Rewarding the terrorists: Why do many people believe in the 2-state solution at this point, and want to reward Hamas with a state?
There are so many answers: leftism, Jew-hatred, neo-Marxism, ignorance of history, and plenty more.
But in this post I want to focus on one part of the answer, which can be summed up in this way: the alternative is too terrible to contemplate. Like the Gorgon, the actual face of evil and a situation so stark is a difficult thing to look at directly and contemplate deeply. The Go-Pro videos, the statements about wanting to kill Jews and commit the atrocities of October 7 over and over, the jihadi desire to take over the world, the tremendous brutality, and the approval of much of the Palestinian population for such barbaric violence not only is acutely painful to observe, but all the possible solutions are awful.
Much better to believe that we all want peace and that there is some sort of negotiated solution possible without so much violence. But it is crystal clear that it is a fantasy, even if it wasn’t quite as clear many decades ago.
This is the cold-eyed face of evil:
The 47-year-old Hamas terrorist Jamal Radi, accompanied by his 18-year-old son Abdallah, confessed to raping and killing several women as they wreaked havoc through the southern Israeli Kibbutz of Nir Oz, video footage of the Israeli interrogation obtained by the UK newspaper Daily Mail shows.
Jamal, the father of seven captured by the IDF inside Gaza, showed no remorse during the interrogation. “She was screaming, she was crying, I did what I did, I raped her,” he told Israeli interrogators, confessing to one of many rapes and murders he committed on October 7 with the help of his son and other Hamas attackers. …
These crimes committed by Hamas, much like those previously by the Islamic State, were in accordance with the doctrine of jihad warfare. Mass rape, beheadings, mutilation of corpses, and taking of hostages on October 7 were part of Hamas’s meticulously planned attack. Hamas ordered the terrorist intruders to ‘kill, behead, rape,’ a captured attacker told Israeli interrogators in late October.
The disturbing confessions come to light a day after a new video surfaced showing Hamas terrorists kidnapping five Israeli soldiers on October 7. The footage shows captured women with their faces smeared with blood and terrorists boasting of raping them once in Gaza. The clip also shows armed Hamas terrorists offering Islamic prayers with the female captives tied up behind them.
The Daily Mail article calls this father-son pair “evil,” and they certainly are that. But they are not isolated sociopaths like Ariel Castro (remember him, the Ohio man who kidnapped teenagers and kept them as his tortured sexual slaves for many years?). They may indeed be sociopaths or psychopaths (the difference has never been totally clear to me), but they are certainly not isolated. Their violence has been carefully nurtured by a government and a society that encourages and rewards it. They are adherents of a branch of Islam that allows this for infidel women; thus, the Islamic prayers.
And there are very many people like them in Palestinian society. This is a huge problem, and 2 states will not solve it. The Palestinians plan to use their state to destroy Israel, and any government that recognizes that state is rewarding this sort of rape, torture, and murder – even as they mouth words of “peace.”
For example, we have the governments of Norway, Spain, and Ireland:
Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris told a Wednesday news conference in Dublin: “Today, Ireland, Norway and Spain are announcing that we recognize the state of Palestine. Each of us will now undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to that decision.”
“There is never a wrong time to do the right thing,” Harris later said, speaking to CNN’s Christiana Amanpour on Thursday.
In what universe is this “the right thing?” In the universe of what Ayn Rand referred to as “altruism,” which can be loosely summarized by the old Jewish saying: “He who is compassionate to the cruel will ultimately become cruel to the compassionate.”
The people in this video are part of the Ayn Rand Center, and they discuss the Objectivist approach. I don’t always agree with Rand, but I certainly agree with these excerpts – and they don’t pull their punches. I’ve cued up a 14-minute segment and a 4-minute one (again, if you’re impatient, you can speed the video up by going to “settings”):
With decades of training in hate, the residents of Gaza, led by Hamas and enabled by the UN, have made themselves into an entity like ISIS, where barbaric brutality and sexual slavery of captured women are normal. Islam, sadly, lends itself to sociopathy because these things are found in its foundational teachings. I once saw the late Nabeel Qureshi, who finally left Islam and became Christian when he searched the Qur’an and hadith and found that indeed captured women become sexual slaves. He thought of his mother and sister and was appalled. But he was an Ahmadi Muslim, a pacifist sect. Mainstream Sunni and Shia are less likely to disapprove of the violent teachings.
Just as nations ought not to recognize ISIS entities anywhere, they ought not to recognize ISIS-in-Gaza (Hamas), and they ought not to pretend that Fatah/PA are significantly better.
I think the real reason is that first world people are socialized in a way that forces them to pull their punches, because going all the way would make them ashamed of themselves. We’ve all been told over and over, we have to be better than them, etc. and most people believe this. I’m partly immune to this, and I agree with Jonathan Pollard and other hardliners, who say things like, Gaza should have been carpet bombed on Oct. 7, problem solved.
I don’t feel I have to be better than anyone. It’s better to be alive than not, and if that means committing atrocities in the eyes of stupid antisemites, fine. I don’t care. Pollard has a good conscience, and so do I. This is because learning to be ashamed of self defense is a sickness, and people can overcome this conditioning if they want to.
