Cheatle needs to go
Seems to me there was a time when people respected the Secret Service. Then again, memory deceives me, because even back in 1963 when Kennedy was assassinated, many of the conspiracy theories – which involved just about every possible government agency – implicated the Secret Service as well.
So it’s no surprise that the assassination attempt on Trump is not only already rife with conspiracy theories galore, but that some of them involve the cooperation of the Secret Service.
I’ve already said my piece many times over about the JFK conspiracy theories, and so I’ll repeat my position only briefly here: the conspiracy theories are garbage – sometimes merely ignorant garbage, and sometimes malevolent self-serving garbage by grifters out to make a buck. Read Bugliosi’s book Reclaiming History, especially the first 500 pages or so, if you want to learn the facts. That sounds like a lot of reading, but it’s all riveting. You can access a great deal of the book online, here.
I also don’t ascribe to conspiracy theories about Saturday’s attempt on Trump; I’ve seen nothing to indicate conspiracy, and Crooks would be the last person conspirators would choose. But incompetence of the worst order on the part of the Secret Service and other law enforcement agencies? That I can get behind. There’s no question in my mind that Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle has got to go. Get a load of this:
The Secret Service director said the security agency did not station snipers on top of the Pennsylvania roof from which a gunman shot former President Donald Trump last weekend because it was “sloped.”
Kimberly Cheatle, the Secret Service chief refusing calls to step down after Trump was shot in the head, told ABC News that federal officials opted to forgo snipers on the rooftop that was identified as a security threat days before the event.
“That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” she said. “And so, you know, the decision was made to secure the building, from inside.”
Three counter-snipers were positioned in the building underneath the roof from which Saturday’s gunman fired multiple shots killing one rallygoer and injuring three others, including Trump. The event’s security “command center” was even notified of the shooter moments before the would-be assassin began firing into the crowd.
This makes zero sense unless there was a policy of zero tolerance for any injuries to Secret Service agents, however remote the possibility. It makes even less sense when you consider how slight the roof slope was – and besides, weren’t Secret Service snipers positioned on a roof with a similar slope right behind where Trump spoke? And I’d love to hear the rationale for positioning snipers inside a building, where their sightlines would probably be highly limited.
I’ve also read that there were sightings of the shooter Crooks as early as 30 minutes before the incident, and that local law enforcement was trying to figure out if he was dangerous. Did they confront him? Apparently he kept appearing and disappearing. Did an important alert go out, or did he look so innocuous they dismissed him as not worth much concern?
It seems to me that complacency as well as sheer stupidity were the reasons this happened the way it did, and sheer luck enabled Trump to survive. But not securing the high places is unconscionable. I’m no security expert, but how about at least a drone?
Neo, yes to all. My thoughts though are “What the Hell is going on!”.
I do not believe in conspiracy theories. This is just gross incompetence. He comments about the slope of the building be to much really is beyond stupid. And yes as you pointed out, the counter snipers behind Trump were on a roof that looks like it sloped more than the one the shooter used. As for the other agency cop, did they transfer from Ulvada?
NOTE: Cops assigned to Trumps security just killed someone in Milwaukee. And now they are saying there is/was a creditable threat from Iran trying to killTrump.
“And we’re all supposed to believe it was just an innocent oopsie?”
Sean Davis (CEO of The Federalist) connects dots, July 16, 2024.
*** HIGHLY RECOMMENDED BY MJR. ***
BEGIN PASTE
Nobody wants to hear this because of the implications, but oh well, because it needs to be said: Joe Biden’s security regime deliberately and with malice and forethought created the conditions that led to an attempted assassin shooting Donald Trump in the head. It is by the grace of God that he lived and our nation is not currently in the midst of a violent civil war.
They deliberately starved Trump’s security team of the resources it needed. And they did it repeatedly, over many weeks and months.
With Trump’s security detail understaffed, under-resourced, and stretched to its limits, Biden’s security regime reportedly diverted even more resources to a hastily planned Jill Biden event that just happened to be in the area.
Biden’s security regime then ordered the most obvious assassination perch in the entire area to remain outside the main security perimeter.
Furthermore, Biden’s Secret Service director ordered law enforcement and counter-snipers OFF the roof the assassin used.
If that weren’t enough, Biden’s security regime also refused to block the line of sight from the assassin’s perch to Trump’s location. When law enforcement radioed in a suspicious person using a laser range finder at the building and even took photos of him, nothing was done to detain the assassin.
The assassin was so obviously a threat that bystanders at the event begged law enforcement to stop him, but nothing happened. And even as snipers on the roof near Trump saw a gunman on the other roof, Biden’s security regime refused to have agents immediately surround Trump or remove him from the stage to protect him from being shot.
