Caring about how Jews vote?
In almost every article or post on the right that deals with the war in Gaza, the terrorist attacks on Israel, anti-Semitism on US campuses, and the like, I see many comments to the effect of: “And yet Jews vote Democrat, and nothing will make them change.” Just to take one of countless examples, see the first few comments here.
Progressive Jews are ethnic Jews. Most know little to nothing about Judaism and are often actively hostile to both religion and Israel. They are typical of progressives everywhere, who tend to be urban and well-educated. Jews fit that profile. The vast majority of Jews in the US live in New York or Los Angeles, and vote more or less like other groups in those places – except for black people, who vote in far greater percentages for the left.
Also, although the Jews of Israel have their share of leftists, as a whole in recent years they’ve voted for the right, although the parliamentary system sometimes has allowed coalitions that put leftists in power.
But back to the US and its Jewish voters. The following was written after the 2022 midterms:
The Republican party increased its share of the national Jewish vote to a new high not seen in a generation, according to results of a midterm election exit poll conducted Tuesday by Fox News.
According to the data, 33% of Jewish voters polled voted Republican in the 2022 midterm election, up from 30% in 2020 and 24% in 2016. …
Markstein said Tuesday’s election saw “a record-smashing level of support in Florida, at 45% of the Jewish vote.”
In New York’s hotly contested gubernatorial race, Republican candidate Rep. Lee Zeldin won between 85-95% in Hasidic Brooklyn neighborhoods in Borough Park and Williamsburg where voter turnout averaged 50%, according to New York city polls, despite being ultimately defeated by Democratic incumbent challenger Gov. Kathy Hochul.
“Jews” are not unitary. They vote very differently from each other, depending on many things, but especially on how religious they are, with religious Jews voting on the right. Also important is where they live. They vote Democrat in higher percentages in blue states, much like just about everyone else in blue states and especially blue urban areas.
Jews are also a tiny tiny percentage of the voting public, and usually their vote doesn’t matter at all because they are concentrated in blue states where even without them, Democrats would be winning. Jewish donors are a different story – they are more influential, and lately quite a few of them have been pulling back from supporting Democrats.
NOTE: For a typical example of what I’m talking about, see many of the comments here.
There’s something in the neighborhood of 6 million ethnic Jews in the USA. (For reference, there’s apparently about 3.5 million Muslims in the USA).
At any rate, I agree that although they don’t represent a very significant percentage of the vote, they probably have an outsized represtation in terms of donations relative to other groups. And I don’t doubt that those donation dollars are likley trending a bit away from the Left and to the Right lately. Although I imagine the Democrats may still end up with the majority of those donation dollars in 2024 depsite such a trend.
Lately the MSM seems to be pushing the Trump-will-be-Hitler-if-he-wins! narrative. Such unhinged, hysterical proclaimations seem beyond absurd to me, but I’m not the audience for them. I can’t tell if some of the more squishy blue voters may believe suc nonsense or not.
In a recent (this past week?) 15m clip on YT, Jordan Peterson interviews Niall Ferguson on “The German Problem.”
After some review about this and proffered answers to why Hitler arose to power THERE, of all places — where not only Germany was advanced, but leading Europe in Jewish-Gentle marriages and assimilation, Ferguson leads us us to consider why the young today cannot realize how charismatic and hypnotically spell binding he was.
In other words, he argues that it required a Hitler-type — and that this type of leader was a crucial ingredient to the witches brew that begat the Holocaust — industrial scale extermination of the Jews.
The reason why the young today fail to comprehend this, he provocatively suggests, is because the online and social media world has expunged complete performances of Hitler from the available record, replacing this with more anodyne and fragmented, short clips, leaving a rising generation unaware of this man’s totalizing creative charisma.
And therefore they are easily misled.
Putting my social science hat on to further research and rest this claim, I wondering how to go about it?
Only then can I see a corrective course of action occuring.
In other words, I find Ferguson’s conjecture to be interesting and plausible. But not yet compelling enough to gain the necessary traction for remedying.
A friend of mine is a Sephardic Jew from Morocco. She married a Navy guy who was stationed in Morocco. She has voted straight Democrat for decades, but in 2020 voted for Trump. The change came about for at least two reasons. 1. Trump’s policies in support of Israel. As she has family in Israel, that makes a difference. BTW, one of her grandsons in Israel, whom I have met when he visited the States, is now with the IDF in Gaza. 2. The lame “mostly peaceful” response of Democrat honchos to numerous riots in recent years. Her children also vote Republican; their voting Republican may have also nudged their mother in that direction.
