The verdict is in: GUILTY
As we expected. But that doesn’t make it any easier.
I keep thinking in dramatic terms, such as: We have crossed the Rubicon. Or, this country is finished; it was nice while it lasted.
Then again, I tend to be a pessimist. So I try to consider more optimistic alternatives, such as: Maybe this will be a wakeup call for a lot of people. And, maybe this will backfire on the left.
One thing I know is that the left is drunk with power and never, never never wants to relinquish it. They believe their capture of the institutions is nearly complete, and so they no longer have to pretend. The only frontier left to conquer is SCOTUS, and they’ve been working on that for quite some time. Is it possible that SCOTUS will intervene in the Trump case?
You can find some of the details of the verdict here as well as here.
I repeat: RIP, old thing.
The only possible way out of this present mess is for a higher court somewhere to take up the appeal immediately and overturn this ridiculous verdict. Not going to happen, but that is what is immediately necessary.
Alternatively, we might get some measure of redress if the polling in the next week shows Trump even stronger. I don’t know what to expect on that front though- I am atrocious at predicting that sort of thing.
“Is it possible that SCOTUS will intervene in the Trump case?”
No. Two ways to go after sentencing.
1. NY Appellate court with request for emergency handling.
2. If Trump is sent to jail, he can file a habeas case in federal court. But that’s the trial court. SCOTUS won’t get involved, if at all, for some time.
Like I wrote before, I can see Trump getting a 30-60 day sentence.
Today’s Marist poll is instructive on a guilty verdict:
67% makes no difference;
17% less likely to vote for Trump;
15% more likely
At one time, we had a critical mass of people in elite positions and in the rank-and-file who understood you needed impersonal procedural principles to regulate social relations. We don’t anymore. That you couldn’t find one person out of twelve in Manhattan to refuse to countenance this blatant fraud tells you something.
==
Your family members and your circle of acquaintances are shot through with people who would countenance this. People of passable character are as we speak likely a minority.
This should trigger a massive outflow of people and capital out of NYC, and probably also out of NY State. And Trump will no doubt say that if they can do this to him, they can do it to anyone, and he will be right.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I think the number one thing we all need to do, is get right with God in whatever way we understand that to mean.
No court can take that away from you, if you accomplish it, and you’ll have taken care of what matters most in the long run.
I would expect a lot more prosecutions and convictions in the months and years ahead. There will be no consequences for the wrongdoers here. The Law has been cut down to get at the Devil, and we’ll not stand up long in the winds that will be blowing soon.
So please do what is in your power to do, to look after the health of your soul, however you understand that, and the rest will be that much easier to bear. I don’t say do ONLY that, but to put it first.
I’m not surprised by the verdict but I admit for holding out some hope that there would be at least one principled juror. No matter what happens in the election, the fact that the justice system in both our largest city and in our nation’s capital is completely corrupt is a tragedy.
I think we crossed the Rubicon when our courts allowed the 2020 election to be stolen and did nothing. Everything that has happened since then — from the persecution of the J6 defendants to the numerous bogus legal cases against Trump — is just the logical extension of a thoroughly corrupt system.
The country that we thought we knew is dead. The question remains whether it is possible to build something else after the inevitable collapse.
My hope is that even this poll underestimates the beneficial effect- I would infer that of the 17% that would be less likely to vote for Trump are mostly people who are already 100% sure to vote against him and don’t even matter.
@Yancey Ward:My hope is that even this poll underestimates the beneficial effect
Without knowing who they polled and the margin of error, this poll doesn’t tell us anything except that somebody wanted us to believe its results.
In terms of who’s likely to vote for Trump, the Dems harvesting ballots are not going to be collecting any of his, and so a poll like this is no good for forecasting how the election might go, especially if legal shenanigans drop Trump off the ballot in critical states.
Sentencing set for July 11. At least this rabid judge didn’t send him to Rikers immediately. I am sure appeals will be filed promptly.