Given the lies and nonsense from both Biden’s Department of Homeland Security secretary and his Secret Service director, it’s increasingly difficult to believe this was just a series of independent mistakes (Secret Service director Kim Cheatle at one point this week claimed snipers couldn’t be on the roof because it was sloped and they might fall and hurt themselves). In contrast, when you look at the entire picture, what you see better resembles a deliberate plan to make Trump vulnerable but to appear at first glance to be just a couple of innocent mistakes.
And when you add in how little information we’ve been given about the shooter — apparently the only person on Earth not on the internet — you begin to wonder if maybe a group of people at a different three-letter agency might have been working on a parallel track to find and encourage people to take action against Trump at the very same time he was kept vulnerable by Biden’s regime.
We know this happens because the FBI did it with Gretchen Whitmer: It recruited and urged disturbed individuals to buy weapons and put together a plan to kidnap her. In that case, the FBI wanted a story it could use to slime right-wingers. So it created the story itself.
What happens when an agency like that, or maybe even another three-letter agency, decides instead that it’s had enough of Trump? Some former FBI employees might even call it an “insurance policy.”
So who was the shooter talking to in the hours, days, and weeks ahead of the event? Who was he meeting with? Did anyone suggest or nudge or urge him to go to the Trump rally in Butler? Did anyone suggest or point out to him the building he eventually used? Was he told at any time not to worry about security?
The FBI told us almost immediately that while it couldn’t open the assassin’s phone, it knew he acted alone. That’s kind of strange, when you think about it. They told us almost immediately that they identified him by DNA, despite him having no criminal record. They also said they found explosives in his car. Why didn’t they just identify him by his plates or registration or next of kin? That’s pretty weird, too.
At some point, you just have to say enough with the lies. We saw what they did with the Russia hoax. We saw the Kavanaugh hoax. We saw the Covid origin hoax. We saw the Ukraine hoax, the stolen election, the J6 op, and then the armed Mar-a-Lago raid and the myriad illegal cases against Trump.
They called him Hitler. They said he was an existential threat. They said he would destroy democracy. They said he was the most dangerous person on Earth. Then they denied him security. They kept the rooftop open. They watched the shooter and did nothing. They kept Trump on that stage. And they didn’t do a damn thing until after he had been shot in the head.
And we’re all supposed to believe it was just an innocent oopsie?
END PASTE
https://thefederalist.com/2024/07/16/bidens-team-deliberately-kneecapped-trumps-security-to-allow-an-assassination-attempt/
‘Keystone Cops’ and You can’t make this stuff up – Secret Service ‘received intel on Iranian plot to assassinate Trump’ and increased security around him weeks before he was shot at rally
Looks like Trump was lucky that his Secret Service detail had “increased security around him” 😛 !?!
“. . . a roof with a similar slope . . . ”
Actually the slope of the roof with SS snipers is approximately twice that of the roof on which the attempted assassin stationed.
M J R:
I read that piece by Davis before you posted it. He’s wrong, in my opinion, and the whole thing is idle speculation of the type with which we’re quite familiar.
The incompetence, stupidity, and complacency on the part of agencies tasked to protect Trump is phenomenal, however. The complacency might also be a reflection of not caring that much to protect Trump.
Hey, if it was purposeful, they would have made sure Crooks completed the job.
Rep. Cory Mills thinks it through and the CNN-Democrat doesn’t like the direction his thinking takes us: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1813244738503594184?t=9CV-YvZ9AZ5CVYGBi_ewbA&s=19
My daughter and I are both military veterans – my daughter considerably more hard-core than I, merely because she was a two-hitch Marine. We both could be said to have served in non-traditional fields. Often, we were the only female in the unit, or only one of two or three. So we know all about what it’s like to be that female. Used to be a saying in the Air Force – “If you wanna f*ck with the eagles, you better be able to fly.” Put another way – “Girl, if you want to hang with the guys, and do the same job – you better be able to do the job, and get along with the guys!”
Mind you – there are women do have the capability to do the SS protection job; guarding children and spouses, especially in circumstances where needed to blend in, and a six-foot-plus human bollard wouldn’t do. Also to do research, scouting out venues – all that and other key jobs within the SS. But OMG, Cheatle needs to go. Making an excuse for not posting someone on the roof because it had a slope on it? What kind of amateur outfit is she running, there? I’m embarrassed for her, honestly.
That said – I don’t know anything about the three female SS agents pictured in the scramble with Trump, save that only one of them looks anything like a professional. The other two are … maybe administrative types, seconded at the last minute for the body-guard detail? Plump, out of shape, not practiced with their weapons or much of anything else. Just our guess, that they got landed with a detail that they were neither fit nor trained for.