People’s reactions to the recent video of those Israeli girls waiting for Hamas to come and get them is an acid test. Everyone evades the issue and says the usual stupid, useless things. Oh, those monsters, those poor girls. That was not my reaction at all. I thought, if one or two girls had had a gun, the outcome would have been different. There would have been a brief gunfight, a few girls would have been shot, but all the others would have been okay. Some time after I viewed that video, I learned the context. They were Israeli women soldiers on a base! This is what people should be ashamed of, not one’s healthy thoughts about carpet bombing Gaza, but shame that Israeli soldiers on a base sat around looking at their phones, being afraid, while they waited for what they knew would happen. Shame on Israel and the entire West for enabling this behavior.
Eloi groveling to morlocks for all the good it does there was a chechen utility worker? From chicago that tried to ambush an special forces operative in north carolina
feral lunch lady:
They were not combat soldiers. They were military personnel who were observers on an observation base. They were pulled out of their beds while sleeping, after warning systems had been disabled and guards killed.
The Israeli military relied too much on technology.
Also, it is a small country constantly under attack. Virtually everyone must do military service; that’s why women are drafted. But these women were not combat soldiers, and as I said, they had been asleep.
One other thing – the base was attacked by a very large force.
We want to think we (humanity as a while) are better than that. We want to think the every confrontation can be worked out by just talking long enough.
There are some people who view cruelty as a sign of power, and are attracted to it. I’m reminded of those women who fall in love with serial killers and other criminals of a particularly appalling sort.
And cruelty calls to cruelty….those who enjoy canceling and humiliating their political opponents on American campuses see likely to admire the more direct and physical forms of cruelty exercised by Hamas.
neo: I don’t know the whole story about the video, but I’m right. You don’t have to be a combat soldier to defend yourself. When I lived in rural Oregon with sketchy neighbors and bears, I always had a shotgun nearby, it wasn’t locked up for special occasions, to be decided on by leftist lawyers. When Israelis and Jews and all decent people get this, things will change, and not until then. And I’d rather die in a fight than be raped to death without firing a shot.
It always comes back to what the Jews mean by “Never Again”. Whether Hamas and their adherents remain stateless or become the State of Palestine, violence will be the Medium of communication. Netanyahu has demonstrated that he has been infected by the disease of gentlemanly war. We hear constantly that the Jews are conducting the cleanest, most “civilian” friendly warfare ever seen. Why is that nonsense being allowed? War is Hell and modern leaders since Truman have pretended that war can be gentle. Surgical strikes only. Etc. So whether we have Hamas or Palestine, the Jews must either find their balls or accept endless war. Never Again….Until the next time.
When have any Palestinians accepted a two state solution?
Rewarding the terrorists: Why do many people believe in the 2-state solution at this point, and want to reward Hamas with a state?
If the question is not asked rhetorically, then the best way to answer it is to examine the strongest arguments put forward by those who believe it, summarizing them in a way that those people would consider fair.
Almost nobody online, left or right, ever does this for any “why do they believe” question. What they do instead is explain why these are bad and dumb people, and then the belief flows from their badness and dumbness. So when people on the Left ask themselves why conservatives are opposed to legal abortion, they decide that it’s because conservatives hate women, minorities and poor people and want to do them harm. When people on the Right ask themselves why people on the Left believe whatever you generally get the same kind of answer.
As for supporting statehood for Hamas, I personally don’t have any wish to understand why those who support it do so. But if I really wanted to know, I would seek out their strongest arguments and summarize them in a way they agreed were fair. And then I’d know.
Taking the trouble to do the exercise, the occasions I have done it, has rarely changed my mind about what I thought, but it certainly made it me much better informed about the issue. It’s a lot more work, though, than assuming that people are dumb and bad, and the online world exhibits a sort of Gresham’s law of discourse. I think the Left would consider it “platforming” to fairly state the strongest arguments of the Right on any issue.
Hamas delenda est
Their reward should be death. They are a culture this planet would be better off with them eradicated. Or they will do it again and again, and again.
I want to focus on one part of the answer, which can be summed up in this way: the alternative is too terrible to contemplate. Like the Gorgon, the actual face of evil and a situation so stark is a difficult thing to look at directly and contemplate deeply.
–neo
I think this hits an important bullseye, though only one as stated.
I remember my sojourn among progressive Christians. Christian-Muslim conflicts were always reduced to a school playground analogy. Two kids get into fight. Both are guilty and separated. Problem solved until one kid acts up again, even if it’s always the same kid.
Kumbaya.
Actually this is going in American schools. A recent example I read was about a black girl grabbing an athletic trophy and bashing a white girl in the head with it. The white girl, happily still conscious, fought back.
Both were suspended. Both were considered equally guilty.
Of course, anyone sensible can see this approach is an invitation to psychopaths to strike the first blow, perhaps terrible, and get away with a time-out.
Niketas Choniates, the people protesting in the US generally speaking support Hamas because they believe a propagandized version of the history of the area which bears little resemblance to actual history. This applies to most American leftists. Another cohort are the Muslim and Arab supremacists who hate Jews and Israel for racist/ethnic and religious reasons. The first group could theoretically be reached with an education effort, although most such people are not interested in reasoning.
feral lunch lady:
First of all, they had tons of electronic warnings and armed guards. You did not, so you slept with a shotgun. Completely different situation.
