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The debate tonight

The New Neo Posted on by

Here’s a thread to discuss it.

I fear I may be repeating myself – but I can’t stand debates. They make me a combination of nervous and angry as well as frustrated. Is a lot riding on this one? Biden’s supporters would never vote for Trump, and Trump’s would never vote for Biden. That said, there are the usual people in the middle who could be swayed. They tend to tip the balance of the voting in one direction or the other.

The expectations for Biden are so low that it’s easy to say he’ll probably exceed them. Then again, I don’t think the expectations are sky-high for Trump, either. I can’t put myself in the shoes of an “undecided,” so even if I were to watch the debate – which I might not – it would be hard for me to guess how that group would see it.

One interesting point is that this is a very rare situation – and no, it’s not just the advanced age of the two participants. It’s that they both have already served one term as president.

One of the things to watch is how the MSM will favor Biden, both during the debate via the moderators, and after the debate via the coverage.

Comments

The debate tonight — 63 Comments

  1. The debate won’t influence the ballot harvesters, of course, or the blue-precinct election officials who’ll be selectively applying standards in which ballots get counted, or the courts which will refuse to intervene before or after the fact. Debates have been theater for a long time, but increasingly so is the Presidential election.

    We have a media that pretends to be objective, an electoral system that pretends to fairly count our votes, a court system that pretends to be impartial, a Congress that pretends to represent us, an executive branch that pretends not to make up its own laws. The taxes and spending are very real, of course, as are the deaths in our wars of choice, and the jail time and economic costs for those who threaten to change anything.

    All these things work together to send us a message: recognize our masters. Top Men are going to run things for our benefit (and at our expense). Rules are for little people and for big people who don’t go along to get along.

  2. I’ll be relying on two or three liveblogs until I fall asleep, which will be before the event ends.

  4. I think I’ve watched at least some of all the debates, back to Nixon-Kennedy. This one will be very interesting because Trump has to be quick on his feet tonight. If he can handle the hostile “moderators” then it should be good for him.

    I was yelling at the TV when Ford blew his chance by saying some pap about eastern Europe. I was equally angry at Romney when he allowed Obama’s many errors to stand uncorrected.

  5. Won’t watch it, never watch debates or speeches. My wife will though.

    And in other news – KINKY is dead.

  6. yes it was some mixup over the Helsinki accords during detente or something, this was satirized rather unmercifully in that SNL sketch I referenced earlier,

  7. The bias in the questions is likely to be the most interesting issue, as well as watching Biden’s drugs wear off.
    Maybe some new Trump insults that are spot on without being a turnoff to the undecided.
    Will find out more tomorrow in the many reports I expect to read; maybe see some highlights on X.

  8. I read on Ace that there’ll be a few seconds delay. We paranoids there were guessing that they’ll just cut any Joe moments. Remember, no one is allowed to show, or even discuss it.

  9. it really becomes absurd like the python sketch about party contests, in this case the very looney party vs the sensible party, they will try to gaslight us about the border, about the two or three wars we’re engaged in or may drift into, the inflation the crime, the weaponization against law abiding citizens, the jihad against earnest Christian and Jews, etc,

  10. Trump’s reportedly been having some successful appearances with hostile interviewers. So hopefully he won’t come across as thin-skinned tonight. I’m expecting some barbs aimed at Biden. But hopefully they’ll be of the sort that don’t come across as mean-spirited, while also doing a good job of getting under Biden’s skin.

  11. So Joe is going to get some PEDs before the debate, the two moderators are known Trump haters, the questions have probably been disclosed to the Biden camp and his answers rehearsed ad nauseum. Oh, and he’ll probably be wearing a wire so his handlers can make sure he stays on script.

    All that, and they still feel the need for a 7 second delay?

  12. “I read on Ace that there’ll be a few seconds delay”

    I think if I were running the broadcast, I would do the same. There’s always the possibility that Biden will want to flash his “tough guy” credentials and utter some profanities live on the air. Might want to bleep something like that out.

  14. This phony debate is nauseating. The “moderators” are CNN employees, one of whom, Jake Tapper, has called Trump a Hitler. That Trump will have to endure CNN hostility in a so-called debate is testimony to his psychological vigor. Biden, our POTUS, has been ensconced at Camp David for a week, getting prepped by 16 (!) coaches.

    Too bad there are not any drug tests to be had. Biden will be full of Adderall- like drugs(used for ADHD in kids) and likely drugs that have helped Alzheimers’ patients.