Neo,
My basic premise is sheer, woke, incompetence. A setup to get Trump?No. However, given the vile rhetoric from the Ds the last 4 to 10 years, I’m not adverse to the idea of malignant neglect on the part of HS (God, just look at Mayorkas), and the SS. They are that evil.
There are been multiple mentions that the shooter was wearing a shirt that is sold/promoted by a social media influencer. I have never heard of the company, but I am not on social media . . . It seems a bit strange that the shooter, who ostensively did not Social media accounts, would have and wear that shirt to the Trump rally.
A setup to get Trump?No. However, given the vile rhetoric from the Ds the last 4 to 10 years, I’m not adverse to the idea of malignant neglect on the part of HS (God, just look at Mayorkas), and the SS. They are that evil.
–physicsguy
That’s where I land.
In Las Vegas the house isn’t conspiring against each player, but they do rig the odds.
The idiotic statement the roof the shooter was on, a less than 1 foot drop in 4 lineal feet is less than the one the Overwatch Team was on.
This what you get with picking positions out by LGBQXYZ.
She won’t go unless she is fired.
How is it that Cheatle, based in Washington, DC, actually had any input at all in how SS personnel at the venue in Pa would establish security for Trump?
She decided, from Washington, DC not to secure the roof that the gunman shot from?
Really?
And yes, Cheatle needs to go and should already have offered her resignation. It might happen with enough public outrage.
The buck stops with her … as long as there are no consequences.
I’m reminded of the bumbling sh*tshow I’m monitoring at Disney. Absolute incompetence. It’s not that they want to write and produce terrible shows, but the goal is DEI, not entertainment. They couldn’t create quality even if they wanted to.
You can mark it all down to incompetence if you want. But let’s say it’s difficult to distinguish incompetence from deliberate malice. Have you considered that the “incompetence” on display is a deliberate part of the malice?
Task & Purpose has a really great breakdown of the multiple security failures.
neo (4:59 pm) said: “[Davis’ piece] is idle speculation of the type with which we’re quite familiar.”
neo, I don’t think it’s “idle” speculation. I think Davis highlights a number of “dots” pretty accurately; the lines connecting the dots may be thought of as “speculation”, but at some point, the lines-‘n’-dots manage to form a disturbing picture.
I fully acknowledge the need to avoid jumping to conclusions, but at the same time let’s call a spade (the dots) a spade.
The best that can be said (I contend) is that what happened was *malignant* neglect. But that’s the best. They arranged a circumstance to make a shooting possible, and they even got this Crooks loser to step into it. (No internet footprint at all?? What 20 year old USA nerd has no internet footprint???)
neo goes on to add, “Hey, if it was purposeful, they would have made sure Crooks completed the job.”
Whoa!! A turn of the head a (fraction of a?) second later or millimeters to one side, and Crooks *would* have completed the job. What more could they have done? — unless you mean they’d have offered him more time to continue shooting. But at that point, Trump was already on the floor and the attempt would have failed.
Now neo does state plainly, “The incompetence, stupidity, and complacency on the part of agencies tasked to protect Trump is phenomenal, however. The complacency might also be a reflection of not caring that much to protect Trump.”
Needless to say, I agree with this. I just think it was malignant neglect rather than plain ol’ garden variety neglect. It wasn’t an oopsie or a string of oopsies. It was set up to happen, and only by the thinnest of chances, it didn’t.
Let us not underestimate the vicious, bilious hatred the swamp has for Trump. I think it is fully morally capable of engineering an assassination. Perhaps we (and a couple of others now) will agree to disagree on this, without it being dismissed as idle speculation.
I pretty much agree that what we witnessed was gross incompetence coupled with malign neglect and not a deliberate plot. But given all the attempts to destroy Trump in every possible way from this administration, I can completely understand why people would think that they would attempt to kill him if all else failed.
Cheatle absolutely should go. Her excuses are embarrassing and a disgrace to the people who put their lives on the line in their duties. The response by Mayorkas was, if anything, even more disgraceful. How could anyone have complete confidence in the people responsible for such an abject security failure that could have very easily plunged our country into chaos?
I’m going with overworked and understaffed field team, with poor coordination with local law enforcement. Maybe a dash of complacency, no nut jobs the last twenty times, so, yawn, it’s going to be another incidentless event.
Note to Cheatle. The building’s roof is sloped at its lowest point as well. Where does the left get these people?
“So it’s no surprise that the assassination attempt on Trump is not only already rife with conspiracy theories galore . . .” [Neo]
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, and yet, conspiracy theories have had a pretty good run over the last 8 years.
Trump claimed he was being surveiled and, IIRC, that his residence was bugged. He was proven correct.