Secondly, if 250 armed neighbors and/or 250 bears had come in to kill you, your shotgun wouldn’t have done you a whole lot of good. The terrorists had massive intelligence about the base, and meticulous planning and a large force.
Universal Jew hatred. Anyone know sign language?
https://youtube.com/shorts/D788GUFs2Ac?si=nOPAUV-5e9T_9rRu
Ok so ScotttheBadger advocates a genocide of those who call themselves “Palestinian.” Keith seems sympathetic. I confess a part of me nods silently in anguished agreement… like having to kill a pet with rabies. I suspect we three are not alone.
Since that isn’t on the table (who’s going to do it?) And since a two-state remedy isn’t workable except as a stalling tactic before the next attack, and since no one with an effective will will name Islam as the demon in the room… What then?
The formerly Christian West is riddled with anti-Semites and Muslim sleeper cells and useful idiots and sheep. From where does a “solution” come? And what is a “solution” that will be enforceable outside of Jewish slaughter or ForeverWar in ever-increasing increments?
Which argument do you want mr choniates the nakbah they stole the land the holocaust didnt happen and it was a good thing they are all insane propositions
Those who are fighters but also those who are enablers ansars the war was declared in 98 or 79 or probably 73 pick a date
John+Guilfoyle:
You lay out the conundrum. I don’t have a happy solution. I don’t think there is one beyond waiting the bastids out while avoiding too much damage.
I say Islam is on the wrong side of history — morally, spiritually, practically, and technologically. Islam is supremacist, so it won’t stop trying to conquer, but they’ve got a losing hand even against Israel.
Their game is to provoke but just so much, so the proportionate response argument protects them. But if the West or even Israel decides to take Islam out it would be toast.
However, that doesn’t mean the US can turn Iraq into Minnesota.
Michigan, maybe.
@Kate: the people protesting in the US generally speaking support Hamas because…
Did you seek out their strongest arguments and summarize them here in a way they would agree was fair? The governments of Ireland, Spain, and Norway are not to any significant extent, I’m pretty sure, made up of American leftists or Muslims, so if you want to know what their thought process for recognizing a Palestinian state was you’d need to look elsewhere.
@miguel:Which argument do you want mr choniates
I already said I’m not interested in why the people recognizing the Palestinian state think what they do on this issue. But what I am interested in is people who engage with ideas instead of assigning people to the dumb and bad side and attributing invidious motives to them.
It’s not that there’s no dumb and bad people opposing Israel (or supporting it for that matter). Hamas fighters aren’t represented in the governments neo was talking about in the post. So Hamas fighters’ reasons aren’t probably relevant.
What you say about the Nakbah or Holocaust denial are probably things that weren’t underpinning the thinking of the governments of Ireland, Spain, and Norway, but if you find a good source that shows they did rely on say Holocaust denial I’ll be glad to look at it.
neo: I don’t have a problem with what you say about the video, they were doomed anyway because of the numbers, and maybe guns wouldn’t have made a difference. But my real point is that it does no good when people go on about the moral failings of the terrorists, the end. This enables complacency, which is what led to the attack in the first place. There is no point in trying to change the mentality of the enemy. The Israelis must change their mentality, and they already have. I read that one of the destroyed kibbitzim now has a sign up that reads, Never forget what Amalek did to you. This is the change in mentality that is needed, and it has already happened. For leftist Israeli kibbutzniks to refer to Amalek, who were the biblical enemy Hashem ordered to completely destroy, shows that even Israeli leftists have learned the lesson.
The American government and other deluded people are talking about educating future generations of Gazans to be peaceful. I say, let the Israelis be educated about Amalek, and the Gazan mindset will be irrelevant. And the solution will involve a shotgun in every bedroom, because after a few incidents, the bears actually do learn.
I use 73 because the oil embargo that ironically made the saudis richer led the juheyman siege and then bin laden
Western guilt the qatari influence in france and spain through the sports franchises among others paliwood propaganda the tripe in the letter from bin laden
The Israeli military relied too much on technology.
And not for the first time. After the astounding performance turned in by Israeli armor in the Six-Day war — when fast moving, hard-hitting Israeli tank groupings utterly destroyed Egyptian armored formations — the Israelis decided that armor/tanks was the way to go. In the aftermath of that war they reconfigured their ground forces to be very “tank-heavy”: infantry was de-emphasized. This proved nearly catastrophic to the IDF in the opening stages of the Yom Kippur war, when Israeli tank groupings unsupported (hence unprotected) by infantry suffered significant losses at the hands of swarming Egyptian infantry armed with hand-held “suitcase” Sagger anti-tank rocket systems. The Israeli infantry that should have engaged the Egyptian tank-buster teams was largely unavailable. Thus the Israelis had to relearn, the hard way, a fundamental law of modern combined arms warfare: one never sends tanks into battle without infantry support.
Curiously, but not unexpectedly, the Russians made the same mistake, and have suffered huge AFV losses as a result, when they invaded Ukraine. I can’t count the number of videos of the fighting in Ukraine in which Russian tank columns, absent infantry support, were decimated Ukrainian antitank infantry teams armed Javelins and other handheld missile weapon systems.