Among other things, it’s taboo to point out that Hitler was good at various items. It means he was “good”. “You’re saying Hitler was GOOD!?”, spoken with exaggerated can’t-believe-you-said-this expression.
Coming from where he was to where he got to, considering all the others with more education, connections, juice, background, public knowledge, yeah, he was damn’ good.
To stay on top of the rat fight of Nazi politics….
If I had to guess about the Jewish vote, I’d say it’s because they are presumed to be able to see it’s against their interests. I don’t know if that’s true, because I don’t know what Jews think of as their interests. But that seems to lie behind the comments.
I mentioned Megyn Kelly’s interview with an LA rabbi a couple of days ago. It’s worth about 10 min of your time listening to what he says. There may be some real “facing reality” among American Jews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjCOo_UuckY&t=558s
This two-month-old comment from a Powerlineblog commenter called “jim” is relevant here, I think . . .
“Jewish people I’ve known over the years have thought people like [Minister Louis] Farrakhan and [Rep.] Ilhan Omar were a joke, while being scared to death of [Rev.] Jerry Falwell. Maybe the last couple weeks have clarified political reality for some of them, but I doubt it for most of them. The ones at the universities will certainly be the last ones to figure things out.”
“Progressive Jews are ethnic Jews. Most know little to nothing about Judaism and are often actively hostile to both religion and Israel.”
At base, anti-Semitism has little to do with religion. Hate must have its scapegoat and all the ‘reasons’ advanced that characterize Jews as despicable are simply rationalizations advanced to justify the hate.
Progressive Jew’s secularism will not save them from either the leftist or Islamic ‘crocodile’.
Along with Nonapod, I suspect the change among Jewish donors will make more difference than Jewish votes. Jews have a long history of philanthropy, which has been, in this country, aimed left because leftist rhetoric sounds so compassionate.
M J R
Interesting point. I recall seeing some of that years ago. What’s your take on why they got it so wrong? What did Falwell do which indicated some ominous possibilities?
White and vaguely southern? That do it?
” Also, although the Jews of Israel have their share of leftists, as a whole in recent years they’ve voted for the right,…”
Repeatedly dodging rockets launched by the “oppressed” group, and aimed at your head, forces one to accept reality.
It’s real easy for anybody to believe and support anything when one is far removed from the consequences of those policies that are in accordance with one’s beliefs.
An article about George Soros at a meeting of the Jewish funders network
When asked about anti-Semitism in Europe, Soros, who is Jewish, said European anti-Semitism is the result of the policies of Israel and the United States.
“There is a resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe. The policies of the Bush administration and the Sharon administration contribute to that,” Soros said. “It’s not specifically anti-Semitism, but it does manifest itself in anti- Semitism as well. I’m critical of those policies.”
“If we change that direction, then anti-Semitism also will diminish,” he said. “I can’t see how one could confront it directly.”
After the conference, some Jewish leaders who heard about the speech reacted angrily to Soros’ remarks.
“Let’s understand things clearly: Anti-Semitism is not caused by Jews; it’s caused by anti-Semites,” said Elan Steinberg, senior adviser at the World Jewish Congress. “One can certainly be critical of Bush policy or Sharon policy, but any deviation from the understanding of the real cause of anti-Semitism is not merely a disservice, but a historic lie.”
Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, called Soros’ comments “absolutely obscene.”
“He buys into the stereotype,” Foxman said. “It’s a simplistic, counterproductive, biased and bigoted perception of what’s out there. It’s blaming the victim for all of Israel’s and the Jewish people’s ills.”
https://www.jta.org/archive/in-rare-jewish-appearance-george-soros-says-jews-and-israel-cause-anti-semitism
M J R…”This two-month-old comment from a Powerlineblog commenter called “jim” is relevant here, I think . . .“Jewish people I’ve known over the years have thought people like [Minister Louis] Farrakhan and [Rep.] Ilhan Omar were a joke, while being scared to death of [Rev.] Jerry Falwell.””
See my post The Phobia(s) That May Destroy America:
https://ricochet.com/548927/the-phobias-that-may-destroy-america-2/
I do visit a number of conservative websites.
Some commenters say they will no longer support Israel because lots of Jewish people vote for democrats.
I have yet to see any commenter say they will no longer support their church because lots of Christian people vote for democrats.
One must do what is ethically correct despite what others do.
I am a Christian Zionist. I fully support the right of The Jewish people for a State in their historical homeland.
M J R; David Foster:
I have never met a single Jewish person who thinks Farrakhan is a joke and/or Falwell is worse, and I doubt “jim” has met one either.
Soros, who is Jewish, said European anti-Semitism is the result of the policies of Israel and the United States.