Gregory Harper @5:54 makes great sense.
David,
Why wait for sentencing to file an appeal?
You are not a pessimist, Neo. Crossed the Rubicon is right.
The big question is; “how long will the ‘silent majority’ tolerate this?”. Or maybe the question should be, “do they care?”.
I am sure that the Feds are alert for any MAGA back lash and will scoop up any dissidents, or suspected dissidents. They no doubt have a fist full of “no knock, middle of the night, massive force authorized, subpoenas at the ready.
On the other hand if it ever gets started
The missing thing in the poll is the break down on who is more likely and less likely by who they supported prior to the verdict. Marist run by leftists if memory serves, so they want the poll to show 17>15, which is already lukewarm just sitting alone.
Sentancing 7/11/2024?
That seems odd, to wait so long. What is the other shoe? Riots to organize? Other charges and plots to manufacture?
Troubled times, lots of upside down flags expected to be unfurled.
East wind, rain
Coming soon: The Fall of the House of Biden
When I think about how likely voters are to respond to a question in a poll like that, partisans are going to trip over their own feet to say less likely or more likely even though the verdict doesn’t actually change their position.
One more thought that I have been meditating on. If Trump is sentenced to jail, can they deprive him of his lawful Secret Service protection?
Have they thought that far ahead?
Frankly, I will be surprised if he is sent to jail. The optics on that could be devastating, and potentially triggering.
Even for those who despise–but fall short of hate for–Trump would surely find that hard to digest.
“East wind, rain” yup.
Trump’s web site crashed about half an hour after the verdict. My takeaway is that so many people are tuning in to donate to his campaign.
Trey Gowdy on Fox is almost in tears. So am I.
Judge Juan Merchan can have his choice of cabinet positions if Biden wins the next election. And likely be Time’s Man Of the Year.
Obama said just before his election that he wanted to fundamentally transform the country. It has happened.
Speaker Johnson has put out a good statement. See if you can find it. I don’t now how to embed URLs.
As I have said elsewhere, I am enormously disappointed. In the jury, in Judge Merchan, in New York State, in the fourth estate, and in the super-wealthy cabal (Time’s word, not mine) that swung the 2020 election to Biden.
Having spent several decades in the Third World, I recognize all this.
Art Deco voices a sobering, salient truth: By and large, we here and countless kindred spirits inhabit a different country from those with whom we rub shoulders and break bread; we subscribe to civic, and apparently even personal virtues starkly at odds with theirs. There has been a great unmasking.
Chases Eagles — right on.
om on May 30, 2024 at 6:13 pm said:
Sentancing 7/11/2024?
That seems odd, to wait so long. What is the other shoe? Riots to organize? Other charges and plots to manufacture?
GOP convention starts 7/15.
Why no holdouts on the jury? For one thing, it is quite likely that any holdout would have been identified by the media and doxed big-time.
There is a lot of fear in America today.
Well, the Dems now have the Tiger By The Tail.
Yes, we mostly thought he would be convicted. Once Bragg usurped the law it was forgone.
This “judge” will go for a long prison sentence.
Now, Biden can say No I won’t debate a Convicted Felon.
Yes, Rubicon crossed a long time ago.
This is very bad for the US, and Dems can’t see that. It is also very bad for the world, other than China, Russia and Iran.
The Rubicon which was crossed was NOT the corruption of NY courts. They were rotten to the core when I was growing up there in the 60s. (I literally never met an adult who didn’t think their verdicts were for sale.)
What has changed is that now they know a very large part of the country, including most of the feral government, has their backs here.
The only question left in my mind is whether the states can resist.
I can’t wait to read the House committee report on the Biden family bank accounts that have received millions of dollars from China through shell companies. Should offer an instructive perspective.
Shirehome: right about Biden saying he will not debate a felon. Another travesty. May 2024 is national travesty month.
F: Chases Eagles was commenting on my post at 6:15 PM.
