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4. Miscellaneous persons who are eligible but reside in institutional group quarters.
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5. People who have filed an attestation from their doctor that they are homebound.
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6. People who have filed an attestation from their work supervisor that their work takes them out of the county overnight for > 50 days per year.
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7. People who live > 10 miles from the nearest polling station.
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All of the foregoing would would have a standing order for a postal ballot and enrollment books at in-person polling station would have on them a notation that a ballot was already sent to the subject in the mail. In the case of categories 1-4, their responses to queries on the voter registration form would include stating a formal domicile and a palpable residence. The formal domicile would determine the content of the ballot and the palpable residence would be to where communications were sent. Communications would not be sent to postal boxes unless the registrant was a federal employee or a dependent of a federal employee and contacted through the federal government’s PX system or the registrant attested the postal service did not deliver mail to his home address. Formal domiciles would have to be detached houses, townhouses, duplexes, or apartments and condominia with postal boxes. You could be the owner, renter, spouse of renter or owner, or a guest on the property. With regard to the latter three situations, a separate application would have to be made to set up the standing order. Standing orders would have to be renewed at least quadrennially.
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The simplest thing in the world they could have done to remove impediments to casting a ballot would be to move voting to Saturday. For only about 12% of the adult population is Saturday a regular workday. You could have polls open from 7 am to 6 pm Saturday and from 6 to 10:00 pm on Friday evening. You give people 15 hours to vote and the only clots you’re likely to see are among the chronic procrastinators who show up at 5:00 pm Saturday. They didn’t do this. Instead, they institute a mess of convenience measures which injure ballot security. They also quite thoughtlessly introduce digital technology contra the advisories of computer science professionals who had studies the issue.
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Another thing they did not do was clean up the electoral calendar, in spite of the Florida recount complaints about how complicated was the ballot. Lots of things you could have done. I’m not aware of state legislatures doing squat, even when statutory legislation could fix matters.
I am unable to communicate with my family about politics because any mention of Trump or his policies initiates screaming. This is the fault of the media, which makes a profit by tearing US families apart, preying on their most impressionable members and selling the idea that an objective or balanced view is somehow dishonest.
When I meet Walter Cronkite in Hell, I’m going to punch the bastard in the face!
This is the fault of the media,
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No, it’s the fault of your relatives.