Indeed he was born of a Jewish family, but they were not actively religious and neither is he. He’s a hater and his religion is anti-American.
Neo…perhaps that is true of these specific examples (Farrakhan and Falwell), but plenty of Jews do seem to worry a lot more about right-wing anti-Semitism than left-wing anti-Semitism. Obama’s minister Jeremiah Wright didn’t seem to have much effect on the vote.
You have apparently missed traditionalist Roman Catholics discussing Pope Frankie and the infestation of sodomite bishops in their church’s hierarchy functioning as a wing of the Democrat party.
It’s “funny”. I wrote a comment the other day and despite having virtually no internal censor, I decided for once not to post it.
It concerned ‘blaming the victims” ; and always eager to do so, I asked if in some cases it might not be justified, using as an extreme example the various flavors of Red Revolutionaries who found themselves in the basement of Lubyanka awaiting a bullet to the neck, and the French Jacobin marshals of terror who eventually went screeching to the guillotine and on to Hell themselves.
In the case of “the Jews” the better analogy would be more along the lines of the citizens of Portland or Minneapolis whose politically voiced policies are now scorching their own asses.
Except it occurred to me it would not be a better analogy.
Because, back when I used to visit here regularly, we had at least two failed attempts to decide just who or what one had to be in order to be a “Jew”.
So, while non-Jews may have the impression, justified or not that Jews absolutely refuse to cast other Jews into the outer darkness no matter what, we seemingly cannot figure out exactly who qualifies for this mysterious unconditional solidarity, and why.
Its just that it’s not likely that two Jews are going to meet with their seconds and a set of dueling pistols by the riverside at dawn.
So far as we know, that is.
Excluding several who post here of course. They probably would.
George Soros is a scumbag, akin to The Joker in The Dark Knight.
DNW:
I’m not at all sure what you’re trying to say. “Unconditional solidarity”? Among Jews? “Refusal to cast other Jews into the outer darkness”? Jews are not a unitary bunch and plenty of them blame plenty of other Jews for all sorts of things. Or do you just mean: once a Jew, always a Jew? That part is a bit complicated.
As for the definition of who is a Jew, you are correct that there is disagreement about that. Jews are not a unitary group on that score, either. But the general guide is this: it depends what element of being Jewish you’re talking about. Jews are a religious group, an ethnicity (or several ethnicities, actually), and a people. Those three things are different from each other.
As a religious group, there are several groups of Jews within that group ranging from Reform to ultra-Orthodox, all quite different in belief system and practice. Many people who are ethnically Jewish – that is, their DNA resembles that of Ashkenazi Jews or Sephardic Jews, for example, and their parents or grandparents identified as Jews – are not at all religious. People in that non-religious (secular) group are more likely to be liberals or on the left. They often know little to nothing about Judaism as a religion. Some of them are actively anti-Semitic Jew-haters themselves.
George Soros would fall into that latter group; he has said he was raised knowing nothing about Judaism and in a house he characterized as anti-Semitic. And yet – as you probably know – Soros was considered a Jew by the Nazis, and he is considered a Jew by most people who hate him today. And in a way, he IS Jewish. He is ethnically Jewish with four Jewish grandparents, and because Jews are also a people he would be considered by some (not all) to be part of the Jewish people. That last concept is the most difficult of all to understand, because it is not just a religion and it is not just an ethnic group. Converts to Judaism – who can be of any race or religion originally – become part of the Jewish people.
In addition, the rate of Jewish intermarriage in the US is very high.The vast majority of the children of such marriages will not identify as Jewish religiously, are unlikely to marry Jews, and in another generation or two will not be considered Jewish by anyone.
David Foster:
Jewish Democrats were enamored with Obama and didn’t believe Reverend Wright’s opinions had much effect on him, and in that respect they were no different from other Democrats.
I also am pretty sure that Jews tend to be more worried about right-wing anti-Semitism because it has a long and visible history, whereas left-wing anti-Semitism is a more recent phenomenon. I’ve spoken to Jewish Democrats who aren’t even aware of leftist anti-Semitism. Leftist anti-Israel sentiment was until recently thought by most Jewish Democrats to be distinct from anti-Semitism.
The stereotypical American Jew is a democrat for a reason, because the vast majority of them are. Sure there are exceptions, but it’s a good bet. And not just democrat, but leftist. Full on DIE, socialism, and so forth. Go to a radical leftist protest, any campus left wing club, any left wing group like the ACLU, and Jews are far over represented versus their population, shouting hatred at cis gender whatever, promoting cancel culture and so forth.
