The intricacies of Judge Engoron’s vindictive ruling on Trump
Judge Engoron is quite creative in discovering ways to tie Trump into knots. It’s not just the verdict and the monetary award. There’s also this (emphasis mine):
But before any other court can review Engoron’s decision, Trump will have to pay hundreds of millions out of a portfolio based mainly on residential properties, commercial buildings, and resort holdings in New York City and around the world. …
“The amount he will have to put up will be in excess of $450 million, just to appeal,” a person familiar with the case told The Post.
In civil matters, it’s customary for judges to require up to 120% of a fine to be held in escrow while the case wends its way through the court system.
“The defense can propose a different amount to be held in escrow,” the source explained. “But the ultimate decision on that is up to the judge.”
Engoron’s ruling slapped a 9% interest charge on top of Trump’s fine, which will accrue daily until it’s paid.
Has there ever been a civil case with an award of such magnitude against an individual, brought by the government in which there were no damages of any sort? Apparently not. Also, of course, this case is an act of political vengeance.
More (emphasis mine):
And Trump will have to collect the money fast: he has just 30 days to come up with the cash, or to find a surety company to guarantee it for him – using some of his properties as collateral.
No bank that does business in New York is permitted to lend to the former president, under the terms of Engoron’s ruling.
“By imposing an astronomical award, Engoron made it difficult to even appeal his decision,” Turley said, calling it “one of the most insidious aspects of the ruling.”
“This award should shock the conscience of any objective jurist,” he said.
Indeed it should – and that’s why Turley, not a Trump supporter, expresses his own shock. He is pretty close to objective on this matter. But objective jurists are very hard to find these days.
This aspect of Engoron’s ruling is like Catch-22: you must do the impossible before you even get to appeal, and one of the things you want to appeal is the fact that the judge has made it nearly impossible to appeal. I wonder whether there is any procedural way around this. Could Trump somehow fast-track the case to SCOTUS, and would they accept it?
. . . Or, How to have the effect of a Bill of Attainder without being a Bill of Attainder. Very slick indeed.
sdferr:
Precisely.
Point of curiosity: what would happen if Trump just told them to go to hell? Could they expropriate all his property, at least in NY?
Mac:
Contempt of court, I suppose.
This verdict actually amounts to the government of NY taking his property. He can choose to cooperate or to not cooperate.
lets recall where this process as punishment began, first someone leaked the tax return, then they attacked one of Trump organization officers, Wesselberg, then they decided a verdict then crafted the narrative behind it, much like the bogus accounting state, which they bootstrapped into felonies,
compare that with what happened to ftx and all their officers, or hsbc or deutsch bank have any of those been charged criminally, certainly judge gleeson has made herculean efforts to avoid the former, how about don corzione of mf global, some monies were clawed back,
I think that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the excessive fines prohibition in the Eighth Amendment applies to the states as well as the federal government. This seems like an obvious case for appeal to the Supreme Court, since the New York judge has made state appeals nearly impossible.
thats not the least of it
https://twitter.com/BehizyTweets/status/1760020560371679511
Judge probably thinks he’s pretty clever.
As do all the other jubilant—embarrassingly puerile—haters in the peanut gallery.
Don’t they know that what goes around comes around?
Right back at em’?
Gonna hate? Gonna get hated.
Gonna persecute? Gonna get persecuted.
Gonna torment? Gonna get tormented.
Gonna be unjust? Well, it’ll rebound on to ye’.
Gonna try and destroy? Gonna get it tried against you.
And then they’re gonna howl that all this hatred focused on THEM just isn’t fair. Just isn’t right. Just isn’t….just.
Or haven’t they, in their sophistication, humanity and wisdom, thought it through…or thought about it at all?…the thrill of destroying DJT—of watching him squirm, moan, writhe and seethe— being such a heady brew….as they befoul their state and destroy their society.
Sophistication, humanity and wisdom all right…
Well, they can do what they want, I guess…cuz it could NEVER happen to them…
File under: Justice, justice, shall you pursue…string up…and LYNCH.
This is from the Code of Federal Regulations government website:
“As usually applied under State laws, the term ‘fraud or dishonesty’ encompasses such matters as larceny, theft, embezzlement, forgery, misappropriation, wrongful abstraction, wrongful conversion, willful misapplication or any other fraudulent or dishonest acts resulting in financial loss.”
If nobody complained to the police that Trump lost their money, where’s the fraud? How can you have fraud with no loss?
There need to be consequences. We all know there won’t be.
Ray:
Trump was prosecuted under a NY state law that doesn’t explicitly require losses as a result of the fraudulent activities, but until Trump it hadn’t been used that way.
