Why are so many Democrats opposed to the SAVE Act?
Apparently they want illegal aliens to be able to vote. Only five Democrats joined the Republicans to vote for the Act:
In total, 216 Republicans and five Democrats voted to pass the bill, while 198 Democrats voted against the measure.
In May, Representative Chip Roy, a Texas Republican, introduced the SAVE Act, which would require those registering to vote to provide documentary proof of United States citizenship. It is already illegal for noncitizens to register to vote or to vote in federal elections.
The bill had 104 Republican co-sponsors, including top House Republicans such as House Majority Leader Steve Scalise of Louisiana, Majority Whip Tom Emmer of Minnesota, Republican Conference Chair Elise Stefanik of New York, and Republican Policy Committee Chair Gary Palmer of Alabama.
The bill should have passed unanimously, of course. The five who voted for it were Henry Cuellar of Texas, Don Davis of North Caroina, Jared Golden of Maine, Vicente Gonzalez Jr. of Texas, and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez of Washington.
Here’s the reason Democrats give for opposing the bill:
“A REAL ID drivers’ license, a Tribal ID, or a military ID would be unacceptable unless coupled with additional documentation, such as a birth certificate or an extract from a birth record that proves the applicant was born in the United States,” Clark wrote. “This would be an extreme burden for countless Americans, including military voters, Native voters, people who have changed their names (including tens of millions of American women), the elderly, the young, the poor, and naturalized citizens.”
An “extreme burden”? Give me a break. Naturalized citizens can’t prove they’re citizens? Married women can’t prove it’s their birth certificate? Absurd. How do all these people get passports? This “extreme burden” is okay for a passport? It’s the same old Democrat argument that millions of Americans are somehow incapable of getting proper ID, at least when it comes to voting.
And note how many supposedly moderate Democrats go along with this.
If you have the Real ID you had to supply one of these documents:
State Issued Birth Certificate
Unexpired U.S. Passport
Unexpired Permanent Resident Card
Unexpired Employment Authorization Card
Naturalization Certificate
Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240)
So if you have a Real ID it is not a burden at all to have one of the other documents.
Were I in a hypothetical conversation with one of these people, I wouldn’t even think of engaging them on the merits of their rationale(s).
I would not waste my time countering their arguments, because that is what they want me doing: wrapping myself around their axle and playing their game, part of which is taking their arguments — and them — seriously, thereby avoiding the real issue.
To argue back is to accept their framing. No, I prefer the real framing, which neo puts forth very succinctly, “Apparently they want illegal aliens to be able to vote” — except I’d omit the word “Apparently”. I’d plainly state that I know what you’re doing, and I know that you know what you’re doing, so let’s cut the crappe.
Why do you think they oppose?
There isn’t a single person in America who actually believes that minority and other citizens are too stupid to get the needed ID. Democrats simply want to cheat.
This really is an in-your-face move on the part of the Democrats.
**We’ve** known for years that this was their plan, but until now they’ve been able to maintain plausible deniability with the general public. Now, with immigration and election integrity the two biggest issues in this election, they decide to give up all appearances and lay their cards on the table.
They didn’t have to do this. The Democrats could have voted for it overwhelmingly and let it die in a Senate committee. But they went on record. It’s like they know this coming election is not in doubt. Kudos to Mike Johnson for getting this to the floor with such a tiny majority. Now we all know too.
Voting fraud so doesn’t happen. In fact, it so doesn’t happen Democrats will do anything to prevent proving it so doesn’t happen.
The Democrat, as a party, went extinct around 2008. They were replaced by the America hating hard left/ marxists.
Seems to me if you have a Real ID, which required you to prove citizenship, you won’t need anything else to vote. To get the ID you already provided proof of citizenship. Same for a U.S. passport.
Jeff Jackson, D-NC, voted against this act. He’s running for Attorney General in NC. An amendment restricting voting to US citizens is on the November ballot here. Voters widely support it. Jackson made a political mistake, I think.
Some years back, there was a “liberal” commenter, who is still around but not at this blog, who stated that rigorous ID check was necessary for the hoi polloi to be let into a public meeting with their Congressman, but elsewhere stated that for voting in state or national elections, rigorous ID check was not necessary etc. Not to mention being raacist…..
