Hamas took the kids on a field trip
The killing fields, that is.
This is so terrible as to be nearly unbelievable. And yet, from what we already know about how children in Gaza are educated, it is indeed believable.
Not all children would be part of this – going along to witness the torture and murder of October 7, and to participate in looting – even if programmed to hate Jews, but some would. That man who was recorded calling his parents on October 7 and bragging about having killed ten Jews with his own two hands wasn’t tremendously old either, probably in his late teens. Gazan children are being abused in a profound way, and I don’t know if it ever would be possible for them to become normal again. I think it depends on the child, the programming, and on the child’s age.
I would guess that the brainwashing only proceeds into outright violence in the percentage of the population which is naturally psychopathic. There are estimates of what that percentage is, but ’tis enough, ’twill serve, if the culture in which those psychopaths live teaches and nurtures hatred and violence.
Not every terrorist had a retinue of children with him. Or women – there were women, too.
Eran Smilansky, a 28-year-old potato farmer, watched Gazan children go from house to house in his kibbutz on Oct. 7. Hamas terrorists followed. The boys laughed as the gunmen shot or dragged away Israeli families.
“They were like young, young kids,” said Smilansky, who defended his home from terrorists for more than six hours that day. “They were going in front of the terrorists, laughing with their friends and looking very calm. I remember thinking, What the fuck?”
Smilansky was one of a dozen survivors of the Nir Oz massacre who told the Washington Free Beacon they witnessed boys or women from the Gaza Strip looting the kibbutz, helping the armed terrorists, and apparently enjoying themselves. The youngest children were around 10 years old, according to several of the survivors, one of whom provided photographs of some of the women and children he saw.
There is strong evidence that this happened, based on photographs as well as multiple eyewitnesses:
Like most of the Nir Oz survivors, Eyal Barad and his family hid in the safe room of their house from about 6:30 a.m. until the Israeli military evacuated them 12 or so hours later. But Barad, an engineer, had a rare view of the outside world thanks to a speed camera he had recently set up to bust his neighbors for driving on the sidewalk.
On the camera’s livestream, Barad watched three types of Gazans pass by his house: uniformed Hamas commandos carrying automatic weapons, RPGs, and grenades; casually dressed gunmen; and ordinary-looking men, women, and children. Barad said the ordinary Gazans vastly outnumbered the armed terrorists. He estimated that he saw at least a dozen children, who were between the ages of 10 and 15, and 30 women from Gaza.
The armed terrorists were in charge, Barad recalled. They gave orders to the ordinary Gazans, like sending the children to loot specific homes. At one point, Barad saw a woman run up to an armed terrorist and point him toward a house.
“I’m guessing she saw people she wanted him to go kill or kidnap or I don’t know what,” Barad said. “But I can say with 100 percent certainty that [the women and kids] were not just innocent bystanders or looters. They were part of the massacre. They were part of the horrors that we endured that day.”
The article contains other chilling stories. The very worst involves a single witness – but no photos – who said that he saw terrorists hand a gun to children as young as six and have them fire it themselves, killing Israelis. I think this event is possible – really, anything is possible – but that’s one isolated instance and perhaps it’s not true.
I hope it’s not true.
But of course it could be true. And of course, we also have all these people in the West thinking the terrorists are the victims. It’s a world gone mad.
I have a book called “The Sociopath Next Door,” which I read following a family nightmare caused by a person who was, I think, a sociopath. The author was good on psychology, but then she veered into politics, claiming foolishly that America under George Bush was a sociopathic society. Ridiculous. But Gaza/Hamas strikes me as an actually sociopathic society. The people have been indoctrinated with evil for years and the whole environment is evil. This produces ordinary citizens who are willing to commit atrocities and to involve their children.
And yet they try to minimize this
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-november-17-2023/
A third kidnap victim found dead in Gaza.
https://therightscoop.com/another-hostage-found-dead-in-gaza/
The constant refrain is proportionality, no collective punishment, it’s just Hamas, who doesn’t represent all Palestinians.
And from Hamas and its sycophants: there are no innocent Israelis. They’re all colonizers/oppressors, etc.
Well, tell me who the innocent Palestinians are. Their polls show about 60% are still fine with Hamas running things, and we’ve seen reports of how children are taught to hate and strive to kill the Jews (with textbooks provided by UNWRA), and now this, sending children along to the pogrom and being allowed to take part.