This is all very interesting to me. My primary focus as a military historian-slash-military affairs writer is the complex interaction between technology and tactics and how that interaction manifests on the battlefield. That interaction is quite protean in nature. The balance of advantage is ever-shifting. Technology determines tactics which determine technology, and so on. Wash, rinse, repeat forever. Fascinating.
“Why do many people believe in the 2-state solution at this point, and want to reward Hamas with a state?”
They want to reward Hamas with a ‘state’ in hopes that at least during their lives, the crocodile will be satiated. People who still cling to a two-state ‘solution’ do so because the alternative requires facing squarely up to the evil that is Islam. Hamas is just one of the Islamic Hydra’s heads. The West is infested with moral cowardice, the natural result of a broken moral compass.
Will Islamists / Kill the Infidel cult give that up? Until they do I guess they will have to be put down, like a wild animal infected with rabies. They aren’t domesticated.
IrishOtter49:
There were other lessons from the Yom Kippur war besides combined arms. The Merkava series of tanks are one, other types of tank armor are another, getting hydraulic systems out of fighting compartments are a third. The slaughter of Syrian armour on the Golan Heights is in another class altoghether.
If their strongest arguments are based upon falsehoods, how can I treat this “fairly” other than to point out the falsehoods?
@Kate:If their strongest arguments are based upon falsehoods
Who’s “they”? You talked about American leftists and Muslims. But they are not the governments of Ireland, Spain, and Norway. So I’m not seeing that you know what “their” strongest arguments are for why they chose to recognize Palestine. I’m sure a leftist would say my opposition to legal abortion is all based on hate and falsehoods so they can’t be “fair” to me either–but they haven’t asked me why I believe what I do.
If you really did go and find that out, that’s fine, I’ll take your word for it that you did. If you didn’t, then that’s fine too. I don’t really care. I’m not a trustworthy source for what those arguments might be because I oppose what those governments did. I’m not fired up about it because 75% of UN member nations already did this, including many in the EU, and it’s in the media today only to make the monkeys jump.
The thing I care about, is that to answer the question “why do people believe X” you have to engage with them in good faith to find out why. I said further that few people online, left or right, do this, instead they just say that people who believe X are dumb and bad people and they have dumb and bad reasons.
Since then, I’ve seen several commenters reiterate that the people who support a two-state solution are dumb and bad with dumb and bad reasons for their support.
The next iteration is going to be someone saying I’m dumb and bad for saying that it’s not sufficient to say people are dumb and bad in order to understand why they believe what they do. I’m cool with that because it’s not my first day online.
In 1973, the Israeli Air Force got the crap shot out of it by the SA-6 at the start of the of the war. Something like 30 planes downed on the first afternoon.
A week after the vile attack, Nixon ordered operation Nickle Grass which included combat aircraft taken directly from US units and send to Israel for resupply. One of the deployed carriers was enroute to transfer their fighters to Israel on the way home when the war ended.
Air Power Baby
Islam will have to be beaten/killed in every western country. It is simply the enemy of the West. We will not do it because we lack the will, are too fragmented and have no culture with which to resist.
Neo
After the, IIRC, the ’48 War, women were no longer in Israeli combat arms.
But, as with most armies, everybody gets some combat training in Basic. At the least, they would competent fillers for static defenses. When i was in , Basic made you at least a beginner Infantyman.
Unlike other armies the Israelis published endless pictures of beautiful female soldiers doing combat-like training evolutions. But that was Basic.
Among other things, one was led to wonder if there were any homely female troopers at all.
And, of course, with their rifles on the beach.
Partly, I imagine, it was to assert “plucky little Israel is so ready that even the Homecoming queen will shoot your brains out”
That was then, when according to frequent photos, nearly every Israeli went about armed.
Now, as has been reported, higher command was tired of hearing about goings-on across the border. And the troops were disarmed.
So,unless someone had fiddled an unauthorized pistol higher did not know about, these poor women were helpless, despite having been trained at least to a Basic level of effectiveness.
Seems a lot of higher-ups were cashing a,non-existent peace dividend.
I don’t see that the arguments of these European countries are essentially different from the arguments of American leftists, that is, they accept the Palestinian propaganda campaign based on inaccurate history. I don’t think that these countries are relying on the Muslim Jew-hatred which is in the Muslim religious foundational sources.
Did you seek out their strongest arguments and summarize them here in a way they would agree was fair? The governments of Ireland, Spain, and Norway are not to any significant extent, I’m pretty sure, made up of American leftists or Muslims, so if you want to know what their thought process for recognizing a Palestinian state was you’d need to look elsewhere.
==
They have no arguments, merely poses. Two of these countries are inconsequential in the international sphere. The third is of modest significance. Their endorsements are of scant effect. You have members of the political and administrative class striking attitudes. Screw ’em.
Chases Eagles: After taking heavy air losses to Soviet-supplied SAMs in 1973, the Israelis dreamed up a better approach. In 1982 they used RPVs to bait and locate the Syrian SAM sites in the Bekaa Valley, and took them out as a prelude to destroying the Syrian air force. It was the first complete defeat of a modern air defense system, and the beginning of modern drone warfare.