Chases Eagles: Good on you for recognizing what I was referring to.
To all conservatives/constitutionalists:
“Climb Mt. Nitaka.”
I am dead serious.
I was thinking “Through the looking glass”.
This is an interesting comment made at Berenson’s substack post about the verdict:
________________
Lapun Ozymandias
51 mins ago
– here is the view from a non-U.S. citizen far across the sea.
For as long as I can remember, the business contracts governing any non-U.S. company or person (say an importer of U.S. products), that sought to enter into a commercial arrangement with a U.S. entity have required that any disputed matter that arose was to be decided in the U.S. court system. In years gone by this was never considered a problem because most non-Americans trusted that justice would be applied impartially in the U.S. jurisprudential system – that is, the belief of non-Americans was that U.S. justice was fair and free of corrupting influence.
The events leading up to and surrounding the way this New York court has convicted Donald Trump have dramatically changed this perception. The result is that trust in U.S. justice has evaporated. It has become obvious to all but the blind that the U.S. system of law is deeply compromised and that judicial process is controlled by interest groups that have political power.
Outsiders do not differentiate between the actions of a New York court or one from Snake Gully County – they are all considered to be ‘American’ – so the judicially compromised actions of one smears the whole system. It is disturbing to see trust in the system of law of a once-great country such as the U.S. reduced to the same stinking level of that of a totalitarian state. For foreigners, it raises the question – why would anyone want to do business with America?
__________________________________________
John Hinderaker at the Power Line is even more angry than I am.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/05/guilty.php
Well Rich got Wales. The Democrats have created Robin Hood. This is a mistake the Left will regret.
Rich got Wales. The Democrats have recreated Robin Hood. This is a grave mistake by the Left.
Here’s a minor sh!t test. What do you figure will be the public remarks of (1) George W. Bush, (2) Jeb Bush, (3) Mitt Romney, (4) Paul Ryan, (5) Glitch McConnell, and (6) George Will on this travesty?
@Sennacherib:Well Rich got Wales.
Richard Rich was ennobled, died rich and fat and happy and founded a dynasty spanning three centuries. Didn’t bother him a bit to go from persecuting Catholics to Protestants and back again. Men like him are very useful to the powerful.
@Art Deco:What do you figure will be the public remarks of …
I haven’t kept track of who all these guys grift for currently, so I couldn’t say. McConnell and Romney are active appropriators though, and will say whatever’s needful to that purpose.
no one gives a farthing, about the man who was bankrolled by the bin mahfouz’s* in his oil business, or in the younger medici case, was partners with recarey,** or camilo padrera,*** and other slithy toves, of mittens I care even less, his firm that has had even dodgier aspects with Huawei,
Saudi banker, they called him Bakari in the Silva tale the messenger
hmo executive who fled to spain to avoid extradition
another crooked official, with a long and sordid path,
that crook blankenship did have the Turtles number on one count, his dodgy chinese inlaws,
The stupidity, weakness, and evil of these jurors is depressing.
Gregory Harper (5:54 pm) said: “I think we crossed the Rubicon when our courts allowed the 2020 election to be stolen and did nothing.”
I’d date it to the Lois Lerner IRS action delaying tax-exempt status paperwork for Tea Party – related organizations. She was found in contempt of Congress for not answering questions (that wrist slap must have stung for all of three seconds) but otherwise she skated free, with no real consequences.
(That predates even the Hillary Clinton private server bullspit.)
Either that, or I might date it to Richard Nixon meekly accepting the results of the 1960 presidential election, but after that situation, things did return to “normal”. So I’ll go with Lerner and Clinton plus all the deep state antics from 2016 to 2020, and then 2020.
What “Rubicon”? We’ve been a banana republic for years now. Welcome to reality.
https://cdn.centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2009/03/22164443/p26.pdf
No actionable intelligence.
The Democrats have declared war, all bets are off.