    The degradation of the American Republic is before us. Democrats are not ever to be trusted; who gave us the Steele-Russia “dossier”? Why, Hillary and the DNC.

  15. I haven’t watched a debate since Mitt Romney let Candy Crowley lie like that and said nothing. And as bad as not letting her do it in the debate, Mitt wasn’t pissed enough to have her sanctioned for it. Not even, CBS/Candy Crowley not allowed to participate in Presidential Debates.

    Debates are bad generally and have been long before Candy Crowley made it about the moderators. But the 2016 and 2020 debates have since shown that the debate is far less about the answers of the candidates, and much more about the questions asked by the moderators. Why ask tough questions about rising crime, higher inflation, unsecured borders, and the Afghanistan pull out, when you can ask questions about saving Democracy by prosecuting your political rivals to keep them off the ballot? Or student loan forgiveness? Or Israel’s attacks on Palestine? Amount of appropriate aid to Ukraine? It matters the questions you ask and how you ask them more than the response. And it really matters what topics you never bring up.

    Not going to watch. Wasn’t going to sway me anyway. I will check out the transcripts to see how right or wrong my pre-conceived notions are. And if it goes the best way I hope it could go, then it will look pretty ugly to see Biden frozen and clueless, no matter how much Trump acts like the perfect school member of a debate team. Ugly, but clear as to who has no business being President next year.

  16. I should add that I don’t expect CNN to follow the established rules either. Don’t be surprised if Biden is allowed to exceed his time without his mic being cut off at least once. Or maybe they fail to cut his mic so he has the opportunity to interrupt Trump. You can be sure that Trump’s mic well get cut off abruptly as soon as the timer hits 2:00, if not sooner.

    Trump was put into a no win position. He says “no thanks” to the debate and he gets accused of being chicken. He says OK to a 3-on-1 debate and he’ll be fighting an uphill battle.

  17. I have never watched a debate, not one, and for much the same reason – they make me too nervous. And I have never needed a debate to decide who I will vote for. In the primaries I come to that decision from reading, though I suppose that’s pretty old-fashioned now.

    As for the debates between the two party’s candidates, my decision is made before any debate takes place, because I won’t vote for a Democrat at all, in any form or for any office.

    I do, of course, see highlights, but that’s all, and that’s enough.

  19. I will watch…political theater, and it is news in the making. Tomorrow’s analysis is always interesting after actually watching the event.

  20. This is apparently from the Trump campaign:
    _______________________________________

    If you’re having trouble sleeping, ask your doctor about Bidenica, the sleep aid made from 100% Joe Biden’s Press Conference.

    –“Donald Trump mocks Joe Biden with funny “Bidenica” Ad ahead of 2024 Presidential Debate”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znRaKnzo-R4
    _______________________________________

    🙂

    Biden’s mental deficiencies will play a much larger role in 2024 than last time.

  21. Nervous and angry? I’m more anxious and disgusted, but it amounts to the same thing. Anxious or nervous about the candidate I support making mistakes or just saying cringeworthy things, and angry or disgusted about the lies from the other candidate (and the moderators).

    Have debates always been terrible and spurious going all the way back to Nixon and Kennedy (the missile gap, Quemoy and Matsu), or were they better at some point? I don’t remember the Reagan-Mondale or Bush-Dukakis debates being disgusting or embarassing (though Mondale and Dukakis probably weren’t happy with them). A new shamelessness came in with Clinton and the Boomer generation. The older generation was more respectable and responsible (or they could fake it better).

    My takeaway from the first Democrat debate back in 2020 was that only one thing was sure: Joe Biden was finished. So much for my pundit skills. This time, I’ll be watching/listening for as long as I can.

  23. Have debates always been terrible and spurious going all the way back to Nixon and Kennedy (the missile gap, Quemoy and Matsu), or were they better at some point?

    Abraxas.

    During the 2008 campaign I wondered exactly that and went back to rewatch the JFK-Nixon debate:

    –“TNC:172 Kennedy-Nixon First Presidential Debate, 1960”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbrcRKqLSRw

    I’m sure there are criticisms which could be leveled, but compared to our debates in the 21st C, Kennedy-Nixon (1960) was Shakespeare.

    Two smart articulate adults speaking carefully and gravely about the challenges facing America during the Cold War without constantly shouting or shouting over each other.

    It’s also amusing how spartan the stage was. It looks like it was held in a high school gym with three cheap chairs, a few basic tables and one lectern.