The state of Texas requires a birth certificate to obtain or renew a driver’s license. Once your birth certificate is scanned into the system, you don’t need to present it again.
I had to produce a birth certificate to get a driver’s license when I lived in Connecticut. I produced the one I’d had since birth, an old, old photo of a type no longer in use anywhere in the late 1980s. I had used it to get my passport. This was not good enough for CT. I had to write to my place of birth and get a new one with a raised seal on it.
They just want numbers of people who can be registered with or without their knowledge, especially people who are unlikely to actually vote, to provide cover for fraud.
Ditto i had to get my naturalizatiib certificate from the bank to get the drivers license my past port had expired
Democrats are the enemy. They will destroy the country for votes.
Dems are right on this issue.
To get a copy of a Birth Certificate does take some effort. You must find the contact of the Vital Records Department for the county you were born. You have to download and fill out a form. You must be able to pay for the copy (From $9 in Fl, to $ 40 in N.Y.) Some people have a difficult time forwarding $$ to another state. Most of those who have that problem vote Blue.
IMO, a larger portion of Red voters are willing to go through that effort than do Blue voters.
Golly William [8:27 pm].
All that looks about as difficult as falling downstairs.
I do agree that most people who have a problem with basic documentation indeed do vote Blue.
@William:Dems are right on this issue.
They are wrong, and Clark is lying about the requirements. People really need to read the text and not read what people say ABOUT the text.
You don’t have to present your birth certificate. A REAL ID or a passport are sufficient, there are many other documents allowed, and the states are free to make up other ones including online ones.
Any US citizen who has been employed in the last 50 years has the necessary documents at hand and has had to show them to that employer already.
But there is the state process loophole, the blue states will come up with a fake process.
Examples of sufficient documentation of citizenship from the text of the bill that are not birth certificates:
(1) A form of identification issued consistent with the requirements of the REAL ID Act of 2005 that indicates the applicant is a citizen of the United States.
(2) A valid United States passport.
(3) The applicant’s official United States military identification card, together with a United States military record of service showing that the applicant’s place of birth was in the United States.
(4) A valid government-issued photo identification card issued by a Federal, State or Tribal government showing that the applicant’s place of birth was in the United States.
Friend was adopted here in California.
Home birth,1960’s no records, recently found relatives through dna , one of the ancestors sites.
Went through elementary, middle, and high school here. Has yearbooks with her picture and high school diploma. Was married, had 3 children and divorced here.
Drivers license for over 20 years until she moved back east for 15 years or so.
Came back to California, cannot get real id because no birth certificate, no more records of previous drivers license(or some DMV red tape).
Has been back here for five years and has yet to find a solution.
@fullmoon:Has been back here for five years and has yet to find a solution.
Never had a job, never crossed the US border? US citizens have to prove citizenship just to work… I’m skeptical. You’d only know what you’d been told, of course, and I don’t doubt you are being accurate about what you were told. But if there are genuine, vanishingly rare cases like these they can be accommodated without also accommodating wholesale voter fraud.
In her case, the SAVE Act allows “a final adoption decree showing the applicant’s name and that the applicant’s place of birth was in the United States”, surely California has not lost all its 1960s adoption decree records.
I assume because of Motor Voter, and possibly Read ID, when I got my Texas DL, I had to provide my birth certificate. Both of my kids had to do so as well when they got their DLs.
My wife had to provide birth certificate and marriage license, because her last name on her out of state DL didn’t match the one on her birth certificate. So there’s a slightly higher burden for any married person who changed their last name.
@David:I assume because of Motor Voter, and possibly Read ID, when I got my Texas DL, I had to provide my birth certificate. Both of my kids had to do so as well when they got their DLs.
Which means all of you can just use your Texas DLs to register to vote and not worry about your birth certificates. Which you all have anyway.
I see the Dem lies are having their desired effect and people are not reading for themselves what the requirements actually would be…
Sorry if this comes across as pedantic, but it is not just illegal aliens who are not entitled to vote. Legal aliens are also noncitizens and not entitled to vote, either. No doubt the Democrats entitled to harvest millions of votes from both groups, mostly without the participation of the supposed “voters” themselves.
Short version 1: Anything and everything is permitted—including destroying the country—as long as it prevents that orange-haired MAGA-Nazi from winning the election.