I wonder if DJT has paid for intelligent, well connected lawyers who can break through the catch-22 in the appeal? I do not see how it could be done, but I have no knowledge of accounting law, other than that it is Byzantine. That very complexity probably hides opportunity, waiting to be brought to the surface against the corrupt judge… and his paramour.
As I recall, the huge verdict won by Pennzoil against Texaco for its (alleged?) interference with the Getty Oil acquisition resulted in Texaco filing for bankruptcy, at least in part because of the huge bond required to protect its assets during the appeal. Trump or his companies could do the same.
Neo: what I mean is, suppose he just walked away from the whole thing? Sure, contempt of court, at least, but suppose he refused to cooperate with that? Suppose he went off to Florida and never crossed the NY state line again? Could they extradite him? I guess one way or another he would end up in jail. And I guess the flight to Florida is not reasonable because most of his wealth is tied up in NY.
This is really quite a return to certain old ways even further back than the bill of attainder: confiscation of property.
this is what witch james is threatening, while the dead, the raped the other victims pile up on a mountain higher that most high rises,
all they know to do is destroy, like locusts or one of ts Eliots creatures like the jabberwocky,
I wonder who really wrote the opinion.
The Marxists are serious in their Lawfare, Catch 22’s and all.
This is evil, and can only pray therecwill be Hell to pay
What I don’t see is why many conservatives think that, if the Supremes hear this, they will come down on the right side.
I am not sanguine. As I see it, there are 4 votes for NY right off – Roberts and the other 3 liberals. All they need to do is pry one of the 3 weak ones*, and presto – Trump is attainted.
*That is, the Trump appointees.
The 9% interest rate is usurious in nature. It is way above the market rate for investment grade debt. And the Trump properties are certainly investment grade.
I don’t think Trump will have any problem finding a bonding company that will put up the bond with some of his properties as collateral. Mara Lago is worth at least $250 million. Trump Tower and some of his golf properties could add up to well over $200 million. See this:”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/how-much-is-donald-trumps-property-empire-worth-an-asset-by-asset-breakdown/ar-BB1h4i3X
He’s got a lot of assets.
No one who isn’t a Trump hater or Democrat sees this as anything other than a political shakedown.
I commented in 2020 that when the civil war is over there will be an express lane to the gallows for the leftist lawyers and judges. Nothing has happened since then to change my mind.
Letitia said today she’s considering confiscating the entire amount by taking his property if he can’t pay.
Eeyore:
Roberts is unpredictable and certainly might go either way. I think he would actually vote with the conservatives on this one. But I also think that unless there’s a way to fast-track it, SCOTUS might not get to it till after the election.
Let’s hope that the trucker boycott does a real number on NYC. It may bring the city and state government to their senses. Of course, it will be written off as the act of white supremicists by the NY media.
The trucker convoy didn’t work in Washington, DC. The trucker convoy didn’t work on the Southern border. I suspect it won’t work on New York City either. There’s a lot of talk, but when it dies down we all have to earn a paycheck.
Re: Finding a bonding company
How many of those do no business in New York state? And, if they post Trump’s bond for a New York state court, have they now done business in the state?
The leftist woke progressives with their ‘justice’ system ‘agents’ are busily “cutting down all the laws”.
It shall not end well for them.
Consequences such as these are best ‘served cold’.
BJ
One trucker said their bosses can find them loads many other places.
It’s not a convoy, it’s going someplace else
The judge reminds me of Erogan (Turkey):
‘The law and justice are like the subway, you ride them until you get to your destination.’ (or as long as they are useful.)
Maybe a “journalist” will look into Egotron.
Im here every week.
One can ask the court to waive the requirement to pay on hardship grounds.
I don’t think anyone has ever had a penalty so big, but one can argue having to pay 20% of one’s net wealth would definitely create hardship.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/oath/hearings/financial-hardship-online-form.page
@ Richard > “It’s not a convoy, it’s going someplace else”
Exactly.
The Canadians could defang their convoys because they could find out who the truckers were and confiscate their bank accounts, etc.
How are the Democrats going to find out who DIDN’T come to New York, and if they do (by reading all the social media posts the IC is hoovering up), under what law would they persecute them (yes, that is the word I wanted).
Of course, there is probably some very obscure statute on somebody’s books somewhere that could be used, but that would really be throwing gas onto the fire.
I will be interested in seeing how this goes, and hoping it is not a scam of some kind.
https://notthebee.com/article/trump-fans-start-gofundme-page-seeking-to-raise-355-million-to-pay-his-legal-fees-in-new-york
Of course, GFM could shut it down (there are precedents) but they are already skating on thin ice with conservatives as it is, and may not want to risk irrevocably losing the patronage of 73.6 Million people, minimum.