I remember a video soon after Israel began bombing. She’d apparently lost a brother or a husband, and she’d found a camera to shout at. Her question? “What was my crime?” I can answer. Her crime was every time she told her children Jews were subhuman animals poisoning the world. Her crime was cheering when Shani Louk’s desecrated body was paraded through town for people to spit on. Her crime was embracing and passing on the oldest hate in the world.
I don’t think there are any innocent Palestinians. I don’t think Israel should turn Gaza into glass, but whatever collateral damage occurs, they won’t be killing any innocents, just future threats. Enough. There has to be an end.
Let’s read this:
Academic Study Weakens Israeli Claim That Palestinian School Texts Teach Hate
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/world/middleeast/study-belies-israeli-claim-of-hate-in-palestinian-texts.html
If you criticized Hamas which is not agree not right
Let see what’s the kids there experiencing for the 8th of October a long field trip “torturer trips” as Netanyahu asks all families, kids and Babies to leave their land/ homes to move south!
What about the massive bombing of kids and babies did you think about them for a minute and what they went through?
So you are so human caring woman and caring about kids’ well-being?
I imagine you sitting in your confront zone and sadly “ the Hate” full of you Brian and your chase which is obvious from your writing although you claim that your Grant family left and fled from very bad treatment of Jews in Eastern Europe!
Does it come to your mind that you follow zionists doing the same act more heroic to what yourGrant father and your family went through although we are lining in 2023, not like the dark ages.
GG, aka NN, aka jj, that Hamashite troll is back, and eloquent as ever.
From the river to the sea
Gazamites are dead to me.
FAFO
GGNNjj is citing the NY Times. Own goal. What a maroon.
GGNNjj probably thinks OBL’s “Letter To America” is a good thing too.
GG, nobody with a functioning mind reads and believes anything in the New York Times.
‘…massive bombing of kids and babies…’
GG, we did that when we fought your buddies the Nazis. Lots of dead German kids and babies. Read up on what we did to Hamburg and Dresden.
Did we feel sad? Most likely, since we are decent humans, unlike you monsters. But we did what we had to do to win the war and prevent your teachers, the Nazis, from enslaving us.
If Israel does turn Gaza into a glass parking lot I will not shed a tear.
‘…massive bombing of kids and babies…’
we did that when we fought your buddies the Nazis
The Japanese
The Germans
The Serbs…
Non-selective, too.
The problem with the reporting, as from Vietnam et al, is to factually assess quantity and attribution. The NYT is known to spread misinformation, disinformation, and handmade tales. The Hebraic traditional advise is to discern truth from multiple, independent sources (i.e. signal diversity).
well i wondered what a ghoul looks like, you find them in the feed of elizabeth spiers, a bottom dweller from gawker, who ended up at the Times and Slate, and btw NYU narrative school, don’t dare call it journalism, she denounced Elon, yet makes excuses for Hamas, you think you’ve seen ignorant and vicious, well you haven’t seen nothing yet, the Atlantic is full of this knavery as well, as Jeffrey Goldberg, the prince of reservist refusal hasn’t learned her lesson in nearly 40 years, during the 4th intifada,
n.n:
Pining for the good old days of Milosovich (sic, and I don’t give a f), Russian PanSlavism, and what gave ethnic cleansing such a Balkan ring?
I can’t seem to remember any firestorms in Serbia similar to Dresden, Cologne, Hamburg, Tokyo, or even Coventry. Cry me a river n.n
There are undoubtedly many Gazans who are just trying to get on with their miserable lives. However, in a society that is organized around the single principle of destroying Israel, there are many who support that cause because it brings them benefits. Remember that Saddam Hussein paid $25,000 to the family of any suicide bomber? Those who kill Jews, especially martyrs, are highly esteemed and their families are rewarded.
The issue of collateral damage in war only became a thing after WWII. Because WWII was so terrible. And because many people wanted to stop or impede warfare, the idea of “limited war” was cooked up. We began to see it in Vietnam, where LBJ selected targets and specified attack directions to specifically limit collateral damage. We were told not to kill or injure any civilians if we could prevent it. We were told it was a battle for “hearts and minds.” I guess the theory was that our enemies would love us if we only killed their soldiers. 🙁
Collateral damage was not an issue for al Qaeda and Bin Laden. He explained that point in his Letter to America. We pay taxes to fund our military, so we’re all fair game.
Of course, collateral damage was a big issue during Afghanistan and Iraq. Our Rules of Engagement (ROEs) made it difficult to actually kill the jihadis as long as they weren’t actually pointing a gun at you in plain sight. We had all the military advantage but opted to tie our hands behind our backs. Hearts and minds. A kinder, gentler way of war.