The Steele dossier was proven to be disinformation fabricated and initiated by the Hillary Clinton campaign with collusion by members of government.
The Hunter Biden laptop was discounted as disinformation even by 51 high ranking government figures and the media, and then proven to be accurate in Hunter Biden’s own trial.
” . . . Crooks would be the last person conspirators would choose . . . ” [Neo]
This would be precisely the reason he might be chosen. This was the exact reason George W Bush claimed the sequence of all zeros was used as the nuclear code; because no one would expect that anyone would do that (See Spaceballs: 1-2-3-4 That’s the combination some idiot would have on their luggage.).
So my take is: Let us not be too quick to dismiss conspiracy theories. Let’s see how any evidence unfolds. Yes they can be the emotional ragings of an uninformed public, but sometimes they are not.
“In Las Vegas the house isn’t conspiring against each player, but they do rig the odds.” [Huxley @ 5:59]
I think that is a great parallel. Thank you.
“… And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof.” Said the female head of the agency whose members are sworn to literally take a bullet for the president.
Never forget that one man was killed while protecting his wife and daughter and two other men were seriously injured. The incompetence of the Secret Service had deadly consequences, even though the former president was (amazingly) not killed. Those who cannot handle the job of security should be fired.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist. We walked on the moon. JFK was shot by a lone gunman named Lee Harvey Oswald. 9/11 was not an inside job. None of this event makes any sense. To chalk it up to gross negligence, incompetence, or a series of unfortunate events defies logic.
The ordinary, untrained in security measures, people in the videos who were pointing at a guy crawling on the rooftop tells you that a normal, aware individual knew that something was wrong. To accept that the dozens(?) of LEOs, Secret Service agents, and others on the security detail couldn’t put the pieces together is beyond reason.
As Davis wrote in his subtitle: “They kept the rooftop open, watched the shooter, kept Trump on the stage, and didn’t do a damn thing until after he had been shot. And we’re supposed to believe it was an innocent oopsie?”
Think of what this administration has already done from the J6 political prisoners to calling concerned parents at school board meetings terrorists to the lawfare waged against Trump and his supporters, and this isn’t that big of a leap. Especially since, in their minds, they’re sparing us the next Hitler.
The left hates us. The left hates Trump. The left hates America. The left hates the US Constitution. The left hates freedom. Honestly, it’s that simple.
I just stumbled upon a comment over at Ann Althouse’s place, from one “Bill, Republic of Texas”, that’s pretty germane. Here it is, verbatim:
BEGIN PASTE
I’m not falling for anymore crazy Trump conspiracy theories.
I almost bought into the last one where the FBI was illegally wiretapping Trump associates during the campaign. And they even said the FBI lied to the court and forged documents to get the FISA warrants. They’re just crazy.
END PASTE
I was going to heap some praise on huxley’s comment, but T beat me to it. So I’ll just second what he said. I’ll file that one away in the memory banks and use it someday.
I think this is almost besides the point. Many of the most effective and dangerous of conspiracies are those that can be passed off as “merely” staggering incompetence, or systematically weakening a system you expect may be attacked and hope someone does. I can fully believe that the left under Biden’s ilk systematically starved Trump’s USSS detachment of resources and manpower to cover the situation and denuded them of the more experienced personnel with more contact with Trump in the hopes something like this would happen eventually. Of course I can also believe this happened through happenstance through a mixture of bias and incompetence. Which is damning enough as it is. I am not quite at the point of Windbag’s well done post, but I am in the zip code.
People need to get fired without golden parachutes, or even any parachutes whatsoever. Examples need to be made. I am also passed the point of believing this admin deserves the benefit of the doubt on most cases.
“Many of the most effective and dangerous of conspiracies are those that can be passed off as “merely” staggering incompetence,” [Turtler @ 7L44]
You reminded me of a conversation Johnny Carson had with Alfred Hitchcock. Carson asked Hitchcock if he thought that the perfect crime would ever be committed. Hitchcock responded that the perfect crime is committed every day. He explained that the perfect crime is not an unsolvable crime, but a crime that no one recognizes as a crime in the first place.
As you point out, so too, conspiracies.
I am reserving opinion until we know more about the loon’s contacts and movements. Unfortunately, the info we need might end up with Epstein recordings and the Lost Ark. But I am leaning towards Dr. Jill. Also if Trump somehow gets in Cheatle probably gets the boot before this happened anyway.
No one resigned over the Afghanistan fiasco. Cheatle hanging on to her job after this grossly incompetent performance by her department is standard.
Janet Reno “took responsibility” for Waco and remained AG for years.
To see how this cluster-fook could have happened, all you have to do is to look at the kind of unqualified, incompetent, lying, arrogant, whackjob appointees–take a look at some of their answers and their demeanor when they are called to testify before Congressional committees–that the Biden Administration has put into office.