    Heigh-ho. Halcyon times.

  24. I really don’t like watching presidential “debates” either. As long as Biden manages to stay conscious for 90 minutes, he will be declared the “winner”. I don’t think this debate will have much effect on the election one way or the other. No matter what Biden says, he can’t change his record as a terrible president.

    At this point the most important question is whether anything close to a fair election is possible.

  25. Eh … if Biden manages to get through it all without crapping in his Depends or glitching like a zombie, the Establishment Press will be lauding him as the next best thing to Demosthenes.
    Best we can hope for is Trump not loosing his temper, and sticking to outlining what his vision is for the next four years, as long as he has a captive audience.
    Wouldn’t put it past the moderators to sabotage Trump, though. After how Candy Crowley kneecapped Romney, nothing they could do would really surprise me at all

  26. The expectations for Brandon are indeed in the sub basement. They are essentially:

    1. Show up
    2. Walk to and from the podium without assistance and without falling over
    3. Stand upright at the podium throughout the debate, and not wander off
    4. Don’t freeze up and appear disoriented and confused for more than 5 seconds at a time.
    5. Respond to questions from the moderators and attacks from Trump in a way that is (mostly) grammatical and overall coherent.

    Note #5 in particular. His responses just have to make some logical sense overall…they don’t have to be relevant to the question or topic at hand. If he talks about shrinkflation in regards to a question about Hamas, fine. If he goes off on a digression about Beau’s death when the topic is immigration, that’s okay. Those kinds of things can easily be spun.

    What he cannot do is mumble incoherently, speak complete gibberish or go off on a tangent about his uncle almost being eaten by cannibals until Corn Pop saved him.

    ….at least he can’t do that too much. A little but can also probably be spun.

    And yet, he may not even meet those subterranean expectations. He probably will, but…stay tuned

  27. if Biden manages to get through it all without crapping in his Depends or glitching like a zombie, the Establishment Press will be lauding him as the next best thing to Demosthenes.

    –Sgt. Mom

    True. However…

    The Establishment Press carries the water, but how many drink?

  28. Shirehome,
    My ex-wife worked as a counselor at Echo Hill
    she knew kinkies brother Roger.

  29. The very fact that Biden and his handlers agreed to have a debate is cause for alarm. I smell a powerful odor of mendacity. The Dems are up to something, that’s what I think.

  30. You and me both, IrishOtter49. That they would take a chance on his having a G7-type moment suggests they don’t think it’s much of a risk. Why not? I guess it’s possible that they know with a lot of confidence that a hit of some drug or drugs will hold him up for several hours. I don’t know how anybody can watch that G7 thing and not see that there is something very wrong with his mind at that point. The fury of the denials and the “cheap fake” lying tends to confirm that they know it’s obvious, so they tried to shout down anyone who mentioned it.

  31. The very fact that Biden and his handlers agreed to have a debate is cause for alarm. I smell a powerful odor of mendacity.

    IrishOtter49:

    I appreciate the sentiment, but I also smell the flop sweat of desperation.

    Biden’s biggest obstacle IMO is that voters, as the polls verify, don’t believe Biden is up to the job cognitively.

    So, if they can get Biden hopped up enough to get through the debate — and they only have to do it once — maybe they can get back to a softball, semi-basement campaign and rely on anti-Trump FUD (fear/uncertainty/doubt) to carry the day.

    It ain’t much, but maybe it will be enough. What else are they gonna do?

  32. The Establisment Press changes Brandon’s Depends while pointing and shouting “Squirrel!”

  33. CNN announced this afternoon they are adding a two-minute delay, which will allow them to cover Biden’s gaffes. Can’t imagine why Trump agreed to this.

    Photos of Biden this afternoon show him 20 lb fatter due to steroids and other drugs. Look them up; you’ll be shocked.

  34. Re: More conservatives won’t take yes for an answer

    According to Nate Silver:
    _________________________________

    Polling guru Nate Silver gives Donald Trump a 66% chance of winning presidential election

    “The candidate who I honest-to-God think has a better chance (Trump) isn’t the candidate I’d rather have win (Biden),” [said Silver].

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/polling-guru-gives-donald-trump-66-chance-winning-presidential-election
    _________________________________

    Yeah, yeah, I know about electoral fraud and I’m sure there will be some. But there is Too Big To Rig and I think we are headed into that territory.

    Yeah, I know about being cocky too. But there’s also being reflexively pessimistic which is another emotional fallacy.