And guess what? Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran all count on the international community to rein in the IDF. Make them wage a kind and gentle war, even though the attack of October 7th was a savage massacre.
The IDF has to do what needs to be done to allow Israel to feel secure from attack from Gaza and Lebanon. The collateral damage will be awful but it’s what Hamas wants. They’re trying to win the pity of the international community. It seems to be working.
IMO, we need to go back to war as it was practiced during WWII. When war is that awful again, maybe fewer terrorist groups or nations will be so willing to get into wars.
The UN was set up to prevent wars and allow nations to settle their differences peaceably. A worthy concept that began to go awry right from the beginning because China and the USSR were intent on dominating other countries and expanding their influence. They had no intention of being part of a league of nations dedicated to improving conditions all over the world.
Here we are, seventy-seven years later, and not much has changed except that the weapons have become much more expensive and much more accurate.
“I would guess that the brainwashing only proceeds into outright violence in the percentage of the population which is naturally psychopathic.”
Then there’s Robert Browning’s “Ordinary Men”.
If the violence becomes expected and normalized, a surprisingly high percentage will participate.
That New York Times article “GG” linked sure changed the spirit of Walter Duranty.
From tonight’s Over Night Thread at Ace, a view of The Real Housewives of Hamas.
There is nothing funny about the current crisis, and yet humor sometimes makes a point that serious prose cannot.
https://twitter.com/OntWtf/status/1725196282539675952
(h/t Helena Handbasket at Hoyt’s blog)
@GG
By all means, let us. However, we need to start with a key issue. Firstly: the Replication Crisis. Because “Academic Studies” aren’t all they are cracked up to be to begin with, and they’re suffering even more egregious quality problems since then, Chief among them motivated reasoning, dishonest cooking of the results to get a predetermined outcome, and the inability to replicate the results from one study to the next. Particularly bad in Academia.
Secondly: To say that the New York Times and much of what passes for Academia have disgraced themselves with a profound anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish bias, with the Hospital Bombing story being just the most iconic… we’re it not for the news of a good number of reporters being embedded with the death squads on 10/7. To try and come up with a parallel boggles the mind. News reporters goin in with Hitler on his invasion of Poland, the Japanese in China, or Fascist Italy in Ethiopia? Even this falls fallow because at least there was precedent for media embeds with a conventional military, even those serving an evil regime. This was a terrorist attack.
So suffice it to say I am monumentally skeptical.
Ah, some classic both sidesism taken to ludicrous extremes.
On the subject of reading, I propose this as a rebuttal and counter argument to this. And while it obviously has its bias, that bias is at least more open and honest.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/giving-incitement-the-stamp-of-approval/
It does not paint a good picture. If given enough time and prodding I might read through the study itself to pick it apart and evaluate it, but at the time some other commitments impede it.
I have a couple faint ideas what you are trying to say here, but this is ultimately gibberish. Try remedial English so you can avoid issues like this.
You are acting as if this isn’t a basic bit of common sense for noncombatants in a war. You are acting as if the Arab League – in a move its members doubtless regret – did not use Radio Damascus and other mouthpieces to suggest Arabs leave the territory of the Mandate during fighting in 1948, with the promise they could come back after the Israelis were exterminated (and that indeed this DID happen in places like Samaria and East Jerusalem, which saw the often truly ancient Jewish settlements including the Old City of Jerusalem wiped clean of Jews by the Transjordanian Military and paramilitaries loyal to the genocidal Nazi Allies the Al-Husseini clan).
You are acting as if sane governments do not do this to Their Own People. As the British did during the evacuations of their children during the Blitz, the French did during the ravages of the German invasions from 1870 to 1944, the Chinese did during the multiple exoduses that ultimately took their government to Chonqqing, and indeed the Arab League did.
Leaving one’s land and home is never nice or good, but it is usually preferable to the risk of death in the crossfire or from abuse by one side or another in an active war zone, or being used as human shields by such. You are quite literally trying to problematize THE CORRECT THING TO DO, doubtless in order to try and whitewash and justify the genocidal Islamofascists (and I don’t use that term lightly but Hamas are quite literally both Islamist and Fascist).
Go fuck yourself.
I have thought about it. And my response is: What About It?
Hamas is the side that hides its soldiers among babies. Hamas is the side that spreads blood libel to its children. Hanas based its military headquarters under a hospital, a CLASSIC act of perfidy and a war crime that should see all responsible be executed.
The blood of throes bombed lies on Hamas’s hands. Period. Full stop. No ifs, ands, or buts.