No those were cops from columbus milwaukee cops know not to bother
Administrations with a lot of resignations and firings get tagged “chaotic,” but the results of administrations where nobody resigns or is fired can be much worse. When everybody is taken care of and made comfortable regardless of how incompetent they are, it’s a recipe for disaster.
Turtler said: “I can fully believe that the left under Biden’s ilk systematically starved Trump’s USSS detachment of resources and manpower to cover the situation and denuded them of the more experienced personnel with more contact with Trump in the hopes something like this would happen eventually.”
Exactly. Remember that this is the same group that has denied RFK Secret Service protection. I’m no fan of the Kennedys, but withholding security for him is evil. There is no gutter vile or low enough that lefties won’t crawl under to achieve their goals.
T:
Those were not conspiracy theories. The debunking of the Hunter laptop, for example, was obviously a conspiracy theory from the start. The evidence supported its authenticity. Same for the COVID lab leak theory. The evidence was pretty strong for it, almost from the start.
Evidence is important to me.
@ Coral Jeffries
The t-shirt was from a youtube channel for gun enthusiasts called “Demolition Ranch.” The shooter was wearing the shirt in two pictures. I don’t know if he was wearing it on Saturday. You can access the channel without going through social media.
“Evidence is important to me.” [Neo @ 9:08]
“Let’s see how any evidence unfolds.” [T@ 7:03]
So it seems that we agree.
I typically never assume malice when incompetence is a sufficient explanation. But man, the incompetence is staggering.
The FBI and DOJ should not be anywhere close to ANY evidence. We’ve watched them lie/distort/hide evidence for years.
Congress needs to appoint a select committee to investigate the circumstances leading up to and including the attempted assassination.
She’s not going to resign because she knows she’s gone come January anyway.
The more probabilities leading not in random directions but to single “thing”; a thing of immense value to an entity which can be seen, rightly or not, to have influence over the probabilities, the less likely it will be seen as an “accident”. How are we doing so far?
We shouldn’t feel bad about Kimberly Cheatle losing her job. I hear that there are a number of openings for female armorers on movie sets.
Neo: “The complacency might also be a reflection of not caring that much to protect Trump.”
This is almost exactly right, except for “might.” I also don’t buy into the conspiracy theory, but the fact that they sent the inexperienced B team to operate security at this event, at an open air venue two days before the convention, has no other explanation. They didn’t try to assassinate Trump, but they didn’t try very hard to prevent it. I say “they” because I’m not exactly sure who made these decisions, but someone did, and Cheatle bears responsibility. Maybe Mayorkas as well.
Several comments:
1. “Biden” ADAMANTLY denied withholding weapons and materiel re-supplies to Israel. Heh
2. “Biden” categorized” the Afghan DEBACLE as a complete success. (He did not hesitate, on the other hand, to blame Trump for it. Go figger….)
3. “Biden” keeps on telling us the border is “secure”. Sure…
4. “Biden” never stops insisting that the economy is robust. (Just in case there might be any doubts.)
5. ETC.
6. Most relevantly, WRT January 6, there were those law enforcement officers—and supervisors, especially—along with ancillary participants and instigators, who were IN ON THE PLOT…and there were those who weren’t and who thus didn’t have a clue, asked for instructions and were kept waiting. Were stonewalled. Were left dangling. Were NOT informed.
It’s entirely believable—since this is already the MO—that something similar happened in Pennsylvania.
There were those who knew and those who didn’t, those who did not receive exact instructions and who were thus misled, misinformed, WERE LEFT DANGLING.
WERE LIED TO.
(Well, we’re all being lied to, 24/7.)
As for the SS detachment, maybe they weren’t “beefed up” because SOMEONE in charge KNEW that there would be absolutely nothing left on that stage to protect. NOTHING left to save. NOTHING left to drag away…ALIVE….
As for the question, WTF was Trump ALLOWED to be on that stage once a threat was encountered…well…
…OMMV.
What Turtler and rjb1 said – deliberate shorting of SS staff, in the hopes that a random nutter would take the opportunity.
“Thou shalt not kill …
But need not strive,
Officiously, to keep alive.”
Seemed to be a classic case of Keystone Cops even before it started.
Conspiracy Theories? Yeah, got some of those – plenty of False Flags:
• Looked like Trump staged the assassination and the SS detail helped by adding blood when they had him down out of view.
• I thought it was magnificently staged. It was professionally done. It almost looked real.
• Knowing Trump & the MAGA mob the death and injuries were a ‘small price’. It doesn’t matter to Trump – he doesn’t cares if people die as long as he gets elected.
