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Flying while disabled — 21 Comments

  1. Most of my flying was on planes or helicopters that I was gonna jump from – probably less than 7 or 8 on other flights in my life. Now? With all the “Karens” and other crazies flying nowadays there is no way I’d be on a public flight. From pics & videos I have seen, there’s more room in a hot box w/ 4 other prisoners…Jeez!?!

  2. As I said in the open thread, SW can cut this abuse down to a manageable size by eliminating open seating. By not having reserved seats and an almost free for all boarding process, they open themselves to this. From the discussion board you quoted, I’m not the only one who notices the abuse.

  3. I love SWA but I have also noticed this problem. I have noted most entering requiring a wheelchair seem to be cured inflight and hustle off the plane when it lands. SWA could correct this by requiring those that use early boarding to be the last off. A tip, no need to upgrade when flying out of Orlando. Over half the plane boards early with children…

  4. Technically, the Disney part is incorrect. Most lines at Disney are wheelchair accessible, so renting a wheelchair or scooter hasn’t been a front of the line pass since…well, a long time. A few of the original attractions might not have accessible queues, but those are few and far between these days, and the number of wheelchairs lined up in the alternate way usually don’t save you any time.

    The issue is that Disney will give ANYONE what is essentially a free fastpass (or lightning lane as it’s called now) for anyone who claims to have one of a myriad of non-mobility issues – autism, anxiety, IBS, ADHD, PTSD, MS, Chrons, sun sensitivity…and they don’t ask for proof because of the whole HIPAA issue.

    However, because fastpasses now cost money and because there IS no system to check for actual disability, they’ve run into the issue where 70-80% of the lightning lane is the disability card holders. That makes the standby queue basically come to a standstill, and it backs the lightning lane up to make the paid LL users frustrated with their wait.

    Disney is now changing it to where they will ONLY give it out to guests with “developmental disabilities, such as autism,” and offer some sort of “return to line” pass for those with bathroom needs. They also say they are cracking down on the abusers, but they’re also still not asking for documentation, so…no idea how they’re going to know who is faking it and who isn’t.

    The changes don’t officially go into affect until May 20th, and they’ve been tight lipped as to how all these changes are going to actually work.

    Anyway, I know your post wasn’t about Disney – that was just a little aside in the commenter’s response – but I just wanted to hop in and flesh out that whole fiasco. Faking disabilities is DEFINITELY a huge issue at Disney, though it’s honestly their own doing for various reasons.

  5. Dear wife and I quit Southwest 100 percent due to its open seating policy.

  6. When I used to fly that airline, I’d rat out the “disabled” pre boarders who’d take an exit row seat. The last time I flew that airline, the flight attendants were better at watching it for that.

    (I no longer fly them. I know a piece of garbage who works for them and if they hire garbage like that, I can’t feel remotely safe on the airline.)

  7. Seems as if Homeless Guy could make a few bucks selling cheap canes from Temu at stoplight a block from airport

  8. 1. My Wife has a Car Placard for Disabled Parking spots. I do not use it, Period.
    2. Many yrs ago I saw a person park in a handicap parking space (do not remember if they had a placard or license plate). She got out and started walking to the Gym. I looked at her, I asked her why she was parking in handicap parking. She turned to me and raised her pant leg – prothesis leg. I apologized and she replied no problem and thanks for noticing the handicap parking.
    3. When we fly we do try to board first because we would hold up the boarding process for others.

  9. When my mother was still alive, she had a handicapped placard. When I’d take her places, I’d drop her off at the door, help her to a bench, and then I would go park in the handicapped parking space. Because when we’d leave, she would never wait for me to go get the car and would start walking towards it. So instead, she and I would walk together to the car.

    I’m sure there were people giving me the evil eye when they saw me parking in a handicapped space.