The best way to care about kids’ well beings is
A: To destroy the genocidal, totalitarian terrorist state of Hamas, which intends to use them as human shields and cannon fodder in an unjust, illegal war of extermination.
B: To get them out of the conflict zone while A happens, so they can be better cared for and are at less risk of trauma, injury, or death.
The thing you and both useful idiots and propagandists like you ignore is that while both are noble goals and methods, A must take priority. Because if the totalitarian death cult is not destroyed or at least dispossessed, it shall return and cause yet more death. As such, when the needs of A and the needs of B conflict, A must take priority.
And lest I be accused of being a racist by scum such as you, I hold similar views regarding the hostages Hamas took, including many children whom you give no mention of. Gilad Shalit’s kidnapping and captivity was a tragedy, but an even greater tragedy was the exchange of him for hundreds of criminal, terroristic savages who went on to cause so much more death and suffering.
Because I know what must be done to entities like Hamas and the people that comprise it, even if it is harder to carry through when you have flesh and blood in the game.
Firstly: that’s Brain asswipe, not Brian. Also “Grand” not “Grant”
Secondly: it seems clear you are writing full of hate and propaganda to try and excuse the literally inexcusable.
I cannot speak to anyone else, but no no it does not. Because whatever dirty tricks my Grandfather (a US Army Ranger) got up to fighting the Japanese in WWII, he did so in a war forced upon him and his nation. And he rarely said an unkind word about the Japanese overall (in contrast to the time) after coming home and making a model family.
From what I heard, he was apparently quite racist towards Asians on the whole during his prime but I never received any indication of this because he made sure to avoid passing this on to his descendants, especially the grandchildren like myself. Nor did he encourage me to join the military or the like.
That underlines the difference between the likes of my Grandparents and the likes of Hamas or even Fatah, who care more about the dead and killing Israelis and foreigners visiting there than they do about their own people.
And then they wonder why Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan, and Egypt all despise them.
It always was and will always remain the case that wars end when one side kills enough fighting-age men on the other side to preclude effective reinforcement of the army in the field. In the case of Israel/Hamas, the Israelis must kill at least 30% of the male population in the 15-30 year old age group to prevail. To do that, there will be a significant number of collateral deaths because the Hamas combatants conceal themselves in civilian populations, especially in those places that are traditionally viewed as outside the scope of military action, like hospitals, schools and religious buildings. Applying traditional rules of combat to the war on Hamas was ruled out by Hamas, not to mention the Palestinians who support its activites, which amounts to about 90% of the population. Thus, complaining about non-combatatans being killed is like the proverbial patricide pleading for leniency because he is an orphan. Israel is engaged in an existential battle and is justified in applying whatever force is necessary to preserve itself and its population. This is not a case of 19th century Napoleonic warfare, including the early part of our own War Between the States, where each side’s army went out to slaughter the other side’s army and generally did not directly attack its non-combatant population, but is actually “total war,” as later developed here in 1864-1865, where General Sherman made Georgia howl and particularly occurred in WW II, where civilian casualties exceeded military ones. I am not an Israeli, but support their right to do what is necessary. What I actually fear is a premature capitulation, leading to escalated hostilities by the Arab/Islamic world at a later date, resulting in Israel’s resort to “The Sampson Option.”
All: GG is an obvious drive-by troll, and an illiterate one at that. Don’t waste your time and bandwidth on answers. He will not read them. Or,like many trolls is just getting off on your outrage and responses. Rule #1 from waay back in the early 2000s internet: don’t feed the troll.
How do you negotiate with an entity which is designed around your utter extinction?
sounds like one? of the trolls we had at maguires blog, semanticleo, who threw gobbets of texts from marxists, islamists nutjobs, we later found out he was a lecturer on anarchism on leave, who knew little about anarchism
its rather staggering what the ‘best and the brightest’ who have a near perfect record of failure, think they know, whereas us open source amateurs, have been
able to grok the basics of this environment,
yikes https://www.memri.org/tv/gaza-kindergarten-ceremony-stage-military-attack-hostagetaking
Claremont Pitzer was his “institution” wasn’t it, miguel?
yes thats the one, he was staggering misinformed, he had been on sabbatical, all through out asia, but all he was good for was trolling,
Umm, Om, no. The non-selective bombing, carving a nation and occupying it, rewarding terrorism. fomenting diversity. Just another Spring, right?
“Gazan children are being abused in a profound way, and I don’t know if it ever would be possible for them to become normal again.”
Lenin said something like “give me the child for seven years and the man I create will be a Bolshevik forever.” By around age 11, a child will have absorbed his/her sense of right and wrong from the surrounding society. The Gaza children have been marinated in feral savagery for several generations.