• I think that he walked away alive, just a scratch on his ear. Behind the scenes that was all fabricated. They put a little scratch on his ear, threw a little blood on his face.
• Never shot off the corner of his ear. That was all done by the people hanging around him.
• To me it looks like it was planned. Bless that soul for dying for this cause. I am so sorry for that person’s family.
Just another Conspiracy Theory though…IMHO. 😉
Seems like most of the disagreement here hinges on resistance to the use of the term “conspiracy.” However, IMO, if the administration, including leadership at the SS, secretly decided to cut corners with Trump’s security, with the purpose somewhere in mind that it would materially compromise his actual safety at these events, that’s a conspiracy. It certainly doesn’t require that they actually arranged for Crooks be there, talking his shots, in order to justify the use of the term.
To me, there appears to be plenty of reason to believe that the PTB may in fact have given Trump a substandard level of protection because they secretly harbored a desire to see someone take a shot at him. First, the protection at the Butler rally was not merely deficient, but rather was so fundamentally bad that it’s hard to chalk it up to mere incompetence. Second, the excuse given about the sloped roof makes no sense and is an obvious lie. It cannot possibly be the case that they didn’t put someone on that roof because the degree of pitch made it unacceptably dangerous. So they haven’t told us the real reason– and why is that? It’s fair to infer that the real reason they left the roof unsecured was so damning that it was better to tell an obvious lie than to reveal it.
Third, the administration withheld SS protection for RFK for months; and a group of dems introduced legislation to cut off all SS protection to Trump if he goes to prison (which they also openly advocate). These things reveal a mindset in which denial of SS protection to political opponents is an acceptable exercise of power.
Keep in mind that the entire premise of the SS is that there are people out there with the means and motives to try to kill presidents and presidential candidates. That such people are out there is a complete given. It’s the role of the SS to deny such people the opportunity to kill. If, for malicious reasons, the folks in charge decide not to take all reasonable measures to eliminate the opportunity for an assassination of a reviled opponent like Trump, it’s not EXACTLY like they tried to kill him themselves, but it’s close enough for me.
Once is happenstance, twice coincident, three times is enemy action. Awful lot of ducks lines up for this.
This is a slippery slope.
See what I did there?
“ Crooks would be the last person conspirators would choose”
I think their choices are limited. No one with a brain would think they are going to live. To any pro it was a suicide mission. Two shooters would mean conspiracy and that story would never end. So lone wolf it is. He apparently was a regular at a 200 yard shooting range.
Rangefinder
Er?!?!
Sniper identified gunman acting suspiciously checking his cell phone and a rangefinder at rally when they took photo
Ditto on the Er?!?!
Scrape, above, is exactly right on all counts.
I have said for a good many years that the reason there are conspiracy theories is that there are conspiracies. Trump’s near-assassination, taken in its entirety, is almost certainly NOT the kind of thing that could have happened as an incidental side-effect of a few things accidentally–and coincidentally–going awry. It prompts asking the question, “Are these people deep-level conspirators, or are they just VERY GOOD opportunists?” In this regard, I suggest we all recall Rahm Emmanuel’s statement, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”
What Emmanuel’s policy-framing implies, of course, is that everyone on his side of the so-to-speak “fence” must be ready at all times to respond to all things in ways that further their own positions, policies, and–hence–powers. If that does not amount to being a conspiracy, then there is no such thing as a conspiracy.
Also, and kind of by-the-way, I am VERY tired of seeing acronyms all over the place–and in this case, I refer to the use of “SS.” Why not just say or write “Secret Service”? This is partly because, to anyone with a decent historical knowledge, the SS was a particular, and unforgettably named, arm of the German Nazi power structure circum the mid-late 1930s and early 1940s Germany.
Commenting prior to six am local time leads to excessive typos.
The organizational imperative in DEI world is to provide patronage to regime pets. Competently executing an agency’s mission is not a priority.
This was the “pretense of protection” and, if something bad happened, well, c’est la vie.
Neo, I would have to disagree with your assertion that Crooks would be the last person the conspirators (aka the FBI) would recruit. You’re thinking like those of us here who see a weak puny introvert and think this would be the last person you’d choose for an operation like this.
You have to think like our elite Democrat overlords, many of whom saw themselves as similar outcasts growing up. From their perspective, this kid was the PERFECT choice to kill the big, bad, evil, fascist orange man. Not only would trump supporters have to experience the sadness and anger and losing their candidate right before an election, but they would experience exquisite humiliation that this (in their minds) “loser” was the cause. Imagine the emotions you would have felt at seeing this gangly kid on the cover of Time magazine named as their “man” of the year–that would have been the cherry on top for those potential conspirators, and the rest of the left would have reveled in it (for the rest of our lives).