  10. I’m a caregiver and travel companion for a seriously physically handicapped person (stroke) … our frustration with air travel is not the pre-board abuse, but the TSA abuse. My friend uses a cane that needs to be set to a specific height and the TSA will take it apart, I suppose to inspect for firearms or swords or something, then not put it back together again. And what’s worse, my friend requires a leg brace to walk, as well as the cane … sometimes, not always, the TSA will require him to go through without the brace because it has metal hardware on it , which is horribly dangerous for him … they could wand him instead, if they truly perceive him as a mortal threat. It is a gauntlet of torture for this poor man, and it’s different every time, so there is no preparing for it.

    You know how in some old novels the “authority bureau agents” are shown searching someone’s apartment and leaving it entirely in shambles with clothing and furniture sliced up, curtains torn down, lamps broken, furniture overturned, valuables missing, etc? Yeah, that’s what they do to my friend. He doesn’t travel very much any more. Matrix success.

  11. I liked the Southwest system once you could check in online. The last few years I did the wheelchair thing but now I don’t fly at all. Until this year I drove everywhere under 500 miles but that is over too. I did notice the growth in early boarding lines.

  12. I used to fly a lot internationally, and from quite an assortment of third world countries. I have often wryly noted the magical healing properties of long international flights, especially to NYC, Houston and Miami. A lot of people from South America and the Caribbean travel regularly to these cities in the US in order to shop for the many things they cannot get at home.

    Passengers that were pre-boarded in wheelchairs, with their entire retinue of minders (often 2 generations, and many babies) are accompanied onto the plane in a leisurely way, with many, many carry-on items. The wheelchairs line up at the boarding gate in the jetway, just like the planes line up outside on the taxiway.

    And then when the destination is reached, my goodness the spryness that is on display is remarkable. I really think the airlines should advertise their services and charge extra for the success of their spas. Maybe it’s the food.

  13. From my previous comment on this:
    “Unfortunately, although I’m 91, people say I look like I’m in my 60s. Thus, people give me dirty looks when I’m in a wheelchair. It’s a shame, because I really would prefer to still be hearty enough to deal with airports on my own. Sorry to be an annoyance to my fellow passengers.”

    My wife and I have never used wheelchairs for boarding. Once we get to the gate, we walk on board with everyone else. We’re not disabled, just old.

    Southwest’s seating system is a oner in the industry as far as I know. Also, that they have no first-class section sets them apart.

    It does speed things up during boarding. You’d be surprised how many late departures are due to boarding snags.

    If I was an airline CEO, my airline would have assigned seats, and board by rows, beginning at the back and proceeding forward. We flew on LAN from Santiago to Miami once. That’s the way they boarded their plane, and it was smooth and efficient. At least they could board coach that way. But if I had my druthers, and was sitting in first class, I’d like to board last. It’s more comfortable in the terminal than in the airplane, IMO.

    The airline industry has always been a difficult one. Herding people on to aluminum tubes efficiently, getting them to their destinations on time, and making money has been an elusive goal. Throw in the TSA and enormous airports with the attendant hikes to the gates, charges for bags, food, etc., and I’m amazed that the demand still seems to grow.

  14. }}} In an airport, a passenger is usually required to walk long distances and might be carrying or pushing a bag. Some people who look completely fine and are not all that old might have significant trouble doing those things without assistance.

    Indeed, I had a very elderly friend about 15 to 10 years ago (he passed away in Dec. 2013) who routinely flew to visit relatives. He was 80 to 85 in the timeframe above, and could walk ok, but could not handle the long distances in the concourses, so always had a golf-cart type ride from arrival to departure (usually Atlanta, for his flights — VERY understandable if you’ve been to the Atlanta airport! It’s not the worst, but you are likely to have a pretty long walk!).

    He also had a handicapped tag for his car. I often drove his car at that time (he’d had a stroke and was not a reliable driver any more — he could do ok for most functions, but had issues staying in-lane and judging distances), but I don’t believe I ever abused it — it was only used if he was in the car… I personally hate the ridiculous NUMBER of HC spaces there tend to be, but don’t approve of abusing the hang tags at all.