So when the giant leftist hate machine turns on the US Jews, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. I am rooting for the Israelis to level Gaza, but that’s a separate issue than the left-on-left war going on in the US. I am just sitting on the sidelines watching to see if US Jews finally get it, but they won’t. Next week they will back be pushing open borders, quotas, moral relativism, and all the policies they promoted which is now resulting in the golem they created turning on them.
whatever:
For starters, only about 2/3 of Jews vote Democrat. That’s about the same percentage as Hispanics, and much less than black people. Jews in New York City – where a large percentage of US Jews live – have similar percentages of Republicans as other religions such as Catholic and Protestants. And yet you don’t seem at all concerned about members of these other religions voting for Democrats. In 1980, about 45% of Jewish voters voted for Reagan – they were displeased with Carter. That sort of thing could happen again, in particular for members of Congress who haven’t supported Israel.
And as of this morning, another great 10 minute interview by Megyn Kelly, this time with Bari Weiss. Yes, American Jews may be changing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygIJREG0zfQ
Like the previous one I posted with the rabbi, worth 10 minutes of your time.
I’m trying to say that I found out precisely the same thing once I attempted to say (enunciate) it.
I encountered a situation vaguely like one finds in mooting a thesis that has been “up in the air” for formal consideration, and then quickly discovers is not coherent enough to survive a modest amount of analysis … and yet, something, impalpable, seems to shimmer there in that space nonetheless.
So there is the surface question, and then the underlying supporting predicate – actually two predicates that might be construed as linked..
And I, being by my own nature an anti-reification type personally, found the predicate that supports the question in the first place, dissolving away after first glance. Even, if something seems to remain there all the same.
The question in the air:
“Is the phenomenon we are seeing ( on campus and elsewhere) a redounding effect of generations of meddling left-wing tikkun activism washing back over the activists’ own “family”?”
The insupportable predicates or assumptions are that:
A. Collective identity and collective moral responsibility exist
B. The objective existence of such a collective identity which is somehow either imperishable or is taken to be as such by members of said identity group, and which operates internally as an unbreakable and inviolable bond of moral solidarity and mutualism at least at some level.
A hypothetical example would be “Jews” collectively concerning themselves with the fate of George Soros should he be discovered to be in mortal jeopardy, despite being who and what he otherwise is.
I see that there is however another ambiguity in what I wrote. I had written:
“
”
Emphasis and editorial brackets added.
The “we” in the above passage does not refer to “we” non-Jews looking at the current landscape, but rather to Neo and her readers ( or at least this one) being unable to resolve the identity question precisely during past discussions.
And then there is something in your reply that I had never before heard of and did not even know was ‘ a thing’.
”
”
I did not know that that temporal eternity business was even a theme or a concept. And at this point I don’t quite grasp whether it is one propounded by Jewish people themselves or by their antagonists … or by both or …
Just didn’t know about it as a distinct idea. And I studied Jewish cultural history back in college. Under a well known Conservatine rabbi functioning as an adjunct professor. So of course I know all that there us to know about Jewishness. Or at least about Philo Judaeus. Or maybe, not even that …
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_(1913)/Philo_Jud%C3%A6us
Extremely disturbing survey results: 67% of people 18-24 believe that Jews as a class are oppressors and should be treated as such. For comparison, that belief is ‘only held by 36% of those 35-44.
Twitter post & discussion:
https://twitter.com/aziz0nomics/status/1736078553744114037
Poll results:
https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP_Dec23_KeyResults.pdf
Wesley Yang @wesyang responded to the above survey results:
“Young people struggle to read and do math at grade level — but they have learned well what the educational system considered important for them to absorb”
David Foster quote:
They certainly got some of this Woke stuff at school, but social media is probably a more powerful influence on their opinions. Social media is a very powerful influence in teaching what opinions are socially acceptable.
I’ve spoken to Jewish Democrats who aren’t even aware of leftist anti-Semitism. Leftist anti-Israel sentiment was until recently thought by most Jewish Democrats to be distinct from anti-Semitism.
I think Jews excusing or downplaying anti Zionism (and seeing it as distinct from antisemitism) might result from Jewish guilt – ‘Israel is successful and wealthy so maybe they (we) are, if not oppressors, at least responsible for helping the downtrodden Palestinians. And they (we) probably haven’t done enough.’
As for being more afraid of Falwell than Farrakhan, I can almost see why. I don’t read sites that feature Islamists but I do read conservative sites, including the comments. The comment sections of zerohedge, simplicius, and the zman, to name 3 off the top of my head, are disgustingly antisemitic (actually, simplicius is the head antisemite on his substack). These people certainly believe that Jews are a monolithic, evil group, one that controls the world from behind the scenes. This kind of malicious ignorance scares and depresses me.