It is to weep.
DA Alvin Bragg said ion TV that he was just doing his job, or words to that effect. He also said white collar crime is a big priority. What??? With violent crime raging in New York City? That he could say that with a straight-faced is an indicator of what a lying assh*le he is.
Where do we go to express our outrage? The Dems are hoping for violence. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t been using “influencers” to goad people on and are hoping for it.
The one true place is at the ballot box. Do not, under any circumstances, ever vote for a Democrat again – even for dogcatcher.
Torn on the horns of a dilemma: will it be The Blues Brothers (on a mission from God for the preservation of charity against an o’erweening government) or Blazing Saddles (seeking the salvation of the city from the grasping hands of the corrupt)?
Or must it be the Both!?
All the D acquaintances are quite literally popping champagne. Some claiming they had a bottle stored away for this day. and gleefully celebrating this, in their words, triumph of justice.
We are two very different countries now. I see no way for reconciliation.
J.J. (7:34 pm) offers, in response to the rhetorical question “Where do we go to express our outrage?”, “The one true place is at the ballot box.”
M J R respectfully counters with,
“It’s not the people who vote that count, it’s the people who count the votes.”
— attributed to Joseph Stalin, probably erroneously, . . .
. . . but my oh my, how true it is in 2020s USA.
I certainly do NOT wish for Civil War II. Anyone out there got a practical alternative?
Kate (6:57 pm) offers a start, but it’ll be a long, slow slog.
The many nails in the coffin that was America have been hammered home. Trump is the crowbar with its claw doggedly preventing airtight closure. I can’t yet believe this is it for America. There are just too many of us out here who carry this great mismatch of what we feel America should be vs what it has become.
Start by contributing to the Trump campaign at donaldjtrump.com.
Maybe $100 million in donations over the next day or two might signal that conservatives aren’t going to take this lightly.
I’ve been noticing websites soliciting campaign donations that represent sketchy PACs.
I’ll only donate to Trump directly at this point. And to individual candidates. I’m skeptical about the NRCC or NRSC at this point.
“It’s not the people who vote that count, it’s the people who count the votes.” – MJR
True dat.
I am hoping that Michael Whatley and Lara Trump (co-heads of the Republican National Party) can succeed in their plans to recruit and train gras roots operators to make sure there is less cheating this time. Lara Trump has been on Fox talking about this. It’s the only way the GOP can ensure a free and fair election.
I’m giving a small monthly donation to the RNC because their efforts aren’t going to work without the money to back it up. I wish I had Zuckerbucks to give, but I do what I can.
Winred crashed today. Donations to President Trump or leftists’ hack? Probably both
https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1796290488976228406
https://redstate.com/sister-toldjah/2024/05/30/our-upside-down-flag-moment-is-upon-us-n2174875
Isaiah 59:14 – And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Brian E:
Done at donaldjtrump.com.
om, we finally agree on something. 🙂
President Trump received nearly 74 million votes in 2020. Just $5 x 74 million= $370 million. $25 x 74 million= $1.85 billion.
Brian E:
We disagree most significantly on one thing. It isn’t President Trump.
Seeing quite a few people promoting the idea of a way to register our anger without violence and legally: fly the flag upside down at your house. If it caught on with millions doing such could send a message.
Very strong case on an important law. The jury did their job.
JJ:
Less cheating this time?
Where was the cheating?
Oh lookie another shithead troll.
@helen
The jury failed to do their job the second they failed to realize what the Judge had done in terms of giving unethical and illegal guidance.
And if the case was so “very strong” why did the prosecution have to turn the law inside out with the connivance of the Judge to get this result?
I really don’t know what to do next. Yeah there is donating to Trump, but, when the foundation of our system is so easily manipulated to have third world show trials I don’t know. I have been in countries that are at the destination we are headed to. And we sure as hell are headed there. A significant number of Americans think the country and it’s system are a plaything. The endpoint is pretty horrible.
helen:
How truly amusing that you’ve come to grace us with your profound wisdom.