  15. I and the public know
    What all schoolchildren learn,
    Those to whom evil is done
    Do evil in return.

    Yeah, I just flat out disagree with this. Yes, it is often true, no argument. But there are a large class of people who rise above that — it’s an animal presentment — not pure animal, as animals don’t have any timebinding ability to remember “evils done” to them… but it’s an uncivilized and animalistic response to the world. There are, unquestionably people who know better than to let this govern them. And this is, by and large, what Christ was all about — the Sermon on the Mount is the heart of everything of Christian philosophy —

    The part on Retaliation (5:38) is of particular relevance. No, it’s not always easy to follow and obey, but it is expected for you to do your best to rise above the petty anger and revenge of “evils done to me”. The idea is, that such “revenge” is God’s place, not yours.

    Not everyone need be a Christian to see the wisdom in this. Gandhi was no Christian, but even he saw, “An Eye For An Eye only makes the whole world blind” (see after for another observation):

    The Sermon on the Mount (Matthew)

    5

    1 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.

    The Beatitudes
    2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:

    3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

    5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

    6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

    7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

    8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

    9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons[a] of God.

    10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

    Salt and Light
    13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet.

    14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[b] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

    Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Anger
    21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[c] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[d] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[e] of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.[f]

    Lust
    27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

    Divorce
    31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

    Oaths
    33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.[g]

    Retaliation
    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,[h] let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

    Love Your Enemies
    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers,[i] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Giving to the Needy
    6 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

    2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

    (… and so forth…)

    THAT SAID, I believe it is possible to soften it somewhat. Modern Game Theory has shown, via the Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma, that the proper pattern to live by (the one which “wins” the most often, of all that have been devised) is the Judeo-Christian, “An Eye For An Eye, With Forgiveness.”

    This discourages action against each other, but also allows for the breaking of endless tit-for-tat revenge chains, e.g., “Your father killed my father, because his grandfather killed your grandfather, because… (elided), so I will kill you!!“, which “An Eye For An Eye” by itself encourages. And it does very effectively against ruthless living strategies (e.g., “fuck ’em before they fuck you!”)

    I believe that action against an evil done to you needs to be dealt with on an impersonal basis, rather than a personal one — if you do act, you can’t be doing it because you are angry or hurt. You can only do something because you believe it was an evil that could not be allowed to go unpunished, to NOT be responded to with a “tit for tat” form of response, for the simple reason that the evil in question could not be seen as having been “gotten away with”… for evils should never be “gotten away with.” You pretty much have to look carefully within yourself to know your own internal motivation. If you can’t do that, or if the motivation is “revenge” in nature, you need to turn the other cheek, just to not stain your own soul with a responsive evil that equals the original.

    This is, ideally, where the modern Justice System is supposed to operate from — an impartial and non-personal examination of actions and the providing of consequences for them. Yes, it often fails, but it’s an ideal, not the human reality that we do live with.

  16. BTW:

    Love Your Enemies
    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

    This is also later addressed, indirectly, via Matthew 9:

    Jesus Calls Matthew
    9 As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man called Matthew sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, “Follow me.” And he rose and followed him.

    10 And as Jesus[b] reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

    I argue that your enemy is probably not your enemy because they want to be enemies, but there is, instead, something which sets you at odds, which might be changed or dealt with in such a way that you may not be friends, but can, at least, not be enemies. By this, one may avoid doing those “evils done by others” to oneself and to that enemy.

    And the above observation by Jesus is in line with that — by turning the other cheek, and speaking softly in response to anger, you can sometimes “turneth away wrath” and gain some common ground from which you can both survive and prosper. Because this is both a healthy, civilized, response, and can help find a suitable common ground for both of you to work from, without tearing at each other, as animals are wont to do.

    And that last, is, in my Not So Humble Opinion, what Christ is actually about — we started as little better than animals… but now, after however many generations, God expects us to be more than that, to be rational, thinking human beings, not animals driven by emotions alone and no consideration for the position of others.

    We should put ourselves into our opponent’s position, and see what their goals and needs are, and try and find an accommodation with them which does not put the entire burden onto the loser, and makes it more bearable for all parties in opposition to one another**.

