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More on the Israeli hostage rescue and lethal journalism — 54 Comments

1. The people on the left keep getting worse and worser.

2. ah yes sayaret devdovan the plain clothes unit, featured in Fauda,

3. Video snippets of the rescue itself, which implies the bulk of the thing is captured on video though not released. Hopefully although not a priority the troops had time to grab documents and other intelligence valuables in the raids: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/391396

   Video at link.

4. Dangling hostages so that Israeli soldiers would take the bait and get killed in the trap.
   With lots of dead Gazans caught in the crossfire…
   WIN-WIN!!
   Well it was a close thing but not too many Israeli casualties, unfortunately for Hamas. Still, THE NEXT BEST THING: lots of Hamas and Gazan casualties, which ALL can be blamed on Israel.

5. in the 80s Marine Colonel Cowan spent years in the nastiers portions of Beirut trying to find the hostages, Burg eh Baraneh and the like, subsequently Rob Baer informed us, that they were supposedly in Baalbek, some distance away from Beirut proper near the ruins,

6. There is a special place in hell for Hamas and those who support them.

7. Excellent IDF op!

8. The question – no, the snivel — from the BBC reporter about why the Israeli’s didn’t warn the hostage guards — has got to be hands-down the STUPIDEST thing that I have heard a representative of the so-called press say in decades.
   Jeezuz Christ on a cracker, I believe now that Ron Burgundy is an accurate portrayal of the news-gathering/reporting media, and any BBC reputation for being erudite and knowledgeable is now shot down in flames.

9. I don’t think the reaction from the left is really about hate for Jews specifically, they just hate the West. In this conflict Israel is essentially a proxy for Western culture.

10. Sgt. Mom on June 10, 2024 at 5:01 pm said:
    The question – no, the snivel — from the BBC reporter about why the Israeli’s didn’t warn the hostage guards — has got to be hands-down the STUPIDEST thing that I have heard a representative of the so-called press say in decades.

    The scary thing is the left’s embrace of stupid. For example, Ketanji Onyika Brown Jackson requiring a biologist to define woman (which logically doesn’t even meet the left’s requirement on the issue, but that itself doesn’t matter because she’s bowing to their insanity and that’s all they really care about).

    The left has gone full tribal. They stay with the current narrative no matter how insane or stupid. Allegiance to tribe is the point.

11. Sgt Mom; Don:

    It’s the old question: fool or knave? Or both? In other words, are they really that stupid or do they do it with full awareness of exactly what they’re doing, for propaganda purposes?

    Or is it primarily a moral failing? Do they truly believe that people the left labels as “oppressed” are morally good no matter what they do, and people the left labels as “oppressors” are morally bad no matter what they do?

12. Separate from the reporting on this and other events around October 7th*; I have noticed a lot of vitriol towards X since Elon Musk took it over and I think much of it has to do with this issue.

    The fact that smart phones are ubiquitous in most of the world greatly reduces the power of news services. And a feature like “community notes” in X greatly reduces the ability of a disingenuous reporter to slant opinion on a story.

    It seems likely we will migrate to a subscriber based form of journalism where users choose specific journalists to follow and support. And yes, many of those journalists will form syndicates. A significant part of Substack already operates on this scenario. The Free Press is another example. Locals…

    The Washington Post famously lost over $70 million last year, but they are not the only news organization bleeding red ink today that was built at a time when there were immense financial barriers to building a worldwide reporting network and promptly disseminating news to consumers.

    And Elon Musk showed there was even immense bloat at Twitter.

    A lot of independent people really enjoy doing actual journalism and they can now reach almost anyone with an interest, nearly instantly. I don’t see how corporations stop it.

    neo often quotes Mark Twain’s great line about the speed of a lie compared to the truth. Lies are still often salacious and human nature is still human nature, but technology is helping Truth get its pants on much quicker.

    *Which is, unfortunately, very much prejudiced by anti-semitism.

13. Don @ 5:08pm,

    There is hatred of the West among most Leftists, but there is also antisemitism. The antisemitism appears to be a constant no matter which compass point, nation or social system Jewish people are living under.

14. Lololololololol

15. “Biden” will bail out the Post and other losing “journalistic” ventures, just as “he”’ll bail out the right kind of universities, blue cities and blue states, green orgs and so-called “green” industries, etc.
    Did I say ”Biden”? Make that “the American taxpayer”…as that could old—perverse—“Obama” sense of humor kicks in once again….