Helen,
Specifically. What law was trump convicted of that allowed these misdemeanor charges to be elevated to felonies. I still have not seen a single thing that explains it.
Richard F Cook,
The problem is that as long as they are willing to do things like this. Eventually non-violent resistance wont last.As long as they are willing to change the rules as they go along. It will eventually become impossible.
Its an absolute tragedy and I pray I am wrong. But if they are willing to break laws without any legal recourse. Eventually someone will decide to take extra legal measures.
helen makes Manju look brilliant. The good old days ….
Those who applaud the verdict, I submit, fall into two groups; one thinks it’s legitimate and the other knows it’s crooked as a cork screw and glory in it.
What do you think the proportions are?
Mythx
Things like this make me relive the sights and sounds and smells of the places I’ve been. It’s not a matter of if. It’s a matter of when.
Nature of Law
Goes on everyday, and most people never notice until it’s a Simpson or a Trump…
Can Republican states now arrest and convict Democrats? Start with Dade Phelan.
Just made my 1st ever political donation.
“All the D acquaintances are quite literally popping champagne. Some claiming they had a bottle stored away for this day. and gleefully celebrating this, in their words, triumph of justice.” physicsguy
Same. Really challenged by Jesus’s words to love our enemies, walk the extra mile etc. We would really love to just cut these people out of our lives, believing they do our family genuine harm. Prayers for us and our country.
The Trump Verdict: Guilty – Techno Fog Show trials and New York Justice:
Techno Fog does a fairly extensive analysis…
One of those things (men) is not like the other.
But it turned out that the juries were just the same.
This should trigger a massive outflow of people and capital out of NYC, and probably also out of NY State. And Trump will no doubt say that if they can do this to him, they can do it to anyone, and he will be right.
Yes, but on the other hand, the hatred of the Democrats and the Deep State for Trump seems uniquely focused on him. All of these indictments have the flavor of Bills of Attainder. The real message isn’t “Don’t do business in New York,” it’s “Don’t threaten the Deep State.”
Well, life in these United States just got a bit more perilous. So the Dems and the Swamp have taken it this far. How much farther?
Nonetheless, it is double-edged for them. Each time they lower the mask, the more Americans see them for what they are.
This court case and verdict, along with other recent events, reminded me of a quote from Walker Percy that I first encountered at Gerard’s site:
“Is it that God has at last removed his blessing from the U.S.A. and what we feel now is just the clank of the old historical machinery, the sudden jerking ahead of the roller-coaster cars as the chain catches hold and carries us back into history with its ordinary catastrophes, carries us out and up toward the brink from that felicitous and privileged siding where even unbelievers admitted that if it was not God who blessed the U.S.A., then at least some great good luck had befallen us, and that now the blessing or the luck is over, the machinery clanks, the chain catches hold, and the cars jerk forward?” ? Walker Percy, Love in the Ruins
https://americandigest.org/strange-daze-72/
“. . . I admit for holding out some hope that there would be at least one principled juror.” [Gregory Harper, 5:54 pm]
There were two attorneys in the jury. If there was at least one principled juror I would not be at all surprised if they verbally harassed and bullied him/her until they got the desired result.
BTW I thought it was standard practice to never allow attornys to serve on juries exactly for that reason; their greater knowledge of the law and their careers as “professional arguers” gives them a rhetorical power and, thus, potential influence that other jurors lack. Am I wrong about this?
One other observation: The irony of this entire situation is, IMO, that the judge wields power over Trump because Trump follows (and has followed) the law, however preverted it might be in the hands of the judge. Let’s say the judge orders Trump jailed; will the secret service permit him to be taken away? Will they be required to accompany him in a cell? Will they remain armed in prison?