I know consider the source
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/palestinians-stranded-gaza-after-paying-egypt-5000-each-flee
https://x.com/chiIIum/status/1794333669978759245
I would say one of the reasons is among our remnant there is still a strong christian foundation those three countries have largely jettisoned that
Show us where the arguments are different in europe than the us
@miguel:Show us where the arguments are different in europe than the us
Is this directed at me? If YOU want to understand why they believe a two-state solution is the right thing to do, YOU need to seek out and engage with their best arguments. I don’t agree with them, I am not a valid source, and I’m not interested in doing that on this issue.
If you DON’T want to understand why they believe a two-state solution is the right thing to do, you need do nothing.
But you WON’T understand why they believe a two-state solution is the right thing to do if you just ASSUME you know why they believe it. And that’s fine, if that’s what you choose. Getting together with mostly like-minded people to talk about how bad and dumb people disagree with you because they have bad and dumb reasons is like 95% of the online experience that isn’t cat videos or porn.
@Art Deco:Two of these countries are inconsequential in the international sphere. The third is of modest significance. Their endorsements are of scant effect.
I agree with this 100%, which is one reason I’m not that interested in doing the work to understand their reasons for it. In addition, that it’s being made headline news when most nations have already done the same thing, it’s just the media using an event to push a narrative.
Yesterday, footage was screened in NY’s Times Square showing the violent abduction of the female Israelis. Perhaps this might cause some people to see what they have never seen before.
https://x.com/IsraelinNewYork/status/1794071472803115191
This seems to be the routine:
Because the palestinian authority has proved a good steward well that cant be it,
instead of seeing what they do?
Miguel, I agree, they don’t appear to be good stewards.
@om:How dare YOU question what I have to say. If YOU were as smart as ME and used MY approach I could have an intelligent conversation.
Have “YOU” asked the Palestinian authority what they think….
Two “quotes” you completely made up, as usual, but that behavior only discredits you. I have never seen you once respond to anyone in good faith, just to straw men you’re not ashamed to lie to create. You made a deliberate choice to use the blockquote as though you were quoting someone. You’re as dishonest as any Leftist and you damage any viewpoint you endorse by associating yourself and your tactics with it.
You’ve got a few other signature moves: telling someone to shut up because you don’t want them to post about whatever it is, lying about someone to the commentariat generally without addressing them directly, or that one note from Joe McCarthy’s kazoo. Don’t particularly care which one you field next as they are all predictable and you don’t seem to have anything new.
we’ve seen this movie, under the tenet plan, fatah officials were brought to langley, and other locations to train with all the modern equipment, what did they do with it,
they armed the al Aqsa brigades to target Israel, after that intifada, the fourth by my count, they lost out to supposedly less well equipped Hamas in Gaza, in 2006-7
you say well that ancient history, consider what luminaries and officials of the authority had said and done in the last seven months some members did participate on October 7th, others have continued to pay Mortars,
like the Aliens in Independence Day, they are very clear about their goals, ‘they want you to die’ and not just Yahud, thats Jews but Munayfakin, thats the term for those considered hypocrites like the Saudi Royals, and polytheists, mushrikum, thats us who have another faith or no faith at all the ones they are most amused by, are the totally haram, like queers for Palestine, who will merit any one of Effendi Quradawi’s favorite stones,
Because the solution has been out of fashion these past 79 years, and is particularly painful for the Israelis to contemplate?
The Israeli state is illegitimate. Neither the colonial master, the UK, nor the UN (still a military alliance) had the authority to take land away from the native Palestinians and to give it to European Ashkenazi colonists. The only fair solution to the 80 year old war is to dismantle the Israeli state, deport the Ashkenazis back to their European homelands, and to set up a Palestinian state that governs the whole region from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.
The Ashkenazis are not innocent victims, they are the aggressors. They have no right to any part of Palestine, and under international law, as the aggressors, they have no right of self defense.
Niketas;
“This seems to be the routine.” That is called a clue that it is not a direct quote.
Blockquote was used to highlight the hyperbole applied to your style.
People use different styles to communicate. Analogy, metaphor. Questioning the underlying assumption of an argument is another approach, Calling someone a leftist is a weak move and not original. But you be you.
But enough about details and ego, bob sykes is back.
And here we have “bob sykes,” who is a prime example of someone who swallows invented history hook, line, and sinker. Commenters here, and the blog host, have cited facts and statistics to such people repeatedly, but unfortunately their minds are not open to receive facts.
The bad news is that Islam cannot be eradicated. Many million humans live under Islamic fervor and rule. But Islam must not be fed by people like our prez, Dopey Joe, who want to feed the Gazans, most of whom by polls support Hamas.
I am all in favor of Israel doing some carpet bombing of Gaza, like the US did to Nazi Germany in WWII, but you see the entire world is anti-Israel and anti-semitic, and is not Christian. Norway and Ireland are trash anti-Christian countries; Ireland now has in its Constitution an anti-abortion clause, so look for population attenuation!
What the US must do is cease ALL foreign aid to Muslim countries. ASAP.