16. neo on June 10, 2024 at 5:18 pm said:
    Sgt Mom; Don:

    It’s the old question: fool or knave? Or both? In other words, are they really that stupid or do they do it with full awareness of exactly what they’re doing, for propaganda purposes?

    Both. Jackson clearly knows what a woman is, so her response was that of a knave. However, she still flubbed the answer based upon the left’s logic (a biologist doesn’t have the tools to figure it out). So she’s something of a fool.

    Or is it primarily a moral failing? Do they truly believe that people the left labels as “oppressed” are morally good no matter what they do, and people the left labels as “oppressors” are morally bad no matter what they do?

    That’s consistent with being a knave.

17. I suspect the Beeb’s comment is aimed at the surprisingly large collection of idiots who might know better in unloaded circumstances. But now, they WANT to believe anything no matter how foolish as long as it fits. Modern journalism knows this.

18. Rufus T. Firefly,

    I think outright antisemitism isn’t a major thing among the left. They are happy to defend Jews if that aligns with their goals. Soros for example. Or the typical pro-Jew or pro-Israel talk the left liked to use to show their moral superiority while taring the right as antisemites.

    It’s the same with any other group the left claims to champion. Women, for example, who they now insist need to compete against male athletes.

    The left is about advancing leftist power. They will take whatever stance they need to take on any group, the key factor is goal of advancing their power.

19. No one has any idea if te jailers are to kill hostages if the opportunity comes they cane taken, any warning would be idiotic .
    My view is Leftism is Anti-Jew and western religions. Any pretend to protect is smoke and mirrors.

20. With all respect to Cato the Elder, ceterum (autem) censeo Hamasinem esse delendam. And more to the point, ceterum (autem) censeo Palestiniem esse delendam. The world would be a far, far better place.

21. Steve: Hamas must be destroyed, Palestinians must be destroyed?

22. The international community (spit) has disgraced itself. Bottom line is they didn’t want the hostages rescued. They want Hamas to survive and now they lost some bargaining chips. Evil walks the earth.

23. as a political authority, as it was with raqqua the seat of the lslamic state, so was palmyra so was aleppo, remember we were told that was an immovable object

24. have we forgotten we faced the same problem in kandahar in ramadi and other places, in the latter we eventually had the awda the awakening among the tribes, who understood whatever difference they had with us, zarqawi was bad news,

25. Neo: And if the word “journalist” comes after the modifier “Palestinian,” it needs to be in scare quotes.

    That familiar term “scare quotes” usually seems like a misnomer to me. I think “sneer quotes” or “sarcasm quotes” make much more sense, at least in circumstances like this.

26. https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20690/palestinian-civilians-complicit-in-hamas-crimes

27. So, they killed the wife, the father, him, and injured the daughter?

    If I am of normal intelligence, holding hostages in Palestine, I am taking them to the nearest corner and notifying IDF of their location..

28. Don,

    Sadly, I suppose I agree with you in that antisemitism seems to be a major thing in every direction; left, right, centrist. In that regard I agree that it’s not specifically a “left” thing, if that is the point you are making.

    And I agree leftists will coopt any group they can to advance their power. But there is a lot of actual, real antisemitism among many leftists. It has been much more common in Europe, but it appears the left here have picked it up.

    And, a lot of the populists/nationalists (who I guess are on the “right” here) make a lot of anti-Jewish statements. A lot of America-first’ers who might not think they are being antisemitic buy into theories that a Jewish cabal runs globalist initiatives. The ol’ “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” trope.

29. fullmoon:

    Problem is, if you did that, Hamas or just ordinary Gazans would probably rip you limb from limb. Better to call the IDF and tell them to take you to Israel along with the hostages. You’d probably be hailed as a hero. And then go into a witness protection program.

30. It’s the old question: fool or knave? Or both? In other words, are they really that stupid or do they do it with full awareness of exactly what they’re doing, for propaganda purposes?

    Both. There are knowledgeable supporters of Hamas who are doing this for propaganda effect- and quite skillfully- especially those at the top. Early on, there were surveys asking US college chanters of “From the river to the sea,” specifically what river and what sea were they referring to? A substantial proportion didn’t know; they were just going along with the crowd. Fools.