One final thought: I find it hard to believe that the Trump camp did not see this coming. I also find it hard to believe that some contingency plan isn’t already in place. After all, the man’s history has shown that he is neither stupid nor unrealistic. Will there be somthing that catalyzes a backlash for this banana republic treatment of the judicial system?
We live in tnteresting times!
I am not a lawyer. I would be happy to hear from those who are or have legal training.
From the legal stuff I do read, it is certain that Trump will appeal and it is unlikely Trump will be sentenced to prison.
The damage is that Trump is now a convicted felon — however that plays out in the polls and however Dems can use that to impede Trump’s campaign.
Telemachus: I am about to do so as well. It’s all I can do.
Huxley: I read somewhere that might be best case scenario for Trump to be sentenced to prison because it would essentially accelerate the appeal due Trump being able to petition for a writ of habeas corpus.
I just started a book which opened with “Evil deeds never prosper.” Homer, The Odyssey
Seems fitting. Holding on to hope.
May God Bless America.
@helen:
Phony ballots and un-surveilled counting of same – Atlanta, Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Phoenix.
Read about all the law changes, and other rigging that went on here:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/02/irresponsible-hype-from-molly-ball-and-time-magazine/
The GOP is going to have observers, poll watchers, and registered voter rolls cleaned up this time. There will still be cheating, just not on such a massive scale.
“…popping champagne…”
They should understand that the same plot hatched to defenestrate Trump will be used RELENTLESSLY, with variations, to defenestrate the State of Israel.
(It’s already started—actually, it started in January 2016.)
Some of them may care…some not so much (if at all)…since everyone has their priorities…and one must celebrate while one can….
File under: “…exhilirating and energizing…”
https://nypost.com/2023/10/25/news/cornell-prof-who-found-hamas-attack-exhilarating-now-on-leave-of-absence/
Jimmy; threatening the deep state is not necessary. Failing to pay the proper officials will do it.
They investigated the hell out of Trump in NY and these two cases are the best they could come up with? If they had been able to find any real crime to pin on him, they surely would have charged him with that, wouldn’t they? Trump must be the most honest man ever elected to high office in this country.
Contributions to solid House, Senate, and Gubernatorial candidates are an important as contributions to the Trump candidacy.
Shaun Maguire, a partner at a Silicon Valley VC firm, voted for Hilary Clinton in 2016 and for neither candidate. He just made a large contribution to Trump. His essay is well worth reading:
https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1796293774794268747
Lesson that comes out of yesterday’s verdict:
In Bragg’s NYC, Trump would have been better off to push Stormy Daniels in front of an approaching subway than pay her off. People are walking free after doing so.
“Trump would have been better off to push Stormy Daniels in front of an approaching subway than pay her off. People are walking free after doing so.”
Reminds me of a recent family event where my niece-in-law just got her citizenship; she wore a red, white and blue dress she was so excited. She’s from Ecuador and the years of hoops she had to go through was absurd. I kept telling her to go to Mexico and cross over, then she would get everything handed to her. Still proud of her, but the two tier system is beyond parody at this point.
Physics guy, congratulations to your niece! America has always needed people like her.
The fact that people see different things in events that happen is getting harder and harder for me to understand. In 2020 my best friend told me that there’s no election fraud. It took me some digging to find the documents to an election fraud case (Democrat) convince him. Other comments I’ve seen are just as crazy, “Well if Trump didn’t want to be charged, he shouldn’t have done the crime” and “Vote Blue your freedom depends on it!”. In the case of my friend, he grew up in a state that has only 700,000 people now and a lot less when he was younger. He is also a lawyer and has held the ideal of American justice as sacred all his life. I’m not going to discuss Trump with him. He just doesn’t or won’t see what’s happening here. I have trouble believing that so many people today don’t. But there are. All it does is make me very sad.
To Helen.
We don’t need to prove election fraud. YOU need to prove that your elections are fair and free of fraud.
This isn’t a courtroom trial. This is YOU needing to convince US that YOU can be trusted. So far you have failed.