But with weenies like Blinken, Majorkas and Buttigieg in the Cabinet getting Dopey Joe’s ear, there is no hope until Trump becomes president.
history as santayana put it, must be remembered or else it is repeated,
certainly the oil embargo allowed the path of eurabianization, in Western Europe, of course we know the West Germans enabled Munich through inaction or action, on the 36th anniversary of the Olympics, thank Avery, a scribe like Peter Jennings,when he wasn’t actively networking was apparently approving of same, the French after Degaulle surrendered Algeria, turned notably Arabist, Framatome’s work on the Iranian reactor at Natanz, Chiraq’s involvement with Tammuz 16, and De’staings involvement in settling the Grand Mosque Siege with GIGN Paras were examples, of this pattern,
the immigration that came from North Africa, largely first the harkis who had worked with the settlers, then other, certainly by the 90s, their influence was seen in the Metros and other location, the French assistance to the Algerian government was a pretext for same, the ban lieus started to become a warzone,
Now why does London become Londinistan then, because they failed to head Polyglot fmr intel officer Enoch Powell’s warning, some one as fluent in Urdu as Greek, knew what was coming, was it inevitable, after Suez, and Aden, probably but not as fast as it turned out to be,
WSJ headline today, which I cannot copy, reads “The US spent $320 million to get aid to Gazans. Little of it has reached them”. Dopey Joe and his Democrats at work aiding evil, feeding Hamas.
Why do many people believe in the 2-state solution? Because they are ignorant of the history and ignorant of who Hamas is and what they say they want.
they seem to have a hard time realizing the obvious, as I noted up thread, there is a thriving business among the tribesman of the Sinai, which is where I think some portion of the main element of Hamas has come to settle, now average residents of those former communities good luck,
of course this comes from the tabloid side of Al Jazeera, Middle East Eye, which wants to tarnish Al Sisi’s handling well he has lost any benefit of the doubt with the Work of Spymaster Khalek, who tried to put forward that phony ceasefire, I think that was his name,
So of course a international kangaroo tribal presided by South Africa, which is busy in it’s Zimbabwezisation program of killing the Boer, (which the Times assures us, is not inflammatory in the least,) is willing to follow its revolutionary kin in Fatah, possibly to curry favor with their brethren in Durban, most of the latter were trained in Eastern Europe or by Eastern European operatives, like those behind the Red Army Faction, the Brigatte Rossi, Action Directe, the IRA what have you,
things I would not have predicted on a crystal ball,
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/05/25/john-fetterman-democrat-senator-biden-israel-netanyahu/
sadly the rest of the Possums seem to be Mummenschanz Casey does a great impression of Michigan j Frog, Schumer seems to be singularly obsessed on lethe, pot
legalization, and abortion, one must grovelto Moloch, no consideration how these newcomers from West Africa to South Asia, feel about it, and furthering the Reconquista, or Al Hijra, as for the other senator from Gotham Gillebrand anybody home, Danang Blumenthal, who knows what his deal, and we have my paisan Menendez, who tried the Jizda from Egypt and Qatar,
The reason you saw Israeli women carrying M-16s at the beach, riding bikes and the like (with NO mags by the way) was they are responsible for the weapon and they keep it on them because otherwise it might grow legs.
I would say it’s not mere ignorance, I mean take Tom Friedman, he should know better, but he has been consistently wrong way for more than 40 years, it takes skill for this unblemished track record, of category error since Shatila, the Post probably has as long a track record since Karen Young, did she retire,
on the policy front, probably paul pillar wins the gold medal, with John Brennan close behind, Brennan was so disregarded by Bob Baer in his memoir that he didn’t even name him,
But enough about details and ego, bob sykes is back.
==
bob sykes is here to remind us that the palaeo / alt-right segment of opinion is an island of misfit toys.
chases eagles
As to the rifles; right. But that’s because the weapons were officially issued. If the weapons are not issued…..they’re not carried anywhere.
making my earlier point
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/b1aoiqjvc
Kosovo, South Africa, Afghanistan, Iran, … why not.
Related?
“Biden’s $320M Gaza Pier Has Detached & Drifted Onto Israeli Beach”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/bidens-320m-gaza-pier-has-detached-drifted-israeli-beach
How ’bout this?
“US Special Forces Operator Kills Undocumented Chechen Outside Home In Possible Spy Incident”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-special-forces-operator-kills-undocumented-chechen-outside-home-using-telephoto
Opening graf:
Yep, “All the [LIES] that’s fit to print”….
(Except that NOBODY could print all of “Biden”‘s lies, even if they wanted to…)
+ Bonus…of a sort
“Inflation To The Nines”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/inflation-nines
I’ve seen local reporting about that incident with the Chechens by a Special Forces soldier here in NC, and I also saw a piece about it on Fox News the other evening (Bret Baier’s news show).
Information is being held very closely, and the soldier involved, who shot the intruder, has not been charged. We are not told if he will be.
miguel cervantes, you are on fire today. On most days, actually. You, sir, are awesome.
@bob Sykes
Prove it. On what grounds is it illegitimate?
It is not because it is a despotism that is not accountable to the governed. It is a democratic republic that while imperfect (I can rant a great deal about its confessional problems) is still much better than any other country in the Middle East.