    Or is it primarily a moral failing? Do they truly believe that people the left labels as “oppressed” are morally good no matter what they do, and people the left labels as “oppressors” are morally bad no matter what they do?

    Given the track record on “From the river to the sea,” it would appear to me that there are a substantial number of woefully ignorant people who sincerely believe that the ” ‘oppressed’ are morally good no matter what they do.” Similarly, a substantial number of woefully ignorant people also believe “ ‘oppressors’ are morally bad no matter what they do.”
    Virtue signally puts them on the side of the “oppressed” against the “oppressors.”

    I don’t see this as a moral failing, but as a failure of ignorance.

31. Is it possible there is a genuine link between stupidity and evil?

32. It would make perfect sense to warn Hamas of the imminent rescue if your goal were to kill as many Jews as possible. Otherwise, obviously barking mad.

33. Possibly warn some Gazans in one area as a false flag op to enhance success of the rescue in another? Should work at least once?

    Interesting that I have seen or heard media reports that the two buildings holding the hostages were 6 meters, 200 feet, and 200 meters apart. Take your pick? 🙂

34. In trying to answer my question, I came across this. I think it’s pretty good.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=stupidity+and+evil&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:4c415e1a,vid:ww47bR86wSc,st:0

35. The Israelis should have warned Hamas. That has to be the single stupidest sentence ever uttered by a human in a long, long time.

36. Forget it, Jake. It’s the BBC.
    (Actually, it’s practically all of ‘em…unfortunately…)

37. “I think outright antisemitism isn’t a major thing among the left. They are happy to defend Jews if that aligns with their goals. Soros for example.”

    Soros has never once embraced his Jewish heritage and gives significant funds to anti-Zionist organizations including ones fomenting antisemitic riots on American campuses. His dishonest leftist stooges (I repeat myself a couple times there) then accuse people critical of Soros of being “antisemites” even when they make no reference to Soros’ ancestry. For example the hard left Chicago Newspaper Guild made this attack on conservative journalist John Kass. And undoubtedly most of these same people support those antisemitic riots.

    I lived in San Francisco for a long time and got plenty of exposure to left-wing anti-Zionism and outright antisemitism, it disabused me of the notion that antisemitism was a “right-wing” phenomenon.

38. Kass is fantastic. Tells it like it is. An old-school, Chicago street fighter.
    – – – – – – – –
    Anyone who claims that criticism of Soros is “anti-Semitic” is beyond stupid.
    The man—and the family business—is actively doing his very best to take down both Israel and America…
    …which I suppose might mean, according to such absurd “logic”, is that trying to destroy those two countries, and the West generally, is…philo-Semitic????

39. Mike
    Thanks for the work on “stupid”.
    I don’t see it that way. Some points:
    There is a degree of ignorance which amounts to “stupid”. Not having been involved in history enough to be aware of Hitler’s last name is not necessary to getting through the week, or even one’s life. Even though it’s all over the place. There’s no degree of urgency and no public service announcements or urgent lesson’s from one’s parents.
    But. Had an acquaintance whose son, preparing to grill something, tried to start the charcoal with gasoline. Everybody knows that makes the meat taste like a petroleum refinery. My acquaintance’s church used up a substantial portion of that year’s budget on the deductible and co-pay. This is a simple thing but very strongly in the should-know category. Without it, you die. Or close. And it’s all over your life growing up. And the guy missed it. Folks divorced when he was young, fwiw. Missing something you should know, that everybody knows, that is supremely important in The Moment, whatever that is, is stupid.
    There is a point on The Spectrum, as it is called for short, where the autistic person sees no and cannot be taught to see, cannot be convinced, cannot be shown, does not remember the last time a particular action had negative consequences. My sister has a friend with orthopedic issues from trying to control her fully grown autistic son. While we cannot, in compassion, call this stupid for one who is on The Spectrum, there are people who are not, as far as we know, but whose wanting brooks no objections as to consequences. Much of what looks like “rationalization” is used to avoid warnings. When you want what you want when you want it and devil take the consequences, that’s one thing. When there are no consequences seen and, more importantly, one cannot be shown, and resists being shown, that there may well be, that’s stupid.
    It could be a result of being indulged as a kid. It could be the result of a stray piece of autism floating around. It could be, as is frequently mentioned on this site, so necessary to one’s self-image that negative consequences must not be acknowledged.
    I have some relations who thought raising the minimum wage in California was a good idea. When so many jobs were lost–presumably my relations did not expect this–they insisted the employers were greedy. As far as they were concerned, calling the employers a nasty name solved the issue. It did, for them and their self-image. Right and compassionate both times.