  35. yeah, Pete Rose chimes in, folks don’t make it that obvious

    we will what kind of rice and mangoes, they conjure up, a phrase for a real mess,

  36. Kate, if you’re there, can you recommend a live-blog site? (Or, can anybody else?)

  37. Photos of Biden this afternoon show him 20 lb fatter due to steroids and other drugs. Look them up; you’ll be shocked.

    Mike Smith:

    As a senior who has lost significant weight and trying to keep it off, I marvel at those photos of Biden with his face stuffed into a ginormous ice cream waffle cone.

    I’m glad he’s not getting away with it.

    Hey! Ice cream is a drug. Don’t suppose otherwise.

  38. Mrs+Whatsit:

    I’m not Kate, but Stephen Green’s Drunkblog on PJMedia is my main goto on debates. Here’s his warmup:
    __________________________

    First, Biden is going to be amped up on whatever the unofficial White House Dr. Feelgood amps him up on, and that’s good enough to keep him lucid — on the Biden Scale — for an hour or more. For viewers sticking around for the whole debate, just like during his State of the Union address earlier this year, TOTALLY AMPED UP JOE is exhausting to watch. But most people will just watch the highlights, and what they’ll take away from short clips is that Biden sounds energetic and strong. It worked for SOTU in large part because the media played along, and it could work again tonight.

    –Stephen Green, “Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Tonight’s Debate but Were Afraid I’d Tell You”
    https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2024/06/27/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-tonights-debate-but-were-afraid-id-tell-you-n4930195

  40. It baffles and amazes me that anyone could be undecided about these candidates. What is it about them that isn’t known that would compel someone to think, “Hmm, I’ve got to see some more about this guy to decide if I support him.”?

  41. Biden talking very fast but coughing at the beginning. He’s trying to say everything he’s supposed to say in his first answer. 90 minutes of this?

    I wonder about the “no notes” rule. Sure, no prepared notes, but participants ought to be able to jot down things the other candidate is saying, especially when a candidate is as rapid fire as Biden was coming out. Trump is holding his own well.

    I’ll be switching off soon, I think.

    Ten minutes in, Biden faulters for the first time.

  43. Some Stephen Green’s Drunkblog comments in reverse chronological order:
    _________________________________

    Dear Mr. President: Wide-eyed mouth breathing is not a good look.

    Trump’s wound up now. Classic Trump.

    They both sound in command of their facts — with the accent on “sound” — but Biden just sounds weak.

    When Biden walked in, he did the Old Man Shuffle and mumbled Hello.

    Trump walked in calmly, said Hello, but his mic wasn’t live.

    Hmm…

    https://pjmedia.com/liveblog/2024/06/27/drunkblogging-the-first-only-2024-presidential-debate-n268

  44. Trump not reacting and staying very stoic as Biden speaks…good job so far

  45. Biden trying to talk at hyperspeed…and already stumbled in his answers

    physicsguy:

    OMG. If you’ve ever listened to someone on speed or maybe coke…

    I don’t have the transcript, but Biden blasted through a response on the border about how it was Trump’s or the Reps’ fault.

    Trump calmly replied that he didn’t understand Biden’s answer but he suspected Biden didn’t know what he was talking about.

  46. Biden: “I went to France and spoke to the heroes that were dead”

    Anyone else catch that?

  47. RedState is also running a liveblog.

    Apparently Biden looks like a zombie and is confused and of course lying. Trump is staying calm and disciplined.

  48. They dared Trump to accept a lopsided deal. I think they were shocked when he accepted.

    And now Trump is performing well under those lousy terms while Biden, with all the advantages, looks like…

    …well, he looks like the Joe Biden we’ve come to know and loathe and (almost) pity these last three years.

    –Stephen Green/Vodkapundit
    https://pjmedia.com/liveblog/2024/06/27/drunkblogging-the-first-only-2024-presidential-debate-n268
    ____________________________________

    Fingers crossed.

  50. Whether it’s Trump’s strategy or his advisors, he is keeping cool.

    My retribution is going to be success.

    This is a Trump I haven’t seen, or at least noticed, before. He is playing chess.

    I don’t think Biden can hold out for 90 minutes plus commercial breaks.

  51. After Biden’s predictable soundbite about Trump as a convicted felon:
    ___________________________

    But Joe could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office.

    –President Donald Trump
    ____________________________

    So good. And without the histrionics.

    Trump is finding the perfect balance between hitting hard without sounding insane to swing voters.