It is not because it was a country with no ancestral connection to the land, as the history of the Jews in the region is well documented na she’s been for thousands of years. This was not Rhodesia which staked much of its legitimacy on the “Great Zimbabwe was built by a white master race we have no historical record off lie.
So if Israel is illegitimate, I ask you: what government or state IS NOT?!? It sure as hell is not the various Islamo-Fascist regimes in the so called Palestinian Authority, or their hybrid NazBol Marxist colleagues like the PFLP.
Moreover, this is fucking irrelevant deflection at best. Even if I granted for the sake of your idiotic, evil argumentation that the Israeli State is not legitimate, that DOES NOT justify rape, kidnapping, murder, slavery, and genocide against children, tourists, and civilians.
Dear god what racist, historically illiterate bullshit this is.
Firstly: the “native Palestinians” ARE THE JEWS. This is attested to for thousands of years, including in contemporary documents. Even among Balestinian Arab apologists the earliest date I have yet seen for Arabs of the region considering themselves “Palestinians” or “Balestinians” as a nation was in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and THAT was a direct result of Christian missionary work in the late Ottoman Era, and there was essentially no mainstream use of it by Arabs until the 1960s. In contrast it was commonly used to refer to the Jews.
Secondly: Anybody claiming the Jews that did immigrate to the region were all “Ashkenazi” is a historically illiterate racist motherfucking idiot, which fits your description perfectly. In reality non-Ashkenazi were present throughout the various Aliyahs, and many of the oldest were Sephardim and Northern European Jews.
Thirdly: this ignores that the oldest Jewish populations in the region never left. The Old City of Jerusalem had connections going back to the Jewish repopulation of Jerusalem after the brief Roman renaming of it. That was about 2,000 years ago, and even those were the descendants of populations that go back about a thousand plus years. Hence the Merneptah Stele.
Fourthly: Neither the UN nor the British took the land from “the native Palestinians”. They took it from the foreign Ottoman Turkish Empire that governed the region as an occupying colonial power and treated Arabs as second class citizens. And that was an improvement from when Ottoman rule was displaced by Muhummad Ali’s Egyptian Khedieve, which ruled so brutally that they caused about as many deaths and dislocations in about two decades in the region as the entire series of wars and terrorist attacks in Israel/Palestine has since WWI.
And the Ottomans took it from the Mamluks Sultanate to Egypt, an authoritarian stratocratic military junta of former slave soldiers who viewed Arabs as foreign peasants even in Egypt, let alone in the Levant.
To claim otherwise is to reveal historical illiteracy, staggering bigotry, or in your case likely both.
How is it fair to give an Islamo-Fascist, genocidal dictatorship that does not even allow competitive elections for its own people a Fucking Empire?
And that’s assuming they actually STICK to the terms you propose, because apparently you are such a Jew Hating Israel Hating IDIOT you have not studied things like Balestinian Arab Ultranationalism, such as the desire to forcibly annex territories like the Kingdom of Jordan.
And more importantly, it is nothing less than unjust and genocidal to demand the deportation of either the oldest or second oldest continuous nation on Earth from its homeland to satisfy the dreams of a demented Holocaust Collaborator like Amin Al Husseini and his modern day political heirs.
OH ALSO DUMBFUcK: WHAT DO YOU DO WITH SEPHARDIM, BETA ISRAEL, ISRAELI ARABS, DRUZE, AND OTHER NON-ASHKENAZIM?!?
I think we know what you and the terrorist cults you idealize would do.
Firstly: And Arabs are?
Secondly: To refer to the “non innocence” of an entire ethnic or national group is an exercise in evil. There are innocents and non-innocents in every group. Which you seek to ignore because you are trying to gin up support for fucking genocide (oh but I’m sure you are claiming you intend to deport the Israelis, not genocide them… which is “merely” ethnic cleansing).
Then prove it. Cite the fucking date and time.
Because I am very sure you do not know the history of this region or the conflicts better than I. And I can debunk that: especially given the Sheikh Qassem and the aforementioned Al Husseini clan.
Probably fucking false according to the law, including the overwhelming amount of Ottoman property laws we have as well as immigration and settlement papers. Because unlike subhuman blood libel peddlers like you, history did not begin in 1919. Jewish (including yes Ashkenazi) immigration to the region went back literal centuries, and the Old Yishuv goes back even further.
This is probably the most obscene horseshit you have written that I have seen. Which says a lot.
“Under international law….”
Ok dipshit. What international law? Cite it.
“No right to self defense”?
This is simply dehumanizing, genocidal evil. And completely contradictory of International Law. Self-Defense is an inherent human right. You do not waive it by being “the aggressor”, it simply might not apply. And as someone going through fisking BadEmpanada’s genocidal Jew hating bullshit including analyzing his (mis)use of things like the Srbrenica Trial verdicts, this is completely false.
The Court did not question whether the Serbs had the right to self defense, or even to attack Srbrenica. They rejected that they were attacking it out of self defense and also rejected their attacks were conducted legally. And this is basic logic.
In what world does a German civilian not have the right to strike back and kill a communist Polish soldier trying to murder or rape her just because she lived under Hitler, and his German Government waged an illegal war of aggression against Poland?