This is why no Arab country wants them. They are a feral, barbarian culture and will cause trouble wherever they go. Which is precisely why we should resist any effort to take some as refugees here in the US.
This “give me the children” thing is also why the Left insists on limiting or eliminating parental involvement in raising our kids. They want to mold them into proper Lefties.
n.n?
Yep, he’s pining for Milisovich.
Somehow I missed the part where B-52s carpet bombed the cities of Serbia? But exaggeratiois always useful for propaganda, eh, n.n?
Mitchell Strand, well said.
Occasional Commenter:
I think Lenin was underestimating the power of later education and experience to change things in a 6-year-old. It’s not easy, though, and at a certain point it becomes more and more difficult to change.
The “Palestinians” have been made into a feral people–a weapon and a recruiting ground–and they are ten kinds of trouble, and that is why none of the surrounding Muslim states–being very well aware of this–want to allow them to “integrate” into their populations.
They would rather either not admit them at all, or keep them bottled up in “refugee camps.”
but then she veered into politics, claiming foolishly that America under George Bush was a sociopathic society.
==
I can introduce you to psychologists who are remarkable examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect when it comes to discussing public life.
In the case of Israel/Hamas, the Israelis must kill at least 30% of the male population in the 15-30 year old age group to prevail.
==
Thanks for the ex cathedra. We’re all enlightened.
GG has made reference to a working paper issued in 2013. Here is a critique of it.
https://www.thetower.org/article/the-palestinian-textbook-fiasco/
(and that indeed this DID happen in places like Samaria and East Jerusalem, which saw the often truly ancient Jewish settlements including the Old City of Jerusalem wiped clean of Jews by the Transjordanian Military and paramilitaries loyal to the genocidal Nazi Allies the Al-Husseini clan).
==
The Hashemites were clients of Britain and the Arab Legion was commanded by a British officer prior to 1956.
==
About 98% of the Jewish settlement in Mandatory Palestine prior to 1948 was in the coastal plain, the Valley of Jezreel and in Jerusalem. Not many Jews in the rest of the country.
The Serbs…
==
Per Necrometrics, the Serb government claimed between 1,200 and 5,000 civilian deaths due to the bombing campaign. Serbia had a population of about 7 million at the time.
bagott Glubb, who had cut his teeth, in the 20s fighting Ikwan raiders into Southern Iraq, the redoubt of the Muntafiq tribes,
he was also known as a historian of some note, subsequently,
is this your card,https://twitter.com/emanumiller/status/1725927613657420005
@Art Deco
Indeed, Glubb Pasha. A fascinating man even if a nasty piece of work who turned in some interesting writings and lived quite the storied life. In any case he was a ruthless man working with savage people.
That said, I do have to say that while my opinion of the Hashemites is generally low, they are much less worse than almost any alternative and they cleared out the PLO in a way that is all but unthinkable for anyone else.
That’s for a couple different reasons, but mostly that the Old and New Yishuvs were largely urban and had been for centuries in keeping with Jewish norms since the Roman occupation, but they had begun making inroads towards agricultural settlements, they started getting hammered by Islamist terrorism through the 1920s, and especially during Amin Al Husseini’s revolt from 1936-9, where if you were living in a farm or even a not as large Kibbutz you were a prime target for rebels to go in and massacre. By the time the revolt ended the British had also begun to strangle legal Jewish immigration in, and the 1946-9 warring did not help.
Admittedly I have found Necrometrics to be lukewarm, and in particular they horribly lowball most Communist figures, such as using the expansion of the Soviet population from the start of Stalin’s rule to the end to justify the idea he wasn’t that bad, when ignoring the fact that they aren’t comparing the same populations due to Soviet annexations from his tenure and the devastation he wrecked there and on foreigners.
But this seems about right. I’d add in some more to factor in those killed or persecuted by paramilitaries, terrorists, or the separatist troops we supported but on the whole the US was far from the biggest of Serbia’s problems and I am no shill for Milosevic.
Hashemites are not Hamashites.
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this is one of his works
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pre-Owned-Soldiers-of-fortune-The-story-of-the-Mamlukes-Hardcover-0880292474-9780880292474-John-Bagot-Glubb/977274080?
interesting his son faris Glubb, was a real lefty supporter of the PFLOAG guerillas in oman, later a reporter during the Lebanese civil war, indulged in this poisonous stew of
antisemitism we have seen today,
Grooming for death, instead of the US Public Schools’ grooming for deviant sex. But both are death cults.