Short version 2: Anything and everything is permitted—including destroying the country—as long as it enables the Democratic Party to gain TOTAL power and PERMANENT control over the country it so fervently wishes to destroy.
Correlative 1: Insofar as the Law—and the Constitution—are used to protect Trump and stymie the Democratic Party’s quest for TOTAL POWER FOREVER, therefore the Law—and the Constitution—are the Enemies of the People.
Correlative 2: Insofar as SCOTUS, as it is currently constituted, willfully implements the Law—and the Constitution—therefore SCOTUS is the Enemy of the People…and MUST be dealt with accordingly.
Any questions?
A Real ID driver’s license should be sufficient.
Renewed my DL here in Hawaii a few years ago and even though I have had a Hawaii DL for over 40 years, I was told to bring my birth certificate under the new Real ID requirements. Brought it and my passport but still had to go BACK home to get my Marriage Certificate since the name was different from that on the BC. 90 minutes in traffic! The lovely young lady at the counter kept my place in line. Now that’s Aloha.
What the Democrats are doing makes perfect sense if you stop to think about who their constituents are: single women, immigrants (legal or not), LGBT, refugees, government employee unions, wealthy leftists, etc. etc.
The following are NOT Democrat constituencies: married men, married women, single heterosexual men. I’d add private sector union members, but there aren’t that many of them.
The Democrats are simply going where they perceive their voters are, legality or the good of the country be damned. They wrote off the groups I mentioned that are now solidly in the GOP column, so what’s in their interest as far as they see it is to flood the country with foreigners from the global south in a sort Camp of the Saints moment, scratch the scab of racial and ethnic friction, pit women and men against one another, and encourage sexual deviancy and genital mutilation.
Did I miss anything?
“Why do you think they oppose?”
Given the numerous rumors I’ve been hearing about illegal aliens being registered to vote by the Feds, I can make a guess…
Let’s please stop it with states being red or blue. Who decided this definition, and why? Because we are stupid? Can’t say Left or Right?
I remind you that RED is the color of Marxist communism. See the flag of communist China, for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg
yes they pulled that switcharoo, right before 2000, blue was navy and tory colors,
When TX required birth certificates for drivers’ licenses, I called the town in CT where I was born, and found out what I needed to do to get a copy of my birth certificate.
I sent a check by regular US mail- not certified- and nine days later my birth certificate arrived. Good service from both USPS and the town clerk in CT.
“In her case, the SAVE Act allows “a final adoption decree showing the applicant’s name and that the applicant’s place of birth was in the United States”, surely California has not lost all its 1960s adoption decree records.”
LOL. In the real world,in the 1960’s, plenty of unwed mothers had babies and gave them to friends or relatives. No records involved.
No doubt more difficult today.
I made phone caall, wrote letters and went so far as to ask Redditors for advice. Plenty of others have the same problem, not only in California.
Any realistic advice will be greatly appreciated.
I can speak, with some authority, about this.
When I moved from SC to OH, I – eventually – had to change my drivers license. I didn’t anticipate any real difficulty, as I had my passport AND my SC drivers license.
However, in the SC license, it had been mid-coded. I had been, for 10 years, marked as a MALE.
I am by birth, a FEMALE.
So, the clerk kindly pointed out that I needed to bring BOTH an official copy of my birth certificate, and my marriage certificate, and try again.
It took several days, as I had to go in person to the county birth records for the certificate – which cost $34 a copy. The marriage certificate was easier, as the guy I reached at the records office was able to send a copy quickly – no charge.
So, altogether, about 3 days to get it all done.
I must mention that many of the documents were hard to get, as I am 73, and have been married for 50 years. Over time, and with many moves to different cities and states, the originals had been mislaid.
But, still possible. I do think that it would be a great project for some high school (or, even middle school) kids to initiate – the reconciliation of birth and death records. That, alone, would eliminate much of the easy use of dead infants to steal their birth record, and create an “Instant Citizen”.
It would mean that actual PEOPLE (not bots, not mass registrations of non-existent people) would have to go through the process.
The days when people could not prove their identity are pretty much gone. At SOME point, just about everyone is in contact with official government, and can lay their hands on VERIFIABLE records. Hell, even the Amish register their kids’ birth, have them attend school, and register their marriages!
Yeah, there may be some fringe nuts who completely go off the grid, and whose families there is no record of.
Those guys aren’t going to vote anyway.