    However. I recall reading someplace that, while motivation cannot be proven absent a note-to-self somebody left lying around, intent may be inferred from result, whether actual or the likely result of an intended action. And if an action was “sold” as if the actor intended the most unlikely result, which would be considered “good”, while it was obvious that a negative result was the only logical expectation, either the actor is stupid or he’s lying.
    If he’s ignorant, he might be convinced prior to lighting the fuse.
    If he’s stupid, he wants what he wants when he wants it and the bright, shiny fizzing is what he wants and other consequences get in the way so they don’t exist. If he’s evil, something blows up. The second and third look a lot alike.

    And, as in your piece, the third can manipulate the second like calling a square dance. Hey, bet nobody’s used that as an analogy recently.,

40. Mike
    Thanks for the work on “stupid”.
    I don’t see it that way. Some points:
    There is a degree of ignorance which amounts to “stupid”. Not having been involved in history enough to be aware of Hitler’s last name is not necessary to getting through the week, or even one’s life. Even though it’s all over the place. There’s no degree of urgency and no public service announcements or urgent lesson’s from one’s parents.
    But. Had an acquaintance whose son, preparing to grill something, tried to start the charcoal with gasoline. Everybody knows that makes the meat taste like a petroleum refinery. My acquaintance’s church used up a substantial portion of that year’s budget on the deductible and co-pay. This is a simple thing but very strongly in the should-know category. Without it, you die. Or close. And it’s all over your life growing up. And the guy missed it. Folks divorced when he was young, fwiw. Missing something you should know, that everybody knows, that is supremely important in The Moment, whatever that is, is stupid.
    There is a point on The Spectrum, as it is called for short, where the autistic person sees no and cannot be taught to see, cannot be convinced, cannot be shown, does not remember the last time a particular action had negative consequences. My sister has a friend with orthopedic issues from trying to control her fully grown autistic son. While we cannot, in compassion, call this stupid for one who is on The Spectrum, there are people who are not, as far as we know, but whose wanting brooks no objections as to consequences. Much of what looks like “rationalization” is used to avoid warnings. When you want what you want when you want it and devil take the consequences, that’s one thing. When there are no consequences seen and, more importantly, one cannot be shown, resists being shown, that there may well be, that’s stupid.
    It could be a result of being indulged as a kid. It could be the result of a stray piece of autism floating around. It could be, as is frequently mentioned on this site, so necessary to one’s self-image that negative consequences must not be acknowledged.
    I have some relations who thought raising the minimum wage in California was a good idea. When so many jobs were lost–presumably my relations did not expect this–they insisted the employers were greedy. As far as they were concerned, calling the employers a nasty name solved the issue. It did, for them and their self-image. Right and compassionate both times.

    However. I recall reading someplace that, while motivation cannot be proven absent a note-to-self somebody left lying around, intent may be inferred from result, whether actual or the likely result of an intended action. And if an action was “sold” as if the actor intended the most unlikely result, which would be considered “good”, while it was obvious that a negative result was the only logical expectation, either the actor is stupid or he’s lying.
    If he’s ignorant, he might be convinced prior to lighting the fuse.
    If he’s stupid, he wants what he wants when he wants it and the bright, shiny fizzing is what he wants and other consequences get in the way so they don’t exist. If he’s evil, something blows up. The second and third look a lot alike.

    And, as in your piece, the third can manipulate the second like calling a square dance. Hey, bet nobody’s used that as an analogy recently.,

41. 2nd story down is Sunday’s released video of rescuing the three men in the Gaza apartment. It’s riveting! Also below are more videos of the hostage rescue:

    https://www.commoncts.blogspot.com

    http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com

42. Not so sure on the “stupid” explaination. Hatred goes beyond stupid.

43. Precious Noa is back home!!!

    Shlomi, Arkady, and Almog are home!!!!