Bauxite said: “I typically never assume malice when incompetence is a sufficient explanation. But man, the incompetence is staggering.”
I agree. But in this case the incompetence is overwhelmingly insufficient to explain:
1) how this could happen
2) why this level of incompetence hasn’t resulted in similar events
If it’s random incompetence, the odds of a similar event are not just favorable, but obligatory. When the sniper pointed his weapon at the LEO, that was grounds for the Secret Service to eliminate him. They didn’t. Why not? Who withheld permission or commanded them to stand down in the face of a lethal threat? Too many loose threads and cracks to fall through for this to be coincidence. I’m not saying that it was orchestrated, but the stage was set, whether through apathy or malice. This was not the work of people who are committed to the task.
For six years cheattle was part of dick cheneys security detail hmm
Service Director Kimberly Cheatle was the choice of President Jill Biden. That tells you all you need to know.
neo on July 16, 2024 at 9:08 pm said:
T:
Those were not conspiracy theories. The debunking of the Hunter laptop, for example, was obviously a conspiracy theory from the start. The evidence supported its authenticity. Same for the COVID lab leak theory. The evidence was pretty strong for it, almost from the start.
Evidence is important to me.
_______
I am afraid you have fallen into the vogue of saying “conspiracy theory” as if that meant “something false”, “something to be dismissed”. Those were, in fact, conspiracy theories which proved true.
So far, we just don’t yet know. But it is just as wrong to dismiss concerns about what is, prima facie, an implausible explanation, as to embrace any alternative. Again, we don’t know. And unless Trump wins, we never will. One thing I am convinced of is that this administration will never allow an honest investigation.
I would say informed conjecture, based on previous practices, now as that line, none dare care it treason, if treason doth prosper’ so we wouldn’t likely ever get a resolution,
phillip reines, susan rice, michael Morell were enablers of similar plots,
Might anyone know of the failed assassin’s purported “Radio Silence” (i.e., Internet Silence)…
…and—more importantly—how far back (i.e., “when”) did it actually begin?
what is that alinsky line about a tactic being affective, until it isnt, when it fails like with fico, most recently, a possible hit on orban, a week back, attacks on populist candidates in germany uk and france,
btw, Macron seems to be in denial, about the scale of his loss of influence or so he has relayed to Attal,
How many things which the Left and the MSM labeled as “conspiracy theories” have turned out to be actual conspiracies-i.e. two or more people, in agreement and working together, behind the scenes, to achieve some nefarious end?
A lot.
Of the many things were were told by the Democrats and the MSM that were just “conspiracy theories,” the example which comes to mind is the widely publicized statement by “51 former high ranking intelligence officials” attesting to the fact that the “supposed” incriminating information on Hunter Biden’s laptop was just “Russian disinformation.”
Turns out, it was legit, and no such thing.
Thus, when I’m told that, to imagine that the Trump assassination attempt was a setup, is to believe in a wild, and utterly far-fetched conspiracy theory, I’m sorry, but I’m of the “if it walks like a duck” school, and I see a whole lotta ducks walking around, leaving a stinking mess of white shit all over the place, and setting up quite a racket.
Far too many lapses and “coinkydinks” here.
From Ann Althouse (althouse.blogspot.com, posted7/17/24 @ 6:48 am):
So Althouse sets the stage for the conclusion that “conspiracy” actually satisfies Occam’s Razor.
I do think, however, that Huxley above (@ 5:59 pm) has a good take on this that bears repeating; that in Vegas, the house doesn’t conspire against an individual player, but it has no problem rigging the odds.
Shall we call this a “soft conspiracy” of sorts that sets a stage and then just allows events to take place? A system of referent power, which Salena Zito discusses way back in 2013:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/05/19/obamas_incredible_referent_power_118468.html
The problem that I, and I suspect most people, have is those doing the investigating are the same people/agencies that the conspiracy theory identifies as the perpretrators (See Eeyore @ 11:03 am, above). Whether that theory is accurate or not, it creates a fundamental Catch 22: The “perpretators” investigate themselves and conclude no underlying conspiracy which then becomes part of the conspiracy itself.
And, sadly, this all fits hand-in-glove with Huxley’s observation about rigging the odds, Zito’s discussion of referent power, and Althouse’s observation above.
Hopefull the evidence about July 13th will be more conclusive than we expect.
“I typically never assume malice when incompetence is a sufficient explanation. But man, the incompetence is staggering.”
Going off a bit to the side. The idea of a highly skilled professional bureaucracy replacing political cronies to run the government was a core belief brought to us by Wilson and the early progressives, better than a century ago. I think that we are seeing with the FJB Administration the end result of this – a highly politicized often incompetent bureaucracy. A guy can keep his job there, while openly stealing luggage, by wearing a dress and makeup. Indeed, the easiest way for guys to cover for their incompetence is just that – wearing dresses. Or being Black. Etc.