  55. That was actually not so bad. Now it’s the spinners’ turn. They have to admit that Biden has problems and they have to talk about things like Biden saying that women are being raped by their sisters, but they go on and on about Trump’s “lies” — not Biden’s. On CBS, someone called Margaret Brennan called him “Drump” and for some reason Gayle King is on the discussion panel.

    I thought Trump did well, but the deficit is going to be a problem for him. He has to figure out what to do about that. My guess is Biden isn’t going away.

  56. I didn’t think this debate would have much impact either way. I thought that Biden would be at least somewhat less cadaverous. It looks like I may have been wrong. The Dems now have the knives out for Biden and for the first time I think he probably won’t be the nominee.

  57. I read that in the Nixon-Kennedy debate, if you heard the debate on radio, Nixon won. But if you watched it on tv, then Kennedy won because of the optics.

    I was listening to the first part of the debate on radio and Biden sounded awful and I could not understand most of what he was saying. Trump sounded good. I picked up on the second part on a feed and my impression was that Biden looked bad and was staring off to the distance, not looking straight at the camera or to the moderators. Trump was good and he did not do too many grimaces, shrugs or other non verbal reactions.

    I noticed that when they were talking of health and golf scores, the mic cut off was not working and it was Trump who actually said something about not acting like children.

    Off to read the reviews…

  59. I giving the nod to the idea that this was a Dem setup to force Biden/Jill to withdraw from the race. When Dems “privately” are expressing shock that Joe is so diminished, it’s about as persuasive as Captain Renault saying “I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!”

    Joe may be so gone he’s lost touch with reality and can’t make the decision, so it’s up to Jill to quit abusing her husband and tell him to get off the stage.

    Dems can persuade Kamala to take the $50 mil and retire– making it Michelle Obama vs. Gavin Newsome.

  60. I mentioned here several days ago that the Democratic candidate for president will be a white female. My guess is that would be Patty Murray. Melinda Gates believes that women should run the world. She just received her own FIVE BILLION DOLLARS to spend as she pleases in her very own new foundation dedicated to getting women elected. That should pretty well cover the costs–don’t you think?

  61. My guess is that would be Patty Murray
    ==
    She’s a 73 year old dingbat whose employment history over the last 50 years has consisted of (1) holding elective offices after having (2) worked at a day care center. All of her elective offices have been seats on conciliar bodies. One thing you can say in her favor is that she has no history of having paid money to divorce lawyers.
    ==
    As far as partisan Democrats are concerned, a (D) after her name and a pulse beat is all that is strictly necessary. Still, pretty amusing that after having derided Sarah Palin (with the aid of Vichy Republicans like Charles Fried and Kathleen Parker) they’d go for a woman whose occupational history prior to getting into politics was briefer and comparatively skill-poor. Palin was a mayor, state bureau chief, and governor and spent 11 years in sum in such positions; Murray’s never done that.
    ==
    Melinda Gates believes that women should run the world
    ==
    Some years ago, one of the principal business magazines (Fortune, IIRC) had a feature article on publicly-traded companies with a woman among their founders. Among 6,000 publicly-traded companies, their researchers were able to identify 38 who met that criterion.

  62. Dems can persuade Kamala to take the $50 mil and retire– making it Michelle Obama vs. Gavin Newsome.
    ==
    Michelle Obama, age 60, hasn’t held a salaried job in 16 years. She has not in 33 years worked in a nominated profession or held a position the title of which would give you any idea of what she did all day (NB, her law license lapsed in 1993). She has two known interests: decorative arts and her children. She’s not as energetic as Nancy Reagan and she lacks Barbara Bush’s sense of humor.

  63. Few notes:
    It’s been said you take Trump seriously but not literally (Queens style bluster). The gap was less last night than I’d seen before.

    The idea of success as retribution implies the dems don’t want success and would be sorry if it happened. Now, why would anybody think that?

    I’ve thought Biden was a hateful, scummy character since I first noticed him. So it’s not sympathy; what Dr. Jill and the “team” have to do and have done to keep Biden in office is elder abuse and not in the Babylon Bee sense. Back when the Bee was ahead of the news.

    Since the Nungaray girl’s funeral was announced, two new horrors at the hands of illegals; one murder and one rape.

    I fully expect some people I know to try to blow off these issues. If the issues can’t be denied, they must be excused or minimized. They cannot be allowed to be considered important. If the people who do this cared how they look to others….

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