In what world does the soldier defending his post not have the right to fire back in any attackers to them, so long as he follows the rules of war?
That is not how the law works. And even if it had, it would indicate that the law was unjust and needs to be broken.
You are not merely a garbage human being, you are a historically, legally, and ethically illiterate idiot engaging in literal advocacy for genocide, and I hope Neo bans your scumbag ass for this.
Thanks i drew some of that information from ken timmerman some from trofimov and a few other sources
Now imagine if we had a 35 billion apparat they would know these things right which teip which clan do these chechens come from
The interesting thing – if “bob sykes” can be said to be interesting – is that he is not only an example of a Jew-hating, ignorant troll, but he is also an example of where the Jew-hating left and the Jew-hating right meet. He is not on the left, and yet on this subject he is indistinguishable from the left.
Probably time to say buh-bye to buh-bob.
Thanks Neo. I look forward.
Also typo. I meant to write “provably” rather than “probably” in terms of Israeli’s right to land. Mea culpa.
is that he is not only an example of a Jew-hating, ignorant troll,
==
My suspicion about bob sykes is either that he’s some sort of bot or he’s on the spectrum. He writes like someone who doesn’t have the slightest understanding about how social organisms accomplish anything. (There’s at least one other Arab partisan I encounter whose writing has that quality).
Ironically I am on the spectrum myself, but go figure. I at least work to counter it. Helps that some of my fixations were history and writing.
And very enlightening your fixations have been to commenters here, Turtler.
Seems to be a pattern
https://x.com/laralogan/status/1794456542214844505
Is that something our apparat should be concerned with
@ Kate > “Perhaps this might cause some people to see what they have never seen before.”
Some maybe, but not all.
https://notthebee.com/article/you-could-have-prevented-this-ilhan-omar-tells-ucla-chancellor-that-anonymous-group-who-played-october-7th-footage-outside-of-encampment-shouldve-been-stopped
IrishOtter, regarding your comment above:
Do you make use of parallels between tactical studies and microbiology? Antibiotic resistance suggests itself as an interesting (if rather painfully obvious) parallel.
As to the subject matter of the parent post: part of me is somewhat leaning toward being in favor of having an actual “Palestinian state,” only because if the wickedness can thus be concentrated into a certain defined area, it can be dealt with more easily in certain respects. But I note that my questions from a few weeks ago about what exactly this “Palestinian state” is to consist of remain open in my mind.
Turtler
Bob goes to various sites to spread bs. Been going on for years. Encounter him at cdr salamander and instapundit.
Bob you ran through the CCP money that fast?
“But in this post I want to focus on one part of the answer, which can be summed up in this way: the alternative is too terrible to contemplate. Like the Gorgon, the actual face of evil and a situation so stark is a difficult thing to look at directly and contemplate deeply. The Go-Pro videos, the statements about wanting to kill Jews and commit the atrocities of October 7 over and over, the jihadi desire to take over the world, the tremendous brutality, and the approval of much of the Palestinian population for such barbaric violence not only is acutely painful to observe, but all the possible solutions are awful.
Much better to believe that we all want peace and that there is some sort of negotiated solution possible without so much violence. But it is crystal clear that it is a fantasy, even if it wasn’t quite as clear many decades ago.” –neo
This^^^.
It was clear decades ago, BTW. But this is an old problem, deeply rooted in human nature.
I’m old enough to remember, back during the Cold War, when well-meaning, naive liberals reflexively blamed the United States in ever confrontation, direct or not, with the USSR. I was very young at the time, not yet an adult, but even I could see that reality didn’t match their words.
(I can remember listening to President Carter addressing the country and actually being amazed at his naivete. When a President has junior-high-age kids thinking he is an unworldly naif, he has a major PR issue going on. When those kids are _correct_, as I was at the time, a potential disaster is unfolding.)
Eventually I realized that part of it was sheer _desperation_ on the part of the naive ones. They hated what was happening, they were genuinely afraid of how it could all go wrong, but if the USA was at fault, then they could at least potentially change things by forcing policy changes. If the USSR was the aggressor, they were _powerless_ to change anything.
Which of course they were. The only net affect of all their efforts was to empower the enemy, in reality.
But nobody likes the feeling of helplessness. Everybody wants to believe there’s something you can _do_ . Sometimes there is, but life is full of situations where there’s just nothing. Someone I know is currently suffering from the final stages of stage four cancer. His doctors have told him that it’s more or less a matter of time, and every one of his friends and family are in that state of helplessness. It’s a loathsome feeling.
Admitting that Islamism is what it is carries that same feeling of helplessness, where all the potential responses are horrible, and so is doing nothing. It’s terribly, terribly tempting to indulge in quack solutions that give an illusion of control, whether it’s a quack cancer cure or ‘international law’.
Of course there are other motivations too. One of them is sheer inertia. A _lot_ of people and groups have been working away at the ‘two state solution’ for decades, and they’re professionally and emotionally invested in it. They don’t want to to have wasted all that time and money and energy, and it’s all they have, so they reflexively support it.
To Norway, Spain and Ireland: Tere is no right time to do the wrong thing.
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