The intersection that intruded into my thoughts just now is the recent demise of Chevron Deference. It was built on the assumption of agency expertise. But how can it be maintained, when the bureaucrats in the agency are both highly political and incompetent? No wonder the Bump Stock ban fell, when it was implemented in response to orders by President FJB. It wasn’t based on agency expertise, but political pandering, and, thus, was in the prevue of the Legislative, not Executive, branch.
My point here is that the FJB Administration may have ushered in the beginning of the end of the Progressive Era, by their gross incompetence, while significantly politicizing the entire system. Agency after agency is shown to be ever more incompetent as their top management has become ever more politicized and corrupt.
There are calls by Neo and others to see where the evidence leads. The problem is that we can’t trust any of the evidence. When we have Cheatle’s excuse for not securing the roof be basically, “I’m now telling such a gargantuan and absurd lie so that you realize I’m lying, and I know you realize I’m lying, and I don’t care, and I know you know I don’t care.”
The FBI has jurisdiction to investigate this matter? We have more of a chance of getting real information from 4Chan than from the government and the press. We are living through the Era of Lies and Disinformation.
We will never know what really happened. People are still arguing about JFK’s assassination over 60 years later.
On top of all the other conveniences for people who would want Trump gone is the fact that he wasn’t officially on the ballot yet and had not announced his Veep. Vance is making all the right people lose their minds, which means he’s become assassination insurance overnight.
If it had gone off as planned (by one person or many), it’s quite likely some neocon warmonger like Haley could have been nominated. And now the Biden Administration has claimed that Iran had a plot to kill Trump… a good excuse to go to war with Iran, get everyone to rally ’round the flag had they been able to pin the assassination on them. At that point, it’s immaterial who’s President if Nikki Haley were the Republican nominee.
Again, all idle speculation, but there has been an absolute breakdown in how things are supposed to work. The US Secret Service failed as badly as it’s possible for them to fail. There is literally no worse way for them to fail. If nothing else, it’s a campaign slogan… “Biden runs the country as well as he runs the Secret Service.”
Meanwhile, Trump, who seems to have survived by the grace of God and nothing less is hitting it out of the park over and over since Saturday. His behavior at the scene of the shooting, picking Vance, claiming to rewrite his speech (let’s see how that goes), and leaking a phone call (with plausible deniability) that he’s reaching out to RFK, Jr. and supporting his causes. He’s doing everything right for a change.
He’s a smart guy who made a lot of mistakes the first time around and I have a feeling that this presages the fact that he’s learned the lessons he needs to learn.
His second term will be transformative.
The problem here is that virtually every part of our government has been subverted/taken over by leftists, ideology, ambition, and careerism, same with our educational institutions and the Academy, the people and organizations which together make up the MSM have–time and time again–proven that they are nothing but liars and propagandists, and the COVID mess has very conclusively demonstrated that we cannot even trust our supposedly “objective,” medical/scientific “experts”–virtually everyone and every organization has been parasitized by the Left and and corrupted.
Somewhere, Diogenes is wandering around, eternally, with his lamp, trying to find an honest man.
So, when someone from one of these organizations tells us that they’ve examined an issue, and are telling us the objective and complete truth of of the matter, you’d have to be a very unwary fool to give what they say much credence.
Whatever the explanation emanating out of this leftist monolith, it cannot be trusted to be the truth, or, perhaps, anywhere even close to the truth.
If they tell you it’s “X” it’s very probably actually “Y,” if they tell you someone or some organization is thinking about or is doing something nefarious–its all projection–and it is these Leftists and their organizations which are thinking about or doing something nefarious.
So–as with many other such incidents over the last few decades, if not going back many decades earlier–I doubt if we will ever have any real certainty that we have found out the actual truth about this attempted assassination.
I’ve forgotten where I read this, but I thought it was a pretty good joke(?):
“The Secret Service has failed, but we don’t yet know whether they failed to protect Trump, or failed to kill him.”
Setting aside Kate’s excellent point about Afghanistan; why should Cheatle remain in her position?
The last time the USSS failed anything like this was 4 decades ago, and that was the wrong guy at the right place at the right time. The last time someone with forethought and planning succeeded was 6 decades ago. That’s how few times the USSS utterly fail to do the job of protecting VIPs. People should lose their job for this, and she should at least make her resignation available. The only valid argument would be to oversee the investigation then resign, and frankly, she shouldn’t be in the position to do that job either.
There is no other reason that the Regime inadequately supplied Trump with secret service or completely denied RFK jr other then they wanted to be rid of those meddlesome competitors.