Rule by Dem pseudo-king judge, rather than law.
All those voting Dem support this, which never is “just Trump”.
This is part of Democrat Derangement Syndrome, now against Trump, but also against Jews. It was not so extreme when against Kavanaugh nor Palin, nor Bush.
But all others are personally more sensitive to the kind of lie-based lawfare which bankrupted Mike Flynn and Rudy Giuliano.
The US will never again be as great as it was, with “justice for all.”
It also violates the 8th amendment.
PLEASE HELP! Will someone please tell me as to who, for what purpose, has access to the information available from cell phone towers? I was of the impression that it was only the police who had access to the information available on those towers. Please provide any accurate information as to this process. Thank you!
So the judge or his clerks misread or misrepresented the income statement to come to their procrustean decision
https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1760285507836141988
https://www.theblaze.com/news/glenn-beck-and-tucker-carlson-consider-whether-american-decline-is-by-design-and-a-prelude-to-authoritarian-rule?utm_source=theblaze-dailyPM&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily-Newsletter__PM%202024-02-20&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Daily%20PM&tpcc=email
Alsop
I recall a series of reports of CDL driver shortages.
Offers of $100k. Seventeen-year-olds could get licensed [shudder],
, Every third semi I pass is advertising for drivers.
Trucking companies might be crimes for avoiding The Big Apple.
But independents looking for their next load?
I recall being in a REAL truck stop in the Southwest
Sort of like Buccees except for maybe three acres of diesel pumps, gym. showers. theater, and a room with two dozen screens where drivers can make contacts for their next load.
Presuming similar facilities two time zones east. easy enough to find alternate destinations
Regarding a potential trucker strike of loads into NYC,
I would be pleased to be proven wrong, but it seems unlikely to me. Trucking is way too fragmented and full of independents. So many of the truckers I see at large truck stops are recent immigrants. I think to many a job is a job a load is a load and money is money. It seems an unlikely group to get the type of cohesion needed to make an impact on NYC. Also, for there to be a noticeable impact the companies listing the contracts would be impacted. Are they going to risk losing a nationwide account with Walmart, for example, over a protest in one city?
would some enterprising journalist please look for collusion between the judge and the White House?
Rufus
Companies might not want to take this risk.
But it would only take a few independents picking loads to elsewhere to put a noticeable squeeze on the various consumables and supplies for independent business owners.
Or, for a company, a one-day work stoppage by drivers would be noticeable.
See just-in-time.
Richard Aubrey,
“A few independents…”
We’re talking New York City. The most populous city in the U.S. As I wrote, there are so many independents involved and the laws of supply and demand. Even if there is a temporary boycott among a few truckers it seems prices would rise to attract more carriers.
Again, it would be nice to be proven wrong, but I don’t see how this can work.
The judgment against Trump. Amy Wax being suspended from U. Penn with a 50% reduction in pay. A J6er just recently arrested now also facing charges of receiving child porn.
All unrelated, just a series of coincidences. Or are they?
Well, to paraphrase…there’s a lotta ruin in a city….but the Rotten Apple is trying real hard to self-destruct as quickly as possible!
(The Liberals would appear to be more liberal than even they could possibly have imagined…)
File under: We’re Number 1!(?)
Rufus,
Prices would rise….
@ Barry – with a little tweaking, I think you may have a rap hit.
Maybe you can get Ben Shapiro to deliver it.
**************
Don’t they know that what goes around
comes around? (comes around, back around!)
Right back (right back!) at em’? (right back!)
Gonna hate? Gonna get hated.
Gonna persecute? Gonna get persecuted.
Gonna torment? Gonna get tormented.
Gonna be unjust?
Well, it’ll rebound on to you. (yeah, you, on you!)
Gonna try and destroy?
Gonna get it tried against you!
And then they’re gonna howl
that all this hatred
focused on THEM
just isn’t fair. (not fair!)
Just isn’t right. (not right!)
Just isn’t….just. (no, no, no no!)
Have they thought it through…or thought about it at all?…
such a heady brew….
as they befoul their state and destroy their society.
Sophistication, humanity and wisdom all right…(all wrong!)
Well, they can do what they want, I guess…
cuz it could NEVER happen to them…(oh, no, no, no, no, no!)
Justice (justice!) shall you pursue (never happen to you!)
Justice (justice!) shall you pursue (never happen to you!)
(oh, no, no, no, no, no!)
@ Edward Willard — Glowie alert.