    And, no, I don’t think you need to be a Christian with a belief in God to see the rationality and worth of that to all human beings.

    ====
    ** No, don’t “roll over and play dead”, but you should aim for common ground, not for “I want it all, and I have the power to take it all… so it’s all mine!

  17. “As I said in the open thread, SW can cut this abuse down to a manageable size by eliminating open seating. By not having reserved seats and an almost free for all boarding process, they open themselves to this. From the discussion board you quoted, I’m not the only one who notices the abuse.”

    I don’t think this will happen. I fly SWA regularly. At a minimum right now, a round trip from either LAS or GEG to PHX every month. But before I retired, I was flying weekly round trips somewhere. We had 6 offices in 4 SW states. All SWA cities. Added some more after I left. Again SWA cities. The firm loved that if your plans changed, the airline didn’t gouge you. No change fees, etc. Two years ago, Lost two 1st class tickets with AA for over $1k, because of an accident. Not with SWA. With SWA, I move my reservations around – a lot. Always have. Last month, I was booked on 4 different flights between PHX and LAS in one day. Harder with seat assignments. Then there is the problem that seat assignments with other airlines have been monetized (As well as baggage). Gouge for anything but a center seat towards the back. Gouge for any checked luggage. Etc.

    SWA started with a lot of frequent travelers between cities in TX. And expanded from there. Now, it seems to still have a lot of frequent flyers for short hops, then a lot of budget conscious vacation travelers who fly very infrequently. It’s set up so that frequent travelers with last minute reservations and changes can get an aisle or window seat.

    Another reason that SWA likes it, is that, surprisingly, their scheme loads the plane more quickly. They still turn their flights around more quickly than anyone else. (And are allowed to burn fuel to make up time in the air). That ultimately means paying less for their planes, because they spend more time in the air.

  18. SWA tries to police the handicapped preboarding. When you get your reservations, there is an option where you can request a wheelchair or the like. Prints as a code on the boarding pass. Some gate agents won’t let you preboard if you don’t have the code on your boarding pass, don’t arrive in a wheelchair, and are under, say, 70. My wife does need extra time to board, and for awhile needed a wheelchair, so we find this helpful.

    A note – SWA does a good job at preventing pre-boarders from sitting in exit rows. They have a flight attendant posted at the exit seats, to keep preboarders, kids, and the obviously infirm or otherwise unable to help out of those seats. They don’t allow seating there until they hear “General Boarding” over the PA system. Used to be that the gate attendant would give the first regular passenger a card, and they would give it to the flight attendant who meets you getting on the plane, and she would make the announcement. This seems to work better than what some other airlines do. On UA, I have seen rows of morbidly obese, and rows of the infirm elderly in exit rows, and nothing they could really do – they got themselves assigned those seats, so they are theirs (yes, they can move them, but it’s a pain, that flight attendants with 20 years seniority aren’t going to go through). I prefer exit rows, and get them about 50% of the time on SWA, but will discontinue when I can’t handle the exit door and helping people out.

    What scares me is that the morbidly obese can count as needing extra time as they waddle down the jetway. Up until very recently, they were charged double if they couldn’t fit in a single seat. But apparently there has been a change in policy, possibly under a consent decree, that ended this. So, what happens when the entire flight is sold out (not that uncommon), they board first, take extra seats, and the airplane can’t hold all of the people they sold seats to? So far, it hasn’t been a big problem – they can pick up the slack by putting pilots flying standby in the cockpit (had an JetBlue pilot up there recently), and flight attendants in jump seats.

  19. The overly-standoffish Federal policy has also added to the service animal vs. ’emotional support animal’ nonsense.

  20. LOL it’s known around Las Vegas airport that there are “miracle flights” where seniors (especially) in an out-city request wheelchairs to preboard so they can sit up front, then deplane at LAS under their own power. First, of course.

    The Vegas wheelchair-assistance workers are used to showing up for arrivals with a line of chairs in the Jetway, then taking almost as many empties back into the terminal.

    Shameless, some people are.

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