    As for Abdallah Aljamal and his father I hope they perished in great agony.

44. I think the video can be distilled down to the following quote:

    Stupidity, in its essence, is not an intellectual defect, but a moral one.

    Obviously that is not always true. Not all stupid people are immoral, and vice versa. But an interesting debate could be had about whether it is sometimes true, or often true. Right about now I’m leaning heavily toward often.

    There is also a great quote about one allowing oneself to become stupid. I think he’s on to something there, and I would call that a moral failure.

45. Almogs father sadly died before the reunion

46. .Mike.
    The only mechanism I can figure involved in allowing stupid is one where inconvenient facts are dismissed after being understood. They don’t exist after examination

47. Stupidity, in its essence, is not an intellectual defect, but a moral one.

    Perhaps it is a combination of both. If we evolved a set of instinctual psychological capabilities that partly define our “inherent morality” [empathy, fairness, disgust, shame, guilt, etc.], and the rest of our moral views come from our respective cultures (mostly Judeo-Christian for most of us), where it takes some level of intellectualism to learn the desired/ required social norms and behaviors. In other words a desire for transcendence (religion/ morality) and our rationality both evolved in parallel and supported group survival. But if someone has deficits in intellect they might well have deficits in the parallel moral part of their psychology, too.

    Sort of related? The asocial behavior of some autistic people [maybe?] reflects an alternative or limited set of inherited “moral aids” while sometimes they also exhibit outstanding savant capabilities in a selected area. Two major aspects of mind getting out of balance?

48. Re: Stupid or Immoral

    I say profound category errors are involved in the posing of this dilemma, as well as the question of what is the objective of this search.

    Do the p->q’s really come down to:

    * If one is smart, one is not immoral.
    * If one is immoral, one is not smart.

    Mostly these discussions seem to be exercises in how best to blame and name-call our opponents.

    Humans are hideously complex, emotional, driven by survival and not all that rational.

    It’s the Planet of the Apes. Do we argue about whether chimps are stupid or immoral when they massacre each other as they do?
    ________________________________________

    I’m back. I’m home. All the time. You finally really did it.

    You maniacs! You blew it up. Damn you. Damn you all to hell.

    [Zoom out to shore view revealing the half-buried Statue of Liberty]

    –Charlton Heston, “Planet of the Apes, Statue of Liberty” (1968)
    https://youtu.be/mDLS12_a-fk?t=90

49. (A late comment, but I just read Neo’s post on lethal journalism.)

    Neo noted that some of the recently rescued Israeli hostages were being held in the house of an Al Jazeera reporter. Even for those of us who’ve become cynical about the media and universities, committing a war crime is a noteworthy step in the deterioration of journalism.

    Al Jazeera is, of course, based in Qatar. The network’s vitriolic Jew-hatred has become a staple in the Arab world. Luckily, an American university is there to help. For almost twenty years, Northwestern University in Qatar has been training students in journalism and strategic communication. Will hostage-taking now be offered as independent-study credit? The annual revenue of Northwestern University in Qatar is $2.7 billion (https://tinyurl.com/bdhdj75y).

    Meanwhile, back in the USA, pro-Hamas protesters built one of their tent cities on the Northwestern campus. The University’s president was so afraid of offending the Jew-haters that he negotiated a generous deal with them. The pro-Hamas protesters have been given a special on-campus house that will be restricted to MENA (Middle East North Africa) students. For universities, MENA effectively means Arab Muslim. The protesters were also awarded with a University commitment to “to reestablish the now inactive Advisory Committee on Investment Responsibility and answer questions from ‘internal stakeholders’ about the University’s financial holdings (https://tinyurl.com/5c5nk8d6).” Of course, the Committee’s first order of business will be a demand for divestment from Israeli companies.

50. The president of Northwestern is an ass-kissing twit, a common type among higher ed administrators.

51. My dad was a holocaust survivor.

    Do I need to go to a camp in Germany because some Germans died in order for him to live?

    If so, I’d like to see these assholes try.

52. Art Deco:

    Northwestern is giving cowardice a bad name.

53. https://twitter.com/AcrossTheBay/status/1800908483447128113

54. https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2024/06/12/u-n-confirms-hamas-horrors-on-october-7-but-blames-israel-for-crimes-against-humanity/

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